Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

Options
1…123124126128129…331

Comments

  • Options
    #3752
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Over 100,000 deaths in the USA

    How does the man who said "it will disappear like a miracle" sleep at night?


  • Options
    #3753
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I'm not sure that's true.. I mean Hilary Clinton lost , not because Trump was better than her , but because not enough Democrat voters could get past their dislike of her.

    .

    But even then still managed to get more votes than trump.


  • Options
    #3754
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    duploelabs wrote: »
    If you've an issue, why don't you report it?

    No need. Just pointing out that it was a needlessly emotive remark. Was hoping you might realise it and apologise if it was brought to your attention. I don't advocate for your words to be censored if you are happy with it.


  • Options
    #3755
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Again , those are just examples of voter fraud , not examples of where the fraud materially changed the result.

    The North Carolina one , the guy was forced to resign (and rightly so) not because the result had been changed due to the fraud but because he was involved in the fraud (or at least persons in his employ were involved).

    Fraud happens and will always happen and you can never fully remove the risk.

    There is no evidence that Mail-in voting is inherently more risky than other types of voting that's the point that's being made.
    From NPR, who at least attempts to be fair at times... Fraud in the mail in voting process happens if safeguards aren’t put into place. "Ballot harvesting" being the most worrisome. Has ballot harvesting been eliminated from those almost universal Democrat states who are pushing for mail in voting? Well, is it? Is it?

    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/07/829323152/fact-check-is-mail-ballot-fraud-as-rampant-as-president-trump-says-it-is

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3756
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    From NPR, who at least attempts to be fair at times... Fraud in the mail in voting process happens if safeguards aren’t put into place. "Ballot harvesting" being the most worrisome. Has ballot harvesting been eliminated from those almost universal Democrat states who are pushing for mail in voting? Well, is it? Is it?

    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/07/829323152/fact-check-is-mail-ballot-fraud-as-rampant-as-president-trump-says-it-is


    Don't disagree on the Ballot harvesting , but the GOP use that same tool in California(if not others) to their benefit.

    But here's the thing - Here's you and I getting to place where we almost agree on how we could both get to a place we could agree on as (I think) we both recognise that mail-in voting has it's place, especially now.

    And it took us what? A half dozen posts back and forth on a messaging board over the course of less than an hour.

    But Trump just screams "FRAUD" and threatens to withhold funding from States etc.

    It exposes his real fear here , not "Voter fraud" , but simply "More Voters" as all historical evidence suggests that increased voter turn-out tends to go against the GOP.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3757
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No need. Just pointing out that it was a needlessly emotive remark. Was hoping you might realise it and apologise if it was brought to your attention. I don't advocate for your words to be censored if you are happy with it.

    My words? What did I say now?


  • Options
    #3758
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    amdublin wrote: »
    Over 100,000 deaths in the USA

    How does the man who said "it will disappear like a miracle" sleep at night?

    It's one guy coming from China...


  • Options
    #3759
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Don't disagree on the Ballot harvesting , but the GOP use that same tool in California(if not others) to their benefit.

    But here's the thing - Here's you and I getting to place where we almost agree on how we could both get to a place we could agree on as (I think) we both recognise that mail-in voting has it's place, especially now.

    And it took us what? A half dozen posts back and forth on a messaging board over the course of less than an hour.

    But Trump just screams "FRAUD" and threatens to withhold funding from States etc.

    It exposes his real fear here , not "Voter fraud" , but simply "More Voters" as all historical evidence suggests that increased voter turn-out tends to go against the GOP.
    The goal of the shutdowns and stay in place orders has been to flatten the curve, which appears to have been achieved. Everything is indicating we most probably will be back to "green" (regarding the pandemic) by the election. So why such a push for mail in voting as it already exists... We ALREADY have a process in place to vote by mail.

    Other than horrors of ballot harvesting, other issues are concerning in the vote by mail process.
    Absentee ballots are the tools of choice of election fraudsters because they are voted outside the supervision of election officials, making it easier to steal, forge, or alter them, as well as to intimidate voters.

