FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

Fe1Student20

jus_me wrote: »

Early next week

Were you told this over the phone? Just not seeing anything on the LS website nor did I receive any email confirmation, unless I'm missing something.

I'm presuming that's how vague they were and they didn't give you anything more than "early next week", which will likely mean Monday eve the week after, the night before Tort.

dobby896

bluerthanu wrote: »

Currently studying equity and my understanding is that you apply Campus Oil but the evidential burden is much higher. So (afaik), applying the threshold test you would need to prove that there is a substantial risk of danger, which must occur before the trial of action. Cases after Szabo, Gurraghy v. Bord na gCon and JRM Sports v. RTE, have applied the Campus Oil test also.

From what I can see QTI’s are generally problem questions (sometimes mixed with mandatory interlocutory injunctions) so would need to apply Campus Oil to the facts but you’re primarily focused on whether you can prove that there is fear of substantial risk of danger (Boswell was moral risk of certainty, but Szabo indicated the standard wasn’t that evidentially high) which will occur before the trial of action (and this must be either anticipated or feared, or occurred and the plaintiff fears its reoccurrence). The evidence of the danger will be vital, as Goeghegan J emphasised in Szabo.

That’s kinda what I have, open to corrections.

Okay perfect, that makes far more sense. So, because the evidential burden is much higher, that is why Geoghegan J stated that it is appropriate for the court to consider the background, expertise and experience of expert witnesses who have been called to prove the risk. (usually in the problem questions there is always some dodgy report which the applicant is attempting to rely on). In the judgement as well, Geoghegan J stated that even if he were to apply Campus Oil, he would have reached the same verdict but just found it inappropriate in the circumstances of the case so that's where my confusion stemmed from, he seemed to establish his own set of principles while also saying that it is all g to continue to use Campus Oil. Thanks for clearing that up!

However, do mandatory interlocutory injunctions not apply the Boyhan and Lignham principles as opposed to Campus Oil in relation to establishing a strong case of likelihood of success at trial?

dobby896

FE1_2020_ wrote: »

I wrestled with the same thoughts when I was doing my notes for that question. I came across the Murphy v Irish Water 2016 case where O'Regan J in the High Court stated that the test to be applied in application for a quia timet injunction was addressed by Geoghegan J in Szabo.

Thus, I am going with the Szabo approach as it is the main case when Quia Timet injunctions are examined and affirming this approach by referencing O'Regan J comments in Murphy that the test to be applied in QT was addressed in Szabo.

Thanks for citing that case! I'll give it a look now, I would have assumed that a 2019 manual would have had a 2016 case haha

bluerthanu

dobby896 wrote: »

Okay perfect, that makes far more sense. So, because the evidential burden is much higher, that is why Geoghegan J stated that it is appropriate for the court to consider the background, expertise and experience of expert witnesses who have been called to prove the risk. (usually in the problem questions there is always some dodgy report which the applicant is attempting to rely on). In the judgement as well, Geoghegan J stated that even if he were to apply Campus Oil, he would have reached the same verdict but just found it inappropriate in the circumstances of the case so that's where my confusion stemmed from, he seemed to establish his own set of principles while also saying that it is all g to continue to use Campus Oil. Thanks for clearing that up!

However, do mandatory interlocutory injunctions not apply the Boyhan and Lignham principles as opposed to Campus Oil in relation to establishing a strong case of likelihood of success at trial?

As seems to always be the case, there’s not clear authority on what test is to be applied in mandatory interlocutory injunctions. She mentions in her reports (as do the manuals I think) that the courts have adopted three different approaches: (1) the egalitarian/Campus Oil approach (Campus Oil itself was a mandatory interlocutory injunction); (2) the discriminatory/strong case approach (Maha Lingham - SC decision fwiw); or (3) the risk of injustice approach (Film Rovers in the U.K., but notably Clarke CJ appears to prefer this approach from his judgments in AIB v. Diamond and Charleton v. Scriven - 2019 SC case). Right now, it’s probably a mix of (2) and (3) I would think but nevertheless a Court is likely to consider the balance of convenience with any higher threshold. The courts appear to be emphasising since Merck Sharpe that for injunctions in general it’s about doing the least injustice to parties and that it’s not a hard and fast set of rules. So I think some part of Campus Oil is naturally going to feature in an injunction action (if only to guide a judges inquiry).

Lelila

awsah wrote: »

yes we can use the bathroom and we have to notify them, I'm not sure how exactly...put a "back in 5 mins" sign in front of the camera?

