Heifers coming 2 Years

gmurf100

I have CHX & LIMX heifers coming 2 years at the end of February through to mid April.
They are averaging 485kg's (weighed them at the weekend) and are on silage only, decent quality (not tested).
They are dosed but thriving slowly averaging 0.5kg / day gain since bought in June 2019.

What is the best options for these heifers;
To mart them before coming 2 year old ?
To feed them on with meal and get them to grass and sell in June ?
To feed on and factory them in August / September.?

All feedback appreciated.

kk.man

gmurf100 wrote: »

I have CHX & LIMX heifers coming 2 years at the end of February through to mid April.
They are averaging 485kg's (weighed them at the weekend) and are on silage only, decent quality (not tested).
They are dosed but thriving slowly averaging 0.5kg / day gain since bought in June 2019.

What is the best options for these heifers;
To mart them before coming 2 year old ?
To feed them on with meal and get them to grass and sell in June ?
To feed on and factory them in August / September.?

All feedback appreciated.

It's very difficult without looking at them.

I wou guess going by their ages that you should let them out when the time comes. And they would finish handy enough in late May or June when price peaks. I presume you have plenty of silage and grass. Don't feed them meal in the shed.

gmurf100

Thanks for that kk.man, ya plenty of silage, wel have to see how the grass and weather will be in mid / late March before letting them out.
Why would you suggest against meal in the shed?

kk.man

gmurf100 wrote: »

Thanks for that kk.man, ya plenty of silage, wel have to see how the grass and weather will be in mid / late March before letting them out.
Why would you suggest against meal in the shed?

You only throwing good money after bad. They will turn inside out on grass after a few weeks. The only time I ever feed meal to those type of animals is close to finishing.

gmurf100

Would it be with picking out the lightest pin and giving them meal or stay clear of meal all together?

kk.man

gmurf100 wrote: »

Would it be with picking out the lightest pin and giving them meal or stay clear of meal all together?

Again its very hard to judge without seeing the animals. You could drive on some of them but once committed you should not stop. They be fini out of the shed and never see grass or they would go back.

gmurf100

I get ya thanks. Is there anything so I could feed the lighter ones with to bring them on a bit, that would'nt affect them when turned out to grass ?

kk.man

gmurf100 wrote: »

I get ya thanks. Is there anything so I could feed the lighter ones with to bring them on a bit, that would'nt affect them when turned out to grass ?

Minerals

gmurf100

Anything in particular you would recommend?
I see a few guys on here recommending Limestone Flour, have you used this?

dohc turbo2

I wouldn’t be against giving them nuts when there not thriving , just stop a few weeks before they go to grass ,

gmurf100

Spot on doc turbo2, kk.man recommended minerals also. Would general purpose beef minerals be good enough?

dohc turbo2

gmurf100 wrote: »

Spot on doc turbo2, kk.man recommended minerals also. Would general purpose beef minerals be good enough?

My heiffers are on 1.5 kg of 19% nut and there beef mineral bucket in front of them , there flying since they were housed .

gmurf100

Did you start them straight away after being housed on the 1.5kg of nuts and the mineral bucket or did you start them later?
What age and weight are your stock?

gmurf100

doc turbo2 would you wean them back off the meal for a few weeks before stopping or just stop giving it for a few weeks before they are let out ?

_Brian

We would feed meal over the winter.
Halve it 8 weeks before turnout, none for last 4 weeks.

Always find cattle will be stagnant weight wise over winter if no meal is fed and it’s too long a period for no real growth.

dohc turbo2

_Brian wrote: »

We would feed meal over the winter.
Halve it 8 weeks before turnout, none for last 4 weeks.

Always find cattle will be stagnant weight wise over winter if no meal is fed and it’s too long a period for no real growth.

As above , there on it from housing , and stopped last few weeks for compensatory growth, I’ve two batch’s , last years and the year before , all kept for breeding , I also give them a mineral bolus at Christmas. Last years heiffers are 340 kg now

gmurf100

Definitely too long without gain Brian, thanks for your feedback.
Would you feed any minerals with the meal ?

_Brian

gmurf100 wrote: »

Definitely too long without gain Brian, thanks for your feedback.
Would you feed any minerals with the meal ?

No we bolus everything in autumn and the meal contains minerals.

We’ve dabbled with feeding straights in the past amd I fed a powdered mineral with them

If your worried you could feed a powder on the silage, but excessive minerals loosens dung and may counteract feeding.

gmurf100

Good advice Brian thanks, I will look into the powder mineral would this best best put on the silage or on the meal?