    Voter registration rolls are notoriously inaccurate and out of date, containing the names of voters who are deceased, have moved, or otherwise have become ineligible.

    Having thousands of ballots arriving in the mail for individuals who no longer reside at a registered address risks those ballots being stolen and voted.

    https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/potential-fraud-why-mail-elections-should-be-dead-letter

    Until safeguards are put in place to eliminate the potential for fraud I don’t want to see the push for expanded vote by mail take place. Any why are Democrats pushing so hard to have mail in voting take place nationwide without any safeguards in place? The answer, for me at least, is evident... the Democrats want it to be easily open to voting fraud.

    Edit: I've seen a number of reports that mail in voting actually helps republicans more than democrats, because the elderly vote more for republicans. So the push by republicans to limit mail in voting is simply to keep the process fair and free from fraud.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3760
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    But even then still managed to get more votes than trump.
    Still can't accept that we don't elect our president by mob rule, eh?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3761
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    amdublin wrote: »
    Over 100,000 deaths in the USA

    How does the man who said "it will disappear like a miracle" sleep at night?
    Probably with the fact that without the actions he took the death rate would have been far, far worse.

    And you can thank the democrat governors like Andrew Cuomo and my governor, whose idiotic executive orders sent what could be tens of thousands of nursing home patients to their demise, for the high number of deaths in the US. These governors should be in jail!

    Do me a favor. Look at how the governors of New York and Florida dealt with the coronavirus (whose state have similar populations and densities) and their death rates. Then look at how the media treated both governors. They laud the NY governor and condemn the FL governor. Mainstream media bias at its best.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3762
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The goal of the shutdowns and stay in place orders has been to flatten the curve, which appears to have been achieved. Everything is indicating we most probably will be back to "green" (regarding the pandemic) by the election. So why such a push for mail in voting as it already exists? We ALREADY have a process in place to vote by mail.

    I wish I shared your confidence on that , however if people were to wait until September and a 2nd wave was to hit for example before making provisions it would be too late so better to act now to have the mitigation in place.

    notobtuse wrote: »
    Other than horrors of ballot harvesting, other issues are concerning in the vote by mail process.


    https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/potential-fraud-why-mail-elections-should-be-dead-letter

    Those are all easily fixed with negotiation - If it's genuinely about Fraud , then put in place the mitigations - Send Mail-in applications to everyone , not ballots in the 1st case. Give everyone pre-paid envelopes , ballot tracking etc.

    But Trump doesn't want any of those things , he just doesn't want mail-in voting (except for him when he's voting in Florida from an address he may not legally be allowed to use as his official place of residence!) .
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Until safeguards are put in place to eliminate the potential for fraud I don’t want to see the push for in vote by mail take place. Any why are Democrats pushing so hard to have mail in voting take place nationwide without any safeguards in place? The answer, for me at least, is evident... the Democrats want it to be easily open to voting fraud.

    I disagree - Occams razor applies here.


    This isn't about Fraud for Trump and it's not about Fraud for the Democrats. It's about how easy it is for People to vote.

    Trump doesn't want mail-in voting because it will mean more votes are likely to be cast , which all evidence would indicate is bad for him and the GOP.

    The Democrats want mail-in voting for exactly the opposite reasons - More votes (NOT Fraudulent votes) generally speaking, are better for Biden and the Democrats.


  • Options
    #3763
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Still can't accept that we don't elect our president by mob rule, eh?

    Mob rule. Jesus. What utter bull****.


  • Options
    #3764
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I wish I shared your confidence on that , however if people were to wait until September and a 2nd wave was to hit for example before making provisions it would be too late so better to act now to have the mitigation in place.




    Those are all easily fixed with negotiation - If it's genuinely about Fraud , then put in place the mitigations - Send Mail-in applications to everyone , not ballots in the 1st case. Give everyone pre-paid envelopes , ballot tracking etc.

