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2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

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    #3062
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,223 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    2u2me wrote: »
    If this was any other time; I'd be with you. Wait for the clinical studies and trials. Wait for approval from the CDC. The problem is this process takes usually years. It could easily take 4-5 years.

    I've searched but can't find any statistics about hydroxychloroquine related deaths.(I'm sure there are some)

    What is true is that hydroxychloroquine binds to the same ace2 receptor that the corona virus binds to, thus preventing it from binding.

    The head researcher at the Bill and Melinda gates foundation had this to say



    People with underlying conditions at far more at risk with the corona virus. If I were such a person I might take a chance on this drug.

    Can only imagine how different this post would be if it were Biden who had come out and said this. The side effects of hydroxycholoroquine are well known its been around for ages. Taking on a whim is dangerous. People with underlying conditions will be at risk whether they take it or not. He should be telling people to listen to their doctors.


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    #3063
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Can only imagine how different this post would be if it were Biden who had come out and said this. The side effects of hydroxycholoroquine are well known its been around for ages. Taking on a whim is dangerous. People with underlying conditions will be at risk whether they take it or not. He should be telling people to listen to their doctors.

    You know I asked myself that last night. What if Biden said it.....would I be like "well, I guess ok"

    This is what I decided:
    No. I'd be like staring at the screen with a screwed up face saying "no, come onnn, don't be an idiot, no"

    Defending the undefendable again with Trump here again.


  • Options
    #3064
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    amdublin wrote: »
    A lot of those grants or "small business loans" don't need to be paid back if they are used for X (paying employee wages for example).

    Essentially, they ARE giving money away
    Not quite. That’s the PPP (Payroll Protection Program). You only have two months to spend it, and there are limited ways to spend the funds in order for the loan to turn into a grant. I acquired PPP funds for my company. Unfortunately almost all our business is with nursing homes that are currently in shut down which will last through July. I want to bring people back from unemployment but to do what? Sit around and do nothing? I’ll probably be giving 50%-75% of the PPP funds back to the government as I can’t use it to pay for its intended purpose - payroll because the surrounding state governments have mandated nursing homes remain free from vendor visits. I also acquired a sizable 30 year loan for the company through the Small Business Administration’s Economic Injury Disaster Loan which must be paid back.

    - - - -

    And I see The Guardian was snooping around in my little Pennsylvania community during Trump’s visit here last week. I guess the media outlet was a little surprised, and dismayed, that Trump support in the community remains strong irrespective of the coronavirus impact.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/18/they-dont-give-him-enough-credit-the-voters-who-back-trump-even-through-the-pandemic

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3065
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    amdublin wrote: »
    Watching tv last night and I see a press conference where Trump is telling reporters he has been taking hydroxychloriquine as a preventative for a few weeks now...

    ...I'm off to Google the side effects of hydroxychloriquine (particularly when taking it with no medical condition that requires it)

    Dum dee dum dee dum
    Once again, Trump puts his money were his mouth is.

    Will there be a pity party here if Trump exhibits no bad side effects?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3066
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,649 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    It's a pretty safe and well studied drug I thought, been in use a long long time and not been replaced. These lists of side effects don't tell you much as they tend to be very serious.

    A Decrease In Platelet Clotting
    A Rupture In The Wall Of The Stomach Or Intestine
    A Significant Type Of Allergic Reaction Called Anaphylaxis
    A Type Of Allergic Reaction Called Angioedema
    A Type Of Blood Disorder Where The Red Blood Cells Burst Called Hemolytic Anemia
    A Type Of Kidney Inflammation Called Interstitial Nephritis
    Anemia
    Bleeding
    Bleeding Of The Stomach Or Intestines
    Bleeding Within The Skull
    Blistering Of The Skin
    Blood Coming From Anus
    Bronchospasm
    Damage To The Liver And Inflammation
    Decreased Blood Platelets
    Hives
    Inflammation Of The Skin Due To An Allergy
    Large Purple Or Brown Skin Blotches
    Low Levels Of White Blood Cells
    Seizures
    Stomach Or Intestinal Ulcer
    Trouble Breathing
    Wheezing

    Guess what drug this is?

    It's a stupid and irresponsible thing to say by Trump but considering he is likely under constant medical attention he's not likely to die from this IMO.

