Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

delly

I liked Ep1, but felt this was not as gripping with a lot of exposition and techno talk. I find the background music a little overbearing in a lot of scenes and the shots of a lot of the interactions betweens characters are too tight, with a lot of rigidity.

Stark

Mixed bag episode.

I like Orla Brady, in some ways her performance reminds me of the kinds of performances Michelle Gomez gives. The technobabble stuff was a bit much though. Again, I think it comes down to only having a 10 episode run and having to rush through certain pieces of the storyline.

The Commodore was a terrible actress and her lieutenant accomplice wasn't much better. The whole scene felt like their bodies were frozen and only their mouths were allowed move.

The dissection of the Borg scene I thought was great and I think undid some of the damage Voyager/First Contact did to the Borg. Really brought back home the violations inflicted on the misfortunate individuals who found themselves part of the Borg Collective.

I liked the "do you not know who I am scene" followed by having to slap on the ridiculous looking Starfleet "visitor" badge. Seemed like the young cadet knew exactly who he was but was under orders to make him go through the full sign-in process to take him down a peg.

velo.2010 wrote: »

This is what I suspect and is the ultimate example of the SPECTRE like, retconning bull**** that I mentioned above. Its implied that the Romulans gave up on the technology that helped them develop what would ultimately become... the Borg. The Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant and developed over thousands of years and nothing in Trek's history has indicated otherwise. A look at the 'Star Trek universe' map puts the Romulans as far away from Borg space as can be. There could be a swerve as its early yet - we may find out that the Federation were somehow involved too. I don't know but it doesn't bode well that they pulling a lot of narrative strokes to push the story forward.

Hopefully it's just the fans over-interpreting things. We had the same with Discovery and fans everywhere speculating that "Control" was the origin of the Borg and it turned out to be nothing in the end (thankfully).

But I definitely think the Romulans had encounters with the Borg before the Federation encountered them. Maybe even as far back as soon after the TOS era.

Might explain species 180...

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Might explain species 180...

True, how else could the Ferengi have made contact, something very unusual must have happened.

TheValeyard

Stark wrote: »

Hopefully it's just the fans over-interpreting things. We had the same with Discovery and fans everywhere speculating that "Control" was the origin of the Borg and it turned out to be nothing in the end (thankfully).

But I definitely think the Romulans had encounters with the Borg before the Federation encountered them. Maybe even as far back as soon after the TOS era.

We have definitely not seen the last of Control. And connections may yet be made.

They seem to be taking some of their ideas from Star Trek Online. The Romulans there were experimenting on Borg tech. Also the game had the Romulan Republic (Free State). While whats left of the empire was secretly under the influence of the Iconians.

silverharp

what was the weird editing with the seamless conversation switching between 2 locations , not a great episode overall , it was kind of funny though they should have called the epidose women shouting at Picard

Rawr

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nah can't see it to be honest - but that said, remember that when the Romulans first returned in TNG, they explained that other more urgent matters demanded their absence.

It's generally thought that this meant the Borg (who were expected to be introduced a lot earlier than they were). It's very possible that the Cube in this new show dates from that time or just that they've had a lot more time and experience with Borg tech than probably anyone bar Picard, Seven and the Voyager crew.

My crazy earlier theory about "TNG:The Neutral Zone" is still feeling like it might be on the money.

So, the Romulans now have a ancient / near-religious hatred for artificial life. If they've been fighting back the Borg for many years, that might explain why they feel this way They also seem to know an awful lot about how a Borg Cube breaks away from the Collective (although that could be new knowledge.)

Liked Episode 2. The absense of Dahj kind of helped (her appearances in Ep1 were kind of a low point). However as Dr. Soji, the actress was a good bit better.

I did enjoy the whole Mars sequence and the budget Data-clones were suitably creepy. Some aspects of the Borg Cube did kind of remind me a little of how dangerous the Borg used to be back in the TNG days. Let's hope they don't pull a Voyager in all of this and neuter the Borg again.

