2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

Carfacemandog

kilns wrote: »

And your opinion of Trump?

This will all pre tea party etc. America politically is a much much worse place today than it was then.

John McCain was the exception 2016-2019, whereas his type were much more common back then. Politicians who could work with others while today they have all sold their soul to the political devil. Lindsey Graham a case in point

Trump by now has likely cemented his place as the worst president in US history, but Reagan (maybe even more so than Nixon) helped foster in that culture of divisiveness and racism that helped the Tea Party, FOX News, Trump, and so on to become things in the first place.

The Nal

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Raegan turned out to be an absolutely terrible president, and the irony is so many of the woes both sides of the political aisle complain about can be traced back to him, from neoliberalism, to trickle down economics, to exploding deficits and debt, to cementing racism as a cornerstone of the American right (even Nixon didn't court the religious right like Reagan did, a movement founded not over abortion but over having to share the private schools they flocked to post civil we rights with *shock* black kids), to dividing the nation wherever possible, to huge wage disparities, to openly breaking international law, and that's just the start of it.

Reagan wasn't only an awful president, he was an awful piece of **** generally.

A bit harsh but certainly presided over the first big divide. The Republican party were heading that way anyway. People like Black, Manafort and Stone and specifically Lee Atwater did more damage than Reagan ever did. Reagans approach (or non approach) to AIDS is the big WTF for me.

Posted this before but worth a watch. So moderate by todays standards.

Also this is an excellent documentary fi you can find it somewhere.

https://www.pbs.org/video/american-experience-presidents-2016-reagan/

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

They better hope they're flush with cash to pay all those attorney fees for a long drawn out court battle. How long till they start begging for money to pay for legal fees or be forced to let some of their esteemed biased journalists go?

kilns wrote: »

You just don’t get it do you. They quoted Hannity word for word and Hannity tried the Trump trick of suing for everything. It’s funny when your own words are recorded on TV every night. This will disappear now otherwise Hannity will look like a fool and end up paying all the costs

That will never see the inside of a court room - Hannity hasn't a leg to stand on and he knows it , but he can now announce on his TV/Radio shows that he's "suing the Fake News Media" - which is all that actually matters.

They'll bat a few more letters back and forth over the next few weeks/months and then it will fizzle out - Like pretty much every single time Donald Trump has threatened to sue someone.. it almost never actually happens.

It's Sabre rattling for the base nothing more.

The Nal

Starting to be reported by the big boys now.

CNN - Tara Reade's ex-neighbor says Reade told her about Joe Biden sexual assault allegation in the 1990s

Carfacemandog

Does anyone have any idea why she won't name him in the official police report though, despite consistently naming him everywhere else where she can be heard?

iebamm2580

Dont think this covid crisis will affect trump as much as some think, compared to other countries such as us here in ireland included they are doing better than most per capita.

The Nal

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea why she won't name him in the official police report though, despite consistently naming him everywhere else where she can be heard?

I don't think she can prosecute. Statute of limitations has run out. She said she filed the complaint for "safety reasons".

She has said "I don't want Donald Trump to be president" but about Biden "If he’s my president, I just can’t fathom it.".

Story isn't going away.

Good article here in the Atlantic which details another issue regarding his senate records. GOP saving all this in the bank. This will be a a "release the emails" type issue. And will be very effective.

Biden Should Release His Papers

They covered his entire 36-year Senate career. At the time, the university said it expected to make the papers “available to the public two years after Biden’s last day in elected public office.” Biden left the vice presidency in January 2017, and January 2019 came and went with no papers released. Then, on April 24, 2019, the day before Biden announced his presidential campaign, the university revised the schedule. The papers would now remain sealed until December 31, 2019, or until two years after Biden “retires from public life,” whichever came later.

notobtuse

kilns wrote: »

You just don’t get it do you. They quoted Hannity word for word and Hannity tried the Trump trick of suing for everything. It’s funny when your own words are recorded on TV every night. This will disappear now otherwise Hannity will look like a fool and end up paying all the costs

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That will never see the inside of a court room - Hannity hasn't a leg to stand on and he knows it , but he can now announce on his TV/Radio shows that he's "suing the Fake News Media" - which is all that actually matters.

They'll bat a few more letters back and forth over the next few weeks/months and then it will fizzle out - Like pretty much every single time Donald Trump has threatened to sue someone.. it almost never actually happens.

It's Sabre rattling for the base nothing more.

I’m sure the media thought they could get away with their vicious and irresponsible actions against Nick Sandmann, also. I understand this kid is now getting rich on settlements from the media.

LOL. ‘Protected opinion?’ AKA license to present irresponsible and malicious opinion as news.

"You have acted with actual malice in publishing the foregoing statements. As detailed herein, it was readily apparent at the time of publication that Mr. Hannity had devoted substantial, truthful coverage to the coronavirus, and his remarks attributed by you were made eight days after Mr. Joyce had already embarked on his cruise"

"Moreover, you were fully aware that this was the actual timeline, and in order to mislead your readers and support your false narrative, you withheld the date of Mr. Hannity’s comments from your story"

…wrote Hannity’s lawyer in regard to a news article written by one of their ‘journalists’ pretty much accusing Hannity of being responsible for this Joyce guy’s death.

notobtuse

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea why she won't name him in the official police report though, despite consistently naming him everywhere else where she can be heard?

