2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

mcmoustache

2u2me wrote: »

Come on you know what's what I meant. He closed the borders TO china. Would you give him credit for that?

Or should he have done more and not permitted any Chinese people from connecting flights? Something Akin to Taiwain's response.

Let's say some muppet started a bath upstairs and, i don't know, went to bed or dropped dead or something and left the tap running.


You're down stairs with your family watching one of them shows that's been on for years where people are shouting at each other, fighting and having affairs.


First, your wife notices some drops landing on the baby's head and asks you if maybe something's wrong. You say there might be a few drips, 15 or so and it'll just go away.


It doesn't go away. Soon there are 50 drips coming from the ceiling and your family is getting anxious. It's time to take decisive action. In your infinite wisdom, you decide to block up one of the 50-odd drips with some polyfila, some silicon, some putty and a bit of lime until the drip stops in that spot. You go back to your chair and your show just in time to see the bald man on tv say something sinister to another bald guy, content that you have taken decisive action against the problem.


This solution isn't quite enough and your wife and kids continue complaining. What the hell more do they want you to do, you ask. You already stopped one of the drips. Shouldn't that be enough for them?


Your wife then finds out that the previous owners left a trouble shooting guide in the hot press and one of problems covered is how to deal with rain in the living room. The answer is a bit complicated, something about checking to see if the bath is overflowing upstairs and turning off the tap. You think to yourself, feck that, I already stopped one of the drips.


Your living room continues to flood and your ungrateful family pleads with you to do something. Your wife wonders out loud if maybe stopping one drip wasn't really enough. A nasty question you think to yourself before saying it out loud and asking her where she's from; China perhaps? Again, you tell her how you're doing as great job and that many people have been saying that you're doing a great job. A tremendous job, even. Remember, you stopped one of the drips which was really decisive.


Some of your kids think your doing a sh!t job as a dad, as does your wife. The other two kids think you're doing a great job and tell you as much. You reward them my handing them two of the three umbrellas in the house and keep the other for yourself.


The flood continues, with no end in sight. But that's not the problem here, you think to yourself. Some of your family has been ungrateful despite the great job you're doing and the decisive action that you took. You now spend your evening angrily ranting and rambling about them under your umbrella. How can they not see that you took decisive action?


You stopped a drip. And the house continues to drip. But you're doing a great job, you think to yourself.

weisses

I hope Trump gets re elected...we need someone with his intellect and vision to get the US through this pandemic and depression that follows straight after... We cannot have a Democrat at the helm to get this done...

MadYaker

2u2me wrote: »

It was one small part of a bigger picture. Every small part counts massively in managing the curve. The point remains that Trump wasn't given credit for this one small good thing he did, instead called a racist by mainstream media and democrats.

It happens over and over. People see through it. They are their own worst enemy.

He wasn’t given credit because everyone with a brain could see it for what it was. An extension of his stupid trade war. It was obvious from his own comments right up until 2 weeks ago that he didn't think the virus was a major issue so how could it have been his motivation for the ban?

Have you seen any examples of an elected democrat politician calling him a racist because of that flight ban? Or anyone from one of the mainstream media outlets actually using the word racist in relation to the ban? I never saw it.

Carfacemandog

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Fake news. I realise the lefties are all saying he said that but what he in fact said was "It's going to disappear one day".

You curiously appear to have left out some of the quote yourself too. What he said was "it's going to disappear. One day, It's like a miracle, it will disappear."

I'm curious why you didn't include that second part of the quote?



And as for when 'one day' will be, he also stated a month ago that this would be soon, when he sat beside our own Taoiseach and said "it will all go very quickly."

That was on March 12th. At this stage the US had 1,323 cases and 38 deaths. In the month since, cases in the US have gone up by 38,000% to 503,000 while deaths have risen from 38 to 18,750 - an increase of 49,000%.

This isn't showing signs of going anywhere quickly, and if it does it is going to be due to medical scientists managing to get a vaccine, and not just by some 'miracle' which is what somebody hopes for when they have are in over their head.

Outlaw Pete

MadYaker wrote: »

Not sure why you’re talking about him being a racist? I never said that.

It's a constant theme that he's a racist. In fact elsewhere on Boards there are recent posts suggesting he was happy to hear that African Americans would die in disportionate numbers from the virus. I didn't respond as I didn't want to get banned. Can't abide that race baiting nonsense.

I also never said he should impose more travel restrictions, so don’t try to imply that I did.

