Will it truly make any difference who forms the next Government.

Thelonious Monk

Calhoun wrote: »

There in lies the rub, it is very easy to lead an emotive charge against the destruction of rural life in Ireland and also extrapolate it to how the Greens could destroy other areas of Irish life.

They are so scared of people linking them to really negative policies you had a fluff piece from Eamon saying that they are trying to work "sustainable solution".

Its a pity we didn't have a scenario in the past 20 years where we forced allot of people outward from Dublin to be able to afford housing that it becomes such a big issue.

Well hopefully they can help to destroy it, the place is a mess now with no planning and no public transport and your reliance on cars. Needs to change.

Thelonious Monk

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Removal of child benefit for new applicant 3rd children would help too.
IE in 11 months time, the parents of any 3rd+ child born will not be able to get state benefit for that child.
It wont affect any existing parents with 3 (or more) kids, or any parents that are expecting their 3rd (or later).
This Social policy change would force people to plan.

Pie in the sky stuff regarding removal of child benefit. It's totally unfair on the child who didn't ask to be born and will never happen here.

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Pie in the sky stuff regarding removal of child benefit. It's totally unfair on the child who didn't ask to be born and will never happen here.

I agree with you in that it is highly unlikely that it will ever happen.

It would however have a dramatic effect on people by forcing them to change.

Perhaps some clever wording/slogan would help :D:D

Thelonious Monk

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I agree with you in that it is highly unlikely that it will ever happen.

It would however have a dramatic effect on people by forcing them to change.

Perhaps some clever wording/slogan would help :D:D

It really wouldn't effect them. Many people have no concept of responsibility.

Bishop of hope

I'm in Longford, we are currently the only county with no TD, and it it makes a desperate difference to a county to have no TD. We are with Westmeath as a constituency and all our TD's at present are from there.
The only candidates in my county with a viable chance of getting elected are from FG and FF, so I'll vote 1 and 2 for one or the other, not sure which, not because of any belief that one will be better or worse than the other, but because as a county we need a TD to represent us in the Dail.
Makes little or no difference which of them is in.

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It really wouldn't effect them. Many people have no concept of responsibility.

It's meant to have an effect on the exchequer though.

It gets complicated with mixed families though....

Snow Garden

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, it truly matters who is forming the next Government.

The greatest challenges of our time are the twin issues of climate change and the human effect on the environment. A Green presence in government is absolutely necessary as a result.

Yes, it will mean hardship for some, maybe even hardship for all, but some very difficult decisions need to be taken in these areas. Without the Greens, any other party will not have the stomach for it.

The Greens are in no danger of getting an overall majority so the best we can hope for is that they have a meaningful influence on government policy.

After that, choose between FF and FG as to which you want to lead the government (my own choice is FG) but that isn't as important as a Green presence. After that ignore the populist parties who promise everything like the PBP and SF but consider giving a high preference to Labour or the SDs.

Blanch, would you agree that in order to really tackle climate change we have to abandon the idea of a growth economy and actually start contracting the economy (less consumerism, less trade, less travel, less cars etc etc) - negative growth.

Thelonious Monk

Snow Garden wrote: »

Blanch, would you agree that in order to really tackle climate change we have to abandon the idea of a growth economy and actually start contracting the economy (less consumerism, less trade, less travel, less cars etc etc) - negative growth.

Exactly, this is what I would hope for. But no politician is going to fly that flag.

Big Ears

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well yes, we're pretty stupid as a race, so making things that are bad for the planet more expensive via taxes is probably one of the few things that works.

Does it work if no alternative is offered ?

IAMAMORON

Probably not.

But considering Fianna Fáil bankrupt this country 10 years ago I think it would be a shame to let them have the opportunity to do it again. In particular Mehole Martin sat on the very cabinet in power when the country was crumbling. He voted to liquidate the national pension, bail out the banks, raise taxes against pensioners and introduced austerity.

It frightens me how many people have forgotten this.

LeinsterDub

Calhoun wrote: »

This one is easy to answer, as many of the commentators in our media point out a blanket increase in carbon tax will lead to "fuel poverty" where those with lack of means will be forced to pay more as they will not be able to upgrade to a cleaner system and or any charge put onto suppliers will be dumped onto them.

They also have the reputation because they provide allot of stick with very little carrot. One of their grand solutions that surfaced this week was communal cars for rural villages.

Most other parties that will come up with increase taxes will offset it somewhere else, or will do it in a more sustainable manner.

Finally like FF and Fg the legacy of their previous time in power is coming back to haunt them.

The Green's carbon tax would be revenue neutral for the general tax payer and would be used to improve housing stock and as such lower fuel poverty.