In the practice exam I think I saw a button you can press for a bathroom break.

Aoibhin511

Lelila wrote: »

In the practice exam I think I saw a button you can press for a bathroom break.

Really? what did the icon look like

fe.nofun

Anyone know the story with legislative sources? Are we allowed to use physical copies in this exam format or can we use an online form? I have emailed them 3 times and called twice but no response.
Also waiting on my script still... a month after applying for it...

Lawlaw12

Lelila wrote: »

In the practice exam I think I saw a button you can press for a bathroom break.

Oh I never saw that, and we can't click back in after we submit it
Where was that icon?

Hazel774

Has anyone gotten an answer on whether there will be an actual person watching us on the day?
I'm hoping there is, because if there's an issue with the room we're in/ with something we're doing I'd rather find out during the exam than be told afterwards when there's nothing I can do about it

Lelila

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

Really? what did the icon look like

Not sure what the icon looked like, but I definitely saw 'register a bathroom break' or similar wording. I think it was near the clock. Sorry not to be more exact but I clicked on so many things I can't rember exactly.

Marylaw96

Anyone know what the story is with exam numbers etc ? Or if there will be a live invigilator watching us? Presumed it was going to be like medical exams where students had to show the area they were in to make sure no notes were around but that doesn’t seem to be the case here ? Or was that just for the mock - don’t see how they can police cheating with the way the camera has been set up ?

maewest19

Hi, has anyone got an up to date company exam grid? Willing to swap!

DUMSURFER

fe.nofun wrote: »

Anyone know the story with legislative sources? Are we allowed to use physical copies in this exam format or can we use an online form? I have emailed them 3 times and called twice but no response.
Also waiting on my script still... a month after applying for it...

It will be physical copies. During the mock run if you leave the page, a timer starts and if your not back before that runs out your exam is over so don't see how that is compatible with using a digital copy when the mock is supposed to be a near 1:1 trail run of the day.

Plus, there's no way they could make people use legislation that isn't tabbed or highlighted, it would be callous considering how time consuming it would be to find the information you need. Some of us who are much slower at typing than writing are already disadvantaged enough with the exam still only being 3 hours and no ability to highlight the questions. Never mind the fact they haven't mentioned it will be digital, knowing people are or have already shelled out money for the physical copies that are required.

Lallers96

Would anyone be kind enough to send me sample answers for Property Law? I'm missing a lot of answers I'm looking for from my batch of them.

channing90

Just finished the mock and it seems straight foward, I couldn’t see any place to click for a toilet break except at the start they say go before the exam. Also the inbuilt camera can only see your face while typing, how can they even know it’s the legislation that your looking at since they can’t see that much through the camera.

Samuma

I don't suppose anyone has an up to date criminal grid? My sense is that we kinda need to know everything on the syllabus as questions are so mixed?

Thanks in advance. I can't wait for these to be over. I haven't tried out the mock yet cause it might send me into a complete spin and i'm not mentally prepared yet

Iso_123

Hey i was wondering if anyone had any sample company answers? I have some property ones to swap

Dliodoir2021

channing90 wrote: »

Just finished the mock and it seems straight foward, I couldn’t see any place to click for a toilet break except at the start they say go before the exam. Also the inbuilt camera can only see your face while typing, how can they even know it’s the legislation that your looking at since they can’t see that much through the camera.

They could have the screen that they show us of our face zoomed in a lot to make us think that. It so isn't worth the risk to chance anything though!

I was trying to use the sticky note and found that it kept blocking either the problem question or the answer input box. (I couldn't drag it outside of that area). I went on live chat about it 3 times and the people were based in Arizona, thought I was studying in New York, and said the sticky note thing must be provided by our exam provider (or something along those lines) - either way, they reloaded my exam and each time it didn't rectify it.

So now we have a 'sticky note' that isn't fit for purpose as it covers our question or our work! Unbelievable system!!

Lealaw

Dliodoir2021 wrote: »

They could have the screen that they show us of our face zoomed in a lot to make us think that. It so isn't worth the risk to chance anything though!

I was trying to use the sticky note and found that it kept blocking either the problem question or the answer input box. (I couldn't drag it outside of that area). I went on live chat about it 3 times and the people were based in Arizona, thought I was studying in New York, and said the sticky note thing must be provided by our exam provider (or something along those lines) - either way, they reloaded my exam and each time it didn't rectify it.

So now we have a 'sticky note' that isn't fit for purpose as it covers our question or our work! Unbelievable system!!

