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2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

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    #5942
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Colorful commentary... translation, her defense is she’s an entertainer as her 'reporting' doesn’t need to be the least bit accurate and she was merely trafficing in fake news.

    https://www.redstate.com/bradslager/2020/05/28/845430/

    Let's accelerate this to a conclusion shall we.

    I'll respond and say " Isn't that just exactly what Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham do every night?"

    You'll respond with something about how they never try to position themselves as News and that everyone knows and understands that they are "Entertainers/Opinion Commentators " and that Fox News is a bastion of the separation of News and Opinion reporting unlike those swines in CNN and MSNBC.

    I'll respond with multiple examples of where people have believed everything that Hannity,Carlson and Ingraham have said as absolute fact.

    You'll then ignore that and find another snippet from something written by some other poster to deflect and move the argument away from the exposure of yet another example of your staggering cognitive dissonance.

    There - I've saved us both a bit of time.


  • Options
    #5943
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    Do you honestly believe Trump did not want Russia to interfere And expose these emails in the hope they had something that could be used against here during the campaign. If you don’t your one naive old man.
    Well, you at least got one thing right... I am an old man.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #5944
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Let's accelerate this to a conclusion shall we.

    I'll respond and say " Isn't that just exactly what Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham do every night?"

    You'll respond with something about how they never try to position themselves as News and that everyone knows and understands that they are "Entertainers/Opinion Commentators " and that Fox News is a bastion of the separation of News and Opinion reporting unlike those swines in CNN and MSNBC.

    I'll respond with multiple examples of where people have believed everything that Hannity,Carlson and Ingraham have said as absolute fact.

    You'll then ignore that and find another snippet from something written by some other poster to deflect and move the argument away from the exposure of yet another example of your staggering cognitive dissonance.

    There - I've saved us both a bit of time.
    Yes, you got that right... Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham are entertainers and mere commentators, not journalists. But what you fail to include is they, AT LEAST, have the integrity to admit that.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/im-not-a-journalist-hannity-defends-himself-from-claims-hes-a-trump-trumpeter

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #5945
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes, you got that right... Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham are entertainers and mere commentators, not journalists. But what you fail to include is they, AT LEAST, have the integrity to admit that.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/im-not-a-journalist-hannity-defends-himself-from-claims-hes-a-trump-trumpeter
    I'm not a journalist! I'm a talk radio host," he said on his radio show

    What integrity ?


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    #5946
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,602 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes, you got that right... Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham are entertainers and mere commentators, not journalists. But what you fail to include is they, AT LEAST, have the integrity to admit that.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/im-not-a-journalist-hannity-defends-himself-from-claims-hes-a-trump-trumpeter

    No they don’t. Hannity describes himself as an Opinion Journalist. Stop playing


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    #5947
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    Overheal wrote: »
    No they don’t. Hannity describes himself as an Opinion Journalist. Stop playing

    Even Tucker started his tv career as a fact checker ... Look at him now :o:o


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    #5948
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Let's accelerate this to a conclusion shall we.

    I'll respond and say " Isn't that just exactly what Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham do every night?"

    You'll respond with something about how they never try to position themselves as News and that everyone knows and understands that they are "Entertainers/Opinion Commentators " and that Fox News is a bastion of the separation of News and Opinion reporting unlike those swines in CNN and MSNBC.

    I'll respond with multiple examples of where people have believed everything that Hannity,Carlson and Ingraham have said as absolute fact.

    You'll then ignore that and find another snippet from something written by some other poster to deflect and move the argument away from the exposure of yet another example of your staggering cognitive dissonance.

    There - I've saved us both a bit of time.

    Did you just stop reading when you got to there???
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes, you got that right... Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham are entertainers and mere commentators, not journalists. But what you fail to include is they, AT LEAST, have the integrity to admit that.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/im-not-a-journalist-hannity-defends-himself-from-claims-hes-a-trump-trumpeter



    Is it some kind of OCD thing here? , where you have to make us listen to the same set of deflections and cognitive gymnastics each time..

    Can we not just skip to the end like I suggested?


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    #5949
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    kilns wrote: »
    Now it’s obvious you are trolling.

    Mod: Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's trolling. If you have an issue with a post, report it.


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    #5950
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Not what happened at all , but you already knew that..

    For the sake of accuracy, you linked to the court's opinion, not what she (or more accurately, her laywers claimed).

