Why I'm Voting for FG

Idbatterim

whisky_galore wrote: »

Other posters will have us believe the above demographic are living the life of Riley.

they are, the social housing tenants have now moved into the luxury dublin apartments, virtually no rent, no lpt, no management fee. Likely living in nicer accommodation than you , I am and many others, many getting free money every week. No commute, to stress, no work nothing. Yeah its an awful life! Meanwhile minimum wage workers commute to dundrum town centre for over an hour etc, to live in kips!

James Brown

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Voting for FG means keeping the ship "steady as she goes"...

FG is not by any means perfect, and it really needs a kick up the backside when it comes to all thing health & housing related (lack of spending) and cutbacks, but the overall picture for the country under FG is one of an economically healthy Ireland with a good future.

National crises...no thanks.

He pointed out that approximately a quarter of the workforce earns less than the living wage of €12.30.
That is the rate calculated to ensure that a single full-time worker can achieve a minimum socially acceptable standard of living.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0131/1112090-social-justice-ireland/

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Every substantive piece of social legislation has been passed under a FG government - divorce, abortion, SSM. If we left it down to FF then nothing would have been achieved - always talking out of both corners of their mouth when it comes to the ‘difficult’ issues.

FF are good enough for FG.

James Brown

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Abortion in particular was kicked down the road for decades by successive governments.

For the above pieces of legislation people say that FG should take no credit for them yet on the other hand the NBP and NCH are solely the fault of Leo Varadkar. Does not compute

I'll explain. Those social issues were multiparty once the public took hold of them. All should be congratulated including FG or was this one of those times FG were scuttled by a Jnr. partner? It's hard to keep track of the baloney.
The NCH is 100% on FG. They chose the site and took their eye off the ball as regards costs.

intellectual dosser

Gonad wrote: »

Really hope for a big results from SF

It’s time we give them a chance. They talk a big game and seem to actually care for what’s best for the people who need it most. They have a couple of very clever politicians. Doherty is doing some great work at the moment .

They've got the most experience of being in opposition, being in power is a very different thing.

If we believe what they're saying then no one will wait for a second on a hospital waiting list, everyone who wants a social house will get one. Tax breaks for all. The corporations will pay but won't be packing up and leaving.

Personally I feel it will be the 'squeezed middle' who would end up paying for Sinn Fein's fantasies.

If you want any read into SF in power look at Northern Ireland. Mary Lou is president of the whole lot.

intellectual dosser

I think everyone should brace themselves for a majority of undecided voters reaching the same conclusions as OP on Feb 8th

_Kaiser_

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah they havent looked after us, but I can see why it has happened, you have black holes in health, housing etc, this is the issue. Without increased taxes or cutting expenditure, what do you propose? That is the core. They cant do anything or near it, for workers with the current system / setup. A vote for any other party, just exacerbates a bad situation! and what a shocker that many people will vote to remove money from others pockets, to their own! :rolleyes: what an absolute shocker there...

We had FG effectively running things between 2011-2016. LAB sold out their supporters to become FG lite and get their turn at the trough again.

What did they do in that period?

- Irish Water debacle and the inquiries that are still ongoing
- Railroading legislation through the Dail without proper debate
- Tried to abolish the Senate rather than reform it (which is why it was defeated)
- Enda Kenny's "stories"
- The AGS scandals

And throughout all this, they allowed core services to get worse, presided over a worsening housing crisis and threatened mandatory health insurance, broadcast taxes, and other such things to further burden people.

You know this yourself, and I accept that you think that they're the best of the options being presented to us next weekend - but I think letting FG back at the controls either alone or as the controlling influence is not a good thing for the country. That's why they always succeed in making FF electable again (as they have again) no matter what the latter did previously.

James Brown

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

We had FG effectively running things between 2011-2016. LAB sold out their supporters to become FG lite and get their turn at the trough again.

What did they do in that period?

- Irish Water debacle and the inquiries that are still ongoing
- Railroading legislation through the Dail without proper debate
- Tried to abolish the Senate rather than reform it (which is why it was defeated)
- Enda Kenny's "stories"
- The AGS scandals

And throughout all this, they allowed core services to get worse, presided over a worsening housing crisis and threatened mandatory health insurance, broadcast taxes, and other such things to further burden people.

