FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

Hazel774

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea of typed exams has me in an absolute panic now! I’ve never sat a typed exam and believe it’s so much easier to form answers when writing. This also might not be the case but I believe exam *bluff* will come across worse in a typed answer because it looks neater and you can’t tell the students panic to get everything written - that might be my panic speaking but anyway!

I also work ft and cannot take next Thursday off! With less than a week notice! I’m about to burst into tears the law society just DO NOT CARE about us.

Also I didn’t even receive the email! So am reading it all on boards at 10 o clock at night because a supposed professional body cannot compose a simple mailing list! Why am I surprised... they can’t even answer a simple email!!

This is beyond frustrating and completely unfair. They refused to give us any information for so long and all we could do was focus our study on the idea that the exam would be the same format as previous online FE1s and less than 3 weeks out they spring this on us!!!!

Disheartened doesn’t begin to cover it...

I completely relate to this!!
Really shocked that they've changed it to typed with barely 2.5 weeks notice, even by the standards of the law society that is extremely poor form.
They've seriously messed us about since March, but this takes the cake as the worst thing they've done yet imo. I genuinely cannot believe the stress they put us through and the worst part is knowing that nothing will be done about it, I don't even know if it's worth trying to contact them at this stage because they just don't care.
This is my last exam so I'll have to try and find a way to make it work, but if it wasn't my last I would just give up at this point, the LS make these exams 1000x more difficult than they have to be

I also don't understand how so many of us didn't get the email, a child could set up a mailing list and hit send to all, it is just not a difficult thing to do! This is meant to be a professional body, their behaviour is actually outrageous. Can't believe I'm finding this out at at 10pm because I happened to check boards, how much notice were they planning on giving those of us who didn't get the email?

Fe1 2020

Hi guys,

Would anyone have a grid for company they wouldn't mind sharing?

Sorry I can't offer anything in return, I just have someone's copy of older manuals. But feel free to ask for it if it's useful.

Thanks in advance.

Law20213

Hazel774 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, the worst part is there's genuinely nothing we can do about it and our complaints fall on deaf ears (or no ears at all, since they refuse to answer their phones!)

I'm not entirely sure if the LSRA have authority over the Law Society but they have done a few consultations/reports on the legal profession recently. They did a report earlier this year on the admission policies of the legal professions, called 'Pathways to the Professions' and it had strong criticisms of the FE1's from some of the big firms and the Law Departments of UCD, UL and DCU.

"The FE-1 system generated strong views from the law firms who made submissions, as well as the university law schools, the Higher Education Authority and Ibec. The criticism of the FE-1 system focused on several aspects, including duplication, delay and significant direct and indirect costs... In its consultation invitation, the LSRA did not invite the Law Society to comment directly on the FE-1 system which it operates. However, the Authority is aware of the Law Society’s position in this regard, based on its extensive engagement in relation to its ongoing work under section 34 of the Act."

"Several respondents proposed the abolition of entrance exams for admission to professional training for law graduates (the FE-1 for solicitors and the King’s Inns Entrance Exam for barristers)."

LSRA is made up of 11 ex employees of the society! Not surprising really very Irish! shouldn’t they be entirely separate or conflicts of interests

Samuma

Before I replied saying I was raging I said i'd give a typed exam a go and tried to type up an answer for constitutional interpretation, a topic I would consider I would be well able to write a good essay on.

I couldn't do it. I need a piece of paper to write down plans and then follow it, but go back to it mid paragraph if a new idea comes into my head.
Typing takes so much extra; concentrating on where letters are on the keyboard has me totally distracted that I can't recall any of the information to form a sentence.

I wasn't panicking earlier because I got myself used to the idea of sitting in front of the laptop but being able to write my answers. Like they did for the August sitting.

Now I am very stressed and it's 2.5 weeks out. Shame on them. Not everyone has proper laptops or even wifi. And no one has money to be throwing away on these exams when they don't show us the same level of respect. It shows them in very poor light really that they couldn't even organise this properly. They should have made the decision in August and stuck with it.
Did they think the pandemic was going to disappear overnight? Relying on Levels was totally ridiculous.

Lallers96

FE1new wrote: »

I just can't get my head around mortgages.

Also found that topic oddly complicated.

FE1new

Lallers96 wrote: »

Also found that topic oddly complicated.

I'll try it mostly because its covered in the Land and Conveyancing Act 2009 which we can bring in but it's like double Dutch to me.