You said:

MadYaker wrote: »

He stopped flights from China, didn’t ban Chinese citizens or flights from anywhere else. Just flights coming directly from China, numerous other countries had cases at this point, no restrictions on people coming from anywhere else.

Why else would you be pointing out that he didn't ban flights from other countries if not to suggest that he should have?

He restricted travel from where thousands were suffering from a new highly contagious virus which many were dying from. Why can you not commend that? Wouldn't mean you couldn't still say he should have implemented other measures too.

You can take a different meaning from his words if it makes you feel better but the fact is he downplayed this for as long as he possibly could.

You quoted him as saying something he didn't say. As for downplaying the virus, he often said it could get substantially worse but those quotes are always ignored [but either side can play at that game: see below]. What Trump was saying was what pretty much everyone was saying at the time including the CDC, much of the media (both left and right) and many democrats:

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1245385767729463297

How would you rate his performance out of ten on his response to Coronavirus?

I think Trump did/and is doing, as good a job as could and can be expected, all things considered, but I think he would have fared much better had the information coming from China being better than it was but that goes for many leaders and their administrations, not just the US's. The US administration clearly followed the lead of CDC and Fauci and I see no evidence that Trump ignored any of their requests. On the contrary, Fauci has made it clear multiple times now that Trump did everything he asked of him.

2u2me

mcmoustache wrote: »

[...]

Look I know what you're saying here. But alter your analogy slightly, Imagine there is a torrent of water coming for us and the only thing in the way is this wall full of holes. It is absolutely imperative that we plug every hole, or as many holes as possible to stand the best chance of not drowning.

Trump was plugging one of these holes, we wasn't given the proper credit. There were many more holes that required plugging, but like the Swedes the US seem to have adopted a different approach.

MadYaker

So according to you he never downplayed the seriousness of the situation and is doing as good as can be expected? I’ve not seen videos of him taking seriously until recently. That’s an interesting viewpoint. You know South Korea and the USA has their first case on the extract same day? I would say the South Koreans are doing as well as can be expected and the USA is floundering and it’s all down to the leadership.

You said democrat politicians and MSM called him racist over the travel ban, turns out it was actually just some nutter on boards. You need to stop picking one nutters viewpoint and convincing yourself that everyone who critiques trump thinks the same thing.

You keep posting that quote from Fauci as if it means anything. You know very well that he’d be out of the job if he were to say anything negative about trump.

The fact that you think trump is doing a good job is part of the problem. Have you just forgotten what good governance looks like? The USA needs to start holding its leaders to waaaaay higher standards or the American decline we’ve been witnessing for the last few years is going to continue and probably accelerate.

ohnonotgmail

weisses wrote: »

I hope Trump gets re elected...we need someone with his intellect and vision to get the US through this pandemic and depression that follows straight after... We cannot have a Democrat at the helm to get this done...

Parody really is dead.

iebamm2580

MadYaker wrote: »

So according to you he never downplayed the seriousness of the situation and is doing as good as can be expected? I’ve not seen videos of him taking seriously until recently. That’s an interesting viewpoint. You know South Korea and the USA has their first case on the extract same day? I would say the South Koreans are doing as well as can be expected and the USA is floundering and it’s all down to the leadership.

You said democrat politicians and MSM called him racist over the travel ban, turns out it was actually just some nutter on boards. You need to stop picking one nutters viewpoint and convincing yourself that everyone who critiques trump thinks the same thing.

You keep posting that quote from Fauci as if it means anything. You know very well that he’d be out of the job if he were to say anything negative about trump.

The fact that you think trump is doing a good job is part of the problem. Have you just forgotten what good governance looks like? The USA needs to start holding its leaders to waaaaay higher standards or the American decline we’ve been witnessing for the last few years is going to continue and probably accelerate.

Are you saying fauci is lying so to keep his job, you are on here basically stating that about one of the top docs in america, Hes 79 if you think he gives a **** about trump you are deluded, he was asked a question and answered it and now you have people saying the the doc is lying to keep his job because no way could trump actually do the right thing and listen to his docs (btw thats evidently whats actually happening), do people ever read back over there thoughts before they post, seems trump derangement syndrome is real.

iebamm2580

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Are you saying fauci is lying so to keep his job, you are on here basically stating that about one of the top docs in america, Hes 79 if you think he gives a **** about trump you are deluded, he was asked a question and answered it and now you have people saying the the doc is lying to keep his job because no way could trump actually do the right thing and listen to his docs (btw thats evidently whats actually happening), do people ever read back over there thoughts before they post, seems trump derangement syndrome is real.

