2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

sid waddell

Danzy wrote: »

This won't be the bloody catastrophe that you hope for there.

I'm not sure which is more disturbing about this post - the claim that what's happening the US right now is not a catastrophe - you'd have to be a full blow sociopath to believe what is happening is not a catastrophe - or the blatant trolling that people who quite rightly despise Trump over his disgraceful, sociopathic handling of Coronavirus are hoping for a catastrophe.

Either way, it's very disturbing.

Carfacemandog

Quin_Dub wrote: »

What on earth is this obsessive belief from Trump supporters that anyone critical of how badly Trump is handling this is somehow gleeful or happy that people are dying when they shouldn't be??.

Projection, most likely. It's pretty much always projection with that lot.

Same reason they squeal like pigs about "violent leftists" yet worship a wife beater who calls attendees of a white supremacist rally fine people and are trying as hard as possible the last 24 hours to change topic from Druggie Donnies call for an armed uprising.

FVP3

duploelabs wrote: »

So who switched off when they read 'deep state'?

It's a bit odd to believe that the CIA, or assorted agencies, don't exist, but each to their own. If the term Deep State upsets you, let's call them Tooth Fairies.

Since we are still on Epstein here, his original case was pea bargained down from multiple , perhaps thousands of prosecutions , to one he pleaded guilty to[/B] , a sample case proposed by the Florida US Attorney Alexander Acosta, later a member of Trump's cabinet. He himself says he was pressured by the, er, tooth fairies.

Here is what wiki says

In July 2006, the FBI began its own investigation of Epstein, nicknamed "Operation Leap Year".[98] It resulted in a 53-page indictment in June 2007 that was never presented to a grand jury.[62] Alexander Acosta, then the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, agreed to a plea deal, which Alan Dershowitz helped to negotiate,[99] to grant immunity from all federal criminal charges to Epstein, along with four named co-conspirators and any unnamed "potential co-conspirators". According to the Miami Herald, the non-prosecution agreement "essentially shut down an ongoing FBI probe into whether there were more victims and other powerful people who took part in Epstein's sex crimes". At the time, this halted the investigation and sealed the indictment. The Miami Herald said: "Acosta agreed, despite a federal law to the contrary, that the deal would be kept from the victims."[8]

Acosta later said he offered a lenient plea deal because he was told that Epstein "belonged to intelligence", was "above his pay grade" and to "leave it alone".[45][46][100] Epstein agreed to plead guilty in Florida state court to two felony prostitution charges, register as a sex offender, and pay restitution to three dozen victims identified by the FBI.[8][82] The plea deal was later described as a "sweetheart deal".[101]

A federal judge later found that the prosecutors had violated the victims' rights in that they had concealed the agreement from the victims and instead urged them to have "patience".

So it does look like the Tooth Fairies did in fact interfere here.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

What on earth is this obsessive belief from Trump supporters that anyone critical of how badly Trump is handling this is somehow gleeful or happy that people are dying when they shouldn't be??

It is frankly more than a little twisted.

The only people that seem inured to unnecessary loss of life are those agitating for a rapid relaxation of restrictions in order to boost the economy in time to save Trump's re-election chances.

Trump badly handled this???? Apparently delusion brought on by Trump Derangement Syndrome has no bounds.

Have we bent/flattened the curve or not? Well??? That was the only goal of all the quarantines, shelter-in-place, travel restrictions, and business closing mandates... nothing more. From the chart below it sure looks like we have, other than downstate New York, which has only the ineptitude of their DEMOCRAT governor and DEMOCRAT NYC mayor to thank for it. And the New York numbers are adversely skewing the national numbers. But even New York governor Andrew Cuomo said they're making great progress (thanks much in part with Trump getting New York what they needed and asked for) with current restrictions there in his last few statements. So Trump is right, it IS time to start reopening businesses in a safe manner to get the economy back on track.