123456789j

Hi all,

Extremely pissed and disappointed with tonight’s update. Has anyone experience with doing exams of this scale online ? Do you notice the vigilators presence? Last thing I want is to be trying to think of a case name and be conscious of somebody watching me throughout.

123456789j

Would anyone have any recent equity or eu material perhaps? Running out of time to be writing notes still so anything that may help at all would be great. I can swap Tort and criminal !

IgoPAP

Am I the only one that's chuffed with the online format? I'm a fast typer and always struggle to get everything on the page - now time constraints are not an issue. I couldn't have hoped for better luck here.

keelfe1s

Hi guys could someone please tell me what came up last equity sitting??

Lallers96

IgoPAP wrote: »

Am I the only one that's chuffed with the online format? I'm a fast typer and always struggle to get everything on the page - now time constraints are not an issue. I couldn't have hoped for better luck here.

I'm the same. I'm very, very fortunate that I am an extremely fast typer and can type without looking at the screen, I type all the time at work so I get practice all the time. I just purchased a brand new laptop just for this inevitability. I have fibre broadband that I pay for myself that is super fast. And I live in a quiet house where I can have a room to myself with no disturbances. However I know that I am part of a very lucky minority. A lot of people will not have the resources, and even those who do may struggle with the new format.

I would still like to be able to print off the paper for scribbles and rough work sheets also.

Aoibhin511

IgoPAP wrote: »

Am I the only one that's chuffed with the online format? I'm a fast typer and always struggle to get everything on the page - now time constraints are not an issue. I couldn't have hoped for better luck here.

I surprisingly don't have feelings on way or the other tbh.
I took all my notes throughout college with pen and paper, but still struggle with neatness in exam situation (though as someone said above I think that sometimes works to my advantage because it looks like I really am trying to get everything down very quickly and panickedly, so they might pity me) I just did a typing speed test and got 30wpm so I have to weeks to improve that.
On a whole though I'm just glad we have some sort of answer, there'll be no night before cancellation like in March and no will they won't they uncertainty like in August. It's definitely going ahead now, and I just can't wait for it to be over.

JayFE1

FE1new wrote: »

Hi all

For Property is the following enough for the exams do you think?

Succession
Adverse Possession
Co ownership
Easements
Landlord Tenant
Family Property

I don't think I can add anything else at this stage

Succession is two guaranteed questions so if you’ve done extrinsic evidence, formal requirements, the spouse / children and intestacy then that’s two down. You’ve probably done enough to cover yourself for the remaining questions but I suppose the one that sticks out is finding? Very straightforward, easy to identify and frequently examined. There’s also a question on the influence of equity on land law. You could pick say the doctrine of notice or the Statute of Uses. IMO, a cracking little question. It’s so broad, you could really rack up some good marks! Mortgages is another one - it’s actually not that bad once you get into it. We’ll all probably have one so interesting to know what a bank legally can and can not do.

shaunadennyham

IgoPAP wrote: »

I was just kidding! But it isn't so much that the exams will be marked harder as the fact that you're going to get higher quality answers I think with typed exams.

Please stop why would you get higher quality answers just because they’re typed

shaunadennyham

IgoPAP wrote: »

Am I the only one that's chuffed with the online format? I'm a fast typer and always struggle to get everything on the page - now time constraints are not an issue. I couldn't have hoped for better luck here.

Congratulations

FE1new

keelfe1s wrote: »

Hi guys could someone please tell me what came up last equity sitting??

Pm me and I can send you the paper

Samuma

Lallers96 wrote: »

I'm the same. I'm very, very fortunate that I am an extremely fast typer and can type without looking at the screen, I type all the time at work so I get practice all the time. I just purchased a brand new laptop just for this inevitability. I have fibre broadband that I pay for myself that is super fast. And I live in a quiet house where I can have a room to myself with no disturbances. However I know that I am part of a very lucky minority. A lot of people will not have the resources, and even those who do may struggle with the new format.

I would still like to be able to print off the paper for scribbles and rough work sheets also.

I am a very fast typer also and like everyone these days, email is the main mode of communication. Replying to an email versus typing out 5 separate exam answers for 3 hours are very different beasts.

Has anyone here ever had to type up an answer for an exam in their lives?
Primary school, Secondary, Junior and Leaving Cert, Undergraduate, Master's etc...they have all been written exams. It's what we are accustomed to.