You know this yourself, and I accept that you think that they're the best of the options being presented to us next weekend - but I think letting FG back at the controls either alone or as the controlling influence is not a good thing for the country. That's why they always succeed in making FF electable again (as they have again) no matter what the latter did previously.

Not forgetting Reilly's clinics and wasting the opportunity to tackle the HSE and anything else they liked in favour of more of the same.

ill probably lead with lab/green but will have fg on the card just to infuriate the anti-govt brigade

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

ill probably lead with lab/green but will have fg on the card just to infuriate the anti-govt brigade

Wouldn't who ever wins, say Lab/Green be the government? Why care about the outgoing one way or the other?

micosoft

mickthewall wrote: »

I was earning 55K in Dublin, not enough for me to buy my own place with 1500 on rent for not a great place.

In the states I’m getting $95K for the same role as that’s the going rate and taxes are a lot better and rent for your own place is about 65% of Dublin.

So yea makes sense I emigrated. I know stuff isn’t handed to you but the housing market is out of control.

Where in the states? It's a big country...
- In San Francisco you would be living in a tent on the streets with that salary ($95k). - In Leitrim you could afford a small house for 55k.

Good for you getting $95k (but you have to account for paying for healthcare, no social net etc) but that is also not Varadkar - that is the private sector.

The housing sector is not out of control. Average price of a house in SF is 1.3m. It's 150k in Bucharest. Somewhere in the middle is the right figure.
Every other cities with a strong economy has same challenges. I know people in London on £240k who commute 2 hours each way every day because of affordability.

Finally there is a lag period of several years from govt. policy change to effect. Our entire construction sector imploded. People would have laughed at a government that put in its govt programme a training plan for construction workers in 2010.

I think there are lots of things we could have done - planning for example. But every local politician gets hounded by their electorate for letting any development occur in their area. The Irish electorate play a large part in ensuring nothing is done by housing regardless of government.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

You have posted this false narrative before, had it comprehensively dismantled and dismissed, yet you come back and post it again.

Fair dues for the courage and neck to do so.

It's absolutely not a false narrative, why do you insist on trying to rewrite history all the time?

It's easy to do the right thing when it's cool and profitable

Champion.

McMurphy

tomatofruit wrote: »

Im old enough to remember the Troika having to come into Ireland with a bailout and leaving 4 years later in 2013, what a mess this country was left in really by a Fianna Fail led government. Thats just over 6 years ago, I think the place has been doing well since. More of the same please.

So you're more than 9 years old? Congratulations.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

It's absolutely not a false narrative, why do you insist on trying to rewrite history all the time?

It's easy to do the right thing when it's cool and profitable




Champion.

The snide underhand allegation from Matt Barrett was that Varadkar only came out and in favour of gay marriage because it was popular.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Rode the wave even though Leo was against gay marriage...until he saw the wave....
.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/when-leo-varadkar-came-out-delays-hesitation-and-then-courage-37229592.html

The full and true story is a lot different.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The snide underhand allegation from Matt Barrett was that Varadkar only came out and in favour of gay marriage because it was popular.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/when-leo-varadkar-came-out-delays-hesitation-and-then-courage-37229592.html

The full and true story is a lot different.

It wasn't snide or underhanded. I said it quite plainly. You trying to suggest it was is false representation, snide and underhanded.

EDIT: When you read your quote my Boards handle is funny in that absurd context, IMO

Idbatterim

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

We had FG effectively running things between 2011-2016. LAB sold out their supporters to become FG lite and get their turn at the trough again.

What did they do in that period?

- Irish Water debacle and the inquiries that are still ongoing
- Railroading legislation through the Dail without proper debate
- Tried to abolish the Senate rather than reform it (which is why it was defeated)
- Enda Kenny's "stories"
- The AGS scandals

And throughout all this, they allowed core services to get worse, presided over a worsening housing crisis and threatened mandatory health insurance, broadcast taxes, and other such things to further burden people.