MadYaker

notobtuse wrote: »

Trump badly handled this???? Apparently delusion brought on by Trump Derangement Syndrome has no bounds.

Have we bent/flattened the curve or not? Well??? That was the only goal of all the quarantines, shelter-in-place, travel restrictions, and business closing mandates... nothing more. From the chart below it sure looks like we have, other than downstate New York, which has only the ineptitude of their DEMOCRAT governor and DEMOCRAT NYC mayor to thank for it. And the New York numbers are adversely skewing the national numbers. But even New York governor Andrew Cuomo said they're making great progress (thanks much in part with Trump getting New York what they needed and asked for) with current restrictions there in his last few statements. So Trump is right, it IS time to start reopening businesses in a safe manner to get the economy back on track.

Depends on which state you’re referring to. It looks like the curve has plateaued in NY but cases and deaths are still increasing in a lot of other states. The pandemic is at different stages in every state.

amdublin

Where are you based yourself notobtuse? How is the curve looking there?

(Please, no spiel with it. No "because of what Trump did our curve is at X" etc. Just the answer. Please! )

amdublin

MadYaker wrote: »

Depends on which state you’re referring to. It looks like the curve has plateaued in NY but cases and deaths are still increasing in a lot of other states. The pandemic is at different stages in every state.

Has it plateaued??

Am I reading this wrong but looks like all these lines are still going up? Until they start coming down does it not mean the peak has not been hit?

amdublin

notobtuse wrote: »

Trump badly handled this???? Apparently delusion brought on by Trump Derangement Syndrome has no bounds.

Have we bent/flattened the curve or not? Well??? That was the only goal of all the quarantines, shelter-in-place, travel restrictions, and business closing mandates... nothing more. From the chart below it sure looks like we have, other than downstate New York, which has only the ineptitude of their DEMOCRAT governor and DEMOCRAT NYC mayor to thank for it.

Seriously dude?

The science tells us that NYC was a hot spot because of their density of population and them being a high destination point for travelers.

duploelabs

amdublin wrote: »

Seriously dude?

The science tells us that NYC was a hot spot because of their density of population and them being a high destination point for travelers.

How very dare you come here with your facts and logic to ruin a perfectly good rhetoric

Billy Mays

Trumpers don't like science

notobtuse

amdublin wrote: »

Where are you based yourself notobtuse? How is the curve looking there?

(Please, no spiel with it. No "because of what Trump did our curve is at X" etc. Just the answer. Please! )

I'll answer your question, but the answer demands some spiel.

I'm located in the southern end of the Poconos of Pennsylvania. Right now our curve is flattened in the southern area, but the northern area is considered a ‘hot zone’ for coronavirus cases. And why is the northern area a hot zone, you might ask. Well, because it's loaded with vacation homes from people of New York City and northern New Jersey who have come here to escape the metropolitan area and ride out the virus with us... and are bringing COVID-19 with them. They're shopping every other day or so and believe it or not... throwing parties. Our idiot democrat Pennsylvania governor has mandated citizens of the state can be fined if you travel on the roads without a valid and acceptable reason, but has only recommendations that people from New York and New Jersey coming here self-quarantine for 14 days. But they are ignoring the recommendations and going about their lifestyle as usual... and spreading coronavirus.

notobtuse

amdublin wrote: »

Seriously dude?

The science tells us that NYC was a hot spot because of their density of population and them being a high destination point for travelers.