This is a total format change and 2 weeks out. It's incredibly unfair.

Hazel774

JayFE1 wrote: »

Succession is two guaranteed questions so if you’ve done extrinsic evidence, formal requirements, the spouse / children and intestacy then that’s two down. You’ve probably done enough to cover yourself for the remaining questions but I suppose the one that sticks out is finding? Very straightforward, easy to identify and frequently examined. There’s also a question on the influence of equity on land law. You could pick say the doctrine of notice or the Statute of Uses. IMO, a cracking little question. It’s so broad, you could really rack up some good marks! Mortgages is another one - it’s actually not that bad once you get into it. We’ll all probably have one so interesting to know what a bank legally can and can not do.

Yes, finding is a good one to add in, and just add to what's said here, if you look at the examiners reports for the finding question they copy and paste the exact same paragraph into the reports every single time finding comes up and its actually a pretty detailed answer plan! Lists all the cases you'll need... so I would definitely look through the reports on finding and you'll put together a sample answer quite quickly.
I believe adverse possession is on practically every paper too, so between succession and adverse possession you should have 3 questions covered already!

BugsySiegel

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

Honestly me neither but its my worst-case scenario topic, I'm pretty confident I'll have 5/6 Qs in the others

Was having the same problem until I had a look at sample answers. Helped a lot. Seems like theres a lot in the Griffith College manual that can be left out for that topic.

neon123

What do people think the mock exam is about? Will it essentially be an opportunity to login to get familiar with the format and will it be optional? I’m working full time so definitely don’t have time to be hanging around for three hours!

Samuma

With the Law Society it seems that anything is possible.

I think I'll have to look for a refund for maybe 2 of my 4 exams. I just wont be able to get the hang of typing by then. I am still putting handwritten notes together.
I also don't have money to be wasting on the off chance that I'll be able to.

Lawlaw12

neon123 wrote: »

What do people think the mock exam is about? Will it essentially be an opportunity to login to get familiar with the format and will it be optional? I’m working full time so definitely don’t have time to be hanging around for three hours!

I'm very curious about this.. it would hardly be an actual exam where they give us an exam question to answer? I don't know why they would call it a 'mock exam', surely it's just testing that the system works properly

BugsySiegel

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

I'm very curious about this.. it would hardly be an actual exam where they give us an exam question to answer? I don't know why they would call it a 'mock exam', surely it's just testing that the system works properly

They probably should have picked different wording. Its not going to be an exam of any sort. Itl be an opportunity to make sure you can use the software and everything works on your end [microphone, webcam etc].

Hazel774

I haven't had the chance to look through the past papers for constitutional in too much detail yet, but looking at the March 2020 paper there didn't seem to be too much on SOP in that paper.
There was a question on non-justiciability which obviously ties in with SOP, but do people think it's likely we would get an essay question on SOP this year?

Like I said I haven't really looked through the past papers much, so maybe I'm wrong in thinking that might be due a run

sarahlawless

Hazel774 wrote: »

I haven't had the chance to look through the past papers for constitutional in too much detail yet, but looking at the March 2020 paper there didn't seem to be too much on SOP in that paper.
There was a question on non-justiciability which obviously ties in with SOP, but do people think it's likely we would get an essay question on SOP this year?

Like I said I haven't really looked through the past papers much, so maybe I'm wrong in thinking that might be due a run

IMO the last paper was pretty SOP focused (3/8) but you never know with Constitutional!

awsah

IgoPAP wrote: »

Am I the only one that's chuffed with the online format? I'm a fast typer and always struggle to get everything on the page - now time constraints are not an issue. I couldn't have hoped for better luck here.

Ya im the same,my hands have been getting craps because I'm not used to writing this much and I can type pretty fast without looking at the screen. I do feel like my prayers have been answered but I feel sorry for the people who are not in the same boat, nobody signed up for a typed exam and noone has been preparing for such. I need to be able to scribble things down if they come into my head in the middle of another question and highlight and mark the exam paper so im crossing fingers that that is catered for!

Meg!

Did everybody receive their email because I didnt.

Supermax1988

Meg! wrote: »

Did everybody receive their email because I didnt.

I didn’t either.

lsheehaneire

No, me either

StabiloLaw

Hazel774 wrote: »

I didn't get it either

I didn't either! What are they at??

Olaboo1227

Does anyone have an email to contact them at.

