NCT discontinue lift inspections (now with places with working lifts)

mgbgt1978

greasepalm wrote: »

The point is safety first as its unusable they cant risk it, and cars are like people going into the hospital and getting rejected.

The point is that neither the NCT, the Dept of Transport, or the Gardai have not come up with a reasonable interim solution.
There are many (easily introduced) temporary solutions to this issue....but none of the bodies involved have bothered their hole to do anything to assist the thousands of affected motorists.

greasepalm

Probably called passing the buck as not my job!

blackbox

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

The point is that neither the NCT, the Dept of Transport, or the Gardai have not come up with a reasonable interim solution.
There are many (easily introduced) temporary solutions to this issue....but none of the bodies involved have bothered their hole to do anything to assist the thousands of affected motorists.

Because the requirement to have a valid NCT is enshrined in law, emergency legislation or at least a ministerial order is required to temporarily nullify this.

This cannot be resolved by Gardai, NCT (Applus) or RSA.

FishOnABike

blackbox wrote: »

Because the requirement to have a valid NCT is enshrined in law, emergency legislation or at least a ministerial order is required to temporarily nullify this.

This cannot be resolved by Gardai, NCT or RSA.

And our minister has done absolutely nothing about it. It is a shocking display of indifference or incompetence. The NI Infrastructure Committee could put temporary measures in place within a few days, extending their MOT by four months. Weeks later our minister has done nothing!

greasepalm

We got rid of our minister of transport,so a longer wait entails.

FishOnABike

greasepalm wrote: »

We got rid of our minister of transport,so a longer wait entails.

Not quite yet. AFAIK until a new government is formed and a new minister appointed, Shane Ross remains Minister for Transport, Sport and Tourism.

Under Article 28 of the Constitution, the Taoiseach and the government continue to hold office – and to discharge their duties as Ministers – until a new government is appointed. They will become a “caretaker government”

L1011

^ and we have prior proof that a Minister who loses their seat is still Minister until a new one is appointed. Reilly and White in 2016.

RandomViewer

I'm thinking that APPLUS should pay for a hire car for every person whose car has run out of test ,

Charlie 22

Got it fully done in cork little island yesterday. 3/4 lifts are operational. All underbody inspections are being done that I saw by sharing the 3 lifts between the 4 lanes. Also was the shortest time I can remember actually doing the test less than 20mins

barneygumble99

RandomViewer wrote: »

I'm thinking that APPLUS should pay for a hire car for every person whose car has run out of test ,

Agree, should also throw in a weekend away in ashford castle for the inconvenience!!!!!!!!

silver2020

blackbox wrote: »

Because the requirement to have a valid NCT is enshrined in law, emergency legislation or at least a ministerial order is required to temporarily nullify this.

This cannot be resolved by Gardai, NCT (Applus) or RSA.

yes it can as the Gardai and RSA (and the courts) have basic common sense.

This "catastrophe syndrome" that some posts are talking about is utter BS.

No garda will issue a ticket if you have the test sheet showing you have completed the NCT and just the underbody has not been done.

No insurance company will nullify a policy for the same reason and no court will convict anyone for that same reason.

So get over yourselves and your "poor me" attitudes - things go wrong in the real world and this is a minor little inconvenience.

And yes it affects me - I have just bought a new car and the old one is sitting in the drive as I can't sell it without a new NCT.

CiniO

silver2020 wrote: »

yes it can as the Gardai and RSA (and the courts) have basic common sense.

This "catastrophe syndrome" that some posts are talking about is utter BS.

No garda will issue a ticket if you have the test sheet showing you have completed the NCT and just the underbody has not been done.

No insurance company will nullify a policy for the same reason and no court will convict anyone for that same reason.

So get over yourselves and your "poor me" attitudes - things go wrong in the real world and this is a minor little inconvenience.

And yes it affects me - I have just bought a new car and the old one is sitting in the drive as I can't sell it without a new NCT.