I imagine it's less so about the personal hit than the fact Trump could actively make the situation worse without the likes of Fauci. So Fauci humours his ego and fair enough.

MadYaker

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Are you saying fauci is lying so to keep his job, you are on here basically stating that about one of the top docs in america, Hes 79 if you think he gives a **** about trump you are deluded, he was asked a question and answered it and now you have people saying the the doc is lying to keep his job because no way could trump actually do the right thing and listen to his docs (btw thats evidently whats actually happening), do people ever read back over there thoughts before they post, seems trump derangement syndrome is real.

I never said he was lying. I think you need to read what I posted again because you clearly haven’t understood it.

Edit: or read protonmikes post above, he gets it.

MadYaker

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You couldn't make it up...

So, whilst the scientific community heralds social distancing measures within China (and elsewhere) as what reduced the number of COVID-19 cases, closing the border to the country where the virus originated did "nothing to stop the spread of the disease" - it was but a "dog whistle"? Ha.

When you consider it in the context of him doing nothing else other than the flight ban and the constant downplaying then yes its absolutely a dog whistle.

The scientific community heralds social distancing measures, does Trump even know what social distancing is? Every day he stands on crowded podium to rant and rave at the press.

duploelabs

MadYaker wrote: »

When you consider it in the context of him doing nothing else other than the flight ban and the constant downplaying then yes its absolutely a dog whistle.

The scientific community heralds social distancing measures, does Trump even know what social distancing is? Every day he stands on crowded podium to rant and rave at the press.

What Pete misses with his orange blinkers on is that closing the borders did absolutely nothing but dogwhistle as the virus had already had already hit American shores.
I can't think of a better analogy than closing the barn door after the horse had bolted

2u2me

duploelabs wrote: »

What Pete misses with his orange blinkers on is that closing the borders did absolutely nothing but dogwhistle as the virus had already had already hit American shores.
I can't think of a better analogy than closing the barn door after the horse had bolted

Here's a better analogy, just because one drop of rain fell on your head doesn't mean you should stop using an umbrella.

Carfacemandog

2u2me wrote: »

Here's a better analogy, just because one drop of rain fell on your head doesn't mean you should stop using an umbrella.

If you are using this analogy, you would need to add that:

1. Trump saw on the weather that bad rain was coming.
2. Many of the members of Trumps house had already warned him that this was actually going to be an historic hurricane, and to prepare for it accordingly.
3. Trump ignored them, and decided to walk out boll*ck naked to save some money on the laundry.
4. When he began to get wet, Trump claimed it was all a hoax made up by that bitch Karen from down the street. At most, it was just some light drizzle that would end soon.
5. Trump, now soaking wet and wearing no clothes, opened up an umbrella riddled with holes over his head and claimed this would keep him dry.
5. When the hurricane got even worse, Trump claimed he always knew a hurricane was coming and was super prepared.
6. Trump then started stealing clothes from smaller people caught out in the same hurricane while directing members of his house to make sure some of the tenants there are not given the clothes they had put away for a bad weather event.

To explain:
1. We knew about the Wuhan virus as early as the new year.
2. Trump knew earlier, and was informed of how severe it would be (FOI emails).
3. Trump claimed this was nothing serious and would just go away 'like a miracle'. According to him this global pandemic was somehow a democrat hoax from the get go.
4. Trump closed flights from China, but this did nothing to address people coming from other affected countries, or that was already spreading through the US.
5. Trump has since claimed he always knew a pandemic was coming despite his earlier statements to the contrary, and that it was totally under control.
6. Trump has since directed the US to steal supplies of PPE and ventilators from smaller nations who desperately.need them. At the same time as this, he has left potentially millions of Americans to die by denying PPE and ventilators to states badly impacted.



I don't know about you, but I would not want the above person go be the head of any household I lived in nor would I trust anything else they have to say about said hurricane. Some in this analogy though, seem happy to sit there and claim that he the naked emperor does indeed have clothes on and always had.

iebamm2580

MadYaker wrote: »

I never said he was lying. I think you need to read what I posted again because you clearly haven’t understood it.

Edit: or read protonmikes post above, he gets it.

Deleted User wrote: »

I imagine it's less so about the personal hit than the fact Trump could actively make the situation worse without the likes of Fauci. So Fauci humours his ego and fair enough.

Again thats a presumption you are making about fauci humoring his ego, fauci said what he said and people here are trying to somehow twist it, based on faucis answer he is happy with what trump is doing and thats all we have to go on other than idle speculation of what he meant.