Do you reckon if you wanted a refund on one or two because the workload is too much now with them being online and the uncertainty you could get one. I don’t think I can handle 4 anymore

JudeLawX

Apparently if these follow the same format as the Bar exams the system has no Word functions, ie - autocorrect, caps, formatting. Even email has these simple functions nowadays. Some people may manage fine with that but I know myself if I'm anyway panicked I will not be hitting the right keys, I don't manage to do that properly at the best of times and Word's autocorrect function was a godsent in college when frantically taking notes in lectures etc.

I am really hoping they consider changing their minds and allow candidates handwrite answers, but at the very least we should be allowed a hard copy of the paper in front of us. We have not been given enough notice to adapt as it is and I can see from this thread that for many of us this would be a huge help. Has anyone had contact with the Law Society on this?

WesternC123

I just got through to the number they have listed as the helpline from the latest update. I explained that a lot of us didn't get the email. I also asked whether we'd have the option of writing and she said we can submit any reasons why we aren't able to type the exam and the board will review it. She also said if we have any medical certs to show why we cant type to submit them but as I explained, for many of us there isn't a medical issue but rather we can't type fast enough.. she said she's had a few concerns and will inform the head of examinations. I think it would be useful if anyone who isn't happy with the exams being types could call that helpline and express their concerns because we might get something done about it if there's enough of us.

lawgirl23

WesternC123 wrote: »

I just got through to the number they have listed as the helpline from the latest update. I explained that a lot of us didn't get the email. I also asked whether we'd have the option of writing and she said we can submit any reasons why we aren't able to type the exam and the board will review it. She also said if we have any medical certs to show why we cant type to submit them but as I explained, for many of us there isn't a medical issue but rather we can't type fast enough.. she said she's had a few concerns and will inform the head of examinations. I think it would be useful if anyone who isn't happy with the exams being types could call that helpline and express their concerns because we might get something done about it if there's enough of us.

Did she say anything about why some of us haven’t gotten the email?? They also haven’t updated the page on the Law Society website either I see...

WesternC123

No she didn't say even when I pointed out that this happens all the time. She also said that I mightn't get the email until early next week.. not quite sure why

lawgirl23

WesternC123 wrote: »

No she didn't say even when I pointed out that this happens all the time. She also said that I mightn't get the email until early next week.. not quite sure why

Just rang and spoke to her. She said to email the FE1 Section email to say I didn’t get the email and to ask them to send it across.

I asked if there was any updates on timings for the mock on the 22nd and she said she doesn’t have that information. She has asked for clarification on that. She said to also include that in the email to the FE1 Section.

SKLaw

lawgirl23 wrote: »

Just rang and spoke to her. She said to email the FE1 Section email to say I didn’t get the email and to ask them to send it across.

I asked if there was any updates on timings for the mock on the 22nd and she said she doesn’t have that information. She has asked for clarification on that. She said to also include that in the email to the FE1 Section.

I've emailed the FE1 Section so hopefully I'll get that email sent across. I was told too that these instructions will be posted on the LS website this afternoon but that there must be something going on in the background (that they don't know what yet) which is why a lot of people didn't get the email

IgoPAP

Saying you don't want to type for the exam because you're a slow typer is the same as arguing that you can't do a written exam because you're a messy writer.

Sorry, but unless you've got some legitimate medical reason, it's a terrible excuse. Most people type more than they write these days.

lawgirl23

SKLaw wrote: »

I've emailed the FE1 Section so hopefully I'll get that email sent across. I was told too that these instructions will be posted on the LS website this afternoon but that there must be something going on in the background (that they don't know what yet) which is why a lot of people didn't get the email

I just emailed too! Not that I’m expecting a response to be honest.

As an aside, I’ve had responses from four local TDs to my letter who have said they will take up the matter with their party colleagues and appropriate ministers and come back to me when they have a response.

EmmaO94

IgoPAP wrote: »

Saying you don't want to type for the exam because you're a slow typer is the same as arguing that you can't do a written exam because you're a messy writer.

Sorry, but unless you've got some legitimate medical reason, it's a terrible excuse. Most people type more than they write these days.

I think the problem for a lot of people is that they signed up for a written exam and the format has been turned on its head at the last minute.

SKLaw

lawgirl23 wrote: »

I just emailed too! Not that I’m expecting a response to be honest.

As an aside, I’ve had responses from four local TDs to my letter who have said they will take up the matter with their party colleagues and appropriate ministers and come back to me when they have a response.