It's not utter BS.
We're in the position where vehicle testing is legally required in this country and on top of that such requirement is obligatory by EU directive.
Our government decided to contract only one operator for NCT tests for the whole country, and now once this operator has failed, there's no way to have anyones vehicle tested.
Yes - gardai will be understanding and won't issue ticket.
Courts very likely will be understanding as well.
I'm not so sure about insurance companies, but if they fail to cooperate, then courts might help in case insurer refuses to pay for claims.

But what about other scenarios. Cars that need valid NCT right now - fe. those traveling abroad...
Do you think German polizei once they pull you over on auttobahn will believe your story that you don't have valid roadworthiness test because no one in your whole country is able to obtain one presently ?

What we have now with NCT is a ridiculous situation which should have never happened.

blackbox

silver2020 wrote: »

yes it can as the Gardai and RSA (and the courts) have basic common sense.

This "catastrophe syndrome" that some posts are talking about is utter BS.

No garda will issue a ticket if you have the test sheet showing you have completed the NCT and just the underbody has not been done.

.

It should not be up to the Gardai to decide which laws are important.

This is may be a solution, but it is a bad solution.

What if a Guard decides it is ok to go through a red light, as long as it is only a second late? Or if it's ok to beat a gay person?

Where do you draw the line?

Emmersonn

Daughter just rang to arrange underbody test at Little Island and she was told that taxis are being prioritised and no slots are available for retest until late next week at the earliest.

RobbieMD

blackbox wrote: »

It should not be up to the Gardai to decide which laws are important.

This is may be a solution, but it is a bad solution.

What if a Guard decides it is ok to go through a red light, as long as it is only a second late? Or if it's ok to beat a gay person?

Where do you draw the line?

The Gardai use discretion everyday. It’s not possible for them to prosecute every single offence they observe. The courts would be maxed beyond capacity if they did.

silver2020

blackbox wrote: »

It should not be up to the Gardai to decide which laws are important.

This is may be a solution, but it is a bad solution.

What if a Guard decides it is ok to go through a red light, as long as it is only a second late? Or if it's ok to beat a gay person?

Where do you draw the line?

I said common sense would prevail. And most police forces use common sense.

After all both they and we are human.



And despite the scaremongering by certain posters here, I've yet to see one person claim that they have been ticketed for not having a valid NCT cert when they have the fail due to underbody test not being carried our sheet with them. - I was waved on at a checkpoint on Tuesday despite the nct being out by a week.

silver2020

CiniO wrote: »

Cars that need valid NCT right now - fe. those traveling abroad...
Do you think German polizei once they pull you over on auttobahn will believe your story that you don't have valid roadworthiness test because no one in your whole country is able to obtain one presently ?

What we have now with NCT is a ridiculous situation which should have never happened.

again, pure scaremongering.

I didn't know that an Irish NCT was required to drive in Germany.Maybe their laws changed yesterday and I wasn't made aware of it.

Insurance companies have stated that it will not affect any claims but that the road worthiness of the vehicle is your responsibility. eg, if you have bald tyres, a NCT cert or not will not make a difference.

Pure scaremongering BS

CiniO

silver2020 wrote: »

again, pure scaremongering.

I didn't know that an Irish NCT was required to drive in Germany.Maybe their laws changed yesterday and I wasn't made aware of it.

I

You didn't know?

So how you imagined - that you could take unroadworthy unNCTed car and drive it through Europe back and forth and there were no laws in other countries which would require you to have valid roadworthiness test on your car ?

Of course that NCT is required on Irish registered vehicle when driving abroad.

barneygumble99

Brand new lift in Waterford this morning.

silver2020

CiniO wrote: »

You didn't know?

So how you imagined - that you could take unroadworthy unNCTed car and drive it through Europe back and forth and there were no laws in other countries which would require you to have valid roadworthiness test on your car ?

Of course that NCT is required on Irish registered vehicle when driving abroad.

Can you show me the regulation? - there is none.

You can have a NCT cert and the car can be unroadworthy.

You can't drive an unroadworthy car anywhere. NCT cert or no NCT cert

You could get an NCT test cert today and your brake lights could go tomorrow - surely you are not saying that the car is then fine for driving because a piece of paper says so?