Nope. Look what their mayor did and recommended in February and March regarding the coronavirus.

notobtuse

Apparently Joe Biden has a senior campaign advisor he must have gotten out of a box of Cracker Jack. Congress initiated the Paycheck Protection Program, designed to have businesses adversely affected by COVID-19 pay employees salaries and wages. It ran out of money in a little over a week after it was started. Congress is supposed to get a round two of the PPP going but Nancy Pelosi is keeping the democrats from giving it the go-ahead until they can fill it full of democrat pork and pet projects not related to the coronavirus. So Joe Biden’s senior advisor, Symone Sanders, is laying blame on Donald Trump for not appropriating additional funds to replenish the PPP. HUH? I guess she never took any US civics courses in school, because according to the US Constitution presidents don’t appropriate funds. That’s Congress’ job. Actually, presidents don’t even have the authority, or a mechanism, to spend more money than Congress allocates. But never miss a chance to blame Trump for anything, even if you have to make it up, I guess.

amdublin

Sources say that Trump treats reporters who are female in a shocking manner when he does not like the question they ask, or who they work for

amdublin

notobtuse wrote: »

Nope. Look what their mayor did and recommended in February and March regarding the coronavirus.

Do you remember what Trump said and did in those months?

We have it under control/it is just going to disappear like a miracle/etc etc etc

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/17/how-trump-shifted-his-tone-on-coronavirus-134246

History is going to be very unkind to him. When he is gone in November, I think the history books will be very bizarre reads in the future. The 4 years of Trump will emerge to be a black spot for the USA

Sean.3516

Did anyone notice a week ago (when Trump was giving that press conference where he started showing a video of the media's coverage of him) the chyrons on CNN?

Personally, I think Trump behaves stupidly in these pressers. He allows his personal foibles to obfuscate the fact that his administration actually has things pretty much in hand right now despite his initially slow reaction to this pandemic. But the media behave like children during these pressers too. Engaging Trump's idiocy with their own idiocy.

During the conference where Trump showed the video CNN had a field day writing chyrons.
“Angry Trump turns briefing into propaganda session”
"Trump uses taskforce briefing to try and rewrite history on coronavirus response"
"Trump melts down in angry response to reports he ignored coronavirus warnings"
This one's a real doozy:
"Angry Trump uses propaganda video, produced by government employees at taxpayers' expense"

Putting aside the palpable pettiness in whatever child they've got writing these things, they're EDITORIALIZING in the HEADLINES!

I seem to remember that good journalism used to demand a clear distinction between reporting and commentating. Reporting is just you telling me what happened. No opinions, just facts. Commentating/Editorialising is you telling me your opinion on what happened. It should be clear to me, the person watching, when you're doing one or the other and you should never be doing both at the same time. Bear in mind this was live coverage of a press conference. It wasn't an opinion show.

I don't really like it when Trump calls the media fake news because he does it without making the distinction between news stories that are outright fake, stories badly reported and stories he doesn't like. But when it comes to stuff like this I'm definitely on his side. CNN needs to grow up

ohnonotgmail

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Did anyone notice a week ago (when Trump was giving that press conference where he started showing a video of the media's coverage of him) the chyrons on CNN?

Personally, I think Trump behaves stupidly in these pressers. He allows his personal foibles to obfuscate the fact that his administration actually has things pretty much in hand right now despite his initially slow reaction to this pandemic. But the media behave like children during these pressers too. Engaging Trump's idiocy with their own idiocy.

During the conference where Trump showed the video CNN had a field day writing chyrons.
“Angry Trump turns briefing into propaganda session”
"Trump uses taskforce briefing to try and rewrite history on coronavirus response"
"Trump melts down in angry response to reports he ignored coronavirus warnings"
This one's a real doozy:
"Angry Trump uses propaganda video, produced by government employees at taxpayers' expense"

Putting aside the palpable pettiness in whatever child they've got writing these things, they're EDITORIALIZING in the HEADLINES!

I seem to remember that good journalism used to demand a clear distinction between reporting and commentating. Reporting is just you telling me what happened. No opinions, just facts. Commentating/Editorialising is you telling me your opinion on what happened. It should be clear to me, the person watching, when you're doing one or the other and you should never be doing both at the same time. Bear in mind this was live coverage of a press conference. It wasn't an opinion show.

I don't really like it when Trump calls the media fake news because he does it without making the distinction between news stories that are outright fake, stories badly reported and stories he doesn't like. But when it comes to stuff like this I'm definitely on his side. CNN needs to grow up

the chyrons weren't commentary, they were facts.