    But Trump doesn't want any of those things , he just doesn't want mail-in voting (except for him when he's voting in Florida from an address he may not legally be allowed to use as his official place of residence!) .



    I disagree - Occams razor applies here.


    This isn't about Fraud for Trump and it's not about Fraud for the Democrats. It's about how easy it is for People to vote.

    Trump doesn't want mail-in voting because it will mean more votes are likely to be cast , which all evidence would indicate is bad for him and the GOP.

    The Democrats want mail-in voting for exactly the opposite reasons - More votes (NOT Fraudulent votes) generally speaking, are better for Biden and the Democrats.

    But the democrats don't want to negotiate and put safeguards against voter fraud in place!

    Actually mail in votes help republicans more than democrats. But we (R) are more concerned about the accuracy and integrity of the voting process and keeping it free from fraud.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/25/us/vote-by-mail-coronavirus.html

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3765
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Mob rule. Jesus. What utter bull****.
    Wrong again. That's basically what a popular vote is!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3766
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Actually mail in votes help republicans more than democrats. But we (R) are more concerned about the accuracy and integrity of the voting process and keeping it free from fraud.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/25/us/vote-by-mail-coronavirus.html

    That's not really what that article says at all though..
    WASHINGTON — Not so many months ago, casting a ballot by mail was a topic reserved for conferences of election administrators, a matter of voting mechanics blander than a water cracker. In Republican Arizona and Democratic Oregon as well as many other states, vast numbers of citizens not only voted by mail, but also loved it.

    That was before the mail ballot became seen as an essential element for voting in a pandemic, and before President Trump weaponized mail voting with largely invented allegations that it would lead to massive voter fraud — despite being used for years in Democratic and Republican states without controversy.
    The logic goes like this: Traditionally, most absentee ballots were cast by Republicans, so a big increase would disproportionately help Democratic turnout. And because turnout had always been higher among wealthier, better-educated voters who tilted Republican, anything that made voting easier was bound to benefit Democrats.

    But recent demographic shifts in the electorate cast doubt on that: Since Mr. Trump’s election, more educated and wealthier voters have trended Democratic, while Republicans have gained among lower-income voters, especially white people. So conventional wisdom may no longer apply.
    A new working paper by the Institute for Economic Policy Research at Stanford University concluded that mail balloting modestly increased voter turnout but that both parties benefited more or less equally from the surge. Other academic studies have reached largely similar conclusions.

    So - To summarise your own link , Trumps fears are "Largely invented allegations" , traditionally Democrats benefit from increased mail-in ballots , but the latest research suggest that it might actually benefit both sides equally due to demographic shifts.

    So , there are no real risks to "the accuracy and integrity of the voting process" and if mail-in voting is allowed , it might actually be neutral in terms of benefits to a given party , but it would allow more people to vote.

    What was your point again?


  • Options
    #3767
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Wrong again. That's basically what a popular vote is!

    Or "Democracy" in pretty much every other country on the planet?!?!??!


  • Options
    #3768
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Wrong again. That's basically what a popular vote is!

    How come the electoral college system isn't used for everything that needs voting on so?


  • Options
    #3769
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    That's not really what that article says at all though..







    So - To summarise your own link , Trumps fears are "Largely invented allegations" , traditionally Democrats benefit from increased mail-in ballots , but the latest research suggest that it might actually no benefit both sides equally due to demographic shifts.

    So , there are no real risks to "the accuracy and integrity of the voting process" and if mail-in voting is allowed , it might actually be neutral in terms of benefits to a given party , but it would allow more people to vote.

    What was your point again?
    My point has been made over and over again. We already have a process for mail in voting, and I don't want it expanded until AFTER we put in place procedures that prevent voter fraud. Not BEFORE! Is that such an alien concept?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3770
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Apparently plan B for Biden regarding his racist ‘then you ain’t black’ comment isn’t working. First it was a joke, then he went on a apology tour (which apparently isn't having the desired effect), and now he’s got a whole new excuse for why he made the remark... Blaming the interviewer Charlamagne tha God.