The communal\car sharing isn't going to be mandatory it's optional an alternative

blanch152

bubblypop wrote: »

I disagree. Make more sustainable things cheaper.
Make all public transport free, not just for students!
Make it easier & more of an advantage to the public to choose green options.

All of that has to be paid for. How could it be done? Why, through a carbon tax on fossil fuels. Carrot and Stick.

Exactly how the Green party policies work.

LeinsterDub

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Retirement age is the next big problem facing Ireland, there literally wont be enough people working to support welfare payment and state pension (within 10 years by some estimates)

Let me guess , if I suggested that perhaps the trillion dollar companies could afford to give a bit more you'd be totally against this?

Edgware

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Probably not.

But considering Fianna Fáil bankrupt this country 10 years ago I think it would be a shame to let them have the opportunity to do it again. In particular Mehole Martin sat on the very cabinet in power when the country was crumbling. He voted to liquidate the national pension, bail out the banks, raise taxes against pensioners and introduced austerity.

It frightens me how many people have forgotten this.

If the best you can come with is schoolyard naming " Mehole" its easy understand how politicians make a fool of you

Calhoun

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well hopefully they can help to destroy it, the place is a mess now with no planning and no public transport and your reliance on cars. Needs to change.

I hope they try it, will be interesting to see what happens. I mainly would like to see them do semi-ok so they can be destroyed again.

If they actually had decent social policies that help people change it would be a different story but most greens cannot see past their own ego and self-righteousness to understand that.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It frightens me how many people have forgotten this.

I always find this one funny, its like some great take that you know more than the man on the street and people just have collective amnesia.

The truth is that there is no real alternative and if we are discounting parties that had no hand in the past 10-15 years in politics we would be left with most of the fractured left bar Labour and Sinn Fein. For allot of people thats not an option.

Thelonious Monk

Calhoun wrote: »

I hope they try it, will be interesting to see what happens. I mainly would like to see them do semi-ok so they can be destroyed again.

If they do ok they'll be gone in the next election you needn't worry, no one will vote for them after the next crash. I wonder if that tool Michael Fitzmaurice will get voted in again.

IAMAMORON

Edgware wrote: »

If the best you can come with is schoolyard naming " Mehole" its easy understand how politicians make a fool of you

Your entitled to have his back all you like.

But don't forget who you are actually supporting. He sat back and nodded his head when this country went broke. He was on the cabinet, he was involved in making the decisions that got us there.

I won't forget it.

Calhoun

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The Green's carbon tax would be revenue neutral for the general tax payer and would be used to improve housing stock and as such lower fuel poverty.

The communal\car sharing isn't going to be mandatory it's optional an alternative

How would they stop the cost cartel of energy suppliers we have at the moment from passing on the cost?

Also how would people avail of this improvement to housing stock and what would the lag be? It's already a nightmare availing of the SEAI grants.

Ah right I wasn't sure if it was going to be optional or not, but when it was said it was coming from a D4 type who loves to rent cars every once in a while when it's needed.

Calhoun

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If they do ok they'll be gone in the next election you needn't worry, no one will vote for them after the next crash. I wonder if that tool Michael Fitzmaurice will get voted in again.

If he plays it right he will, quite easy in rural Ireland to turn the greens into the bogeyman combine that with FG under leo not seen to be serving rural areas and it makes it easier for the local poor mouth to get in.

_Brian

Geuze wrote: »

Why do people associate the GP with higher taxes?

Every left-wing party will increase taxes:

SF
SD
Labour

Yes, the GP will increase the carbon tax, as you'd expect, which is a good idea.

SF plan cuts to pension tax reliefs, etc., etc.

Oh I do associate the whole left as increased taxes, but in fairness I mentioned the greens specifically because I think they will have a fighting chance of being the junior partner in the next government.

I’d never vote for a left leaning party.

LeinsterDub

Calhoun wrote: »

How would they stop the cost cartel of energy suppliers we have at the moment from passing on the cost?

Also how would people avail of this improvement to housing stock and what would the lag be? It's already a nightmare availing of the SEAI grants.

Ah right I wasn't sure if it was going to be optional or not, but when it was said it was coming from a D4 type who loves to rent cars every once in a while when it's needed.

You switch you carbon 0 suppliers.

There was a proposal of group schemes not sure if it was the Greens. Where you do all the houses on a street , village or town land so you get better prices.

Yeah imagine being able to rent a car when you need it and not have to sink thousands into them each year!

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

All of that has to be paid for. How could it be done? Why, through a carbon tax on fossil fuels. Carrot and Stick.

Exactly how the Green party policies work.