I was alas a little bored with the whole cloak and dagger stuff at Starfleet.
"Oh no...the Commorde is probably a Romulan pretending to be Vulcan"
"Oh no...that Lieutenant is a Romulan disguised as a Human"
"On no...something something something...don't get in my way or else...."

It just felt kind of flat and boring. I hope there's going to more intersting elements to the plot going ahead.

Looks like we're meeting the first member of Picard's new crew now...so far she seems interesting, might be good.

i enjoyed it, didn't think it was as good as ep 1 but still good.

i didn't see any trailers or ads people were referring to, maybe it helped
i like orla brady

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

We have definitely not seen the last of Control. And connections may yet be made.

They seem to be taking some of their ideas from Star Trek Online. The Romulans there were experimenting on Borg tech. Also the game had the Romulan Republic (Free State). While whats left of the empire was secretly under the influence of the Iconians.

The Romulans shown to have been working, with Romulan Tech in Trek 2009.
The Nerada, which comes from Picard's timeline, was augmented with Borg tech. It started as a simple mining ship

The White Wolf

I've tried the first two episodes with an open mind; first episode was OK but this one was awful.

Kurtzman really is a hack, putting aside Star Trek for a moment what he did with The Mummy should tell you everything you need to know about him.

FutureGuy

Rewatched the second episode last night and enjoyed it more the second time around.

silverharp

The White Wolf wrote: »

I've tried the first two episodes with an open mind; first episode was OK but this one was awful.

Kurtzman really is a hack, putting aside Star Trek for a moment what he did with The Mummy should tell you everything you need to know about him.

They had the cheek to put the line in about not getting sifi. We hear you klutzman

pah

silverharp wrote: »

They had the cheek to put the line in about not getting sifi. We hear you klutzman

I was waiting for Picard to say he was always a fan of Star Wars though :rolleyes:

pixelburp

I thought it was a very typical second episode of a serialised show: the intrigue was expanded, we met a couple of new characters and the plot only shuffles along. It was fine, in the hot afterglow of the punchy opener it was likely to flatline a little, having to pull more narrative weight than the premiere episode.

The argument between the admiral and Picard could have done with a little expanding because honestly, I'm kinda with the Fed here. The Romulans were a hostile race, and not exactly honourable allies during the Dominion war. I'd imagine a lot of border systems were looking over their shoulders because of them (correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they openly invade space during the Dominion conflict?), so crisis or not, expending resources to save that world/system was not a politically sensitive move. Picard came across stubborn and unilateral, easy to be the idealist from the sidelines without dealing with revolt from allied worlds.

The Borg stuff also added a little bit of threat and mystery back to them. The small moments of gore a suitable reminder of the actual horror of the concept. There's going to be an "outbreak" though, right? Rogue units trying to re-establish the collective. There HAS to be - that "X days since last assimilation" could never be a simple visual nod, and must be Checkovs Signage.

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

The Borg stuff also added a little bit of threat and mystery back to them. The small moments of gore a suitable reminder of the actual horror of the concept. There's going to be an "outbreak" though, right? Rogue units trying to re-establish the collective. There HAS to be - that "X days since last assimilation" could never be a simple visual nod, and must be Checkovs Signage.

That was a bit I actually enjoyed a good bit and did genuinely feel like the old Borg I loved and well...feared.

There was a bit where Dr. Soji was helping out remove the "equipment-arm" from a drone. Then, while a "heart-beat" was being played, she started messing about with the drone's "normal" arm. All could think was: "ASSIMILATION TUBULAS!! Get the F*** away from that you IDIOT!! Get out!! Get out now!!"

It's been a while since I felt that about a Borg moment. It's good that they can see make them fearful.

Slydice

Eh... maybe not..

https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/1224075015437504512

pixelburp

There's not enough money (or gold pressed latinum) in the world that'd drag me there.

TheIrishGrover

Stark

Oh I dunno. I've heard it's full of hot Romulans looking to seduce you.

