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2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

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    #6632
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    kilns wrote: »
    The only way Biden will look awful in the debates is if he loses his cool with Trump but on the other hand most people will rejoice at that and wouldnt be great TV if he knocked him out live on TV :D

    Trump does not want debates because there is so much ammunition to throw at him and he will have to be in a room where he does not control the narrative and therefore will have to listen to it along with alot of his supporters who probably have not heard a single criticism of him in the last 4 years as they only watch Fox & OANN

    I dont think there will be debates as Trump would rather do his rallies to the converted

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - I do not get the point of rallies , for anyone.

    Why on earth would someone want to go to a Political rally?

    I'm clearly interested in politics and so on , but I just cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to go to listen to any politician at a rally.

    One on One? , sure . Open Forum Q&A? , probably. Townhall Meeting? , maybe.

    Pep-Rally in an Arena? Not a chance in hell.

    What's the purpose? The tickets are free , so it's not a fund-raiser , you're not learning anything about the candidate that you don't already know.

    Just Why??


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    #6633
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,566 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again - I do not get the point of rallies , for anyone.

    Why on earth would someone want to go to a Political rally?

    I'm clearly interested in politics and so on , but I just cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to go to listen to any politician at a rally.

    One on One? , sure . Open Forum Q&A? , probably. Townhall Meeting? , maybe.

    Pep-Rally in an Arena? Not a chance in hell.

    What's the purpose? The tickets are free , so it's not a fund-raiser , you're not learning anything about the candidate that you don't already know.

    Just Why??

    You answered yourself it’s a pep rally. These are the things fascists do:

    “6. Ritualistic Communal Bonding - Rallies are integral to the strength of fascism because they reiterate its core promises: that the nation must be restored to its rightful place in the world, and the leader is solely capable of bringing about that result. ... In Nazi Germany, rallies were choreographed affairs that built party loyalty and glorified nationalistic might. Hitler wrote of the “suggestive ecstasy” that comes with having one’s views affirmed by thousands of fellow rally-goers, and relied heavily on stage lighting and other theatrical effects to enthrall audiences with spectacle. Trump, a show business and social media personality before entering politics, understands the importance of spectacle, too. His “Make America Great Again” rallies are televised rituals in which he encourages attendees to join one another—and him—in acts of cathartic release. (In a recent op-ed, the New York Times’s Jamelle Bouie attributed Trump’s “unbreakable bond" with supporters to the permission he gives them to “express their sense of siege.”)“

    Sense of siege being “THEY don’t want you to hear from me. THEY are out to silence us.” Etc.

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058043510/218/#post113647685


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    #6634
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    frag420 wrote: »
    Can you explain to us what Obamagate is please?

    What are you concerned about exactly?
    One last time... Basically, it involves members of the Obama administration utilizing government agencies to spy on a political campaign, and then the intentional interference with the peaceful transition of power.

    I've now answered that question for the last time!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6635
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    It is possible to acknowledge that Trump is terrible whilst also thinking that Biden is terrible.
    Why would I need to? Will you acknowledge that Biden is terrible whilst also thinking that Trump is terrible?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6636
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Why would I need to? Will you acknowledge that Biden is terrible whilst also thinking that Trump is terrible?

    I'd give Biden 7/10. Trump 1/10 - 1 out of pity.


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    #6637
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    ha ha nice try.

    One question if you think Biden is crooked, do you think Trump is straight as an arrow?
    Yes I think Biden is crooked. And I believe Trump has been investigated by Congress and the press more than any other president in US history... and nothing has stuck. So after three years I guess that proves Trump is not crooked, unless something else comes up at a later date.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6638
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Overheal wrote: »
    You answered yourself it’s a pep rally. These are the things fascists do:

    “6. Ritualistic Communal Bonding - Rallies are integral to the strength of fascism because they reiterate its core promises: that the nation must be restored to its rightful place in the world, and the leader is solely capable of bringing about that result. ... In Nazi Germany, rallies were choreographed affairs that built party loyalty and glorified nationalistic might. Hitler wrote of the “suggestive ecstasy” that comes with having one’s views affirmed by thousands of fellow rally-goers, and relied heavily on stage lighting and other theatrical effects to enthrall audiences with spectacle. Trump, a show business and social media personality before entering politics, understands the importance of spectacle, too. His “Make America Great Again” rallies are televised rituals in which he encourages attendees to join one another—and him—in acts of cathartic release. (In a recent op-ed, the New York Times’s Jamelle Bouie attributed Trump’s “unbreakable bond" with supporters to the permission he gives them to “express their sense of siege.”)“

    Sense of siege being “THEY don’t want you to hear from me. THEY are out to silence us.” Etc.

