Wrestlemania 2020 - Spoilers, rumours, etc

Lithium93_

Oh would ya give it a break, it's been a week, they were dumb wrestling matches designed to entertain in a time of uncertainty, not to be picked apart with a fine tooth comb.

Omackeral

For me it’s goes Boneyard Match, Firefly Funhouse and then Empty Arena.


Boneyard was like something I’d never seen on WWE, certainly not at WrestleMania. Seeing Taker in that guise for the first time in nearly 20 years was great. He’s done as the phenom in my book, this was interesting seeing the curtain come back a bit and Styles acting was great fun for me. The corniness of it all worked when it shouldn’t have. Most people I know loved it.

The Wyatt Cena thing was definitely not a wrestling match at all IMO. However I loved it for the bat**** craziness and the insider references. Felt like a love letter to long time smart fans and I liked it.

Ciampa v Gargano I think was a step too far. I know why they did it but it was too close on time to the other two. If that was done as a stand-alone a few months later or earlier would’ve gone over better as something very different. Also borrowed a lot from Edge v Orton to the point they were on top of a truck.

Jayesdiem

Wrestling can be many things. I’ll tell you what it can’t be though: an infantile chain of vignettes in which one of the competitors is brought on a whistle stop tour of his past whereby he gets to relive many of the key moments of his career in full contemporary costume. It reminded me of that Premier League “match” a few years back when Alex Ferguson banished Kevin Keegan back to the mid 90s where he was forced relive the painful conclusion the 1994 season when his team came agonisingly close to breaking Man Utd’s dominance. As it occurred in the nether realms, it was the most entertaining match I’ve ever seen. Next week, Diego Maradona takes on England in a recalling of his famous Hand of God match. What a humdinger of a “contest” that will be.

LineOfBeauty

Omackeral wrote: »

For me it’s goes Boneyard Match, Firefly Funhouse and then Empty Arena.


Boneyard was like something I’d never seen on WWE, certainly not at WrestleMania. Seeing Taker in that guise for the first time in nearly 20 years was great. He’s done as the phenom in my book, this was interesting seeing the curtain come back a bit and Styles acting was great fun for me. The corniness of it all worked when it shouldn’t have. Most people I know loved it.

The Wyatt Cena thing was definitely not a wrestling match at all IMO. However I loved it for the bat**** craziness and the insider references. Felt like a love letter to long time smart fans and I liked it.

Ciampa v Gargano I think was a step too far. I know why they did it but it was too close on time to the other two. If that was done as a stand-alone a few months later or earlier would’ve gone over better as something very different. Also borrowed a lot from Edge v Orton to the point they were on top of a truck.

I'd go in the same order.

Boneyard is camp fun. That's fine. I wouldn't be putting it in the main event of a Wrestlemania but it was in on the joke and that's OK. You can watch it and enjoy it ironically. It's not for me, but it has a bit of charm.

The Wyatt stuff I just hate, even when it comes to the insider stuff it was so surface level and obvious like all the Wyatt stuff, it did nothing for me.

But ye that NXT match was the worst of all. So far, worst match I've seen this year.

DM_7

I hope they bring back Snooki or Flo Rida next year for mania, good times...

LineOfBeauty

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's not a trick question. I'm just wondering what you would have be your limit to something thar qualifies as a wrestling match and something that doesn't. For example, I'd consider Gargano /Ciampa a wrestling match, but Wyatt/Cena I'd say was not. I'd say it was even less of a match than Lance Archer on AEW beating up randomers in a ring in a forest. Outside of whether you enjoyed it or not, I'm not sure how the Wyatt stuff in particular can be defined as a match. It's a video segment.

Perhaps not. While it certainly was not a traditional match per se, it is still wrestling. It had the theatrics and through a pincount, albeit a very obscure pin count, had a winner and a loser.

What defines a match doesn't bother me, what bothers me is people dismissing other people's enjoyment of a wrestling product by dictating that their opinion is correct and others are not.

You are entitled to hate as much as you want, but the fact that you still watch stuff you know you will hate is indicative of your own life than anyone elses.

Jayesdiem

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Wrestling can be many things. I’ll tell you what it can’t be though: an infantile chain of vignettes in which one of the competitors is brought on a whistle stop tour of his past whereby he gets to relive many of the key moments of his career in full contemporary costume. It reminded me of that Premier League “match” a few years back when Alex Ferguson banished Kevin Keegan back to the mid 90s where he was forced relive the painful conclusion the 1994 season when his team came agonisingly close to breaking Man Utd’s dominance. As it occurred in the nether realms, it was the most entertaining match I’ve ever seen. Next week, Diego Maradona takes on England in a recalling of his famous Hand of God match. What a humdinger of a “contest” that will be.

Football is a legitimate sport. Wrestling is storytelling.

