2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

jibber5000

dark crystal wrote: »

Colin Powell joins George Bush & Mitt Romney in declaring they will not be endorsing Donald Trump in the upcoming election. States he will vote for Joe Biden.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1269631976438484995

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1269624853478416384

Powell's endorsements in previous elections.

2008 Obama
2012 Obama
2016 Clinton

This is hardly an earth shattering moment.

jibber5000

jibber5000 wrote: »

Powell's endorsements in previous elections.

2008 Obama
2012 Obama
2016 Clinton

This is hardly an earth shattering moment.

I would say this point is pretty relevant and in keeping with what the likes of Mattis have said.

"We have a Constitution. And we have to follow that Constitution. And the President has drifted away from it,"

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/1269459672714694661

eire4

dark crystal wrote: »

Colin Powell joins George Bush & Mitt Romney in declaring they will not be endorsing Donald Trump in the upcoming election. States he will vote for Joe Biden.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1269631976438484995

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1269624853478416384

Not a surprise really. Interesting that he is being very public about what he intends to do but not a surprise that although a Republican he is going to vote Democrat in this case. Powell always came across as more center right and the Republican Party these days has long since lurched far to the more extreme right.

hotmail.com

Colin Powell lied again and again during the Iraq War. The way in which some people use his endorsement of the Democratic candidate is a worrying sign for Democrats.

Obviously they think the voters in America have short memories?

Timberrrrrrrr

hotmail.com wrote: »

Colin Powell lied again and again during the Iraq War. The way in which some people use his endorsement of the Democratic candidate is a worrying sign for Democrats.

Obviously they think the voters in America have short memories?

And Trump has lied what? 18,000+ times in nearly four years?

hotmail.com

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And Trump has lied what? 18,000+ times in nearly four years?

We know that? It's not an either or every single time.

Kermit.de.frog

hotmail.com wrote: »

We know that? It's not an either or every single time.

Trump is a pathological liar.

So your argument about Powell is ridiculous.

But that's Trump supporters all over really isn't it? Ridiculous clown people rightly ridiculed.

hotmail.com

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Trump is a pathological liar.

So your argument about Powell is ridiculous.

But that's Trump supporters all over really isn't it? Ridiculous clown people rightly ridiculed.

Can't both be bad? Powell lied and was complicit in convincing the American public that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. In another era, people like you would hopping mad about that.

kilns

hotmail.com wrote: »

Can't both be bad? Powell lied and was complicit in convincing the American public that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. In another era, people like you would hopping mad about that.

I think you just argued his point for him. Well done

hotmail.com

kilns wrote: »

I think you just argued his point for him. Well done

The polarised comments here as usual. Only outright criticism of Trump is allowed.. anything else means you support Trump.

When did the divisive nonsense come into Ireland? It's a worrying development.

kilns

hotmail.com wrote: »

The polarised comments here as usual. Only outright criticism of Trump is allowed.. anything else means you support Trump.

When did the divisive nonsense come into Ireland? It's a worrying development.

No you called out Powell for being a liar which may be true but can you agree Trump has lied on numerous occasions?

PropJoe10

hotmail.com wrote: »

Can't both be bad? Powell lied and was complicit in convincing the American public that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. In another era, people like you would hopping mad about that.

Powell was certainly involved in that whole Iraq war shambles. Not sure what that has to do with Trump at all. What he said about Trump is absolutely correct. The wrongdoings of an individual in one situation doesn't necessarily invalidate what they say in a totally different and unrelated situation.

hotmail.com

kilns wrote: »

No you called out Powell for being a liar which may be true but can you agree Trump has lied on numerous occasions?

I said we know that! Did you think I just woke up?

The point is that Democrats shouldn't be taking endorsements from a man with so much blood on his hands. And it's very disappointing to see so many Irish so fond of Powell, particularly given so many here opposed the Iraq War in 2003.

hotmail.com

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Powell was certainly involved in that whole Iraq war shambles. Not sure what that has to do with Trump at all. What he said about Trump is absolutely correct. The wrongdoings of an individual in one situation doesn't necessarily invalidate what they say in a totally different and unrelated situation.