    This is EXACTLY the point though , he says this stuff as a distraction from all of his other issues and even if he is actually taking it which I'm suspicious of , he's at zero risk because like you say he's under constant medical supervision.

    However how many thousands of at risk people who believe everything he says verbatim will take it without medical supervision and end up being worse off.

    He's the President , what he says impacts people and he's supposed to lead by example ,He doesn't - he just says stuff that benefits him , not caring how it impacts anyone or anything other than himself.


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    #3067
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,521 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    No one knows for certain what will happy, but there is a strong feeling that it is all unraveling for Trump, now if its enough that he does not get reelected I don't know.


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    #3068
    Melanchthon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    This is EXACTLY the point though , he says this stuff as a distraction from all of his other issues and even if he is actually taking it which I'm suspicious of , he's at zero risk because like you say he's under constant medical supervision.

    However how many thousands of at risk people who believe everything he says verbatim will take it without medical supervision and end up being worse off.

    He's the President , what he says impacts people and he's supposed to lead by example ,He doesn't - he just says stuff that benefits him , not caring how it impacts anyone or anything other than himself.

    Ah misunderstood your point (and I think other posters did too).

    In terms of the virus having a president that's going to be 78 soon (Biden) and Trump being 74 is a real issue, Biden will be 80 half way through his first term which is crazy really no matter what your view on his politics.


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    #3069
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    It's a pretty safe and well studied drug I thought, been in use a long long time and not been replaced. These lists of side effects don't tell you much as they tend to be very serious.

    A Decrease In Platelet Clotting
    A Rupture In The Wall Of The Stomach Or Intestine
    A Significant Type Of Allergic Reaction Called Anaphylaxis
    A Type Of Allergic Reaction Called Angioedema
    A Type Of Blood Disorder Where The Red Blood Cells Burst Called Hemolytic Anemia
    A Type Of Kidney Inflammation Called Interstitial Nephritis
    Anemia
    Bleeding
    Bleeding Of The Stomach Or Intestines
    Bleeding Within The Skull
    Blistering Of The Skin
    Blood Coming From Anus
    Bronchospasm
    Damage To The Liver And Inflammation
    Decreased Blood Platelets
    Hives
    Inflammation Of The Skin Due To An Allergy
    Large Purple Or Brown Skin Blotches
    Low Levels Of White Blood Cells
    Seizures
    Stomach Or Intestinal Ulcer
    Trouble Breathing
    Wheezing

    Guess what drug this is?

    It's a stupid and irresponsible thing to say by Trump but considering he is likely under constant medical attention he's not likely to die from this IMO.
    Wow, that’s quite the list. Trump should acquire at least 4 or 5 from that extensive list from his taking hydroxychloroquine, right? Or is his chances something like less that 1%. I wonder what odds the betting community would give on Trump getting ANY of those side effects. A pretty big sizable payout, I gather, if you’d place a bet.

    Somehow I think the possible side effects list would probably as extensive for just about any prescribed drugs.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3070
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Can only imagine how different this post would be if it were Biden who had come out and said this. The side effects of hydroxycholoroquine are well known its been around for ages. Taking on a whim is dangerous. People with underlying conditions will be at risk whether they take it or not. He should be telling people to listen to their doctors.
    Where have you been? He is telling people to LISTEN TO THEIR DOCTORS!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3071
    Melanchthon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Wow, that’s quite the list. Trump should acquire at least 4 or 5 from that extensive list from his taking hydroxychloroquine, right? Or is his chances something like less that 1%. I wonder what odds the betting community would give on Trump getting ANY of those side effects. A pretty big sizable payout, I gather, if you’d place a bet.

    Somehow I think the possible side effects list would probably as extensive for just about any prescribed drugs.

    That's the list for severe reactions to aspirin, that was my point though, he is taking a medication that has been used for a long long time and is still in widespread use and had medical supervision so he isn't likely to be under a huge risk.

    Don't get me wrong though I still think it's a bad thing to say, others will take it without having a doctor constantly monitoring them because of Trump's statement as Quin_Dub highlights, also it stresses supply for people with lupus and so on that actually really need the medication.


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    #3072
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    That's the list for severe reactions to aspirin, that was my point though, he is taking a medication that has been used for a long long time and is still in widespread use and had medical supervision so he isn't likely to be under a huge risk.