When you grasp that, then you might understand that wrestling is closer to Dream Team than it is premier League. Comparing the two doesn't further your argument.

Wrestling, to you, must not be infantile. When exactly did you start to like wrestling? Ultimate warrior era, undertaker era, repo man era, sparky plugg era, hurricane era, papa Shango era, Val venis era, DX era?

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perhaps not. While it certainly was not a traditional match per se, it is still wrestling. It had the theatrics and through a pincount, albeit a very obscure pin count, had a winner and a loser.

What defines a match doesn't bother me, what bothers me is people dismissing other people's enjoyment of a wrestling product by dictating that their opinion is correct and others are not.

You are entitled to hate as much as you want, but the fact that you still watch stuff you know you will hate is indicative of your own life than anyone elses.

I watched a show called "Wrestlemania" hoping to see wrestling. That was silly of me.

It literally took place in a taped setting with silly camera angles, dumb special effects, had a soundtrack in the background and featuring a transporting monster taking place in the inner conscious or some other nonsense of John Cena. It was a bad student homemade movie featuring wrestlers. If that's a match then put me down for Scorpion King as wrestling match of the year 2002.

Bounty Hunter

Chuck Noland

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Please tell me the text will be bolded?

DM_7

Mania is on BT tonight and tomorrow.

LineOfBeauty

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I watched a show called "Wrestlemania" hoping to see wrestling. That was silly of me.

It literally took place in a taped setting with silly camera angles, dumb special effects, had a soundtrack in the background and featuring a transporting monster taking place in the inner conscious or some other nonsense of John Cena. It was a bad student homemade movie featuring wrestlers. If that's a match then put me down for Scorpion King as wrestling match of the year 2002.

I know. Shocking.

I wonder did any other Wrestlemania upset you as much or were you able to suspend your disbelief?

It's patently obvious that you knew what to expect from the main events this year and just want to vent to show that you are a wrestling purist.

We get it. You obviously love wrestling more than us. It's so great and real and deserves to be held in higher regard. People like me are why you can't love wrestling in public to all your normal friends.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry I enjoyed it. I hate wrestling obviously as you alluded to previously. Demonstrably. The fact that I enjoyed Wrestlemania as a whole and didn't take to the internet to whinge and bitch means I am the problem.

It's not you. It couldn't be.

You love wrestling.

Itssoeasy

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm actually asking The Dunne a question. Your stuff I can get to later.

In the mean time tell me, of Mcmahon's 3 ventures into cinema in the last few days, which did you personally enjoy and which did you not enjoy?

Well that attitude won't help in all fairness. Leggo is a constructive poster here which I've not seen you do yet.

Monokne

I feel like if LineOfBeauty liked chocolate ice cream and I told him I preferred vanilla, he'd spend a week trying to explain to me why my personal taste is wrong.

I liked the boneyard match, I didn't like the funhouse, and I haven't watched Gargano-Ciampa, but I am good with all of them. Enjoy what you enjoy, don't bother with what you don't.

The line from Leggo - "Some people don’t think music without guitars is ‘real’ music" really captures the whole piece here. Wrestling is a performance art, now more than ever. It's not 1985. There is no pretence it's realm so they can go out of the box if they want.

Oh and for the record, I really do like vanilla ice cream more than chocolate.

Lithium93_

Off topic, but going on Monokne's post above, there's absolutely nothing wrong with vanilla ice cream...

johnnysmack

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Off topic, but going on Monokne's post above, there's absolutely nothing wrong with vanilla ice cream...

Pair of monsters!

beakerjoe

WWE for me is my Eastenders with fighting and athleticism. Wrestling has such a varied selection of entertainment and whether you liked it personally or not, the Boneyard matches and Funhouse segments have a place just as much as any 5 star match.

Lithium93_

johnnysmack wrote: »

Pair of monsters!

Fight me :P... Firefly Funhouse or Boneyeard match :pac:

Rock77

beakerjoe wrote: »

WWE for me is my Eastenders with fighting and athleticism. Wrestling has such a varied selection of entertainment and whether you liked it personally or not, the Boneyard matches and Funhouse segments have a place just as much as any 5 star match.

They have a place, just not at Wrestlemania...

In my opinion..

Omackeral

Rock77 wrote: »

They have a place, just not at Wrestlemania...

In my opinion..

WrestleMania wasn’t exactly gonna be normal this year though no matter what.

Rock77

Omackeral wrote: »

WrestleMania wasn’t exactly gonna be normal this year though no matter what.

I agree, I just meant going forward..
I think we will see this type of match again, but I will be very surprised if it’s at a full Wrestlemania stadium..

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know. Shocking.

I wonder did any other Wrestlemania upset you as much or were you able to suspend your disbelief?