    The submitted motion to strike is here.
    https://timesofsandiego.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/MADDOW-SLAPP.pdf

    It is correct to say that she was in no way forced to admit that she was an 'entertainer, not a journalist' in order to succeed in the court. Given that the underlying data was apparently factual, there was a good argument that the speech was protected under law anyway.

    However, since it is a bad idea to rely simply on one argument, they went further and presented a second.

    In the submission, her lawyers describe her statements as "hyperbolic", "vivid", "colorful commentary" and she was "expressing her opinion and astonishment" in an "opinion-laden, politics-focused discussion." "Ms. Maddow was, quite clearly, offering up her own unique expression of her views " and that "as merely an opinion, it is not capable of being proven false." (As opposed to the statement of facts, in the other part of the argument).

    Thus though they certainly did not claim she was an entertainer, neither are they making anything approximating the claim that she's just reporting the news, let alone in an even-handed manner.


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    #5951
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Barr ordering the tear gassing of peaceful protestors so trump could have a photo op with a bible he didnt even know he owned has led to a new entry on urbandictionary.com

    teargaslighting
    The act of tear gassing peaceful protestors with OC gas and then trying to gaslight your way out of it by saying that it was just a gas that causes tears, not tear gas.


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    #5952
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Mod: Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's trolling. If you have an issue with a post, report it.

    Ok 🀔


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    #5953
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Did you just stop reading when you got to there???





    Is it some kind of OCD thing here? , where you have to make us listen to the same set of deflections and cognitive gymnastics each time..

    Can we not just skip to the end like I suggested?
    You don't get to control the message. I added what you conveniently forgot.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #5954
    HDMI
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭HDMI


    It's not just the news that's the problem, when your done watching the opinion news you change channel to try get a little light hearted comedy and even that's not immune from the sh!t. Many Americans get their news through the likes of Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert not realizing they are also peddling the same opinion news.

    TV over here can be absolute tripe most of the time, it's becoming impossible to switch off from it all. Try watching your favorite TV show and even then it's filled with political nuances.


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    #5955
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    HDMI wrote: »
    It's not just the news that's the problem, when your done watching the opinion news you change channel to try get a little light hearted comedy and even that's not immune from the sh!t. Many Americans get their news through the likes of Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert not realizing they are also peddling the same opinion news.

    TV over here can be absolute tripe most of the time, it's becoming impossible to switch off from it all. Try watching your favorite TV show and even then it's filled with political nuances.

    Are they news sources?


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    #5956
    HDMI
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭HDMI


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Are they news sources?

    Never said they were news sources.


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    #5957
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    HDMI wrote: »
    It's not just the news that's the problem, when your done watching the opinion news you change channel to try get a little light hearted comedy and even that's not immune from the sh!t. Many Americans get their news through the likes of Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert not realizing they are also peddling the same opinion news.

    TV over here can be absolute tripe most of the time, it's becoming impossible to switch off from it all. Try watching your favorite TV show and even then it's filled with political nuances.

    To be fair they are daily shows and need material on a daily basis and Trump just can’t help himself providing material. If he kept his mouth shut and deleted Twitter we wouldn’t have all the hatred as his policies are similar to what most republican presidents would do but it’s his ego that causes all this hatred and comedy

    By the way The Daily Show and John Oliver are by far the best and most intelligent comedy shows out there


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    #5958
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Are they news sources?
    I think many here know no better and believe they are. Democrats, mostly.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #5959
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    HDMI wrote: »
    Never said they were news sources.

    Oh right, you just said:
    Many Americans get their news through the likes of Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert not realizing they are also peddling the same opinion news.

    Getting the news from Entertainment shows which do comedy monologues is probably a bad choice.


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    #5960
    HDMI
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭HDMI


    kilns wrote: »
    To be fair they are daily shows and need material on a daily basis and Trump just can’t help himself providing material. If he kept his mouth shut and deleted Twitter we wouldn’t have all the hatred as his policies are similar to what most republican presidents would do but it’s his ego that causes all this hatred and comedy

    By the way The Daily Show and John Oliver are by far the best and most intelligent comedy shows out there


    Never was a fan of John Oliver, he may be honest and genuine but I just didn't take to his show. We used to just watch the Kimmel and Fallon shows until they started to put too much politics in. We just wanted the comedy and not the politics so we switched off.