This is just so disappointing.

Plenty of Irish anti war protesters remember Powell quite well lying to the UN.

Forgive me if I don't listen to him and who he wants to vote for.

golfball37

Good job numbers for June and July continuing throughout the summer and I believe the American electorate will do the right thing in November. The campaign to blame Trump for everything from Covid 19 to the murder of George Floyd has traction now but once Biden starts campaigning in earnest I can see Trumps numbers climb

Professor Moriarty

hotmail.com wrote: »

This is just so disappointing.

Plenty of Irish anti war protesters remember Powell quite well lying to the UN.

Forgive me if I don't listen to him and who he wants to vote for.

Powell himself or his history are not important. What's important is that a black general publicly attacking Trump might prompt some voters to not vote for Trump. Especially black voters and especially at this time.

PropJoe10

hotmail.com wrote: »

This is just so disappointing.

Plenty of Irish anti war protesters remember Powell quite well lying to the UN.

Forgive me if I don't listen to him and who he wants to vote for.

Did I say I didn't remember that? I have no love or respect for Colin Powell. I remember that episode quite well and it was a disgrace.

But again, that has nothing to do with the current situation. Lots of people out there have done things that I don't agree with and have issue with. But why should that colour my opinion of their views on Trump?

begbysback

The US has proven Socrates suspicions to be accurate, and even UK with Boris Johnson - is it now time to seek alternatives?

eire4

begbysback wrote: »

The US has proven Socrates suspicions to be accurate, and even UK with Boris Johnson - is it now time to seek alternatives?

I would hardly call the US a democracy. Before you even get to the corruption issues and how utterly bought and paid for the majority of the US congress is there is the fact that the senate is hugely undemocratic. Giving equality representation in that body to states like South Dakota, North Dakota and Wyoming with populations less then 1 million while California with about 40 million and Texas with 30 million all get the same representation. Then there is the fact that the 700,000 odd citizens of DC do not get any political representation at all either in the senate or the house. They have one person with observer status in the house. So that is 700,000 completely disenfranchised at the national level. Then there is the fact that the electoral college actually picks the president and can and has over turned the vote of the people.

And that is like I said all before you even get into how money has bought most of congress and left them as lackeys for major corporations and the wealthy. How the 2 parties corruptly maintain a duopoly on power in DC making sure no viable alternatives can emerge nationally etc.

golfball37

eire4 wrote: »

I would hardly call the US a democracy. Before you even get to the corruption issues and how utterly bought and paid for the majority of the US congress is there is the fact that the senate is hugely undemocratic. Giving equality representation in that body to states like South Dakota, North Dakota and Wyoming with populations less then 1 million while California with about 40 million and Texas with 30 million all get the same representation. Then there is the fact that the 700,000 odd citizens of DC do not get any political representation at all either in the senate or the house. They have one person with observer status in the house. So that is 700,000 completely disenfranchised at the national level. Then there is the fact that the electoral college actually picks the president and can and has over turned the vote of the people.

And that is like I said all before you even get into how money has bought most of congress and left them as lackeys for major corporations and the wealthy. How the 2 parties corruptly maintain a duopoly on power in DC making sure no viable alternatives can emerge nationally etc.

The electoral college has only once in history done what you suggest in 1824.

begbysback

eire4 wrote: »

I would hardly call the US a democracy. Before you even get to the corruption issues and how utterly bought and paid for the majority of the US congress is there is the fact that the senate is hugely undemocratic. Giving equality representation in that body to states like South Dakota, North Dakota and Wyoming with populations less then 1 million while California with about 40 million and Texas with 30 million all get the same representation. Then there is the fact that the 700,000 odd citizens of DC do not get any political representation at all either in the senate or the house. They have one person with observer status in the house. So that is 700,000 completely disenfranchised at the national level. Then there is the fact that the electoral college actually picks the president and can and has over turned the vote of the people.

And that is like I said all before you even get into how money has bought most of congress and left them as lackeys for major corporations and the wealthy. How the 2 parties corruptly maintain a duopoly on power in DC making sure no viable alternatives can emerge nationally etc.