MadYaker

He fires people who say mean things about him. Doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Fauci is trying to keep his job so he can stop this sh!t show of an administration from getting even more people killed and I commend him for it but it means he has to be very careful about everything he does and says.

iebamm2580

MadYaker wrote: »

He fires people who say mean things about him. Doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Fauci is trying to keep his job so he can stop this sh!t show of an administration from getting even more people killed and I commend him for it but it means he has to be very careful about everything he does and says.

My point is its still a presumption and should not be used in any argument, its speculation simple as. We can only go on what was actually said and just because its a slight positive towards trump doesnt mean it can be disregarded and interpreted other than what was factually said.

duploelabs

MadYaker wrote: »

He fires people who say mean things about him. Doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together. Fauci is trying to keep his job so he can stop this sh!t show of an administration from getting even more people killed and I commend him for it but it means he has to be very careful about everything he does and says.

If Fauci didn't have the hippocratic oath, I would say he'd have walked long ago

iebamm2580

duploelabs wrote: »

If Fauci didn't have the hippocratic oath, I would say he'd have walked long ago

Idle speculation.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Again thats a presumption you are making about fauci humoring his ego, fauci said what he said and people here are trying to somehow twist it, based on faucis answer he is happy with what trump is doing and thats all we have to go on other than idle speculation of what he meant.

Funny timing, this came out today. Fauci in an interview with CNN, and he doesn't sound like someone who is happy with how this has been handled.

He seems like he is trying to get the truth out there while waking in eggshells. I'm getting the feeling he may now be on borrowed time if he doesn't shut his mouth until told otherwise moving forward, or risk getting fired like Trump did with the investigator general this week for simply following their legal obligations in their roles, and a navy general last week for rescuing the men on his infected ship.


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/12/politics/anthony-fauci-pushback-coronavirus-measures-cnntv/index.html

FAUCI:

"I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives,"

"But you're right, I mean, obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then."

Asked why the President didn't recommend social distancing guidelines until mid-March -- about three weeks after the nation's top health experts recommended they be put in place -- Fauci said, "You know, Jake, as I have said many times, we look at it from a pure health standpoint. We make a recommendation. Often, the recommendation is taken. Sometimes it's not. But we -- it is what it is. We are where we are right now."

"Hopefully, hopefully, what we have gone through now and the capability that we have for much, much better testing capability, much, much better surveillance capability, and the ability to respond with countermeasures, with drugs that work, that it will be an entirely different ball game," he said.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Funny timing, this came out today. Fauci in an interview with CNN, and he doesn't sound like someone who is happy with how this has been handled.

He seems like he is trying to get the truth out there while waking in eggshells. I'm getting the feeling he may now be on borrowed time if he doesn't shut his mouth until told otherwise moving forward, or risk getting fired like Trump did with the investigator general this week for simply following their legal obligations in their roles, and a navy general last week for rescuing the men on his infected ship.


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/12/politics/anthony-fauci-pushback-coronavirus-measures-cnntv/index.html

FAUCI:

"I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives,"

"But you're right, I mean, obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then."

Asked why the President didn't recommend social distancing guidelines until mid-March -- about three weeks after the nation's top health experts recommended they be put in place -- Fauci said, "You know, Jake, as I have said many times, we look at it from a pure health standpoint. We make a recommendation. Often, the recommendation is taken. Sometimes it's not. But we -- it is what it is. We are where we are right now."

"Hopefully, hopefully, what we have gone through now and the capability that we have for much, much better testing capability, much, much better surveillance capability, and the ability to respond with countermeasures, with drugs that work, that it will be an entirely different ball game," he said.

Obviously things could have been better if they shutdown earlier, that doesn't take away from my point that people twist what people say about trump to suit there arguments. If people just stuck to facts and stop twisting, im not pro or against trump btw just dont like idle speculation of what a person is thinking to suit an argument, its pointless.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Obviously things could have been better if they shutdown earlier, that doesn't take away from my point that people twist what people say about trump to suit there arguments. If people just stuck to facts and stop twisting, im not pro or against trump btw just dont like idle speculation of what a person is thinking to suit an argument, its pointless.

While I generally agree with you, Trump has serious form for firing almost anyone who isn't completely loyal to him, and is currently letting Americans die by the bucket load of their states governors don't grovel enough for his liking to be given ventilators.