Carfacemandog

Those are examples of good journalism. Pretending all is fine while rheh ouse is on fire just to keep the appearance of calm, would be bad journalism. It's actually what they've largely been guilty of through his presidency, which has played a big reason in how easily he has been able to gaslight America into the pathetic state it is in now.

amdublin

Sean.3516 wrote: »

…..

I don't really like it when Trump calls the media fake news because he does it without making the distinction between news stories that are outright fake, stories badly reported and stories he doesn't like. But when it comes to stuff like this I'm definitely on his side. CNN needs to grow up

Do you watch Fox news? They did and do the exact same but putting their indoctrinating spin on it.

To be fair, I flicked between Fox and CNN on that day. I think the chyons on CNN accurately reported what was occurring at the presser.

Interesting opinion piece in the NYT today you might like/get you thinking:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/19/opinion/trump-coronavirus-briefings.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Outlaw Pete

amdublin wrote: »

Do you remember what Trump said and did in those months?

We have it under control/it is just going to disappear like a miracle/etc etc etc

Ohhh no, politician in optimism shocker!

And what were the democrats doing during Feb?? Well as I have shown multiple times now, they were doing sweet fcuk all. They started off Feb focused on trying to remove Trump from office for something he didn't do and when he was acquitted Pelosi went into sulk mode and tore up the SOTU address (in which Trump had spoken about Coronavirus) and then did a presser from Chinatown asking people to come on down. New York Mayor did the same, openly encouraged New Yorkers to go out on the town.

As for the liberal media, do I have to post up all the leftist media headlines again showing that they were all about implying Trump's travel restrictions were motivated by racism and how people should be more worried about the flu? Who did you people think you're kidding with all this nonsense exactly?

As to those the US administration (not to mention the rest of the world) were looking to for answers, the WHO, they also condemned the travel restrictions, which was why Italy moved so late in that regard (they are on record as saying as much). It's also quite clear from Dr. Fauci's comments in Feb that the CDC didn't think social distancing was needed at the time. Fauci in fact said as late as Feb 29th that his advice to Americans was to carry on as you normally would and said that there was nothing they needed to change about their behavior. So Donald Trump was, I guess, we supposed to go against Fauci and shut America down in Feb off his own back? Is that it? Please.

History is going to be very unkind to him.

And you think it will to the democrats?? Who used their powers to try and frame him for treason? Misusing impeachment? Taking the side of terrorists and all but mourning them? Weaponizing sexual assault allegations whilst they ignored those made against their candidate? To what we see today with them exploiting a pandemic which has killed tens of thousands of Americans?

When he is gone in November, I think the history books will be very bizarre reads in the future. The 4 years of Trump will emerge to be a black spot for the USA

Wishful thinking. Nothing more.


Meanwhile I see Maher's not as effective without the happy seals whooping and clapping at his every syllable:


https://twitter.com/megynkelly/status/1252055367724355584

Sean.3516

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the chyrons weren't commentary, they were facts.

Of course this was commentary. When a journalist says that someone is "angry" or "melts down" , that's an opinion. That's a subjective assessment of someone's demeanour and emotions.

When you refer to a video as "propaganda", that's an opinion. It begs the question as to the veracity of the claims made in the video and the intent of the person who produced it.

Bear in mind, I never said whether or not I thought these opinions were correct or incorrect. I think they were at least partially correct. However good journalists don't inject their opinions into a supposedly objective report of a live press conference.

Sean.3516

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Those are examples of good journalism. Pretending all is fine while rheh ouse is on fire just to keep the appearance of calm, would be bad journalism.

I'm not insisting that they pretend that all is fine when the house is on fire. I'm saying that they should keep their editorials and their objective reports separate. They can commentate all they want. CNN has shows dedicated to giving commentary. They could have run those chyrons on any one of those shows.

