2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

TheRepentent

kilns wrote: »

You sir are comedy gold.

Probably not his post but funny all the same:p

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Schiff needs to have his name kept out there as he’s hoping for higher office. Everything he wanted has blowing up in his face so far... Boxer’s senate seat, Feinstein’s senate seat, the governor’s seat. I guess if he can keep his obnoxious face on the TV screen he might land a Cabinet appointment in a Democratic White House. Will there be a cabinet post called Minister of Propaganda in Biden’s administration?

This is what happens when you swallow what Fox news have to say whole. You believe everything they tell you while mistrusting all the media sources that conflict with them.

It's a form of insanity to regurgitate nonsense like this while decrying the influence of the media.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Just came across the article about pelosi and the mail in vote stuff..comment section..

Comment 1... "And how Utah elects all of its Republican morons.
Edit: yes I know other states have mail in ballots too. Most of them aren't sending six Republicans to Congress though. If you want to tear down the "vote by mail is only good for Democrats" argument, bring up Utah."

Comment 2... "God it's so ****ing true. I've never seen blatant vote suppression like I have living in a college town in Utah. Mail in ballots are all but required, and if you're a student living without a permanent mailing address? It's okay. Just go visit one of our TWO VOTING STATIONS in the entire county and wait in line for four hours. It makes me shudder to think how many voters just see that line and say **** voting

Update: just checked my county's website for this year's election: ELECTION DAY  - By mail only - there will be NO polling location to vote at on election day.

Also voters unaffiliated with a political party will NOT be sent a mail in ballot

How is this legal?"

The top two comments on the article, you'd have to wonder is things being truthfully spoken here on this thread and the dem vote in mail "fraud"..

Also I wonder why the "conspiracy" to dump senile Joe Biden haven't jumped on the sexual assault story as a tool to put forward Cumuo? Seems a perfect cover story imo.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

This is what happens when you swallow what Fox news have to say whole. You believe everything they tell you while mistrusting all the media sources that conflict with them.

It's a form of insanity to regurgitate nonsense like this while decrying the influence of the media.

I fear you are a lost cause if you believe that, but for the benefit of others that read this crock of crap, I'll educate you. And we'll simply look at two recent worthy news stories to explain. The Tara Reade sexual assault claim against Joe Biden, and Joe's recent bizarre and unhinged conspiracy theory that Trump is somehow going to try and postpone or cancel the election in November... An accusation without factual or constitutional support. According to Joe it was the Postal Service which actually revealed the conspiracy theory to him (cue the spooky music). Earth to Joe... the US Post Office has nothing to do with voting, and wouldn’t have any insight into Trump’s election strategy. But there is little mention of these big news stories from the media. A clear case of bias by omission as the media are selective in the information they publish... Probably the worst form of media bias. We all know if it were Trump or a high level republican involved in this type of thing the media has, and would be, reporting on it, front page, 24/7 for weeks. Does the media love Joe? Of course not, they can see he's totally incapable to be president, just like the rest of us can see. But the media feels if they report on it (as they would a republican) it would only help Trump. And they just can't have that. BIAS BY OMISSION... big and bold!

MadYaker

They haven’t dumped Joe Biden because he’s the chosen candidate and Trump is a dead man walking politically.

The continued attempts to label biden as senile are beyond pathetic at this stage. If you honestly believe that stuff you’re a moron. It’s getting harder and harder to take trump supporters seriously when I read the endless posts of abject nonsense in this thread.

notobtuse

It’s getting harder and harder for the mainstream media to ignore the Tara Reade sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden with the CNN tape of her mother’s call back in 1993 and two more witnesses have now backed up Reade’s allegations. The media have so far fulfilled their water-carrying duties for Biden on this issue, but the story is now getting away form them. They won't be able to hide under a rock for much longer. Unfortunately they need to come up with a Plan B as their apparent prime directive to get Biden into the Oval Office no matter what, and then have him develop “health issues” and be replaced with the non-drooling person that democrats and the media really want sitting behind the Resolute desk, is swirling down the crapper. It will be interesting to see what the Democrats strategy will be because things have gotten so awful even Joe’s handlers aren’t letting him speak much anymore. If it gets much worse for Joe I don’t know how he continues his dream of becoming POTUS without dragging down the rest of the democrats in the November election.