Xi and Putin also rarely face criticism from anyone in any way related to their government, do you think that's because these people consider those two to always be correct, or because they know what will happen if they cross a certain line?

It's also why it will be interesting to see if fauci says similar things moving forward, and if they keep him around should he do so. Firing him would be a pr disaster of epic proportions given who he is and his credibility/trust across the aisle.

2u2me

Carfacemandog wrote: »

"But you're right, I mean, obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then."

There was pushback from all sides not just Trump. Everyone was laughing at China going into lockdown. It seems unfair to single out Trump, but I guess this is the thread for it.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

While I generally agree with you, Trump has serious form for firing almost anyone who isn't completely loyal to him, and is currently letting Americans die by the bucket load of their states governors don't grovel enough for his liking to be given ventilators.

Xi and Putin also rarely face criticism from anyone in any way related to their government, do you think that's because these people consider those two to always be correct, or because they know what will happen if they cross a certain line?

It's also why it will be interesting to see if fauci says similar things moving forward, and if they keep him around should he do so. Firing him would be a pr disaster of epic proportions given who he is and his credibility/trust across the aisle.

Yeah we all know trump loves his ass licked but fauci couldn't give 2 ****s about trump, hes 79 and a new-yorker and he is not going to pander to trump as evidenced by the cnn interview so thats why when a small bit of praise from him towards trump shouldn't be twisted to a negative just because you dislike trump. He cant fire fauci and he knows it, the Americans love the doc.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Yeah we all know trump loves his ass licked but fauci couldn't give 2 ****s about trump, hes 79 and a new-yorker and he is not going to pander to trump as evidenced by the cnn interview so thats why when a small bit of praise from him towards trump shouldn't be twisted to a negative just because you dislike trump. He cant fire fauci and he knows it, the Americans love the doc.

I wouldn't count on him knowing he can't fire Fauci, as he said himself he could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not pose a voter. He hasn't gone that far, but the basis of that statement has been proven correct over the last 3 and a half years. If he hypothetically fired fauci tonight, I think we both know the hardcore Trump supporters would get 100% behind it immediately.

Of course, those around Trump would be doing all they can to stop him from doing so, in that hypotethical, because the middle ground voter would not view it well. But logic doesn't always come that we'll to Trump.

As for the intlitial conversation here over the statement, you may be confusing me with someone else as I never ommented on it. I put the cnn interview in because I thought it was quite apt for the back and forth, and the timing of it coming out regarding where this thread is at right now.

Carfacemandog

2u2me wrote: »

There was pushback from all sides not just Trump. Everyone was laughing at China going into lockdown. It seems unfair to single out Trump, but I guess this is the thread for it.

I don't know how to break this to you, but I am not Dr. Anthony Fauci.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I wouldn't count on him knowing he can't fire Fauci, as he said himself he could shoot a man on 5th avenue and not pose a voter. He hasn't gone that far, but the basis of that statement has been proven correct over the last 3 and a half years. If he hypothetically fired fauci tonight, I think we both know the hardcore Trump supporters would get 100% behind it immediately.

Of course, those around Trump would be doing all they can to stop him from doing so, in that hypotethical, because the middle ground voter would not view it well. But logic doesn't always come that we'll to Trump.

As for the intlitial conversation here over the statement, you may be confusing me with someone else as I never ommented on it. I put the cnn interview in because I thought it was quite apt for the back and forth, and the timing of it coming out regarding where this thread is at right now.

Yeah i know it was apt but it wasn't anything to do with my point i was making to others about idle speculation to suit an argument-its nonsense.

ohnonotgmail

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Yeah i know it was apt but it wasn't anything to do with my point i was making to others about idle speculation to suit an argument-its nonsense.

I really cant understand what your end game is here. Trump cares more about the ratings for his press briefings than he does about people dying. All he cares about is how much this will affect his reelection. If that means going back to normal too soon and more people die then trump wont care about the extra deaths. If you think Fauci isnt being told what to say then you are deluded. trump could fire him tomorrow and Trumps base wouldn't care.

iebamm2580

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I really cant understand what your end game is here. Trump cares more about the ratings for his press briefings than he does about people dying. All he cares about is how much this will affect his reelection. If that means going back to normal too soon and more people die then trump wont care about the extra deaths. If you think Fauci isnt being told what to say then you are deluded. trump could fire him tomorrow and Trumps base wouldn't care.

End game, what are you talking about, you are looking too deep into my posts, its clear from the cnn interview fauci isnt being told what to say, so its you are the one thats deluded.