Motor tax takes in a billion Euro a year in Ireland.
The cost of free public transport for all is approx 600 million.
So no need there for extra tax.
Also, a congestion charge into the city centre, different rates for different times of day.

LeinsterDub

_Brian wrote: »

I’d never vote for a left leaning party.

Says the landlord . Quelle Surprise :rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110667479

StupidLikeAFox

lawred2 wrote: »

should be free transport for all funded by motor tax and urban congestion charges..

That would only benefit those living in a city/large town maybe. I (down the country) have a 30 min drive to work, if I take public transport it would take me several hours each way. Free public transport is of zero benefit to me

LeinsterDub

bubblypop wrote: »

Motor tax takes in a billion Euro a year in Ireland.
The cost of free public transport for all is approx 600 million.
So no need there for extra tax.
Also, a congestion charge into the city centre, different rates for different times of day.

Unfortunately the cost motoring is no where covered by that 1 billion. The externalised cost of motoring in Ireland is already 650 per person per year. You just increase that. Increasing motor tax is a better approach

JP Liz V1

FF or FG again as no one else will be given a chance of holding the majority, so shame ****e again

blanch152

Snow Garden wrote: »

Blanch, would you agree that in order to really tackle climate change we have to abandon the idea of a growth economy and actually start contracting the economy (less consumerism, less trade, less travel, less cars etc etc) - negative growth.

Not necessarily. Yes, there are some Greens who believe that is the only way, but there are other potential solutions. For example, how will we farm in the future?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lanabandoim/2019/05/31/what-the-future-of-farming-will-look-like-thanks-to-technology/

https://www.sciencefocus.com/future-technology/the-artificial-meat-factory-the-science-of-your-synthetic-supper/

Advances like these would actually allow us to feed more people yet return more land to its natural state at the same time.

Battery technology to store green-generated electricity is advancing too:

https://www.saftbatteries.com/media-resources/our-stories/three-battery-technologies-could-power-future

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2019/08/26/energys-future-battery-and-storage-technologies/#15a3736744cf

Future travel will obviously be dominated by electric cars, buses and trains, subject to the battery problem being overcome. That leaves ships and planes.

https://www.iflscience.com/technology/electric-aircraft-future-aviation-or-just-wishful-thinking/

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48630656

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/discoveries/electrified-ships/

We in Ireland have been less exposed to this thinking due to our society's (and government's) failure to seriously consider the implications of climate change. A green future isn't all about organic vegetables and cycling.

One thing is certain - carbon taxes will be needed to drive the changes in behaviour and to stimulate the investment in alternative technologies. The big challenges remain the battery storage issue and the food manufacturing alternatives. Overcome these and a future of growing economies, growing consumerism and travel could be even better.

_Brian

Absolutely

I’ll never say anything else.

I came from a family that had nothing, we worked very hard, both my parents worked in the 70’s when it was unusual, plus both essentially worked two jobs as we bought a farm and paid for that with hard work.

I was the first of my family to go to college but my parents made sacrifices and encouraged it, my wife the same.

We both worked through college to fund ourselves and took crappy jobs, lived where it was inconvenient but we could afford it.

Bought a house through scrimping and saving, build a second the same way.

I will make no apologies that under right and centre right parties it’s possible to educate yourself and succeed but you need to work and work hard amd make compromises.

My daughter is 17 and has been working part time for nearly two years, she doesn’t need to but it’s what we want, workers work,
It’s what needs to be done to succeed in life, she’s earning €18/hr flat rate

Ireland is full or people who won’t educate themselves, won’t educate their children, wont work and don’t expect their children to work, expect everything for free and yet its someone else’s fault when it all goes wrong and they haven’t a pot to piiss in and are living in the middle of gang land nobody’s

You can listen to the banana politics of the left all you want, but we’d be plunged back to the recessions of the 50’s and 70’s if they were in charge. At least with the current governments those who want to work and move forward can do so.

Yea things could be better, but they could be worse.

LeinsterDub

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

That would only benefit those living in a city/large town maybe. I (down the country) have a 30 min drive to work, if I take public transport it would take me several hours each way. Free public transport is of zero benefit to me

So the majority of people in the state? Free public transport is a benefit for you as you can enjoy a cleaner environment, less traffic on your commute, can avail of it sometimes

StupidLikeAFox

bubblypop wrote: »

Motor tax takes in a billion Euro a year in Ireland.
The cost of free public transport for all is approx 600 million.
So no need there for extra tax.
Also, a congestion charge into the city centre, different rates for different times of day.

What are you going to do when people start using public transport, get rid of the car, and the motor tax starts reducing?