As i said, you are scaremongering.

FishOnABike

silver2020 wrote: »

again, pure scaremongering.

I didn't know that an Irish NCT was required to drive in Germany.Maybe their laws changed yesterday and I wasn't made aware of it.

Insurance companies have stated that it will not affect any claims but that the road worthiness of the vehicle is your responsibility. eg, if you have bald tyres, a NCT cert or not will not make a difference.

Pure scaremongering BS

A vehicle needs to be road legal in it's home country to be road legal in another EU country. The requirement for a valid test certificate is common across the EU. I wouldn't be too confident about convincing a foreign police officer 'arra, sure tis grand like, sure our own aren't too bothered with it. '

The minister could have put a temporary solution in place with the stroke of a pen but couldn't be bothered. The NI Infrastructure Committee could address the issue within a few days. Our government and the responsible minister have shown themselves to be either indifferent or incompetent or both.

RandomViewer

barneygumble99 wrote: »

Agree, should also throw in a weekend away in ashford castle for the inconvenience!!!!!!!!

They've taken my money,they can't give me a cert . I can't cross the border in an untested car so a hire car would look like the only option.
How long until car sales are hit when garages can't get second hand cars NCTed?

ciaran76

FionnK86 wrote: »

Rang there & he said lifts weren’t back working in Northside 1 or 2 and to ring back Friday this time.

I did a test there yesterday in Northpoint 2 and lifts were working.

RandomViewer

RSA should be pulling the contract now. APPLUS unfit for purpose

silver2020

RandomViewer wrote: »

RSA should be pulling the contract now. APPLUS unfit for purpose

can you explain your statement.

APPPLUS don't make the lifts. MAHA of Germany do.

RandomViewer

silver2020 wrote: »

can you explain your statement.

APPPLUS don't make the lifts. MAHA of Germany do.

2 weeks now, MAHAor their agents will have lifts in stock, APPLUS very slow on ordering /replacing which I suspect is because they were hoping RSA would pay for them.
Before this when you called to book an NCT phone was answered after 2 rings and helpful person could arrange test straight away. Now the phone rings out or not at at all, if your lucky you'll finally get to talk to an Indian gentleman who'll offer to transfer your call to customer services, this will ring and ring until an automated message says they are busy and then loops around again. Handled badly ,needs to be sanctions of some kind

CiniO

silver2020 wrote: »

Can you show me the regulation? - there is none.

Every country requires foreign visiting cars to have valid roadworthiness cert.

You can have a NCT cert and the car can be unroadworthy.

You can't drive an unroadworthy car anywhere. NCT cert or no NCT cert

You could get an NCT test cert today and your brake lights could go tomorrow - surely you are not saying that the car is then fine for driving because a piece of paper says so?

I agree that roadwortingess is different thing to valid roadworthiness test cert.
But it has no effect on requirement to have this cert while drivin abroad.

dkd21

I know one individual that is driving on the continent at the moment and he received a priority test last week the next day after calling and explaining his situation to the call centre ...

barneygumble99

RandomViewer wrote: »

2 weeks now, MAHAor their agents will have lifts in stock, APPLUS very slow on ordering /replacing which I suspect is because they were hoping RSA would pay for them.
Before this when you called to book an NCT phone was answered after 2 rings and helpful person could arrange test straight away. Now the phone rings out or not at at all, if your lucky you'll finally get to talk to an Indian gentleman who'll offer to transfer your call to customer services, this will ring and ring until an automated message says they are busy and then loops around again. Handled badly ,needs to be sanctions of some kind

In all my years ringing nct I have yet to speak to someone with a foreign accent. The whole country is looking for lifts, north and south, the lifts would be installed if they were readily available.

RandomViewer

barneygumble99 wrote: »

In all my years ringing nct I have yet to speak to someone with a foreign accent. The whole country is looking for lifts, north and south, the lifts would be installed if they were readily available.