Yeah I'm not hopeful about getting a response either.

Well, that's some progress on the TD front. I suppose we'll have to be patient enough to see if/when they have a response. Fingers crossed!

WesternC123

We've been preparing for a written exam and have only ever sat written exams so I don't agree that it's a 'terrible excuse'. If you're happy to type an exam great but I think those who don't want to shouldn't have to?

Dliodoir2021

IgoPAP wrote: »

Saying you don't want to type for the exam because you're a slow typer is the same as arguing that you can't do a written exam because you're a messy writer.

Sorry, but unless you've got some legitimate medical reason, it's a terrible excuse. Most people type more than they write these days.

With respect, it really isn’t. We learn to write from around age 4, whereas there are designated typing courses later in life/school that not everyone does so likely aren’t as confident or skilled at typing. (My typing speed is between 70 and 80 so that’s not an issue for me but I’m saying this to hopefully put the assumption to bed).

People do need to stop worrying so much over the method - not everyone is going to be happy.

Our energy could be better invested in training towards this new exam - our brain will need to work differently, so ensure we don’t forget anything when it isn’t on the page in front of us.

The usuals like looking after our health around exam time but a new one is to be more careful of our eyes: limit screen time beyond work/study and take breaks from the screen. So important.

Hopefully we’ll get on good with this new method 😊

sarahlawless

IgoPAP wrote: »

Saying you don't want to type for the exam because you're a slow typer is the same as arguing that you can't do a written exam because you're a messy writer.

Sorry, but unless you've got some legitimate medical reason, it's a terrible excuse. Most people type more than they write these days.

Typed exams place me at an advantage, far more so than written exams. I type very fast and have typed all my notes and past questions. That said, IgoPAP would you ever cop on and stop being so insensitive - not everyone is as lucky as you and I 'mate'.

Samuma

IgoPAP wrote: »

Saying you don't want to type for the exam because you're a slow typer is the same as arguing that you can't do a written exam because you're a messy writer.

Sorry, but unless you've got some legitimate medical reason, it's a terrible excuse. Most people type more than they write these days.

Most people do type more than they write these days indeed. But not 3 hour exams. And not under the circumstances of being informed 2 weeks out. They aren't even allowing for paper to do out written plans that you can type from. So this "mock exam" next week will be the first opportunity to see what the system is like.

In terms of medical reasons, they're also saying people can't use the bathroom. There's no need for any more commentary on why that's a joke.

Perhaps they're going to change the format of the exams and that we wont have to do 5 questions. Perhaps they're going to give us more time on the day. Perhaps they'll let us have a piece of paper to make notes. Perhaps they'll let us use the bathroom.
Perhaps, they might have let us know so that we wouldn't be guessing.

Ps I didn't get the email either. Lots of people don't use Boards. They can't even get that right. Shambles.

RaffRiff01

Hazel774 wrote: »

Yes, finding is a good one to add in, and just add to what's said here, if you look at the examiners reports for the finding question they copy and paste the exact same paragraph into the reports every single time finding comes up and its actually a pretty detailed answer plan! Lists all the cases you'll need... so I would definitely look through the reports on finding and you'll put together a sample answer quite quickly.
I believe adverse possession is on practically every paper too, so between succession and adverse possession you should have 3 questions covered already!

Thank you so much for this! any chance that you would have those property examiner reports or sample answers? i desperately need them as well! thank you so much

rutha1994

I don't have a laptop, stable Internet and I don't live in a quiet area. I also don't have cash lying around to have everything sorted in the next two weeks.

CMUL

Its going to be the law society themselves its says using its own examination platform? Like seriously every results day the system crashes. They have also said we can ring if we have a problem during exam? Really ring a society that doesn't answer their phones! I would be much more confident if the exam was outsourced to another independent company.

Shonagoring123

Are you not allowed a bathroom break for the three hours?
Also for the purpose of problem questions when we’ve been trained to highlight the issues to be discussed and everyone jots down the structure of the question and the key cases - are we not allowed print the exam and do that does anyone know?

surely with such a big change to the exam (whether it suits you or not) they are going to have to take it into consideration when marking..

Not being able to print out the exam paper is an enormous issue imo, thinking of problem questions where the scenario can often span more than a page, I think highlighting and identifying the issues will be so much harder off a screen where you can’t make notes as things pop into your head!