    “I shouldn’t’ have been such a wise guy. He was being a wise guy, and I responded in kind.”

    What a tool. He actually expects us to buy that nonsense?

    In the words of Joe Biden... “Come on, man!”

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3771
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    My point has been made over and over again. We already have a process for mail in voting, and I don't want it expanded until AFTER we put in place procedures that prevent voter fraud. Not BEFORE! Is that such an alien concept?


    That's a fair point - But then why is Trump or anyone in the GOP not advocating for that , he just screams "FRAUD!!!!!!" and wants to block it entirely.

    Not once have I seen anything from the GOP saying something like "Mail-in voting has it's value to allow people to vote safely , but we have to have XYZ protections in place in order to move ahead" , it's all just "FRAUD!" "CRIMINAL!" "The Democrats are trying to steal the Election!"


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3772
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Apparently plan B for Biden regarding his racist ‘then you ain’t black’ comment isn’t working. First it was a joke, then he went on a apology tour (which apparently isn't having the desired effect), and now he’s got a whole new excuse for why he made the remark... Blaming the interviewer Charlamagne tha God.

    “I shouldn’t’ have been such a wise guy. He was being a wise guy, and I responded in kind.”

    What a tool. He actually expects us to buy that nonsense?

    In the words of Joe Biden... “Come on, man!”

    He has the good grace to admit he was wrong and to apologise. Fair play to Biden. As for Trump...


  • Options
    #3773
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    That's a fair point - But then why is Trump or anyone in the GOP not advocating for that , he just screams "FRAUD!!!!!!" and wants to block it entirely.

    Not once have I seen anything from the GOP saying something like "Mail-in voting has it's value to allow people to vote safely , but we have to have XYZ protections in place in order to move ahead" , it's all just "FRAUD!" "CRIMINAL!" "The Democrats are trying to steal the Election!"
    I'm speaking for myself, not for Trump. Maybe Trump makes outrageous statements that actually starts the discussion processes that wouldn't happen otherwise because of the biased media always favoring democrats and their agenda. It could simply be a negotiating tool of Trumps.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3774
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    He has the good grace to admit he was wrong and to apologise. Fair play to Biden. As for Trump...
    Only because Biden had to. Fair play because he was forced to apologize???? I think not!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3775
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Apparently plan B for Biden regarding his racist ‘then you ain’t black’ comment isn’t working. First it was a joke, then he went on a apology tour (which apparently isn't having the desired effect), and now he’s got a whole new excuse for why he made the remark... Blaming the interviewer Charlamagne tha God.

    “I shouldn’t’ have been such a wise guy. He was being a wise guy, and I responded in kind.”

    What a tool. He actually expects us to buy that nonsense?

    In the words of Joe Biden... “Come on, man!”

    What should the libs/Dems do.. pull out pictures or instances of uncle Joe helping a black person?


  • Options
    #3776
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    duploelabs wrote: »
    My words? What did I say now?

    Sorry, from your response I assumed you were the one who made the comment. Cheerfully retracted.


  • Options
    #3777
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    He has the good grace to admit he was wrong and to apologise. Fair play to Biden. As for Trump...

    The strategy obviously worked then. As seen in the comment I'm replying to.


  • Options
    #3778
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I'm speaking for myself, not for Trump. Maybe Trump makes outrageous statements that actually starts the discussion processes that wouldn't happen otherwise because of the biased media always favoring democrats and their agenda. It could simply be a negotiating tool of Trumps.

    or maybe he is just a terrible person unfit to be president.


  • Options
    #3779
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Or "Democracy" in pretty much every other country on the planet?!?!??!
    How many other countries are THE UNITED STATES OF_______?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #3780
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    The strategy obviously worked then. As seen in the comment I'm replying to.

    Which strategy is that?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3781
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    or maybe he is just a terrible person unfit to be president.
    If I'd agree with that we'd both be wrong.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement