2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

ExMachina1000

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Shareholders benefited most. By a country mile.

Of course they did. They own the stock. They bought it to make money. But other people had jobs and weekly wage. If the company didn't do well that job might not have existed.

Rich do get richer though while everyone else just exists

PropJoe10

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Amazingly notobtuse disappeared instead of giving his opinion on this, we must remind him next time he is online.

A Trump defender going MIA after being asked a direct question, you say? Hold the phone!

DeanAustin

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It is true. It's a bad thing because the vast majority are owned by very wealthy people. The richest 10% of Americans own 85% of all stocks. People who don't need tax breaks. But Trump has made their tax cut permanent.

And is there evidence that the country/ordinary Americans have suffered because of the tax cut?

Isn't it also fair to say that Trump brought the American tax rate down to a level that's sort of in line with the European Union and with most developed countries and that it was amongst the highest in the world and that such a move, in theory, makes the US more competitive for jobs?

eagle eye

housetypeb wrote:

Do you expect the whole political system to be overturned because you don't like the opposing team captain? You keep banging that drum every chance you get for some reason.

I do because I'm very concerned at the possibility of another four years with a horrendous POTUS and that's happening with either Trump or Biden there.

eagle eye

PropJoe10 wrote:

If this was Biden having committed supposed voter fraud, you'd be suggesting that he should stand aside.

No

notobtuse

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who cares?

Trump and that poster seem to care a lot, they bring it up at every opportunity.

I looked into it. So he made a mistake and listed the White House as his primary residence, then corrected it and listed his Florida residence. Did he vote in the wrong district, which would have been wrong? I don't think so!

eagle eye

notobtuse wrote:

I might be wrong but Trump getting elected kinda made that a non issue. Many thought it might be Klobuchar but the timing is wrong as she is now under scrutiny for a 2006 case involving the officer charged in George Floyd’s death.

The world is different for women in politics, they are vetted far more harshly by the public.

Professor Moriarty

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Of course they did. They own the stock. They bought it to make money. But other people had jobs and weekly wage. If the company didn't do well that job might not have existed.

Rich do get richer though while everyone else just exists

Indeed. But shareholders benefit most when tax on profits is cut by 14%. Workers received minuscule pay rises while shareholders' returns jumped. So very wealthy people benefited greatly - they own the vast majority of stocks. The workers benefited very little - in fact they've lost out under Trump. And the deficit mushroomed because taxes are down - which least affects the children of wealthy people.

Overheal

kowloon wrote: »

The system literally relies on continuous growth.

A thing I think a lot of Trump's supporters, and people in general, seem to not get their heads around is that the stock market does not track with regular people's lives. A simple example would be a lowering of minimum wages causing an increase in stock prices.

A strong economy doesn't mean people are doing better when that economy is fueled by desperate people living paycheck to paycheck.

Perfect illustration: “America is burning” but the stock market is rallying...

notobtuse

eagle eye wrote: »

The world is different for women in politics, they are vetted far more harshly by the public.

You may be right. But it didn't seem to affect Hillary very much as it appears one of her goals/job was to destroy the lives and reputation of any woman who made accusations against Bill... One tough cookie. I do remember Harris being referred to as Toes Up Harris, though. Of course Trump has been called much worse. I guess maybe it just doesn't mean that much to me, and I put more weight on a person's political service/business/military history.

PropJoe10

eagle eye wrote: »

No

I'd find that quite unlikely, but okay.

Professor Moriarty

DeanAustin wrote: »

And is there evidence that the country/ordinary Americans have suffered because of the tax cut?

Isn't it also fair to say that Trump brought the American tax rate down to a level that's sort of in line with the European Union and with most developed countries and that it was amongst the highest in the world and that such a move, in theory, makes the US more competitive for jobs?

In theory, yes. But how is that working out in reality? Manufacturing jobs have been declining since the tax cut.

DeanAustin

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In theory, yes. But how is that working out in reality? Manufacturing jobs have been declining since the tax cut.

Before the Covid outbreak, unemployment was at its lowest level since 1969.

MadYaker

eagle eye wrote: »

I do because I'm very concerned at the possibility of another four years with a horrendous POTUS and that's happening with either Trump or Biden there.

Biden won't be horrendous, at worst he'll be boring.

MadYaker

DeanAustin wrote: »

Before the Covid outbreak, unemployment was at its lowest level since 1969.

So what? Covid happened and Trump failed utterly to respond to it in any meaningful way. Unemployed people wont vote for him because they had a job 6 months ago.

Silentcorner

MadYaker wrote: »

So what? Covid happened and Trump failed utterly to respond to it in any meaningful way. Unemployed people wont vote for him because they had a job 6 months ago.

Actually New York was the big f##k up...was that Trumps fault?

Kermit.de.frog

...wrong thread

DeanAustin

MadYaker wrote: »

So what? Covid happened and Trump failed utterly to respond to it in any meaningful way. Unemployed people wont vote for him because they had a job 6 months ago.

I'm not discussing his handling of Covid. That's been pretty poor on almost every level. We were discussing how the economy was doing under Trump before the pandemic.

Timberrrrrrrr

notobtuse wrote: »

I looked into it. So he made a mistake and listed the White House as his primary residence, then corrected it and listed his Florida residence. Did he vote in the wrong district, which would have been wrong? I don't think so!

He is not allowed use Mar e lago as a residence, so he committed voter fraud twice.

hetuzozaho

I see the voter fraud (not that I know anything about it) explanation is that he made a mistake.

...

He was just mistaken.
He spoke incorrectly.
He was being sarcastic.
He was taken out of context.
He didn't say that.
Ok he did say that but he didn't mean that.
He didn't do that.
Ok the video shows him doing that, it's genius actually.
The media are bias.
The left are bias.
Fake news.
But Pelosi was in CHYYYnatown
OBAMAGATE looks like it could be really bigly.