You know this yourself, and I accept that you think that they're the best of the options being presented to us next weekend - but I think letting FG back at the controls either alone or as the controlling influence is not a good thing for the country. That's why they always succeed in making FF electable again (as they have again) no matter what the latter did previously.

we will see shortly, if they have made FF electable again, they have certainly given FF a big bounce though. But FG cant get back at the controls alone, there is no way, and I would say possibly EVER here, that I can see a party getting a majority here. If you dont want to tackle the core issues here, and this is what makes me laugh, the others more than FG, are more about keeping the status quo on welfare, health etc

While on the one hand, I think I will laugh / be interested to see, what the hot air brigade will do, if they got in. Because you cant tackle the issues here, without upsetting the apple cart and they wont do that. While Fg started rocking it and backed down on water etc, I mean our government and policies, are pretty much all based on easiest solution and sheer populism. the chickens are going to come home to roost...

I honestly think it might take yet another FF inspired bust, to make the populace think twice again, about this "free everything" ... I think it will be a bloody waste of years and they are cutting off their own nose to spite their face. "we will show fg" what will you show them if the **** hits the fan again, you emigrating or joining the dole q? we arent norway etc, this great utopia that they think is only one other party away, is delusional!

And the irony is , that the sheer wealth transfer, from the middle to upper earners, is jaw dropping and yet its those receiving these massive transfer, massively valuable property for a pittance, that pay virtually nothing for it. Then bitch "their isnt enough social housing" etc. I mean you'd never be having this debate in other countries, because the media and politicians, would be representing both sides of the debate. All you hear in the media here, is one side. I mean of course people will believe they are being screwed over, if thats all they are every told and they dont have any comparison with other countries. I mean would RTE care to enlighten us, with a report into the difference in welfare states, between here, a northern europe one, uk and southern europe? would they fcuk! Mirriam O'Callaghan too busy courting margaret cash, two spongers receiving ridiculous largesse from the state...

I do get why this situations has transpired however, I mean to effect change, you are going to have to step on a lot of toes, speak a lot of home truths. Ireland is a very small, parochial place and I absolutely can understand A) why you get the poor quality candidates and elected representatives that we have and why nobody is prepared to step forward and speak the truth and go on the attack here, against a sizeable percentage of the electorate...

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

The snide underhand allegation from Matt Barrett was that Varadkar only came out and in favour of gay marriage because it was popular.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/when-leo-varadkar-came-out-delays-hesitation-and-then-courage-37229592.html

The full and true story is a lot different.

Matt Barret is 110% correct.

Before Leo came out, Leo stood up in the Dail and opposed gay marriage for Christ sake.
Think about that, a gay man opposed to the thoughts of gay people enjoying the same rights as everyone else.

Leo came out because it was cool.


It's all there in the article and YouTube clip blanch.

Idbatterim

Labour are mentioned a lot, I think FG dont lose anywhere enough support, even when they dont deliver for many of their voters. Because these voters are far more realistic. I mean with the Labour vote loss, "their every little hurts" bit was great propaganda. They get in with FG, "curb" presumably, some of what FG would have done, which is a dissapointment to many. They are a junior party, not a dictatorship and then people are surprised, that they werent running the shop?

I mean "labours way or frankfurts way" Its up there , with the most delusional BS , I have every heard!

In a state that love handouts and the easy decisions, what were you going to do Labour, tell Merkel and Trichet, to turn off the gravy train that you thrive off and support? I mean its like the local boy scouts, thinking they were going to go into the local drug lords home and call the shots. Look , I morally disagree with the bailout of anglo etc, but the lesson is, dont ever as a country, put ourselves in that situation again. Also I absolutely believe labour meant the best and actually did think they could do far better with the banking issue, in my opinion, it was just insane naivety...

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

Matt Barret is 110% correct.

Before Leo came out, Leo stood up in the Dail and opposed gay marriage for Christ sake.
Think about that, a gay man opposed to the thoughts of gay people enjoying the same rights as everyone else.

Leo came out because it was cool.


It's all there in the article and YouTube clip blanch.

I appreciate the snide and underhanded way you said I was 110% correct

Idbatterim

McMurphy wrote: »

Matt Barret is 110% correct.

