FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

AlexTG356

LS3 wrote: »

Just called and got through to a girl that says they havent finalised details yet but are hoping to have details by end of week early next week at the latest. I asked about invigilators and she said it wont be like that and will be a software we download and basically watches your tabs etc. They still dont sound like they really know whats going on.

Does that mean it's a typed exam?

Lallers96

LS3 wrote: »

Just called and got through to a girl that says they havent finalised details yet but are hoping to have details by end of week early next week at the latest. I asked about invigilators and she said it wont be like that and will be a software we download and basically watches your tabs etc. They still dont sound like they really know whats going on.

What the f#ck? That's leaving it extremely easy to cheat then. Early this week is what they said, now it's early next week. We are 3 weeks out!!

rightytighty

amusicalfrog wrote: »

Not doing FE1s but know a few here applied for judicial assistant - anybody heard back from them yet? I think it's pretty crazy and poor form how long they're taking to get back to us

Yep I also applied, still haven’t heard anything. Agree it’s crazy, come Friday we interviewed two weeks ago! I expected a quick turnaround too as it was competency based so presumably candidates were given a numerical score? Don’t understand the hold up.

Hiya1234

Lallers96 wrote: »

What the f#ck? That's leaving it extremely easy to cheat then. Early this week is what they said, now it's early next week. We are 3 weeks out!!

From having to type exams on erasmus, you can't cheat as they are aware of what you have open. So they can see what you are doing on your laptop. More effective than having someone watch you on zoom.

Although people could have notes infront of them hahahah nvm

Dliodoir2021

Company law - disqualification

Has it ever appeared? Don't think I've seen it in the papers.

Is it okay to write "co" and "drr" or would this be a big NO no for the exam?

CMUL

I got the same email!!! I had paid and received confirmation of order. She replied to say it was an error. Add it to a long list of incompetency from the Law Society. Its beyond frustrating at this stage.

CMUL

Hiya1234 wrote: »

I got the same email!! From a woman named Fiona??

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just received an email telling me I have not completed my FE1 application!

I’m not a first time candidate, I applied in September and paid then too! I received an email confirmation of my order from the LS and presumed that was that?!

Am I missing something??? Stressed now!!

I got the same email!!! I had paid and received confirmation of order. She replied to say it was an error. Add it to a long list of incompetency from the Law Society. Its beyond frustrating at this stage.

Hiya1234

CMUL wrote: »

I got the same email!!! I had paid and received confirmation of order. She replied to say it was an error. Add it to a long list of incompetency from the Law Society. Its beyond frustrating at this stage.

She hasnt replied to me... but I have the confirmation order and it was taken from my bank so I am not worried

Hiya1234

Hiya1234 wrote: »

She hasnt replied to me... but I have the confirmation order and it was taken from my bank so I am not worried

Yes from Fiona!
The LS stressing us out unnecessarily yet again... *eyeroll*

shaunadennyham

Sunflowers8 wrote: »

How do you know? Just wondering if you’ve been talking to the LS

Paula sheedy from LS confirmed to me that it’s not going to be open book.

bozzer198

They also said that it definitely wouldn't be online...............just saying

WesternC123

They most likely won't say it's open book but if it's not invigilated I don't see how they can monitor whether it is or not

CMUL

LS3 wrote: »

Just called and got through to a girl that says they havent finalised details yet but are hoping to have details by end of week early next week at the latest. I asked about invigilators and she said it wont be like that and will be a software we download and basically watches your tabs etc. They still dont sound like they really know whats going on.

Sounds like its going to be like Kings Inns. If you go into their timetable for this year its gives a lot of info for online exams. Maybe they will use similar

LeagleEagle747

CMUL wrote: »

Sounds like its going to be like Kings Inns. If you go into their timetable for this year its gives a lot of info for online exams. Maybe they will use similar

Reading through the website about the Kings Inn's exams being online it sort of sounds like they're also following the Zoom method.

Would be nice if there was some clarity about how these exams are going to be conducted, even just to make our lives a little bit less stressful in already stressful times. I get this is unprecedented, but the universities, schools, and other educational institutions have managed to sort this out without having their students stressing less than three weeks before the commencement of the examination period.

awsah

LeagleEagle747 wrote: »

Reading through the website about the Kings Inn's exams being online it sort of sounds like they're also following the Zoom method.

Would be nice if there was some clarity about how these exams are going to be conducted, even just to make our lives a little bit less stressful in already stressful times. I get this is unprecedented, but the universities, schools, and other educational institutions have managed to sort this out without having their students stressing less than three weeks before the commencement of the examination period.

you would think if it was the same way they could have released that information already, I would imagine it may not be the same as they were not able to hold they only a couple of weeks ago so they may have to make small changes. They talk on Kings Inn about needing webcams and a minimum wifi speed but they are not giving people enough time to sort these things out, I know web cams were flying off the shelves at the start of the pandemic! Nobody has signed up for online exams so the very least they can do right now is tell us what will be required so that we have ample time to arrange.

LeagleEagle747

awsah wrote: »

you would think if it was the same way they could have released that information already, I would imagine it may not be the same as they were not able to hold they only a couple of weeks ago so they may have to make small changes. They talk on Kings Inn about needing webcams and a minimum wifi speed but they are not giving people enough time to sort these things out, I know web cams were flying off the shelves at the start of the pandemic! Nobody has signed up for online exams so the very least they can do right now is tell us what will be required so that we have ample time to arrange.

Hear! Hear!
Beyond frustrating in all honesty. My wifi should be fast enough but can sometimes be quite temperamental and cuts out so hoping on the day it takes pity on me. I also query why people who have law degrees are still forced to go through the entrance exams both for the bar and Blackhall Place considering we all have to do the core modules that are examined in both schools... It is beyond frustrating at the constant radio silence

BugsySiegel

LeagleEagle747 wrote: »

Hear! Hear!
Beyond frustrating in all honesty. My wifi should be fast enough but can sometimes be quite temperamental and cuts out so hoping on the day it takes pity on me. I also query why people who have law degrees are still forced to go through the entrance exams both for the bar and Blackhall Place considering we all have to do the core modules that are examined in both schools... It is beyond frustrating at the constant radio silence

People seem to be questioning why the FE1s exist at all a lot on this thread recently. I know its a bit off topic but just curious as to whether Im missing something as I always assumed the exams were in place chiefly to generate revenue for the LS. Surely it would be a massive loss of income for the LS if they were scraped.

Aoibhin511

BugsySiegel wrote: »

People seem to be questioning why the FE1s exist at all a lot on this thread recently. I know its a bit off topic but just curious as to whether Im missing something as I always assumed the exams were in place chiefly to generate revenue for the LS. Surely it would be a massive loss of income for the LS if they were scraped.

Honestly though if money is what they're after why don't they just raise the membership fee for qualified solicitors? Like why are they using students/people working part-time or not at all as their little cash cows?

Ianmc97

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

Honestly though if money is what they're after why don't they just raise the membership fee for qualified solicitors? Like why are they using students/people working part-time or not at all as their little cash cows?

It has a second effect of bottlenecking entry into the profession which they also want. demand and supply etc. they can keep a thumb on the scale to a certain degree.

Law20213

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

Honestly though if money is what they're after why don't they just raise the membership fee for qualified solicitors? Like why are they using students/people working part-time or not at all as their little cash cows?

Don’t forget the price of the prep schools/courses that benefit dearly from reteaching us the same subjects we’ve already studied and passed in college. It’s really unjust system.

starfishxxo

kayleee123 wrote: »

Hi Guys, might be a stupid question but I was wondering if future employers could see attempts made / failed for FE1 exams? I just added constitutional to my exams for this sitting - I'm not overly sure of my chances but said i'll give it a go anyway and see how I get on with a month solid work on it. My other subjects should be fine (fingers crossed) but i'll drop constitutional again if it will show up that I failed as i'm nowhere near as prepared for it as the others but would good to get it out of the way at the same time so no harm giving it a go? Thanks

I would also be interested if anyone has knowledge/experience of this.