Professor Moriarty

DeanAustin wrote: »

Before the Covid outbreak, unemployment was at its lowest level since 1969.

It was. Obama brought it down by 5.6%. Trump brought it down by 0.8%. Poverty gap has increased. Wages have decreased. Deficit has gone up. So his 0.8% (which fed off the economy he inherited from Obama) is utterly meaningless in the overall picture for the ordinary person. Similar to the booming stock market.

Overheal

Silentcorner wrote: »

Actually New York was the big f##k up...was that Trumps fault?

Lots of Trump missteps during Covid from the beginning: ignoring intel, half baked travel restrictions, lack of quarantine for travelers, stealing medical supplies from the states, playing politics with the governors and the level of cooperation, peddling drugs and then getting himself wrapped up in a hydroxy war because of course he did, picking fights with apolitical agencies, etc etc etc.

The only thing he absolutely nailed was not playing the veto game with the relief bill, like he did with bipartisan immigration reform and congressional wall funding, only to gain practically neither and a government shutdown.

Silentcorner

Overheal wrote: »

Lots of Trump missteps during Covid from the beginning: ignoring intel, half baked travel restrictions, lack of quarantine for travelers, stealing medical supplies from the states, playing politics with the governors and the level of cooperation, peddling drugs and then getting himself wrapped up in a hydroxy war because of course he did, picking fights with apolitical agencies, etc etc etc.

The only thing he absolutely nailed was not playing the veto game with the relief bill, like he did with bipartisan immigration reform and congressional wall funding, only to gain practically neither and a government shutdown.

So the New York Covid disaster was Trumps fault?

DeanAustin

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It was. Obama brought it down by 5.6%. Trump brought it down by 0.8%. Poverty gap has increased. Wages have decreased. Deficit has gone up. So his 0.8% (which fed off the economy he inherited from Obama) is utterly meaningless in the overall picture for the ordinary person. Similar to the booming stock market.

I'm not an expert in the area but a quick Google suggests that the poverty gap increased under Obama substantially and under Trump reduced after an initial spike (http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-gap.html.

Likewise, average household income has gone up under Trump (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/psdt_01-10-20_economic-inequality_1-0/).

Obama was coming off the worst recession in a couple of generations so he couldn't help but bring unemployment down. I'm not for a second saying he wasn't a good President but it'd be like someone coming in next week and reducing unemployment over the next few years and claiming it was down to their genius. They couldn't help but reduce employment after the shock to the economy. You're also not factoring in the law of diminishing returns. Once you get down to ~4.5%, it's not easy to reduce the rate much lower than that. But on Trump's watch, the rate lowered to the lowest rate in 50 years.

The booming stock market isn't irrelevant to the ordinary person. Firstly, some of them will be shareholders particularly if they work for the listed US companies. Secondly, if companies are doing well, they will start to employ more people.

I can't believe I'm on here defending a man I consider absolutely unsuitable for office. But you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some of the things that have happened on his watch have been good for America.

Silentcorner

DeanAustin wrote: »

I'm not an expert in the area but a quick Google suggests that the poverty gap increased under Obama substantially and under Trump reduced after an initial spike (http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-gap.html.

Likewise, average household income has gone up under Trump (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/psdt_01-10-20_economic-inequality_1-0/).

Obama was coming off the worst recession in a couple of generations so he couldn't help but bring unemployment down. I'm not for a second saying he wasn't a good President but it'd be like someone coming in next week and reducing unemployment over the next few years and claiming it was down to their genius. They couldn't help but reduce employment after the shock to the economy. You're also not factoring in the law of diminishing returns. Once you get down to ~4.5%, it's not easy to reduce the rate much lower than that. But on Trump's watch, the rate lowered to the lowest rate in 50 years.

The booming stock market isn't irrelevant to the ordinary person. Firstly, some of them will be shareholders particularly if they work for the listed US companies. Secondly, if companies are doing well, they will start to employ more people.

I can't believe I'm on here defending a man I consider absolutely unsuitable for office. But you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some of the things that have happened on his watch have been good for America.

That is a reasoned position that I share.

I think in time, he will come in around average in terms of his performance...certainly not the complete debacle many many people seem to think he is.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Some of the posts over the past couple of hours have been a lot less than civil

Please rein it in if you wish to continue posting in this thread

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So when you said this:

"I've come away from listening to Biden on many occasions wondering what he was talking about because it didn't make any sense."

You were lying. Okay.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'd apologise if I believed you.

eagle eye wrote: »

Ignore list for you so. Goodbye.

eagle eye wrote: »

Don't bother with him, he'll accuse you if being a liar in a minute without a good reason for it.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Goodbye.

The pair of you can take a 24 hour break from posting in this thread

Next time it will be permanent

extra gravy

notobtuse wrote: »

I put more weight on a person's political service/business/military history.

Zero political service until he got elected, a string of business failures and a draft dodger. Sure you do.

sydthebeat

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It was. Obama brought it down by 5.6%. Trump brought it down by 0.8%. Poverty gap has increased. Wages have decreased. Deficit has gone up. So his 0.8% (which fed off the economy he inherited from Obama) is utterly meaningless in the overall picture for the ordinary person. Similar to the booming stock market.

And he raped the environment in the process

MisterAnarchy

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1268278705194926087

Looks like the Donald might have been right

MadYaker

Silentcorner wrote: »

Actually New York was the big f##k up...was that Trumps fault?

I was going to post a few links to news articles about the intel the WH received about the outbreak in late 2019 early 2020 but whats the point? You'll just ignore it or find some other way to dismiss it. A quick google will turn up a few results for you if you want to learn.