Is Paddy Power taking bets on the reason and date Biden will drop out of the race? I’d like to put a 50 spot on ‘health issues” for May 22.

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

It’s getting harder and harder for the mainstream media to ignore the Tara Reade sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden with the CNN tape of her mother’s call back in 1993 and two more witnesses have now backed up Reade’s allegations. The media have so far fulfilled their water-carrying duties for Biden on this issue, but the story is now getting away form them. They won't be able to hide under a rock for much longer. Unfortunately they need to come up with a Plan B as their apparent prime directive to get Biden into the Oval Office no matter what, and then have him develop “health issues” and be replaced with the non-drooling person that democrats and the media really want sitting behind the Resolute desk, is swirling down the crapper. It will be interesting to see what the Democrats strategy will be because things have gotten so awful even Joe’s handlers aren’t letting him speak much anymore. If it gets much worse for Joe I don’t know how he continues his dream of becoming POTUS without dragging down the rest of the democrats in the November election.

Is Paddy Power taking bets on the reason and date Biden will drop out of the race? I’d like to put a 50 spot on ‘health issues” for May 22.

And are you confident that the physically and mental health of Donald Trump is ready for another four years, considering his obesity, lack of any physical exercise and obvious mental decline

2u2me

MadYaker wrote: »

The continued attempts to label biden as senile are beyond pathetic at this stage. .

Biden is doing it to himself. Even some of the most ardent anti-trumpers see it.

kilns

2u2me wrote: »

Biden is doing it to himself. Even some of the most ardent anti-trumpers see it.

The irony is people opposed to Biden calling him senile whereas they see nothing wrong with Trumps behavior. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious

Quin_Dub

2u2me wrote: »

Biden is doing it to himself. Even some of the most ardent anti-trumpers see it.

The thing is though , if you accept the things that are said about Biden in regards to alleged cognitive decline etc. etc. then you equally have to accept that those exact same issues can be laid on Trump with similar levels of accuracy.

• Are their Video that exist that show a seemingly "Sharper" version of himself from before ? - Check
• Are there video clips from now/recently containing verbal gaffes? - Check
• Are their Video clips of him talking nonsense/losing his train of thought? - Check
• And if you want to go there - Are there as yet unproven allegations of Sexual assault about him ? - Check

So , if Biden is unfit to hold office in 2020 for the reasons touted , then so is Trump.

You can't have it both ways.

Either they are both unfit or neither is - It's this cognitive dissonance that I struggle with here.

ohnonotgmail

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The thing is though , if you accept the things that are said about Biden in regards to alleged cognitive decline etc. etc. then you equally have to accept that those exact same issues can be laid on Trump with similar levels of accuracy.

• Are their Video that exist that show a seemingly "Sharper" version of himself from before ? - Check
• Are there video clips from now/recently containing verbal gaffes? - Check
• Are their Video clips of him talking nonsense/losing his train of thought? - Check
• And if you want to go there - Are there as yet unproven allegations of Sexual assault about him ? - Check

So , if Biden is unfit to hold office in 2020 for the reasons touted , then so is Trump.

You can't have it both ways.

Either they are both unfit or neither is - It's this cognitive dissonance that I struggle with here.

not forgetting the videos showing trump shaking spasmodically

Blueshoe

Anyone putting betting money on Biden?

Seems a shoe in as Trump getting slated for doing a bad job since day 1. Free money. Odds shortening all the time.

Quin_Dub

Blueshoe wrote: »

Anyone putting betting money on Biden?

Seems a shoe in as Trump getting slated for doing a bad job since day 1. Free money. Odds shortening all the time.

In a regular Election any other place on earth you are probably right.

In the US with the arcane Electoral college meaning that a tiny % of the total votes cast actually matter?

It's still at best 50:50.

Blueshoe

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In a regular Election any other place on earth you are probably right.