There was an option under the sticky note to minimise it. It was annoying me too trying to move it around the screen but the minimise option worked well and just meant that I could pull it up when I needed it! 👍

Lawlaw12

Dliodoir2021 wrote: »

They could have the screen that they show us of our face zoomed in a lot to make us think that. It so isn't worth the risk to chance anything though!

I was trying to use the sticky note and found that it kept blocking either the problem question or the answer input box. (I couldn't drag it outside of that area). I went on live chat about it 3 times and the people were based in Arizona, thought I was studying in New York, and said the sticky note thing must be provided by our exam provider (or something along those lines) - either way, they reloaded my exam and each time it didn't rectify it.

So now we have a 'sticky note' that isn't fit for purpose as it covers our question or our work! Unbelievable system!!

Same for me, but if you use the other 'note' option it lets you move it to the righthand side so it's not blocking the question or answer box

Lelila

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

Same for me, but if you use the other 'note' option it lets you move it to the righthand side so it's not blocking the question or answer box

The sticky notes stay on the page of the question you put them on (you can add or remove them using the toolbar on the right, or you can drag them to another position). Whereas the note pad stays at the side of the screen & is still visible when you move from one question to another.

Lelila

channing90 wrote: »

Just finished the mock and it seems straight foward, I couldn’t see any place to click for a toilet break except at the start they say go before the exam. Also the inbuilt camera can only see your face while typing, how can they even know it’s the legislation that your looking at since they can’t see that much through the camera.

I thought the same about the camera. My laptop is small so I'm close up to the camera when I'm typing.

jus_me

Fe1Student20 wrote: »

Were you told this over the phone? Just not seeing anything on the LS website nor did I receive any email confirmation, unless I'm missing something.

I'm presuming that's how vague they were and they didn't give you anything more than "early next week", which will likely mean Monday eve the week after, the night before Tort.

I phoned the law society yesterday and Carmel said early next week and that we’d receive an email.

Fe1Student20

jus_me wrote: »

I phoned the law society yesterday and Carmel said early next week and that we’d receive an email.

Oh that actually sounds promising. Thanks very much for the update!

arubamuuu

Contract Law

Does anyone have any condensed contract law notes they'd be willing to share? I done one of the prep courses and have been studying for a while but I'm starting to panic and feel like I haven't retained any information. I would really appreciate it!

bkm2020

I'm gone all paranoid about the mock now. I found the system actually fine.. but it is ok to "jump" from one question and come back to it? I seen something about clock on a timer and exiting the page? I would like to be able to log on to the exam again to just double check for myself...

Had a lot of technical difficulty at the start with the system diagnostics. Don't want that on the day but you can live chat for assistance.. another query for the LS to see if this eats into exam time!

Dliodoir2021

bkm2020 wrote: »

I'm gone all paranoid about the mock now. I found the system actually fine.. but it is ok to "jump" from one question and come back to it? I seen something about clock on a timer and exiting the page? I would like to be able to log on to the exam again to just double check for myself...

Had a lot of technical difficulty at the start with the system diagnostics. Don't want that on the day but you can live chat for assistance.. another query for the LS to see if this eats into exam time!

And hopefully it's not someone in Arizona we're talking to on live chat that thinks we're in New York (which happened me today)

bkm2020

Dliodoir2021 wrote: »

And hopefully it's not someone in Arizona we're talking to on live chat that thinks we're in New York (which happened me today)

Serious gaps in the system by the sounds of it...

Hazel774

Has anyone been getting responses to their emails lately?
I've emailed a few different email addresses in the LS in the last few weeks with questions about the exams, and all have been ignored. I genuinely cannot believe how many unanswered questions I still have this close to the start of the exams.

This drip feeding of information is driving me up the wall, any time they try and give us a tiny bit of information I'm just left with a thousand more questions which all go unanswered, I'm so frustrated with them at this point

Lawlaw12

Hazel774 wrote: »

Has anyone been getting responses to their emails lately?
I've emailed a few different email addresses in the LS in the last few weeks with questions about the exams, and all have been ignored. I genuinely cannot believe how many unanswered questions I still have this close to the start of the exams.

This drip feeding of information is driving me up the wall, any time they try and give us a tiny bit of information I'm just left with a thousand more questions which all go unanswered, I'm so frustrated with them at this point

Same, absolute radio silence from them..
It's so frustrating when we have genuine queries about exams that start in 12 days! They wouldn't have so many emails to respond to if they'd just send us one email with all the exam details in it

Samuma

Tried the mock. Couldn't do it. Just can't type up an answer without being able to make written notes to refer to. The sticky notes are pointless. They're not the same as written.
I am doing criminal which is considered one of the easier ones to do and apply the law.
I won't have a hope in hell of doing well in constitution without being able to write a plan.