Bass Reeves

Op what were they dosed with since June and when. I would feed meal to none of tgem. They are 18 month old stores. Get them to grass as early as possible.. if you are using a paddock system they should fly on grass. General purpose beef mineral from now to turnout throw it on top of silage or on the ground they will lock it up.. Its hard to give specific advice without seeing them but I would let them on grass alone for 6-8 weeks and see then. If they are an even bunch I put on a barley hulks maize mix then for 6-8 weeks. If not an even bunch I split and start feeding the best from Kate May to early June.. But good grass and plenty of it is the key.

Cattle can sometimes fail to thrive from 20-24 months as they lose there calf teeth around then and if silage is in chopped they can struggle with it.

gmurf100

Thanks Bass Reeves are you wondering what they were dosed with?
I took a dung sample 4 weeks after being housed and it was positive from rumen look so I dosed with Zanil.
I also dosed for lice and mites 3 weeks ago as a few of them were nearly ripping the feeding barriers out of the rsj's !!!!
Dung is much tighter and far less scratching now.
Getting them to grass early is a tough one, the ground isn't always fit to turn them out early, well have to see what the next few weeks bring !!!!

tanko

What did you use for the lice?

gmurf100

tanko wrote: »

What did you use for the lice?

I used Butox pour on, found it pretty good.

DBK1

gmurf100 wrote: »

I have CHX & LIMX heifers coming 2 years at the end of February through to mid April.
They are averaging 485kg's (weighed them at the weekend) and are on silage only, decent quality (not tested).
They are dosed but thriving slowly averaging 0.5kg / day gain since bought in June 2019.

What is the best options for these heifers;
To mart them before coming 2 year old ?
To feed them on with meal and get them to grass and sell in June ?
To feed on and factory them in August / September.?

All feedback appreciated.

Are they bucket reared or suckler stock, I assuming by the weight for age they are bucket reared? I keep beef cattle and for the past few years have been regularly weighing stock over the winters. I can tell you for a fact that with them type of stock you most certainly should be feeding meal to them during the winter. The first 2 kgs of meal pays for itself so I would stick to about that rate but feed 3 kilos at the start of the winter and from now on be reducing it down to no meal for about the last 4 weeks so you’ll have fed an average of 2 kgs a day for the whole winter. Lads that say feeding meal to store cattle doesn’t pay are forgetting to put a value on their silage. To make good silage costs €25 a bale. With the reduction in silage use and the extra weight gain, the first 2kgs of meal pays for itself. Minerals and worm and fluke dosing are important as well. Like the lads said further down get them out to grass as early as you can as they are going to need a good boost to get them fit to kill before the 30 months. Give them 6 or 8 weeks at grass and you’ll have to feed a high maize ration then to get them fit to kill.

Bass Reeves

DBK1 wrote: »

Are they bucket reared or suckler stock, I assuming by the weight for age they are bucket reared? I keep beef cattle and for the past few years have been regularly weighing stock over the winters. I can tell you for a fact that with them type of stock you most certainly should be feeding meal to them during the winter. The first 2 kgs of meal pays for itself so I would stick to about that rate but feed 3 kilos at the start of the winter and from now on be reducing it down to no meal for about the last 4 weeks so you’ll have fed an average of 2 kgs a day for the whole winter. Lads that say feeding meal to store cattle doesn’t pay are forgetting to put a value on their silage. To make good silage costs €25 a bale. With the reduction in silage use and the extra weight gain, the first 2kgs of meal pays for itself. Minerals and worm and fluke dosing are important as well. Like the lads said further down get them out to grass as early as you can as they are going to need a good boost to get them fit to kill before the 30 months. Give them 6 or 8 weeks at grass and you’ll have to feed a high maize ration then to get them fit to kill.

At best meal feeding stores is break even. Assuming a conversation rate of 8-1 with 2kgs you will achieve 250 grams of LW. Converting that to DW at s 55%KO gives 0.1375grams of DW worth 55c at 4/kg. In this assumption we are assuming on the silage that the ration is replacing there is no weight gain.

While there may have been a marginal gain if meal fed from start of the winter there is no real value in starting feeding meal now. On going to grass compensatory growth will balance any ration fed now. The only difference between meal feeding for the winter and not is that you are giving Larry an extra 16kgs DW that there is very little or no margin in for you

Bass Reeves

gmurf100 wrote: »

Thanks Bass Reeves are you wondering what they were dosed with?
I took a dung sample 4 weeks after being housed and it was positive from rumen look so I dosed with Zanil.
I also dosed for lice and mites 3 weeks ago as a few of them were nearly ripping the feeding barriers out of the rsj's !!!!
Dung is much tighter and far less scratching now.
Getting them to grass early is a tough one, the ground isn't always fit to turn them out early, well have to see what the next few weeks bring !!!!