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's actually what they've largely been guilty of through his presidency, which has played a big reason in how easily he has been able to gaslight America into the pathetic state it is in now.

Spare me the "We just can't cover Trump the way we cover other politicians."

It's been six years since Trump declared his candidacy. We've known who he is for some time now. He's a mean, mad orange man and a major political anomaly. That isn't a reason to compromise on basic principles of journalism like keeping commentary out of an objective report.

amdublin

Sean.3516 wrote: »

…. However good journalists don't inject their opinions into a supposedly objective report of a live press conference.

Good journalism, by your standards, does not really exist in the USA.

Have you watched Fox tv during the pressers?

Did you read that article I linked above? It's very relevant to what you are saying
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/19/opinion/trump-coronavirus-briefings.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Carfacemandog

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Spare me the "We just can't cover Trump the way we cover other politicians."

The media do not cover Trump the way they do other politicians. With other politicians, scandals are covered for quite a long time while with Trump they are tyoicly up and done in a week because he goes off on a gaslight ing spree pretending the previous scandal never happened.

It's just a joke that it took them this long to actually twig it.

notobtuse

amdublin wrote: »

Good journalism, by your standards, does not really exist in the USA.

Have you watched Fox tv during the pressers?

Did you read that article I linked above? It's very relevant to what you are saying
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/19/opinion/trump-coronavirus-briefings.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

And Fox News distinguishes between their subjective shows and the objective news shows. Entities like CNN and MSNBC don’t. They lead you to believe all their shows are objective news, which is a lie. If you watch Fox News as you claim you will see something they do that the other news outlets don’t... FNC will put both republican and reputable democrat analysts on the shows to put their viewpoints forth. The only time, for the most part, the other media outlets do something like that is if they have rounded up a Never-Trumper republican to appear.

notobtuse

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Ohhh no, politician in optimism shocker!

And what were the democrats doing during Feb?? Well as I have shown multiple times now, they were doing sweet fcuk all. They started off Feb focused on trying to remove Trump from office for something he didn't do and when he was acquitted Pelosi went into sulk mode and tore up the SOTU address (in which Trump had spoken about Coronavirus) and then did a presser from Chinatown asking people to come on down. New York Mayor did the same, openly encouraged New Yorkers to go out on the town.

As for the liberal media, do I have to post up all the leftist media headlines again showing that they were all about implying Trump's travel restrictions were motivated by racism and how people should be more worried about the flu? Who did you people think you're kidding with all this nonsense exactly?

As to those the US administration (not to mention the rest of the world) were looking to for answers, the WHO, they also condemned the travel restrictions, which was why Italy moved so late in that regard (they are on record as saying as much). It's also quite clear from Dr. Fauci's comments in Feb that the CDC didn't think social distancing was needed at the time. Fauci in fact said as late as Feb 29th that his advice to Americans was to carry on as you normally would and said that there was nothing they needed to change about their behavior. So Donald Trump was, I guess, we supposed to go against Fauci and shut America down in Feb off his own back? Is that it? Please.






And you think it will to the democrats?? Who used their powers to try and frame him for treason? Misusing impeachment? Taking the side of terrorists and all but mourning them? Weaponizing sexual assault allegations whilst they ignored those made against their candidate? To what we see today with them exploiting a pandemic which has killed tens of thousands of Americans?



Wishful thinking. Nothing more.


Meanwhile I see Maher's not as effective without the happy seals whooping and clapping at his every syllable:


https://twitter.com/megynkelly/status/1252055367724355584

But, but, but you just don't understand... Orange Man Bad!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean.3516

amdublin wrote: »

Do you watch Fox news? They did and do the exact same but putting their indoctrinating spin on it.

Yeah, I think Fox should keep their opinion content separated from reporting too. I regard Fox as slightly different to CNN in that Fox will openly acknowledge that they are conservative outlet. Again, commentary doesn't bother me as long as it's openly acknowledged. Same with MSNBC, they openly say that they lean left. CNN however claims to be 100% objective in their reporting.

amdublin wrote: »

To be fair, I flicked between Fox and CNN on that day. I think the chyons on CNN accurately reported what was occurring at the presser.