Upon completing FE1s does your transcript indicate all attempts made, or just confirm your having passed and marks achieved per subject?

In my experience employers havent been concerned with attempts, just that you have completed them or when you intend to complete

Dliodoir2021

starfishxxo wrote: »

I would also be interested if anyone has knowledge/experience of this.

Upon completing FE1s does your transcript indicate all attempts made, or just confirm your having passed and marks achieved per subject?

In my experience employers havent been concerned with attempts, just that you have completed them or when you intend to complete

I think you show your results letters. Some of mine say 0% instead of absent which makes it look like I sat in to have a look at the paper when in reality I was at a family funeral!

IgoPAP

I accidentally applied to one exam that I had no intention of sitting and I cancelled it a month before the sitting and got a refund - you're telling me on my results letter it'll say 0% implying I failed it???!!!

Dliodoir2021

IgoPAP wrote: »

I accidentally applied to one exam that I had no intention of sitting and I cancelled it a month before the sitting and got a refund - you're telling me on my results letter it'll say 0% implying I failed it???!!!

No, because another one said "absent" --- same circumstances! Crazy!

IgoPAP

Dliodoir2021 wrote: »

No, because another one said "absent" --- same circumstances! Crazy!

"Absent" sounds like I wasn't bothered to sit the exams so that's not good either. I hope it doesn't say that on my transcript

Aoibhin511

IgoPAP wrote: »

"Absent" sounds like I wasn't bothered to sit the exams so that's not good either. I hope it doesn't say that on my transcript

I got put down as absent for Tort in March even though it didn't happen

Jeremiah25

dobby896 wrote: »

Hey all, an important and very recent SC case of natural justice/fair procedures below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/supreme-court/supreme-court-unconstitutional-law-governs-procedure-under-which-citizenship-can-be-revoked-1.4380723

Likely something like this could feature on the exam given that it's so recent and papers were presumably set time ago?

CoconutHeadMia

Is it possible that the law society are going to rely on students not using their own books and notes during the exams if they’re not going to invigilate? Or how did the kings inn work

law_struggles

For Tort, does anybody know how Vicarious Liability works in basic terms in relation to the different tests? Am I right in saying there is a course/scope test and a close connection test? thanks!

dobby896

Jeremiah25 wrote: »

Likely something like this could feature on the exam given that it's so recent and papers were presumably set time ago?

Well not relating to that case specifically but a question around natural justice/fair procedures could appear in any event, so just looks good to be able to reference a recent case

phildub

law_struggles wrote: »

For Tort, does anybody know how Vicarious Liability works in basic terms in relation to the different tests? Am I right in saying there is a course/scope test and a close connection test? thanks!

copying and pasting stuff from my manual!
The existence of control by the Defendant over the wrongdoer is the most frequent justification for imposing vicarious liability. Wherever one party actually or potentially exercises control over the activities of the wrongdoer, it is possible that the controller will be deemed legally responsible for injury via vicarious liability. In this way the categories of relationships within which vicarious liability may be imposed are not fixed and may exist outside the employment context. This was made clear by the SC in Moynihan v Moynihan (1975)

Vicarious liability is commonly imposed on employers for wrongs committed by their employees in the course or scope of their employment. There are a number of reasons why the Courts favour vicarious liability in the employment context, such as the fact that the employer benefits from the acts of the employee and therefore should be responsible for harm arising from those acts, the employer can take protective measures to prevent employees causing injury/damage and employers can distribute their loss and are a better mark for damages. There are two distinct issues in this area of vicarious liability.
1. Does a necessary relationship of employer/employee exist? 2. Did wrongdoing by the employee occur within the course/scope of that relationship

shaunadennyham

CoconutHeadMia wrote: »

Is it possible that the law society are going to rely on students not using their own books and notes during the exams if they’re not going to invigilate? Or how did the kings inn work

No I think they’ll have it invigilated like they did with the august sitting. Kings inns was closed book and invigilated like the august fe1s as well

Hazel774

shaunadennyham wrote: »

No I think they’ll have it invigilated like they did with the august sitting. Kings inns was closed book and invigilated like the august fe1s as well

I wish they would just tell us already! It's so frustrating not knowing with the exams starting in less than three weeks
Even worse that they're giving random bits of information to the people who manage to get through to them on the phone rather than just updating all candidates with the same information

FE1new

Hi All, I am really struggling with Criminal law does anyone have any tips on what can be left out or what should absolutely be covered? I am drowning now and panicking that the exams are so close. Really appreciate any guidance at all.

fe1time

Hi everyone, first time FE 1 sitter here and this whole online malarkey has got me a bit stressed! Any ideas on how best to prep for Contract and what to know inside out?