Goodshape

Enjoyed it more on a second viewing!

pixelburp wrote: »

The argument between the admiral and Picard could have done with a little expanding because honestly, I'm kinda with the Fed here. The Romulans were a hostile race, and not exactly honourable allies during the Dominion war. I'd imagine a lot of border systems were looking over their shoulders because of them (correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they openly invade space during the Dominion conflict?), so crisis or not, expending resources to save that world/system was not a politically sensitive move. Picard came across stubborn and unilateral, easy to be the idealist from the sidelines without dealing with revolt from allied worlds.

Could definitely see her point of view. Could also see, in a utopian Star Trek: TNG sort of way, how Picard arrived at his decisions.

silverharp

The tech is getting stupid at this stage , how can you have a device that essentially can go back in time to see what people might have been doing there in the past, the idea that people leave enough traces that you can reconstruct them and their conversations is just dumb, its basically magic. Then in the first episode, how could you wan jump up over what was several flights of stairs, isn’t she supposed to be a positronic brain in a human body, even Data could not have done 5% of that.

AMKC

silverharp wrote: »

The tech is getting stupid at this stage , how can you have a device that essentially can go back in time to see what people might have been doing there in the past, the idea that people leave enough traces that you can reconstruct them and their conversations is just dumb, its basically magic. Then in the first episode, how could you wan jump up over what was several flights of stairs, isn’t she supposed to be a positronic brain in a human body, even Data could not have done 5% of that.

I am sure there was another series that had something similar. Think it might have been ''Continuam''
It is a bit silly but hay its a series, it has Patrick Stewart in it and its enjoyable as well so it did bother me really. The changing between the Apartment and his home while doing it was more annoying.

As for . I am not sure yet. Maybe when Picard meet Soni we will find out more.

Scott Tenorman

Not enjoying this at all so far but it has Picard so i will continue to watch, hopefully it improves.

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

I am sure there was another series that had something similar. Think it might have been ''Continuam''
It is a bit silly but hay its a series, it has Patrick Stewart in it and its enjoyable as well so it did bother me really. The changing between the Apartment and his home while doing it was more annoying.

As for . I am not sure yet. Maybe when Picard meet Soni we will find out more.

Its also in a couple of computer games, Like the 'Beast Inside', 'Deus Ex' etc. Actually may be more common than I thought the more I think about it.

Batman Arkham series too

TheIrishGrover

silverharp wrote: »

The tech is getting stupid at this stage , how can you have a device that essentially can go back in time to see what people might have been doing there in the past, the idea that people leave enough traces that you can reconstruct them and their conversations is just dumb, its basically magic. Then in the first episode, how could you wan jump up over what was several flights of stairs, isn’t she supposed to be a positronic brain in a human body, even Data could not have done 5% of that.

I could see how they would "justify" it to a degree:

Oh we are getting more DNA traces here from two people which would suggest they were sitting in this position for some time and then, at some stage he went to the replicator. We also pick up traces of wine so can determine they were drinking. We have fiber traces so we can determine what they were wearing..... yadda yadda yadds (Of course the "cheeky feicers" scrubbed the place. So...)

But regarding sounds, music etc..... Yeah, magic.

Of course Laris Nì Romulàn could actually be still working for the Tal Shiar (Or however you spell it) or that mystery group and is just stringing him along.

Or, both Romulans could just be in his head.

Did they explain how he ended up at home, post explosion?

Rawr

Deleted User wrote: »

Did they explain how he ended up at home, post explosion?

It was a big blast. He probably bounced a couple of times and landed back in France

I am kidding, but yes that did seem odd. Surely he'd wake up at a local hospital or at Starfleet Command's sickbay, before being sent home.

odyssey06

Rawr wrote: »

It was a big blast. He probably bounced a couple of times and landed back in France
I am kidding, but yes that did seem odd. Surely he'd wake up at a local hospital or at Starfleet Command's sickbay, before being sent home.

And eh, was no one concerned about the blast cause?
24th century equivalent of 'gas explosion', nothing to see here, please move along...
Did I miss that being explained on screen?

Rawr

odyssey06 wrote: »

And eh, was no one concerned about the blast cause?
24th century equivalent of 'gas explosion', nothing to see here, please move along...
Did I miss that being explained on screen?

They didn't seem to bother explaining it. Which is a bit of a plot hole I feel. I wonder if something was cut out there.