    Don't get me wrong though I still think it's a bad thing to say, others will take it without having a doctor constantly monitoring them because of Trump's statement as Quin_Dub highlights, also it stresses supply for people with lupus and so on that actually really need the medication.
    My Bad.

    What was the delay for people already on the medication? For a temporary time, a week or two?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3073
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Oh boy, the Trump campaign has launched a new parody website called “Truth Over Facts.” And, as expected, the liberal media’s collective heads exploded.

    https://www.thetruthoverfacts.com/

    Hilarious!

    I can’t wait till next week to find out what a 'dog faced pony soldier' is. :)

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3074
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Oh boy, the Trump campaign has launched a new parody website called “Truth Over Facts.” And, as expected, the liberal media’s collective heads exploded.

    https://www.thetruthoverfacts.com/

    Hilarious!

    I can’t wait till next week to find out what a 'dog faced pony soldier' is. :)

    can you point to some examples of where liberal medias heads have exploded over this?


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    #3075
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Where have you been? He is telling people to LISTEN TO THEIR DOCTORS!

    And doctors are saying not to take it ... Where have you been ?

    Most likely he pulled that statement out of his arse ... The place where most of his incoherent ramblings originate from.


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    #3076
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    weisses wrote: »
    And doctors are saying not to take it ... Where have you been ?

    Most likely he pulled that statement out of his arse ... The place where most of his incoherent ramblings originate from.
    Some are, some aren't.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3077
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Some are, some aren't.

    Some doctors think it might help when you already have symptoms ....If you can point out to medical research currently in favor of preventitive use of this drug ... By all means post it here
    Chloroquine/Hydroxychloroquine:
    The Panel recommends against using high-dose chloroquine (600 mg twice daily for 10 days) for the treatment of COVID-19 (AI), because the high dose carries a higher risk of toxicities than the lower dose.
    The FDA warning that cautioned against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 outside the setting of a hospital or clinical trial was added to this section.

    And your president is supposedly taking this drug ???

    I wonder what urgent matters he was pressed on before spouting the bile he was taking hydroxychloroquine ?


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    #3078
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Oh boy, the Trump campaign has launched a new parody website called “Truth Over Facts.” And, as expected, the liberal media’s collective heads exploded.

    https://www.thetruthoverfacts.com/

    Hilarious!

    I can’t wait till next week to find out what a 'dog faced pony soldier' is. :)

    This is you, just posting ****e, and saying what you want to happen: "And, as expected, the liberal media’s collective heads exploded."

    I don't know about what other forums you are posting on (some American ones I'd hope??) but no one is falling for your propaganda rubbish here on this one.

    I'm still at a loss why you're even posting here. None of us can vote in the US elections you know that right

    Ps. I didn't click your clickbait link, I can imagine the rubbish therein


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    #3079
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    can you point to some examples of where liberal medias heads have exploded over this?
    Of course I can!

    https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1262417510277828611/photo/1
    https://twitter.com/DavidCayJ
    https://twitter.com/TerryMoran
    https://twitter.com/SmiloTweets
    https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast
    https://twitter.com/ezraklein

    Hmmm… that’s just The HuffPost, ABC News, Washington Post, The Daily Beast, Vox and for good measure a Pulitzer Prize Winner. Happy?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3080
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    weisses wrote: »
    Some doctors think it might help when you already have symptoms ....If you can point out to medical research currently in favor of preventitive use of this drug ... By all means post it here
    Somehow I doubt even one quarter of global physicians would be enough for you.

    https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200417005586/en/Sermo-Reports-One-Quarter-Global-Physicians-Agree-Healthcare

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3081
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    ????

    I think you have an odd interpretation of "heads exploding"

    My example of heads exploding would be the tantrums Trump throws at press conferences "that's a naaaasty question"
    *flounces off stage right*


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    #3082
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    amdublin wrote: »
    This is you, just posting ****e, and saying what you want to happen: "And, as expected, the liberal media’s collective heads exploded."

    I don't know about what other forums you are posting on (some American ones I'd hope??) but no one is falling for your propaganda rubbish here on this one.

    I'm still at a loss why you're even posting here. None of us can vote in the US elections you know that right

    Ps. I didn't click your clickbait link, I can imagine the rubbish therein
    Right, most here cannot vote, but that doesn't stop you from posting hate, vile, and lies about the US president. Are you pissed that someone has the cojones to stand up for him?