Yeah, they could well have been. I didn't see yesterday's. The specific presser I was talking about with the crazy chyrons happened last week.

amdublin wrote: »

Interesting opinion piece in the NYT today you might like/get you thinking:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/19/opinion/trump-coronavirus-briefings.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Interesting article. However the author seems to conflate Trump's paid ads with coverage from the media both in terms of monetary worth and impact.

The premise is clearly that Trump would never have won without the free press. Despite the fact that the vast majority of Trump's coverage was negative. Nobody disputes that. I don't know how one can make that claim. It's non-falsifiable.

The other premise of the article is that it's the job of the media to select stories and cover them in a way that benefits the country. It isn't. "Newsworthiness" should determine story selection. Is anyone willing to say that Trump wasn't newsworthy in 2016? He was the front runner throughout the primaries, of course his campaign warranted coverage. And these briefings also warrant coverage. Trump's antics aside, they're actually somewhat informative. They're the main channel through which this administration is disseminating its coronavirus policy. If they want to not air it live and only air important clips later that's fine but I'm not sure what the point is since people are still gonna watch it live on Fox or another outlet.

The logical conclusion of what the author's saying is troubling. He's saying "We covered Trump a lot and he ended up winning in spite of the fact the coverage was mostly negative." (Which means that people liked Trump in spite of the media's negative commentary btw) "So we have to not cover Trump as much to prevent the same thing happening."

Nowhere does the author say how newsworthiness should factor into how Trump is covered.

Sean.3516

amdublin wrote: »

Good journalism, by your standards, does not really exist in the USA.

Have you watched Fox tv during the pressers?

You may be right.
If it's the case that everybody has a bias and nobody can be trusted to be objective then the best way to get to a place of "good journalism" would be if everybody just openly acknowledged their biases. Rather than insisting that people meet a standard they aren't capable of meeting.

Have everybody just declare what team they're on and as responsible citizens we should get our news from a wide variety of sources. The points of agreement between various outlets can be considered fact and everything else can be considered opinion. Honestly I'm skeptical that there ever was a time when 100% objective news existed. The first ever newspapers in history were party newspapers.

Again, if journalists are going to be objective, be objective. If not, that's fine but just say so.

TheRepentent

Billy Mays wrote: »

Trumpers don't like science

Or facts

Quin_Dub

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You may be right.
If it's the case that everybody has a bias and nobody can be trusted to be objective then the best way to get to a place of "good journalism" would be if everybody just openly acknowledged their biases. Rather than insisting that people meet a standard they aren't capable of meeting.

Have everybody just declare what team they're on and as responsible citizens we should get our news from a wide variety of sources. The points of agreement between various outlets can be considered fact and everything else can be considered opinion. Honestly I'm skeptical that there ever was a time when 100% objective news existed. The first ever newspapers in history were party newspapers.

Again, if journalists are going to be objective, be objective. If not, that's fine but just say so.

Objective Journalism hasn't existed in the US since Reagan abolished the fairness doctrine.

News outlet's chose their sides and spin the information to varying degrees.

The concept of "Here is the News" no longer exists in the US , it is "Here is our opinion of the news" . There's a reason why no other country in the world has the "Cable News" networks like the US.

The abolition of the Fairness doctrine was the beginning of the end of bi-partizanship and cooperation in the US.

It was accelerated by Newt Gingrich and others that followed , but it was the genesis of it as it removed peoples ability to receive the unvarnished truth of something and to then be able to make up their own minds.

It has also severely impacted the ability for critical thinking - Why take time to think and absorb information and formulate an opinion when you can just tune in to your talking head of choice and be given a fully formed opinion and supporting talking points in neat advertising supported 10 minute chunks?

No "side" is guilt free here , none.