Lawlaw12

FE1new wrote: »

Hi All, I am really struggling with Criminal law does anyone have any tips on what can be left out or what should absolutely be covered? I am drowning now and panicking that the exams are so close. Really appreciate any guidance at all.

Essential Topics:
Sexual Offences,
Homicide,
Actus Reus/Mens Rea,
Non-Fatal Offences against the Person,
Offences against Property,
Defences.

After that: Bail/Arrest/Detention, Presumption of Innocence, Minor v. Non-minor offences, Jurisdiction of the Courts etc...

For criminal there is a lot of mixing of topics so it is actually quite difficult to leave out whole topics, also there can be questions with 4 parts (a-d), so if you have left out the topic for one of those parts you're cutting down the marks you can get for that question. But because topics are mixed, it can actually mean that you end up writing very little about any given topic e.g. if it is a 4 part question you'll only be writing around a page for each part and this can include an introduction and advice to your client etc. so you can get away with only knowing the main cases.
Also, the examiner is a generous marker, so he will give you marks where he can!
If you can, try to learn a few main cases for every topic, and then for those important topics have a bit more detail

FE1new

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

Essential Topics:
Sexual Offences,
Homicide,
Actus Reus/Mens Rea,
Non-Fatal Offences against the Person,
Offences against Property,
Defences.

After that: Bail/Arrest/Detention, Presumption of Innocence, Minor v. Non-minor offences, Jurisdiction of the Courts etc...

For criminal there is a lot of mixing of topics so it is actually quite difficult to leave out whole topics, also there can be questions with 4 parts (a-d), so if you have left out the topic for one of those parts you're cutting down the marks you can get for that question. But because topics are mixed, it can actually mean that you end up writing very little about any given topic e.g. if it is a 4 part question you'll only be writing around a page for each part and this can include an introduction and advice to your client etc. so you can get away with only knowing the main cases.
Also, the examiner is a generous marker, so he will give you marks where he can!
If you can, try to learn a few main cases for every topic, and then for those important topics have a bit more detail

Thank you so much. It seems neverending

awsah

FE1new wrote: »

Hi All, I am really struggling with Criminal law does anyone have any tips on what can be left out or what should absolutely be covered? I am drowning now and panicking that the exams are so close. Really appreciate any guidance at all.

try not to get too stressed out, if its your only exam you have plenty of time, just read read read and practice exam questions. If you look at the exam questions you can see that some may cover 5 topics, you absolutely must cover ch on murder and manslaughter and sexual assault, this should get two questions out of the way, I would cover defenses as they can tie in as part of any question, NFOATP seems long and daunting but when you read enough times it should be ok.

key thing in problem questions is to identify the issues, if tom hits mary over the head and kills her don't talk about section 2 assault, you would be discussing the mens rea for murder/assault manslaughter.
don't say things like "duress is not a defense" if it is not in the question. you just want to get in and get out, 1. "this is the issues that arise, 2. this is the statute/case law,3. this is how the case law/statute applies to the question and 4.this is the conclusion.
The issues and the conclusion are the easiest marks, couple of sentences: the issues are a, b, c and in conclusion I would advise tom that he is liable to be charged with the murder of mary which could be lowered to assault manslaughter if it is shown he did not intend to kill or seriously harm her. (if you know the sentence you can put it here but like people have said it is not technically necessary).

I have not taken criminal yet so I really hope that helps and it wasn't a lot of gibberish.