    Ps. What clickbait link?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3083
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Of course I can!

    https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/1262417510277828611/photo/1
    https://twitter.com/DavidCayJ
    https://twitter.com/TerryMoran
    https://twitter.com/SmiloTweets
    https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast
    https://twitter.com/ezraklein

    Hmmm… that’s just The HuffPost, ABC News, Washington Post, The Daily Beast, Vox and for good measure a Pulitzer Prize Winner. Happy?

    perhaps you might point the actual posts where they lose their heads rather than entire accounts.


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    #3084
    BloodyBill
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭BloodyBill


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    can you point to some examples of where liberal medias heads have exploded over this?

    Anybody listen to Joe Duffy today. All about trump again. RTE are obsessed. There was one speaker on from Chicago and he was excellent, just a cool,calm Irish guy who said hes better off under Trump. I listen to RTE but live here in the UK. It's so left wing and so liberal is hilarious. A neighbour if mine said 'Do you guys have alternative channels in Ireland'? I said that's the channel that's supposed to be centrist. We have no conservative media in Ireland.


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    #3085
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    point to the acti

    perhaps you might point the actual posts where they lose their heads rather than entire accounts.
    Go to the first link by Chirstina Wilkie and scroll down looking for the other names I listed and see their comments. Or don't.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3086
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    BloodyBill wrote: »
    Anybody listen to Joe Duffy today. All about trump again. RTE are obsessed. There was one speaker on from Chicago and he was excellent, just a cool,calm Irish guy who said hes better off under Trump. I listen to RTE but live here in the UK. It's so left wing and so liberal is hilarious. A neighbour if mine said 'Do you guys have alternative channels in Ireland'? I said that's the channel that's supposed to be centrist. We have no conservative media in Ireland.

    perhaps you lost track what was being discussed because this is totally irrelevant to what i was asking. and i doubt notobtuse was referring to Joe duffy given that he is in the US


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    #3087
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Go to the first link by Chirstina Wilkie and scroll down looking for the other names I listed and see their comments. Or don't.

    you consider this to be heads exploding?
    Christina Wilkie wrote:
    Inbox: Trump Campaign Announces Launch of 'Truth Over Facts' Investigative Website So I guess the war on facts has a name now.

    coming from a supporter of the whiniest manbaby to be president i would have thought the bar was a LOT higher than that.


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    #3088
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Right, most here cannot vote, but that doesn't stop you from posting hate, vile, and lies about the US president. Are you pissed that someone has the cojones to stand up for him?

    Ps. What clickbait link?

    I'm not sure why you are saying that is what I post.

    I post what I see Trump saying and doing. The fact of the matter is he says some rather stupid things and does idiotic things....well I'm sorry dude, it is what it is. Are you p1ssed about that?

    That website you posted with your little intro to it "liberal heads exploding". Nah won't be clicking that.

    Ps. You call it "parody". Without clicking in I'm willing to bet it's full of "hate, vile and lies".


  • Options
    #3089
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    perhaps you lost track what was being discussed because this is totally irrelevant to what i was asking. and i doubt notobtuse was referring to Joe duffy given that he is in the US
    If it's in any way related to the US presidential election, it's all good. Tell me more about this Joe Duffy guy. :P

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3090
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    amdublin wrote: »
    I'm not sure why you are saying that is what I post.

    I post what I see Trump saying and doing. The fact of the matter is he says some rather stupid things and does idiotic things....well I'm sorry dude, it is what it is. Are you p1ssed about that?

    That website you posted with your little intro to it "liberal heads exploding". Nah won't be clicking that.

    Ps. You call it "parody". Without clicking in I'm willing to bet it's full of "hate, vile and lies".

    the website is just a single link to a YT video. that is it. I shouldnt really expect better from somebody as pathetic as trump. about as impressive as a Geocities page.


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    #3091
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    amdublin wrote: »
    I'm not sure why you are saying that is what I post.

    I post what I see Trump saying and doing. The fact of the matter is he says some rather stupid things and does idiotic things....well I'm sorry dude, it is what it is. Are you p1ssed about that?

    That website you posted with your little intro to it "liberal heads exploding". Nah won't be clicking that.

    Ps. You call it "parody". Without clicking in I'm willing to bet it's full of "hate, vile and lies".
    You think the Trump Campaign is clickbait??? It's parody and humor... Alien concepts??? :confused:

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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