First time i heard one as well, got the notion theyd outsourced rather than answer themselves

creedp

barneygumble99 wrote: »

In all my years ringing nct I have yet to speak to someone with a foreign accent. The whole country is looking for lifts, north and south, the lifts would be installed if they were readily available.

In fairness they are taking appointments to test cars and charging people the full test fee even though they cant actually deliver the service they are charging for! I'm hoping this ridiculous treatment of paying customers doesn't spread to other providers. Imagine if you went into your local tyre provider and was charged the full cost of fitting 4 new tyres, handed a note to confirm that you has indeed bought new tyres but told to come back in a few weeks to have them fitted as all the operators were on holidays .. seriously ...

FionnK86

FionnK86 wrote: »

I had mine Northside Saturday, rang Monday and told to ring back Wednesday week.

Rang now & booked in Ballymun for 29/2 at 12 with option for Wednesday 26 but didn’t take it.

degsie

Don't know what the issue is with supply of lifts. They are available on eBay ffs..

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-Post-Car-Lift-4ton-Vehicle-Lift-Garage-Workshop-Ramp-Ultimate-Jack/153056158910

FishOnABike

degsie wrote: »

Don't know what the issue is with supply of lifts. They are available on eBay ffs..

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-Post-Car-Lift-4ton-Vehicle-Lift-Garage-Workshop-Ramp-Ultimate-Jack/153056158910

The lifts in the NCTS centres are a good bit more substantial than that.

Something like 96% of the lifts in Northern Ireland test centres were found to have cracks. If the defect rate is the same down here the NCTS will have to repair or replace almost all of their lifts.

I don't know if all test centres are the same size but that indicates there are somewhere around 200 lifts that would need to be repaired or replaced in NCTS centres alone.

Some lifts would have been due for replacement later this year anyway but the problems here, in NI and possibly elsewhere must be having some effect on the supply pipeline. Some statement from the NCTS, other than wait and see, would be helpful.

kerryjack

creedp wrote: »

In fairness they are taking appointments to test cars and charging people the full test fee even though they cant actually deliver the service they are charging for! I'm hoping this ridiculous treatment of paying customers doesn't spread to other providers. Imagine if you went into your local tyre provider and was charged the full cost of fitting 4 new tyres, handed a note to confirm that you has indeed bought new tyres but told to come back in a few weeks to have them fitted as all the operators were on holidays .. seriously ...

Ya can you imagine if you went in for a hair cut and charged for a full hair cut and they only done the sides and told they can't do the top because the lift on chair is broken and ring next week and see has it been fixed.

beauf

kerryjack wrote: »

Ya can you imagine if you went in for a hair cut and charged for a full hair cut and they only done the sides and told they can't do the top because the lift on chair is broken and ring next week and see has it been fixed.

More accurate that you can't ring. You have to keep making appointments and turning up and being turned away until you get lucky.

FishOnABike

Updates in the media
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/85-of-countrys-106-nct-vehicle-lifts-found-to-be-in-need-of-repair-981864.html
and on the NCTS website
https://www.ncts.ie/1115

Eight lifts were approved to continue testing last week and 13 new lifts have been delivered and replaced defective lifts this week.

An action plan has been agreed with the lift manufacturer which will see lifts identified with defects repaired and brought back into service between now and the end of April. It is expected that 50% of test lanes will be operating by the end of March, with 100% of lifts returned to use by the end of April.

So by May they should be back to 100% capacity and with extra testers recruited and extended operating hours, be working through the backlog that has built up over the previous three months.

RandomViewer

FishOnABike wrote: »

The lifts in the NCTS centres are a good bit more substantial than that.

Something like 96% of the lifts in Northern Ireland test centres were found to have cracks. If the defect rate is the same down here the NCTS will have to repair or replace almost all of their lifts.

I don't know if all test centres are the same size but that indicates there are somewhere around 200 lifts that would need to be repaired or replaced in NCTS centres alone.

Some lifts would have been due for replacement later this year anyway but the problems here, in NI and possibly elsewhere must be having some effect on the supply pipeline. Some statement from the NCTS, other than wait and see, would be helpful.