Shame on them for only giving us 2 weeks notice to get used to this completely new way of doing an exam that we have never had to do in our lives.
And shame on them for asking us to give feedback last week with our concerns when they had no intention of taking any of it into consideration.

It looks like i'll be asking for a refund.

JHalpin

I have just tried to sit that Mock exam. Criminal Law Mock paper, I half answered a few questions as I passed Criminal last year so just spewed out anything I thought was relevant off the top of my head. I found that really quite tough without the ability to hand write some rough work or brain dump some information in order to formulate an answer. Then I leaned on my headphones which I didn't even realise were plugged in and Ariana Grande started blasting out of the earphones and I couldn't figure out where the music was coming from on the laptop and if I tried to click out of the exam page to turn it off it would notify me that I had left the exam and start a countdown timer to come back in..... honestly, Im a bit shaken after that, such a bizarre was to try and sit an exam.

Samuma

....."no tears left to cry"...

Fedone

Has anyone been in touch with the law society about any other options if we’re not comfortable with the online format? Sorry if I’ve missed it above. Could not wrap my head around not being able to jot down case names on the exam paper or doing out a rough plan before a question in the mock. Does anyone think if enough of us complain they’d have to reconsider going on ahead with this?

aisoburke1994

The way I see it - the LS owes us a duty of care to provide this information in a reasonable time frame. Also thanks to all who provided predictions of what topics they think might come up.

People’s careers are on the line here and the LS don’t give a s**t

Hazel774

Fedone wrote: »

Has anyone been in touch with the law society about any other options if we’re not comfortable with the online format? Sorry if I’ve missed it above. Could not wrap my head around not being able to jot down case names on the exam paper or doing out a rough plan before a question in the mock. Does anyone think if enough of us complain they’d have to reconsider going on ahead with this?

I wish, but unfortunately our complaints mean nothing to them, they don't care. The exams start in 12 days and they haven't even told us what time they're on at, if we can use the bathroom, have a drink of water etc...

There's probably not even a point in trying to complain to them about it, considering they ignored a public petition against them last month which got almost 700 signatures (the petition is moot now, but the changes were only made due to their hands being tied with covid restrictions, nothing to do with the impact they were having on candidates). That's effectively them just ignoring 700 complaints

EM95

DUMSURFER wrote: »

It will be physical copies. During the mock run if you leave the page, a timer starts and if your not back before that runs out your exam is over so don't see how that is compatible with using a digital copy when the mock is supposed to be a near 1:1 trail run of the day.

Plus, there's no way they could make people use legislation that isn't tabbed or highlighted, it would be callous considering how time consuming it would be to find the information you need. Some of us who are much slower at typing than writing are already disadvantaged enough with the exam still only being 3 hours and no ability to highlight the questions. Never mind the fact they haven't mentioned it will be digital, knowing people are or have already shelled out money for the physical copies that are required.

Are you allowed to tab the Companies Act?

Aoibhin511

EM95 wrote: »

Are you allowed to tab the Companies Act?

Yes, tab and highlight/underline, just not writing

maggie95

EM95 wrote: »

Are you allowed to tab the Companies Act?

Yep!

Hiya1234

Exams are 10am - 1pm according to timetable on Law Society website. Didn't see that the last time I looked at the timetable.

Aoibhin511

Hiya1234 wrote: »

Exams are 10am - 1pm according to timetable on Law Society website. Didn't see that the last time I looked at the timetable.

Updating a pdf linked on the website without telling anyone... a law society classic

illy.m

Just tried the mock exam. The system seemed ok. There was no bathroom break tab anywhere. Also, find it very hard to do without being able to write a plan on the page.

I am left with more questions tbh - like if we have a problem, there is no one to address it to. What happens if LS do not reply to the phone lines they have provided, what should we do? Do we have to show the legislation at the start? or every time we use it... I am just conscious that if something goes wrong, would we lose the exam attempt and our money?

StabiloLaw

bkm2020 wrote: »

I'm gone all paranoid about the mock now. I found the system actually fine.. but it is ok to "jump" from one question and come back to it? I seen something about clock on a timer and exiting the page? I would like to be able to log on to the exam again to just double check for myself...