In the US with the arcane Electoral college meaning that a tiny % of the total votes cast actually matter?

It's still at best 50:50.

Maybe so. The quality of opposition isn't great either. Plus with Coronavirus there is no chance for Biden to hold rallies etc. Still can't see Trump getting a second term though

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In a regular Election any other place on earth you are probably right.

In the US with the arcane Electoral college meaning that a tiny % of the total votes cast actually matter?

It's still at best 50:50.

Just because we have a representative election system rather than a mob rule election system doesn’t mean it's arcane. I think it works rather well for they type of government we have.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Just because we have a representative election system rather than a mob rule election system doesn’t mean it's arcane. I think it works rather well for they type of government we have.

It's representative on a state by state level (kinda) but it is no longer representative of the populace.

It's oddly uneven - I get the need for each State to have a "say" in the Election , but the skew created by the modern distribution of population grows more stark over time.

Still Ill

Both candidates are absolutely terrible. Pretty pathetic that this is the best either side can do. Will be interesting to see what happens with the allegations against Biden after how the media went after Kavanaugh. I feel like he'll get a much easier time from them.
I can definitely see Trump having a good chance of winning this election. He's got a strong, unwavering support base and are Americans really going to be inspired to get out and vote for Biden?

Carfacemandog

Odds checker has the Democrats at evens to win the election, but 1/3 to win the popular vote. That's a pretty big disparity in a two horse race.

Democrats are at 4/11 to have the most seats in the House, republicans are at 5/6 to have the most seats in the Senate.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

I fear you are a lost cause if you believe that, but for the benefit of others that read this crock of crap, I'll educate you. And we'll simply look at two recent worthy news stories to explain. The Tara Reade sexual assault claim against Joe Biden, and Joe's recent bizarre and unhinged conspiracy theory that Trump is somehow going to try and postpone or cancel the election in November... An accusation without factual or constitutional support. According to Joe it was the Postal Service which actually revealed the conspiracy theory to him (cue the spooky music). Earth to Joe... the US Post Office has nothing to do with voting, and wouldn’t have any insight into Trump’s election strategy. But there is little mention of these big news stories from the media. A clear case of bias by omission as the media are selective in the information they publish... Probably the worst form of media bias. We all know if it were Trump or a high level republican involved in this type of thing the media has, and would be, reporting on it, front page, 24/7 for weeks. Does the media love Joe? Of course not, they can see he's totally incapable to be president, just like the rest of us can see. But the media feels if they report on it (as they would a republican) it would only help Trump. And they just can't have that. BIAS BY OMISSION... big and bold!

This is exactly what I was talking about, you've swallowed every hit piece from conservative media whole so you think this kind of thing should be news. It really shouldn't be, it's petty nonsense

The irony here is that the only US media I consume is actually Fox news, it the only US need channel I have.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Just because we have a representative election system rather than a mob rule election system doesn’t mean it's arcane. I think it works rather well for they type of government we have.

It is arcane and it actually works quite badly. Completely nullifying millions of people's votes.

But hey, it disproportionately help the GOP so I'd say you love it.

You know what another name for mob rule is? Democracy.

This whole "mod rule" argument is another conservative talk radio point you're regurgitating. But whatever you do, don't trust the media.

Brian?

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Odds checker has the Democrats at evens to win the election, but 1/3 to win the popular vote. That's a pretty big disparity in a two horse race.

Democrats are at 4/11 to have the most seats in the House, republicans are at 5/6 to have the most seats in the Senate.

Ahhh the Senate. What an absolute joke. Alaska and California both get to elect 2 Senators. What a work of genius.

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

Just because we have a representative election system rather than a mob rule election system doesn’t mean it's arcane. I think it works rather well for they type of government we have.

Mob rule election system = where the person with whom the most people voted for wins, in other words a democracy

Quin_Dub

Brian? wrote: »

Ahhh the Senate. What an absolute joke. Alaska and California both get to elect 2 Senators. What a work of genius.

Here's a mad stat..

In 2013, the New York Times pointed out that the six senators from California, Texas, and New York represented the same number of people as the 62 senators from the smallest 31 states. (Florida has since passed New York to be the third-biggest state, but the pattern persists.)