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058043510/218/#post113647685


    To be fair, they all hold rallies in the US - Whether Biden holds any this time remains to be seen but under normal circumstances you'd expect that he would and I wouldn't understand that either.


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    #6639
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes I think Biden is crooked. And I believe Trump has been investigated by Congress and the press more than any other president in US history... and nothing has stuck. So after three years I guess that proves Trump is not crooked, unless something else comes up at a later date.

    Did you miss the whole "Unindicted Co-conspirator" thing in the Cohen Trial?

    And lot's of things will come up "at a later date" when he can no longer hide behind Bill Barr and "Presidential Immunity"


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    #6640
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    The only way Biden will look awful in the debates is if he loses his cool with Trump but on the other hand most people will rejoice at that and wouldnt be great TV if he knocked him out live on TV :D

    Trump does not want debates because there is so much ammunition to throw at him and he will have to be in a room where he does not control the narrative and therefore will have to listen to it along with alot of his supporters who probably have not heard a single criticism of him in the last 4 years as they only watch Fox & OANN

    I dont think there will be debates as Trump would rather do his rallies to the converted
    The only way I believe Biden won’t look bad in the debates is if the moderators become actively biased on Biden’s behalf and give him a pass on anything questionable, and instead go on the attack of Trump, as happened with in the Romney/Obama debate by CNN’s Candy Crowler, who was later fired for those actions.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6641
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes I think Biden is crooked. And I believe Trump has been investigated by Congress and the press more than any other president in US history... and nothing has stuck. So after three years I guess that proves Trump is not crooked, unless something else comes up at a later date.

    Evidence for Biden being crooked then please if you think that Trump is not, considering Trump has been far from transparent


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    #6642
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The only way I believe Biden won’t look bad in the debates is if the moderators become actively biased on Biden’s behalf and give him a pass on anything questionable, and instead go on the attack of Trump, as happened with in the Romney/Obama debate by CNN’s Candy Crowler, who was later fired for those actions.

    I am beginning to think you have never even heard Trump speak, a 8 year child has a bigger vocabulary and no doubt can argue a point better.


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    #6643
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    Evidence for Biden being crooked then please if you think that Trump is not, considering Trump has been far from transparent
    His getting a Ukraine prosecutor fired who was investigating the company his son was on the board, by threatening to withhold millions in aid for the country. Also he was involved in Obamagate as he was present during the meeting where they discussed the illegal spying on Flynn.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #6644
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    notobtuse wrote: »
    His getting a Ukraine prosecutor fired who was investigating the company his son was on the board, by threatening to withhold millions in aid for the country. Also he was involved in Obamagate as he was present during the meeting where they discussed the illegal spying on Flynn.

    You are insulting your own intelligence with this crap.


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    #6645
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,566 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    One last time... Basically, it involves members of the Obama administration utilizing government agencies to spy on a political campaign, and then the intentional interference with the peaceful transition of power.

    I've now answered that question for the last time!

    But there was a peaceful translation of power..

    And now that you bring that up it will be fascinating to watch how peacefully trump transfers power in January.

    Shock and horror that the executive branch utilized executive powers to investigate illegal conduct.


  • Options
    #6646
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    You are insulting your own intelligence with this crap.
    Ah, I understand, ‘Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain?’ Right?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6647
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,566 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    His getting a Ukraine prosecutor fired who was investigating the company his son was on the board, by threatening to withhold millions in aid for the country. Also he was involved in Obamagate as he was present during the meeting where they discussed the illegal spying on Flynn.

    Oh good lords we are still on this?

    Biden greatly overplayed his involvement to a crowd the other year. The facts show that. The EU the IMF and the US government (filled largely with Republicans) all supported Shokin being ousted for failure to do his job of policing corruption.


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    #6648
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,566 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    To be fair, they all hold rallies in the US - Whether Biden holds any this time remains to be seen but under normal circumstances you'd expect that he would and I wouldn't understand that either.

    It’s normal during election season.

    It’s not normal throughout the entire presidency. Trump started holding election 2020 rallies weeks into his presidency.

    It is NORMAL for a president to hold PUBLIC rallies and town halls but Trump has never held a public rally or town hall. All of his events are ticketed so they can pick and choose the audience. The optics of having to engage dissenting views would be devastating to Trump overall.


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    #6649
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Ah, I understand, ‘Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain?’ Right?

    or pay no attention to conspiracy theories and instead ask why doesn't my President release his tax returns, considering he is straight as an arrow and has nothing to hide. I know you will do your usual deflect or play dumb in response but you know as well as everyone else he is up to eyes in sh1t and that is why those returns dont see the light of day


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    #6650
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,787 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Ah, I understand, ‘Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain?’ Right?

    Hey maybe the man was just inspecting the curtain?