Before Leo came out, Leo stood up in the Dail and opposed gay marriage for Christ sake.
Think about that, a gay man opposed to the thoughts of gay people enjoying the same rights as everyone else.

Leo came out because it was cool.


It's all there in the article and YouTube clip blanch.

leo usually flies the public kite, like all politicians here, before he makes up his mind on where he stands with any issue! :rolleyes:

McMurphy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I appreciate the snide and underhanded way you said I was 110% correct

There will probably be a snide and underhand way now to insinuate I'm homophobic, in hot pursuit of the misogynistic insinuations.

I cannot stand him but I think he came out because in this day and age, Twas better to be out outed!! so he used it to his advantage and for sure came out at a time when he'd benefit most. He's an absolute robot with the empathy and grace of a wingnut. He's not a man to apologise for anything, so we must assume he's guilty of the below, or at least his goons are. Admits to being deceitful, disrespectful, withholding the truth, trivialising important facts.. and on and on..
to what end?? Money!!! a trained doctor no less!!

"We are sorry for failures of clinical governance; failures of leadership and management; failure to tell the whole truth and do so in a timely manner; the humiliation, disrespect and deceit; the false reassurance; the attempts to play down the seriousness of this debacle.”

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Leo came out because it was cool.

Certainly one of the most ill informed opinions on someone's personal life I've came across in a while and quite an unwarranted jibe at someone's brave journey, to be fair

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Certainly one of the most ill informed opinions on someone's personal life I've came across in a while and quite an unwarranted jibe at someone's brave journey, to be fair

Brave journey my arse.

I think you missed the linked article.

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

Certainly one of the most ill informed opinions on someone's personal life I've came across in a while and quite an unwarranted jibe at someone's brave journey, to be fair

Most amusing.

micosoft

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

FG's role in Brexit has been massively overstated IMO. It's between the UK and the EU - whether Ireland survived the process was largely incidental save for a recognition here and in the UK that a return to the bad old days was something to be avoided.

On the economy, I'd argue that they've done everything possible to hamper the recovery with their inaction on housing, transport and the generally ridiculously high costs of living here for a country our size. They (FG) were in the right place at the right time when the global economy recovered and because we have a very open, hugely FDI-dependent, local economy we naturally felt the benefits swiftly.

Nobody that has followed the Brexit process could possibly agree with your assertion, most of all the UK tabloids that started attacking Varadker personally because he was delaying Brexit. If you haven't noticed the current government managed to put a hard border in the middle of the Irish sea instead of on our land. That was an astonishing achievement and one that just didn't happen.

Plenty to critique FG about without telling "alternative truth" spin. Of course plenty of kudos to our Civil Service who delivered this. You seem to have taken the line that everything bad is Fine Gael and everything good is somebody else. You can't have both.

StupidLikeAFox

McMurphy wrote: »

Brave journey my arse.

I think you missed the linked article.

Is this the one you are referring to? : It's easy to do the right thing when it's cool and profitable

This is a one-man opinion piece in the Indo. Not exactly an in-depth report

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Brave journey my arse.

I think you missed the linked article.

I disagree that someone's personal life as a politician has anything to do with their politics
It's the lowest form of barrel scraping
Regarding his one time opposition to marriage, it's not unusual
There are couples who don't like the institution of marriage
Some of them are gay

Yurt2

Leo coming out was very carefully timed and stage-managed. It was widely known that he was gay in journalistic circles. If he headed into the referendum closeted (even with an about-turn on gay marriage) with his previous opposition to it, it would have been the papers that outed him and he would have been torn to ribbons on social media. He had to come out then, and, in fairness to whoever was advising him, he played a blinder. I don't know do people remember, but he was actually widely unliked in the general populace before then, and then magically he enjoyed a long spell of popularity off the back of it.

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

I disagree that someone's personal life as a politician has anything to do with their politics
It's the lowest form of barrel scraping
Regarding his one time opposition to marriage, it's not unusual
There are couples who don't like the institution of marriage
Some of them are gay

You trying to make it about his personal life is the low form.
It's about his policies, always and his fake not genuine political persona. Him being gay is irrelevant to the point of riding the wave of public opinion.
Now you are defending him for doing what other claimed he didn't do, which was the only discussion here, not his personal life.