It's patently obvious that you knew what to expect from the main events this year and just want to vent to show that you are a wrestling purist.

We get it. You obviously love wrestling more than us. It's so great and real and deserves to be held in higher regard. People like me are why you can't love wrestling in public to all your normal friends.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry I enjoyed it. I hate wrestling obviously as you alluded to previously. Demonstrably. The fact that I enjoyed Wrestlemania as a whole and didn't take to the internet to whinge and bitch means I am the problem.

It's not you. It couldn't be.

You love wrestling.

Hmm I do love wrestling. And no, no other Wrestlemania has annoyed me as much because they were all wrestling shows for better or worse.

From your comment I also learned that I've an insider perspective and I, nobody else just me, knew what those main event matches were going to be.

BTW the purist thing is silly, I'll watch any wrestling and judge it on it's own merits. From deathmatch to comedy ect.

But yes, if you want more of that stuff and less wrestling then just watch a bad movie. Simple as.

LineOfBeauty

Monokne wrote: »

I feel like if LineOfBeauty liked chocolate ice cream and I told him I preferred vanilla, he'd spend a week trying to explain to me why my personal taste is wrong.

I liked the boneyard match, I didn't like the funhouse, and I haven't watched Gargano-Ciampa, but I am good with all of them. Enjoy what you enjoy, don't bother with what you don't.

The line from Leggo - "Some people don’t think music without guitars is ‘real’ music" really captures the whole piece here. Wrestling is a performance art, now more than ever. It's not 1985. There is no pretence it's realm so they can go out of the box if they want.

Oh and for the record, I really do like vanilla ice cream more than chocolate.

Honestly like what you like, but calling at least 2 of those things wrestling matches is wrong. They aren't. And honestly if that's the level of content you enjoy in a serious, not funny bad way then I'd have to question what other content you consume if you think the WWE stuff is anything other than ironically fun.

LineOfBeauty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well that attitude won't help in all fairness. Leggo is a constructive poster here which I've not seen you do yet.

Well what would you like from me? I'll fire off takes left right and centre if you want.

LineOfBeauty

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Hmm I do love wrestling. And no, no other Wrestlemania has annoyed me as much because they were all wrestling shows for better or worse.

From your comment I also learned that I've an insider perspective and I, nobody else just me, knew what those main event matches were going to be.

BTW the purist thing is silly, I'll watch any wrestling and judge it on it's own merits. From deathmatch to comedy ect.

But yes, if you want more of that stuff and less wrestling then just watch a bad movie. Simple as.

Now you are being disingenuous.

I doubt that anyone who looks up the ****ing American viewership figures hours after a show didn't hear the multiple nailed on reports that the undertaker and bray Wyatt matches were going to be filmed a la hardy compound matches.

You certainly knew after the taker match on day one that Wyatt Vs cena would be equally if not more "less traditional".

You haven't said you would judge things or segments on their own merit. You have said that they don't belong on the show fullstop. You have also said that you don't care about WWE and yet here you are, again, full of piss and vinegar.

No other Wrestlemania pissed you off as much? Good. Have you watched many that were cobbled together because of a pandemic which prevented an audience attending? Golddust Vs Piper not annoy you?

Sure it doesn't matter anyway, you don't care about WWE.

I quite enjoy the product WWE produce at the minute. It's far from perfect but I like it. Why would I go off and watch a bad movie? So you can have wrestling be the way you want it to be? Jesus man, listen to yourself.

Your "take"

"I hate WWE. I want wrestling to be the way I want it. This isn't my wrestling. Don't tell me to go watch something that better suits my expectations. I'm going to watch stuff I don't like and then whinge about it"

My "take":

"That was really enjoyable. I would have changed parts of it but it's not all tailored for me so hey ho. Anyone that bitches about it probably shouldnt waste their time watching what is essentially entertainment. If you aren't entertained, don't watch. Not everything needs to be a five star classic or traditional".

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now you are being disingenuous.

I doubt that anyone who looks up the ****ing American viewership figures hours after a show didn't hear the multiple nailed on reports that the undertaker and bray Wyatt matches were going to be filmed a la hardy compound matches.

You certainly knew after the taker match on day one that Wyatt Vs cena would be equally if not more "less traditional".

You haven't said you would judge things or segments on their own merit. You have said that they don't belong on the show fullstop. You have also said that you don't care about WWE and yet here you are, again, full of piss and vinegar.

No other Wrestlemania pissed you off as much? Good. Have you watched many that were cobbled together because of a pandemic which prevented an audience attending? Golddust Vs Piper not annoy you?

Sure it doesn't matter anyway, you don't care about WWE.

I quite enjoy the product WWE produce at the minute. It's far from perfect but I like it. Why would I go off and watch a bad movie? So you can have wrestling be the way you want it to be? Jesus man, listen to yourself.