Had a lot of technical difficulty at the start with the system diagnostics. Don't want that on the day but you can live chat for assistance.. another query for the LS to see if this eats into exam time!

I tried going from one question to the other, and when I went back you could add extra information to a prior question.

You can flag ones which are incomplete and come back to them at the end, and before I exited, it told me I had a flagged question and could also filter the 8 by questions which weren't attempted (I wrote jibberish- I've passed criminal so didn't even bother reading the questions).

I tried completely x out to see what would happen and a 30 second timer went off to tell me that if I didn't return to the exam, it would submit it, but it's not something I could have missed should I have x'd out by accident.

I noted that my timer remained going when I used the chat function so I assume it still eats into our time.

I didn't personally have any issues during the exam but surely the Law Society would be willing to do another mock, even with the same questions just to let people get to grips with some of the features yet again.

JHalpin

I went to bed so anxious last night about not being able to do hand written rough work. Having attempted the mock paper last night it made me realise how much, in an exam situation, I rely on jotting down case names and planning an answer while I go through the paper. Sometimes Ill be halfway through a different question and a case for another question will pop into my head so Ill turn back and jot that in to the plan. This is just all over the place and I'm not comfortable sitting the exams like this at all!

Iso_123

JHalpin wrote: »

I went to bed so anxious last night about not being able to do hand written rough work. Having attempted the mock paper last night it made me realise how much, in an exam situation, I rely on jotting down case names and planning an answer while I go through the paper. Sometimes Ill be halfway through a different question and a case for another question will pop into my head so Ill turn back and jot that in to the plan. This is just all over the place and I'm not comfortable sitting the exams like this at all!

I am still going to do a plan at the start of each answer I'm just going to type it instead of writing it! sometimes I put extra cases on the plan that I don't get to put in my actual answer so I don't think its any harm in just typing out at the start of the answer "plan/rough work" and doing out some bullet points that come to your mind when reading the question. I have done this in all my written exams so far so I don't see why we shouldn't be able to do the same on the typed format

awsah

JHalpin wrote: »

I went to bed so anxious last night about not being able to do handwritten rough work. Having attempted the mock paper last night it made me realise how much, in an exam situation, I rely on jotting down case names and planning an answer while I go through the paper. Sometimes Ill be halfway through a different question and a case for another question will pop into my head so I'll turn back and jot that in to the plan. This is just all over the place and I'm not comfortable sitting the exams like this at all!

It doesn't even make sense that we can have legislation but not rough work sheets, but making sense is not as important to them as exam integrity.

I am not happy about the way this is being done, I am hoping the examiners will take all of this into consideration and mark accordingly. I really want these over and done with now, so I am just trying to plough on and hope for the best!

APower79

Iso_123 wrote: »

I am still going to do a plan at the start of each answer I'm just going to type it instead of writing it! sometimes I put extra cases on the plan that I don't get to put in my actual answer so I don't think its any harm in just typing out at the start of the answer "plan/rough work" and doing out some bullet points that come to your mind when reading the question. I have done this in all my written exams so far so I don't see why we shouldn't be able to do the same on the typed format

Think I’ll do the same. You can do it in the ‘normal’ exam so why not in this. I want it to be as straight forward as possible and not be jumping round from question and to sticky note to answer etc

bkm2020

Iso_123 wrote: »

I am still going to do a plan at the start of each answer I'm just going to type it instead of writing it! sometimes I put extra cases on the plan that I don't get to put in my actual answer so I don't think its any harm in just typing out at the start of the answer "plan/rough work" and doing out some bullet points that come to your mind when reading the question. I have done this in all my written exams so far so I don't see why we shouldn't be able to do the same on the typed format

Do you think it is better to "plan/rough work" at the start of the actual typed answer or to use the sticky note/notepad option? I suppose the examiner will be sure to notice it at the top of the answer...

Lallers96

I rang, and eventually got through to the law society. Shirley was very helpful in answering my questions, and I just wanted to share her answers.

1. Will we be able to use legislation?
- Yes
2. If so, how will be showing it as the mock exam didn't prompt us to display it?
- The actual exam may be different to mock exam and we should be showing workplace and legislation
3. Toilet breaks?
- Yes, just announce you're going to the toilet and go
4. Rough work situation? (I raised it as a problem for me)
- As of now use sticky note function, they are responding to feedback and are obviously getting a lot of people who want to use paper.
5. What if we have technical problems mid-exam is there a contact number we can ring?
- There will be more info provided asap on that, but they plan to have a team on hold during exams
6. Will there be a person watching us live?
- No, all automated.