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    #5961
    HDMI
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭HDMI


    [PHP][/PHP]
    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Oh right, you just said:



    Getting the news from Entertainment shows which do comedy monologues is probably a bad choice.


    No different than the idiots who get their news from Facebook or Twitter and believe that to be news also.


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    #5962
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    HDMI wrote: »
    Never was a fan of John Oliver, he may be honest and genuine but I just didn't take to his show. We used to just watch the Kimmel and Fallon shows until they started to put too much politics in. We just wanted the comedy and not the politics so we switched off.

    Oliver is a bit more high brow than those two and he doesn’t always go after Trump always he goes after various other topics. It’s the most researched and best topically review programme in the US.


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    #5963
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Oh right, you just said:



    Getting the news from Entertainment shows which do comedy monologues is probably a bad choice.

    Hannitys comedy slot has got really bad over the years ;)


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    #5964
    HDMI
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭HDMI


    kilns wrote: »
    Oliver is a bit more high brow than those two and he doesn’t always go after Trump he goes after various other topics. It’s the most researched and best topically review programme in the US.

    I think it's just his humor I'm not a fan of, we like the keep it simple humor with parents tormenting their kids on Christmas morning before politics became fashionable on their shows. Like I said it's becoming easier to switch off from TV shows that seem to think you want politics in everything.


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    #5965
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    Hannitys comedy slot has got really bad over the years ;)
    I actually somewhat agree. Haven't watched his show in years. Got tired of his soapboxing and him continually beating a dead horse.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #5966
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I think my irony meter just exploded.


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    #5967
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Paying the Russians for dirty intel in order to create a bogus dossier that was used to trick the FISA courts into allowing the Democrat administration and their operatives to spy on a political campaign and then undertake a soft coup against a duly elected president... was trying to go high? Probably the worst political crime in US history. Dear god, I hate to see the bar you’ve set for Democrats going low.

    (I’ve been infected with the dreaded BOARDSVID-503 virus. I guess Boards decided it was best to quarantine me for an expended period of time and was unable to post. Who knew conservative thought spread the dang thing.)
    If you want to consider that as an example, then sure have at it - it was commissioned by Ted Cruz and the republican party after all.

    And then a few months ago, a committee with both Democrat and Republican members reached the finding that Russia did interfere in the election to help Trump.


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    #5968
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    If you want to consider that as an example, then sure have at it - it was commissioned by Ted Cruz and the republican party after all.

    And then a few months ago, a committee with both Democrat and Republican members reached the finding that Russia did interfere in the election to help Trump.
    You might want to consider getting your facts straight before posting fake news. It wasn't originally commissioned by Ted Curz or the republican party during the primary, it was commissioned by a conservative website "The Washington Free Beacon" and then ended once the GOP primary was determined... and Steele was never part of the original project.

    And you might also want to look into that claim Democrats and Republicans concluded the Russians did interfere to help Trump as it seems to be based on faulty intel, as new information indicates the Russians interfered to help Hillary Clinton, not Trump.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #5969
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭eire4


    golfball37 wrote: »
    Not to argue a moot point but you said the college overturned election results including 2000 and 2016. That’s not true. Andrew Jackson was the only winner who was overturned. Winning the popular vote is not winning.

    The rest of your post I pretty much concede you make valid points.

    I was not saying the electoral college overturn the result of an election. The point I was making was that the candidate with the most votes nationally was not elected president due to the electoral college system which saw the candidate with less votes nationally win the election. Apologies if I was unclear in how I expressed that point about the undemocratic nature of the electoral college system.


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    #5970
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭eire4


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Voter turnout is shockingly bad as well for a Western country. Just over half come of the electorate vote in presidential elections and even less for other elections.

    There are two propaganda traits that Americans are fed - that they have democracy and freedom.

    What that actually means in America is anyone's guess. It's a peculiar country.

    No question voter turnout in the US is an embarrassment and even more so for a country that so arrogantly calls itself "leader of the free world". When you average out the presidential and mid term national elections voter turn out is roughly about 50% at a push. The level of corruption and bribery of the congress has left them with what I would term an oligarchy now and certainly not a functioning democracy. But as you say they are fed this constant propaganda about their "democracy" and how free they are which is utterly risible.


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    #5971
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,331 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    BREAKING: The U.S. entered a recession in February, the official arbiter NBER says.

    So before the lockdown?


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