Your "take"

"I hate WWE. I want wrestling to be the way I want it. This isn't my wrestling. Don't tell me to go watch something that better suits my expectations. I'm going to watch stuff I don't like and then whinge about it"

My "take":

"That was really enjoyable. I would have changed parts of it but it's not all tailored for me so hey ho. Anyone that bitches about it probably shouldnt waste their time watching what is essentially entertainment. If you aren't entertained, don't watch. Not everything needs to be a five star classic or traditional".

That's a bad take when the champion on the highest rated brand is some kind of monster with puppets.

I can only assume the sources you read are way better connected than what I read. In my timeline there was an inkling it could be different but it didn't break that it would be Matt Hardy/Lucha Underground stuff.

I'm actually super chill. How about this, WWE, a company that regularly rags on WCW on their Network docs for producing some prime wrestlecrap stuff like White Castle of Fear of Dungeon of Doom and pats themselves on the back for not doing such inane nonsense, now has that nonsense headlining their biggest show of the year. And do you notice how thar stuff literally always comes to be judged as wrestlecrap?

Anyway this is going around in circles and anyone that says they enjoy current day WWE I'm not gonna really have much of a chance with so I need to get out of this because I feel like this thread is in fact my own Firefly Funhouse nonsense.

Insect Overlord

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Well what would you like from me? I'll fire off takes left right and centre if you want.

Ahem.

"Go away! Go away! Go away!"

That is all.

LineOfBeauty

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Anyway this is going around in circles and anyone that says they enjoy current day WWE I'm not gonna really have much of a chance with so I need to get out of this because I feel like this thread is in fact my own Firefly Funhouse nonsense.

Finally.

You admit you won't be able to discuss WWE with anyone who enjoys the product. If you don't enjoy it, or have distain for the opinions who do enjoy it, why the **** would you watch it?

Ffs, I hate Love Island. I wouldn't bother watching every episode just so I could tell the fans of the show why they are wrong and that there are other reality shows that are much better and this one sullies what could be the good name of reality television.

You don't like WWE. Don't watch it. Don't waste your time whinging about stuff you don't like/get.

That was our point all along.

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Finally.

You admit you won't be able to discuss WWE with anyone who enjoys the product. If you don't enjoy it, or have distain for the opinions who do enjoy it, why the **** would you watch it?

Ffs, I hate Love Island. I wouldn't bother watching every episode just so I could tell the fans of the show why they are wrong and that there are other reality shows that are much better and this one sullies what could be the good name of reality television.

You don't like WWE. Don't watch it. Don't waste your time whinging about stuff you don't like/get.

That was our point all along.

The starting point of the conversation is so wildly different that it's an exercise in frustration. Your definition of what pro wrestling, what you'd consider a match are all so at odds with me. And honestly I've made pretty much every point I want to and now I'm repeating myself.

Again, I don't watch their weekly stuff because, even in this current state where we're all starved for current graps, I can't bring myself to watch Smackdown or Raw. I'll catch an odd ppv and that's enough. But the big shows and NXT I do watch.

Whinging. Any criticism against even the most ludicrous angle in these WWE people's eyes is whinging. It's so odd, they accept literally anything this company puts in front of them. This at a time when ratings are falling away and they've had to revamp their ppv model because their over the top streaming service got nowhere near their projected target.

LineOfBeauty

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

The starting point of the conversation is so wildly different that it's an exercise in frustration. Your definition of what pro wrestling, what you'd consider a match are all so at odds with me. And honestly I've made pretty much every point I want to and now I'm repeating myself.

Again, I don't watch their weekly stuff because, even in this current state where we're all starved for current graps, I can't bring myself to watch Smackdown or Raw. I'll catch an odd ppv and that's enough. But the big shows and NXT I do watch.

Whinging. Any criticism against even the most ludicrous angle in these WWE people's eyes is whinging. It's so odd, they accept literally anything this company puts in front of them. This at a time when ratings are falling away and they've had to revamp their ppv model because their over the top streaming service got nowhere near their projected target.

Nah man. Just from the above quote:

"I can't bring myself to watch their weekly output; I'll watch some of their ppvs and the big ones".

Why? Why would you expect to like the culmination of the weekly shows you can't bear to bring yourself to watch? How ridiculous is that?

And my definition of wrestling is so different to yours and it's frustrating?

So what? My definition is accurate as far as I can see. Tell me how I'm wrong if you disagree.

And yes... Whinging. Complaining about an angle is fine. I do it myself. But to go on a tirade of how "they hate their audience" and to delight in bad ratings is being a whingy arse.

Get a ****ing hold of yourself man. It's wrestling (by any definition), so stop being such a little bitch about it. Nobody is forcing you to watch it. There's plenty of your preferred output. Leave the substandard stuff to us plebs.