    Thats a totally legitimate line.


  • Options
    #6651
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    The first rule of Joe’s Economic Advisors is: you do not talk about Economic Advisors. The second rule about Economic Advisors is: you do NOT TALK about Economic Advisors?

    So we’re supposed to vote for Biden because he’s going to fix the economy, but we’re not allowed to know who his economic advisers are. Well, that instills a great amount of confidence.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/politics/joe-biden-campaign-economy.html

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6652
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,609 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The first rule of Joe’s Economic Advisors is: you do not talk about Economic Advisors. The second rule about Economic Advisors is: you do NOT TALK about Economic Advisors?

    So we’re supposed to vote for Biden because he’s going to fix the economy, but we’re not allowed to know who his economic advisers are. Well, that instills a great amount of confidence.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/politics/joe-biden-campaign-economy.html

    But the NYT is a biased left-leaning rag, right? Isn't that what you said?

    Because the article had lots of information about Biden's advisers - they're not listing names to the press. I say give it time, it's just June. And Biden's economic team, thanks to the #IMPOTUS abject mishandling of every aspect of the economy from the day he took office, will require a LOT of work and planning. Two things the #IMPOTUS never values - hard work and planning. Off to the golf course today, though. Things are great, only around 1000 deaths/day due to Covid.


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    #6653
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The first rule of Joe’s Economic Advisors is: you do not talk about Economic Advisors. The second rule about Economic Advisors is: you do NOT TALK about Economic Advisors?

    So we’re supposed to vote for Biden because he’s going to fix the economy, but we’re not allowed to know who his economic advisers are. Well, that instills a great amount of confidence.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/politics/joe-biden-campaign-economy.html

    I am sure Biden is taking his time and picking "the very best people"


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    #6654
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,566 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The first rule of Joe’s Economic Advisors is: you do not talk about Economic Advisors. The second rule about Economic Advisors is: you do NOT TALK about Economic Advisors?

    So we’re supposed to vote for Biden because he’s going to fix the economy, but we’re not allowed to know who his economic advisers are. Well, that instills a great amount of confidence.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/politics/joe-biden-campaign-economy.html

    The irony of this post coming from someone who I have very little doubt was impressed with Trump who revealed nothing of who he would hire or how he would defeat ISIS in 30 days

    “I’ll hire the best people.” “I know more than the generals.”

    But who will you hire?

    “The best people you’ll see.”

    MAGA: “Wow goosebumps our next president”


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    #6655
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    kilns wrote: »
    I am sure Biden is taking his time and picking "the very best people"
    mememe_31fb4d6ebdf8604e7df4262ee8eaee85-1.jpg

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #6656
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    notobtuse wrote: »
    mememe_31fb4d6ebdf8604e7df4262ee8eaee85-1.jpg

    Is this a meme for Trump? I am confused.

    Dont worry America everything is going to be ok, Trump is going to solve the middle east problems by getting his son in law to read a few books on the topic and while he is at it he can oversee a few reforms too and while I am at I will hire a white supremist to run immigration but dont worry about every one I hired and quit they were all second rate, not up to the job. Genius at work here lads no need to worry


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    #6657
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,566 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    kilns wrote: »
    Is this a meme for Trump? I am confused.

    Dont worry America everything is going to be ok, Trump is going to solve the middle east problems by getting his son in law to read a few books on the topic and while he is at it he can oversee a few reforms too. Genius at work here lads no need to worry

    It’s the mayor from Jaws

    Baghdad Bob is also applicable


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    #6658
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    notobtuse wrote: »
    The first rule of Joe’s Economic Advisors is: you do not talk about Economic Advisors. The second rule about Economic Advisors is: you do NOT TALK about Economic Advisors?

    So we’re supposed to vote for Biden because he’s going to fix the economy, but we’re not allowed to know who his economic advisers are. Well, that instills a great amount of confidence.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/us/politics/joe-biden-campaign-economy.html

    yet you have confidence in trump who wont let anyone see his tax returns because they are so complex that only he himself can understand them yet there are billionaires the world over who have no issue with showing their tax returns, billionaires with far more complex business interests that trump!


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    #6659
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,458 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Overheal wrote: »
    It’s the mayor from Jaws

    Baghdad Bob is also applicable

    The same mayor, who in the book, was at the behest of the Mob


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    #6660
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Overheal wrote: »
    It’s the mayor from Jaws

    Baghdad Bob is also applicable

    I know it is, the mayor represents Trump and Sherrif Briody represents the democrats trying to sort out his mess


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    #6661
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    I find it astonishing that those here who have condemned whataboutery for ages, when someone on the right dared to comment on the left's hypocrisy, now embrace and promote it because Biden is such a bad candidate.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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