FE1new

awsah wrote: »

try not to get too stressed out, if its your only exam you have plenty of time, just read read read and practice exam questions. If you look at the exam questions you can see that some may cover 5 topics, you absolutely must cover ch on murder and manslaughter and sexual assault, this should get two questions out of the way, I would cover defenses as they can tie in as part of any question, NFOATP seems long and daunting but when you read enough times it should be ok.

key thing in problem questions is to identify the issues, if tom hits mary over the head and kills her don't talk about section 2 assault, you would be discussing the mens rea for murder/assault manslaughter.
don't say things like "duress is not a defense" if it is not in the question. you just want to get in and get out, 1. "this is the issues that arise, 2. this is the statute/case law,3. this is how the case law/statute applies to the question and 4.this is the conclusion.
The issues and the conclusion are the easiest marks, couple of sentences: the issues are a, b, c and in conclusion I would advise tom that he is liable to be charged with the murder of mary which could be lowered to assault manslaughter if it is shown he did not intend to kill or seriously harm her. (if you know the sentence you can put it here but like people have said it is not technically necessary).

I have not taken criminal yet so I really hope that helps and it wasn't a lot of gibberish.

Not gibberish at all. Thank you so much!

Fe119

I was under the impression that your final FE-1 results letter only detailed the exams you have passed?

awsah

FE1new wrote: »

Not gibberish at all. Thank you so much!

do you have exam questions with examiner reports? if you spend an hour or two just going through problem questions and writing out what you think the issues are and then checking the examiners report and if you are wrong the examiners report should help explain it.

I would have a look at complicity also as that could come up as part of a problem question!

nicolesd

anyone else waiting on results from a recheck?

FE1new

awsah wrote: »

do you have exam questions with examiner reports? if you spend an hour or two just going through problem questions and writing out what you think the issues are and then checking the examiners report and if you are wrong the examiners report should help explain it.

I would have a look at complicity also as that could come up as part of a problem question!

Yes I have the reports thank god. There is just so much in the questions. Really appreciate all the advice. Thank you

legallyginger

Only just seen I got an email saying my application was incomplete after panicking all week that I never recieved an email RE online exams !! Did anybody else hear back to hear if it was an error or not so worried and of course the phone is ringing out...

kayleee123

Does anyone have the spring 2020 constitutional paper by any chance?

phildub

I have gone through the last few days of this thread looking for the posts that the law society put up about the November exams and they seem to have been deleted,

Law society,
if you are reading this it is now officially "end of next week" which means the "start of next week"is over and I am requesting that you update all FE1 registered candidates by email regarding whatever new information you can tell us regarding these exams.

In particular we need to know any software or hardware that may have to be arranged in advance in order to give us ample time to arrange for same. Could you also outline what the consequences are for people who have paid their fees but are unable to, for example, locate a web cam, download the zoom application, source a working microphone due to the limited amount of time that was afforded to us to source these items?

I think I speak collectively for all of us when I say that all Fe1 students would be very grateful if you could update us with any new information you might have before 6pm tomorrow evening, but sooner would be preferable.

All of us are professionals, we have either obtained a degree or we have worked in the legal industry for a number of years to reach this point. By sitting the FE1s we are demonstrating our commitment to being a member of the law society of ireland for decades to come. All we are asking is for some professional courtesy, the same of which has been afforded to our colleagues in Kings Inn, participants of the PPC courses and also including trainee accountants and leaving certificate students.

LawLearnin

Hey guys, feels a bit late in the day to be asking this with the exams (presumably!) around the corner, but would any of you mind sharing some tips on how you put your notes together?

I've passed four of the FE1s at this stage, but am having a terrible time preparing for the Criminal exam (am going to sit Equity too but I think I've a good grasp on what it's about). I can't figure out how to arrange the info for Criminal and it seems there's no end of cases, whereas some of the other subjects seemed to have a smaller core set of cases to draw on. Do you guys work from undergrad lecture notes, legislation, the syllabus texts or college cram notes etc to hone down the key info? And do you just then pick a couple of whatever cases seem relevant for each of the different elements you're focusing on for the exams?

Jeremiah25

LawLearnin wrote: »

Hey guys, feels a bit late in the day to be asking this with the exams (presumably!) around the corner, but would any of you mind sharing some tips on how you put your notes together?