Or another one - The Senators from the 26 smallest states (52 Senators , a voting majority) represent only 18% of the Population of the US.

Madness.

notobtuse

If you want to get rid of the electoral college than why have states at all? If one person – one vote is all that matters then eliminate states altogether and just have one big mess.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

If you want to get rid of the electoral college than why have states at all? If one person – one vote is all that matters then eliminate states altogether and just have one big mess.

Because you still have state governments, who have their own span of control.

How does making elections more representative of the total population infringe on state rights?

Before you start invoking the founding fathers, they designed a system that worked for a relatively evenly spread population across a small number of states.

Brian?

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Here's a mad stat..



Or another one - The Senators from the 26 smallest states (52 Senators , a voting majority) represent only 18% of the Population of the US.

Madness.

It's absolutely mental that people think this is ok.

Carfacemandog

Brian? wrote: »

Ahhh the Senate. What an absolute joke. Alaska and California both get to elect 2 Senators. What a work of genius.

It really is in a lot of ways and shows how woefully flawed their system is, but I think the House might even be more flawed - at least insomuch as it is such an easier fix that has never been even looked at much: make house members proportionate to population size, subject to review every once in a while based off of census data, and if they insist on keeping the EC system, then match that up to EC votes (as the 538 currently on offer are comprised of 435 in the house + 100 in the Senate + 3 for DC).

This figure has been amended on a number of occasions in the past, as recently as the early 1960s, so there is absolutely no excuse for not doing so given how different the population spread and demographic makeup of the US is now compares to almost 60 years ago.

I would expect the Republicans to outright go go civil war over that, however. Failure to do so would basically end them as a competitive political entity, and they've gone so far into extremism that I don't think they could put the lid back on it in order to row back to relevance if it were to occur.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

If you want to get rid of the electoral college than why have states at all? If one person – one vote is all that matters then eliminate states altogether and just have one big mess.

The flip side to your argument is - "if you're going to keep the Electoral college , then why have the USA , why not just have 50 independent nation states?"

It's not about getting rid of it , it's about modernising it to make it more fit for purpose.

Each State still needs to have it's input into the decision , but there has to be some allowance for the will of the overall Majority.

Maybe adjust the number of total EC votes and add a "bounty" for the popular vote - 50 EC votes for winning the Popular vote.

Or even , just ratify the compact and distribute the EC votes according to votes gained rather then winner takes all.

It's probably a bit of both of those to be honest. If "every vote counted" you wouldn't have this bizarre focus on a handful of states with each side almost completely ignoring voters in the "wrong" states.

If closing the gap in California from 60:40 to 55:45 or whatever meant an extra 10 EC votes then the GOP would put in the effort there , also more GOP voters would come out to vote as their vote might matter this time.

Same for Democrat voters in heavy Red states..

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Because you still have state governments, who have their own span of control.

How does making elections more representative of the total population infringe on state rights?

Before you start invoking the founding fathers, they designed a system that worked for a relatively evenly spread population across a small number of states.

Wrong, again. In 1776 Delaware had a population of 59,094 and Rhode Island 68,825. At the time Virginia had a population 747,610, Pennsylvania at 434,373, and Massachusetts at 378,787.

The US is a coalition of sovereign states, and that’s why it's called the United States of America, and the states serve as the legal foundation. The system was set up so that one state would not override the interests of the others, and no state would be completely excluded. And since any state might make the difference in an election because of the electoral vote every candidate must consider each state’s interests.

Think about it, if you still have the states and a all a candidate would have to do is campaign in a half dozen highly populated states and promise them the world having all the rest of the states pay for it and win the election by popular vote. The Founding Fathers created a republic form of government based on representation and a federal system based on sovereign states.

Is it undemocratic? You betcha, and it intended to be that way. The founders did not create a direct democracy for a good reason as it would have prevented us from emerging as a stable union. It has worked out for us rather well, I'd say. Why change a good thing. No use having another civil war.

kilns

I have to laugh when ever I hear the USA declared as the greatest democracy in the world