Some have only one lift ,some have more, seems to becbasefd on the unit size rather than any throughput requirment

Tea drinker

3rd world stuff, business can't or won't maintain it's equipment, makes it the customers problem.
Down in Deansgrange today I almost blew for having my time wasted.
Imagine booking a painter to come to your house and he shows up, paints the walls half way up and presents you with a bill.
But the walls are only painted half way up, when are you finishing it?
"I dunno, ring me, I'll see when it suits me."

And the RSA is advising people to go! Actually pandering to the dispute and having potentially unsafe cars on the road!
Just close the centre until it's fit for purpose, stop "Irishing" it and papering over the cracks.

swarlb

Tea drinker wrote: »

3rd world stuff, business can't or won't maintain it's equipment, makes it the customers problem.
Down in Deansgrange today I almost blew for having my time wasted.
Imagine booking a painter to come to your house and he shows up, paints the walls half way up and presents you with a bill.
But the walls are only painted half way up, when are you finishing it?
"I dunno, ring me, I'll see when it suits me."

And the RSA is advising people to go! Actually pandering to the dispute and having potentially unsafe cars on the road!
Just close the centre until it's fit for purpose, stop "Irishing" it and papering over the cracks.

'3rd World Stuff'
Would you ever cop on to yourself.... have a read and see exactly what that means.
Unsafe cars on the road nonsense.... did you actually worry or care about the 'unsafe' cars driving around, with no NCT's, or fake NCT's prior to this happening.

Oh, and by the way, plenty of people have happily paid plumbers, painters, electricians, tarmac layers... etc for shoddy, or half finished work... it happens on a daily basis.... all the time, year in, year out....

User1998

Tea drinker wrote: »

3rd world stuff, business can't or won't maintain it's equipment, makes it the customers problem.
Down in Deansgrange today I almost blew for having my time wasted.
Imagine booking a painter to come to your house and he shows up, paints the walls half way up and presents you with a bill.
But the walls are only painted half way up, when are you finishing it?
"I dunno, ring me, I'll see when it suits me."

And the RSA is advising people to go! Actually pandering to the dispute and having potentially unsafe cars on the road!
Just close the centre until it's fit for purpose, stop "Irishing" it and papering over the cracks.

But what if the painter told you beforehand that he could only paint half the wall, and told you he wasn’t sure when he could complete the work, and had it on his website and all over the internet that he can only paint half the wall, but you went ahead with it anyway and then complained about it

Tea drinker

swarlb wrote: »

'3rd World Stuff'
Would you ever cop on to yourself.... have a read and see exactly what that means.
Unsafe cars on the road nonsense.... did you actually worry or care about the 'unsafe' cars driving around, with no NCT's, or fake NCT's prior to this happening.

Oh, and by the way, plenty of people have happily paid plumbers, painters, electricians, tarmac layers... etc for shoddy, or half finished work... it happens on a daily basis.... all the time, year in, year out....

Ha ha ha if they aren't checking the underbody and suspension it is VERY VERY unsafe - if suspenion fails it's potentially catastrophic. Two friends of mine were rammed after suspension failure on an oncoming car, both seriously injured.
Absolutely 3rd world stuff and again you keep on saying that it needs to be "Irished" and it's normal to half arse jobs - sure be grand!
maybe in your professional life and at home it's the norm. I don't have that luxury. And actually in this case you don't either, it's other people's safety here you are talking about, do whatever you want yourself, but don't involve others.

silver2020

Tea drinker wrote: »

3rd world stuff, business can't or won't maintain it's equipment, makes it the customers problem.
Down in Deansgrange today I almost blew for having my time wasted.

Anger management issues? Blow up at staff of a company due to an issue beyond their control? Good boy.

Suppose you also blow up at retail staff or restaurant staff is something is not to your liking.

If you were bothered to read about the issue you would know that a full service and inspection regime was in place undertaken by a third party. The cracks in the equipment were not noticeable unless you knew what you were looking for - once identified by the 3rd party inspection, lift were taken out of service.

3rd world stuff would be allowing equipment to be used knowing there was a dangerous fault.