I've passed four of the FE1s at this stage, but am having a terrible time preparing for the Criminal exam (am going to sit Equity too but I think I've a good grasp on what it's about). I can't figure out how to arrange the info for Criminal and it seems there's no end of cases, whereas some of the other subjects seemed to have a smaller core set of cases to draw on. Do you guys work from undergrad lecture notes, legislation, the syllabus texts or college cram notes etc to hone down the key info? And do you just then pick a couple of whatever cases seem relevant for each of the different elements you're focusing on for the exams?

Mainly work off the manuals. I find past papers very useful also if you can get your hands on those, some of the questions are asked in a very repitive manner year on year.

Lovestolisten

I am getting really fed up with the whole thing, I have been emailing since August with the following issues

1- I am an access student so I have 4 sittings prepaid.
The online payment system is 'stuck' so I cannot fully process my application. 30 emails back and forth trying to explain that the system is frozen at 95% application complete and will not process.

2- My internet is 'unreliable', so I need to arrange somewhere to go to do the exam but I would like some confirmation on what systems we need to do the exam online, if i go to another location, what do I need to bring? Camera ? Speaker ? what sort of room can I use , how long do I need the room for ?

3 - the times of the exam ? If I get a room somewhere with internet what time do I need to go at? I am in a rural area so going somewhere with internet is a day trip.

I think it's pretty outrageous and an absolute example of how out of touch the Law Society is with real people.

There are students who don't have technology , internet connection, quiet homes or access to locations to sit online exams.

It shows how backward the Law Society has become. Back to the days where only those with substance could access the profession.
I feel strongly for those who are battling marginalisation to educate, empower and build careers and better futures for themselves , now they have to deal with this sort of snobbery.

The solution is to INFORM, keep the students in the loop, ask us our opinions, reach out and INCLUDE

lawgrad15

LawLearnin wrote: »

Hey guys, feels a bit late in the day to be asking this with the exams (presumably!) around the corner, but would any of you mind sharing some tips on how you put your notes together?

I've passed four of the FE1s at this stage, but am having a terrible time preparing for the Criminal exam (am going to sit Equity too but I think I've a good grasp on what it's about). I can't figure out how to arrange the info for Criminal and it seems there's no end of cases, whereas some of the other subjects seemed to have a smaller core set of cases to draw on. Do you guys work from undergrad lecture notes, legislation, the syllabus texts or college cram notes etc to hone down the key info? And do you just then pick a couple of whatever cases seem relevant for each of the different elements you're focusing on for the exams?

I felt the same in March and it actually only came to me quite close to the exams.

For me, I did I think 3 essays in the exam. My opinion is that the essays tend to repeat themselves and there are only a limited amount of topics. So I would get a decent exam grid and look at the past questions. Rather than wasting time learning essays, go through the exam reports and note the main points/arguments you could make for each.

After that, for the problem questions, I would sit down and try and do them by topic e.g. homicide, sexual offences etc. However, I do know there is a huge amount of overlap. Make sure to print a copy of the examiner's reports as they are a huge asset to studying for criminal. They are really detailed.

In terms of the exam, make sure you can spot the issues in a problem question. Sometimes there will be quite a few issues in the question. By doing preparation questions, you will begin to spot the issues easily after a while.

Another really important point is re legislation. Make sure you know the main legislative provisions. Know also the actus reus and mens rea also.

In terms of case law, the amount I had varied on the topic. I hadn't a huge amount learned for topics like public offences but had way more for the likes of murder, manslaughter etc.

Also it's really worth knowing the defences really really well. They can be quite tricky so it's worth reading over those chapters a few times.

In conclusion, I think the best thing to do at this point is lots of exam questions. By doing similar questions, it will become easier for you to identify the issues and cases will become more familiar also. His reports are by far the most detailed out of all the examiners so do have a look at them while doing the questions.

Good luck with it. I thought mine was like a dogs dinner and got 70 in it. Really disliked criminal in uni. Felt it clicked with me 4 days before the exam so still lots of time left