Fair point about the US, the voters are responsible for electing, but the options weren't great - however i do think the argument still stands with regards to the UK, as they had broader options.

The problem is that as long as one person has one vote, regardless of intelligence, or even common sense, then people like Trump / Bush / Johnson etc will always get elected.

I can understand why people of intelligence don't want such roles in their countries, seems to be a headache, but surely some common sense will develop somewhere down the road, and individuals will be put forward who have shown competency?

eire4

golfball37 wrote: »

The electoral college has only once in history done what you suggest in 1824.

My point still stands though. Plus you can also add in that the use of the electoral college in other words going state by state means that elections can and have been won by the candidate with the fewer number of votes nationally. Another example of how undemocratic the US is and the whole electoral college system in electing their president is very much part of that. All again as I say before you even get into the levels of corruption, money, voter suppression etc which has left the US IMHO as an oligarchy today rather then a democracy.

Fr Tod Umptious

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Powell himself or his history are not important. What's important is that a black general publicly attacking Trump might prompt some voters to not vote for Trump. Especially black voters and especially at this time.

And there we have it.

The discussion about Powell is not a about him or his integrity or his actions while in cabinet in the past, it's just about his skin colour and how it is relevant to this election cycle.

Professor Moriarty

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And there we have it.

The discussion about Powell is not a about him or his integrity or his actions while in cabinet in the past, it's just about his skin colour and how it is relevant to this election cycle.

Well, not exclusively. Just mostly.

rossie1977

golfball37 wrote: »

Good job numbers for June and July continuing throughout the summer and I believe the American electorate will do the right thing in November. The campaign to blame Trump for everything from Covid 19 to the murder of George Floyd has traction now but once Biden starts campaigning in earnest I can see Trumps numbers climb

Buck stops with the President always.

Trump has shown he is completely out of his depth last 3 months, first decent crisis and he has no answers. US can not afford another 4 years of this.

Putting an inexperienced TV star in charge was always going to lead to trouble

hotmail.com

rossie1977 wrote: »

Buck stops with the President always.

Trump has shown he is completely out of his depth last 3 months, first decent crisis and he has no answers. US can not afford another 4 years of this.

Putting an inexperienced TV star in charge was always going to lead to trouble

Problem is that if he loses this year, it's likely he'll run in 4 years and get back in.

So 12 years of Trump is really possible. Ideal scenario for CNN.

Carfacemandog

hotmail.com wrote: »

Problem is that if he loses this year, it's likely he'll run in 4 years and get back in.

So 12 years of Trump is really possible. Ideal scenario for CNN.

If Trump loses this year he's likely to be in jail or exile within days of his term ending without the legal immunity he has enjoyed for the last few years, and he and those around him have to be acutely aware of that. It's why there will be some serious shenanigans with the election, or at the rate things are going with his approval ratings the last few months I wouldnt be surprised to see him and Barr just simply try to just have them canceled.

Someone equally as horrible but more competent may have a shot for 2024 if he loses in November, but Trump himself? Not a chance.

eire4

rossie1977 wrote: »

Buck stops with the President always.

Trump has shown he is completely out of his depth last 3 months, first decent crisis and he has no answers. US can not afford another 4 years of this.

Putting an inexperienced TV star in charge was always going to lead to trouble

Also it turns out the job numbers while better then expected were not what was reported Friday instead of going down roughly a percent they miscalculated and the unemployment actually increased. They at first released unemployment numbers at roughly 13.5% down from 14.5% the previous month. But they had to retract that after admitting a miscalculation and that unemployment actually increased to somewhere north of 16% not as bad as some predicted but nonetheless a further increase in unemployment not what was originally published.

eagle eye

eire4 wrote:

My point still stands though. Plus you can also add in that the use of the electoral college in other words going state by state means that elections can and have been won by the candidate with the fewer number of votes nationally. Another example of how undemocratic the US is and the whole electoral college system in electing their president is very much part of that. All again as I say before you even get into the levels of corruption, money, voter suppression etc which has left the US IMHO as an oligarchy today rather then a democracy.

How would you compare it to the EU and the power each country has regardless of population?