Tea drinker wrote: »

Ha ha ha if they aren't checking the underbody and suspension it is VERY VERY unsafe - if suspenion fails it's potentially catastrophic. Two friends of mine were rammed after suspension failure on an oncoming car, both seriously injured.

can you give details of this incident - I'll guess it the usual catastrophe syndrome made up BS

Tea drinker

silver2020 wrote: »

Anger management issues? Blow up at staff of a company due to an issue beyond their control? Good boy.

Suppose you also blow up at retail staff or restaurant staff is something is not to your liking.

If you were bothered to read about the issue you would know that a full service and inspection regime was in place undertaken by a third party. The cracks in the equipment were not noticeable unless you knew what you were looking for - once identified by the 3rd party inspection, lift were taken out of service.

3rd world stuff would be allowing equipment to be used knowing there was a dangerous fault.


can you give details of this incident - I'll guess it the usual catastrophe syndrome made up BS

Keep the excuses coming pal! Way to run a business, if they didn't have a government contract there would be no business! Lift maintenance and inspections were surely carried out by people "who knew what they were looking for" ?
Actually you are encouraging use of untested cars, and the people who have the government contract and "would know what to look for" are refusing to do so, for a month now?

If you don't (or pretend you don't) understand car safety and suspension in particular, why comment? My comment can be taken on the face of it by anyone who understands

So in terms of comms I had on this
No text
No email
No mention by staff on checking in

On the contrary I did receive a text and email confirming my appointment.

Newspapers last week said lifts were being returned to service.
Keep telling me that I'm the bad guy I LOVE IT! :pac:

beauf

The system still allows me to book retests knowing that there is no lift available at the center to do the retest. I've been able to do that multiple times trying to find one with a working lift. Which is guesswork.

Fingers Mcginty

Supposedly 8 lifts are back in operation. Anyone know where? Info isn't on the website.

mgbgt1978

It is....

TrailerBob

I'm not watching this thread anymore from now.. but the hysteria over this is incredible... There were people demanding to know how it would be dealt with 5 minutes after the issue came to light.. there are people who are convinced that delaying their NCT by a couple of weeks will make their car suddenly catastrophically unsafe... (I fear for the understanding of maintenance here) and there are those who will lash out at the poor chaps in the NCT centre.. who get too much crap as it is...

Do I like the NCT in it's current form.. not really, but it's a lot better than what exists in many places

silver2020

Tea drinker wrote: »

Keep the excuses coming pal! Way to run a business, if they didn't have a government contract there would be no business! Lift maintenance and inspections were surely carried out by people "who knew what they were looking for" ?
Actually you are encouraging use of untested cars, and the people who have the government contract and "would know what to look for" are refusing to do so, for a month now?

If you don't (or pretend you don't) understand car safety and suspension in particular, why comment? My comment can be taken on the face of it by anyone who understands

So in terms of comms I had on this
No text
No email
No mention by staff on checking in

On the contrary I did receive a text and email confirming my appointment.

Newspapers last week said lifts were being returned to service.
Keep telling me that I'm the bad guy I LOVE IT! :pac:

pity you have the inability to read the newspapers or listen to radio or read their website. It states quite clearly that a small number of lifts are back working and priority is given to the motor trade and taxis. Maybe you didn't read past the first line?

Until the hairline crack was noticed in a lift in Northern Ireland last Nov, it had not been seen by anyone. It was initially thought to be safe to use until 20th January last when an independent insurance safety inspector deemed it unsafe and recommended that all lifts of this model not be used until,full safety audit undertaken

If you need to wait until an NCT test to find issues with your suspension, i advise you to understand that a car needs to be serviced regularly by a competent mechanic.



Maybe you would prefer an employee of an NCT centre be seriously injured or killed just so that you can get your suspension inspected an avoid having a competent mechanic service your car before such a test - that's effectively what you are looking to do.

kerryjack

Don't take it out on the guys on the ground, there only working lads like the rest of us. They look grumpy enough but they weren't always like that, its years of dealing with the public that made them like that.