If the dung is very tight then your silage may be very poor quality. I suspect that these cattle may need a second dose. In general Zanil only kills adult fluke and not immature or early immature. Zanil can also give a poor worm kill as there is know resistance to it. Dosing at 5-6eeks after housing will leave immature fluke in there system. If they were mine I give them an injection of an ivermecting super such as Bimectin plus.

Rumen fluke even if present may not be an issue to cattle however liver fluke are usually much more if an issue

gmurf100

DBK1 wrote: »

Are they bucket reared or suckler stock, I assuming by the weight for age they are bucket reared? I keep beef cattle and for the past few years have been regularly weighing stock over the winters. I can tell you for a fact that with them type of stock you most certainly should be feeding meal to them during the winter. The first 2 kgs of meal pays for itself so I would stick to about that rate but feed 3 kilos at the start of the winter and from now on be reducing it down to no meal for about the last 4 weeks so you’ll have fed an average of 2 kgs a day for the whole winter. Lads that say feeding meal to store cattle doesn’t pay are forgetting to put a value on their silage. To make good silage costs €25 a bale. With the reduction in silage use and the extra weight gain, the first 2kgs of meal pays for itself. Minerals and worm and fluke dosing are important as well. Like the lads said further down get them out to grass as early as you can as they are going to need a good boost to get them fit to kill before the 30 months. Give them 6 or 8 weeks at grass and you’ll have to feed a high maize ration then to get them fit to kill.

They are actual suckler bread, some of them are 550/560kg’s these will be 2 at the end of Feb some are 460/480kg’s these will be 2 in April and the rest are around 420/430kg’s and these will be 2 in June. All together the are averaging 480kg ish. I suppose the excess meal at the start would reduce the intake of silage alright. I know I have left it late starting meal, just time got away with work etc. I would like to get a bit better condition on them before moving on in June, am I being realistic?

gmurf100

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If the dung is very tight then your silage may be very poor quality. I suspect that these cattle may need a second dose. In general Zanil only kills adult fluke and not immature or early immature. Zanil can also give a poor worm kill as there is know resistance to it. Dosing at 5-6eeks after housing will leave immature fluke in there system. If they were mine I give them an injection of an ivermecting super such as Bimectin plus.

Rumen fluke even if present may not be an issue to cattle however liver fluke are usually much more if an issue

I took random samples from three pins and got them tested and there was no sign of liver fluke, I suppose that’s not to say they don’t have it now. Will Bimectin kill both rumen fluke and liver fluke?

Bass Reeves

gmurf100 wrote: »

I took random samples from three pins and got them tested and there was no sign of liver fluke, I suppose that’s not to say they don’t have it now. Will Bimectin kill both rumen fluke and liver fluke?

No and it Bimectin plus you need to kill liver fluke and again it is only from the 10week stage on.

You should start to split out the end of February heifer's in late April/early May and start feeding them to finish in June, star feeding the April born heifers in June and the later heifers in late July/August. Maize/Barley/hulls mix and they should be well finished after 6-8 weeks feeding

squinn2912

Keep this post live it would be interesting to see how they go. The guys advocating removing the meal would you advise that for younger stock? We have more weanlings from last year than stores as most of them are for breeding and getting no meal. Stores getting 1.5 kg and weanlings and calves on one suck a day getting 2kgs. I’d always give them cattle meal all winter

DBK1

gmurf100 wrote: »

They are actual suckler bread, some of them are 550/560kg’s these will be 2 at the end of Feb some are 460/480kg’s these will be 2 in April and the rest are around 420/430kg’s and these will be 2 in June. All together the are averaging 480kg ish. I suppose the excess meal at the start would reduce the intake of silage alright. I know I have left it late starting meal, just time got away with work etc. I would like to get a bit better condition on them before moving on in June, am I being realistic?

Yes apologies, I missed the part in your post where you said they only gained 0.5 kgs per day since you bought them last June so they were probably averaging about 380 kilos when you bought them. There is definitely something causing a problem at that weight gain. If they were just off cows when you bought them you would expect them to go back a bit before starting to grow again but they should be doing a lot better than they are. You would expect them to have done 0.7/0.8 kilos a day on grass last summer so that would leave your winter weight gain at only 0.25 or 0.3 kilos a day and that’s definitely not paying you.

I don’t know what your system is or if you normally finish stock or sell as stores? At the weight they are now for their age you could be better off selling as stores, there’s good money being made for stores at the minute in the mart. They will take a fair bit of feeding to have fit for killing and it may not pay you to do it

II know you said your silage is good but not tested. Would you consider getting it tested to see what the feed value is, it only costs about the price of 1 bale of silage and at least you know what you have. Silage can look good and smell good but still have a poor feed value, it depends on how the grass was before cutting.

I know it is probably too late for meal feeding now but at least you’d be better set up for next year if you can solve this years problems.