I understand she did name Biden in the police report.

notobtuse

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Raegan turned out to be an absolutely terrible president, and the irony is so many of the woes both sides of the political aisle complain about can be traced back to him, from neoliberalism, to trickle down economics, to exploding deficits and debt, to cementing racism as a cornerstone of the American right (even Nixon didn't court the religious right like Reagan did, a movement founded not over abortion but over having to share the private schools they flocked to post civil we rights with *shock* black kids), to dividing the nation wherever possible, to huge wage disparities, to openly breaking international law, and that's just the start of it.

Reagan wasn't only an awful president, he was an awful piece of **** generally.

You must be thinking about a different Reagan. I'm talking about the president responsible for ultimately bringing down the Soviet Union.

Wanderer78

iebamm2580 wrote:

Dont think this covid crisis will affect trump as much as some think, compared to other countries such as us here in ireland included they are doing better than most per capita.

Completely agree, shur 50k+ deaths is nothing, and Trump couldn't give a ****e about them anyway, he ll probably get reelected on the basis of china's gonna pay for it

iebamm2580

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Completely agree, shur 50k+ deaths is nothing, and Trump couldn't give a ****e about them anyway, he ll probably get reelected on the basis of china's gonna pay for it

As i said per capita ireland is worse with over 1100 deaths, thats the point and trump will point out all the other countries that fared worse which will be most PER CAPITA.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Dont think this covid crisis will affect trump as much as some think, compared to other countries such as us here in ireland included they are doing better than most per capita.

They don't count nursing home deaths, or at least didn't uo until a few days ago it seems. These account for 45-50% of our total, meaning a like for like comparison with the US is:

Ireland deaths per million: 106.5
USA deaths per million: 181.5

Thats using the more generous (to the US) 45% estimate. With competent leadership that wasn't actively stealing ventilators and PPE as the trump administration has been doingtheir death total could be a fraction if what it is. That, his dismissal of it which let it get this bad in the US as a'hoax' and his peddling drugs for companies that pay for access to hi nas well as injecting bleach etc really won't stand well to him outside of his immediate base (who would stand by him no matter what shouldn't even be entertained by the democrats for this cycle).

Wanderer78

iebamm2580 wrote:

As i said per capita ireland is worse with over 1100 deaths, thats the point and trump will point out all the other countries that fared worse which will be most PER CAPITA.

Trump will just make up a load of lies, his base will believe him, he ll blame everyone bar himself and his administration, and will probably get reelected from there

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

They don't count nursing home deaths, or at least didn't uo until a few days ago it seems. These account for 45-50% of our total, meaning a like for like comparison with the US is:

Ireland deaths per million: 106.5
USA deaths per million: 181.5

Thats using the more generous (to the US) 45% estimate. With competent leadership that wasn't actively stealing ventilators and PPE as the trump administration has been doingtheir death total could be a fraction if what it is. That, his dismissal of it which let it get this bad in the US as a'hoax' and his peddling drugs for companies that pay for access to hi nas well as injecting bleach etc really won't stand well to him outside of his immediate base (who would stand by him no matter what shouldn't even be entertained by the democrats for this cycle).

Compare it to England, France and Italy so, all first world countries. Belgium has been one ff few overestimating if anything. Simple when compared to other countries in europe the us has not fared as bad as some think or would like to think. Also nobody in the us has been stuck for a ventilator even though cuomo wanted tens of thousands in ny.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

LOL. ‘Protected opinion?’ AKA license to present irresponsible and malicious opinion as news.

Isn't that pretty much the dictionary description of a Hannity show though??

If he can simply make up malicious and irresponsible stuff (Seth Rich anyone?) it's a bit much him trying to sue people for alleged doing the same thing?

kilns

LOL. ‘Protected opinion?’ AKA license to present irresponsible and malicious opinion as news.


Lol once again irony has just flown right over your head

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Isn't that pretty much the dictionary description of a Hannity show though??

If he can simply make up malicious and irresponsible stuff (Seth Rich anyone?) it's a bit much him trying to sue people for alleged doing the same thing?

Hannity doesn't camouflage his opinions as news. He reminds viewers that he is not a news program over and over again... ad nauseum.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Compare it to England, France and Italy so, all first world countries. Belgium has been one ff few overestimating if anything. Simple when compared to other countries in europe the us has not fared as bad as some think or would like to think. Also nobody in the us has been stuck for a ventilator even though cuomo wanted tens of thousands in ny.

Those three have also been exemplary tales of how not to approach this, also. Italy got hit before anyone else and be ame the cautionary tale - made so much worse by their old population, while the UK have just been an unmitigated disaster. France have also had a very bad handle on things also, though one thing the US has over these three countries is vast distances from one population center to the next. Canada has similar, and their death toll is less than half of the US' per capita, and less than a quarter when you remove nursing home deaths to compare like-for-like. Scale Canada up to the US' population and criteria for official deaths, and you're looking at about 15,000 dead instead of 60,000.

The US also had huge ventilator shortage issues which were well documented, as the likes of NY were crying out for them while the trump admin decided to simply just let them die rather than give them over. The line of argument uses by them was that these ventilators were federal supplies and so not intended to be given to any states - which makes as much sense as it sounds like. Leaving people to die in this fashion, in top of the daily embarrassment of himself he has made on TV will not stand well to Trump at all come November, especially as that death toll keeps on skyrocketing.

notobtuse

Carfacemandog wrote: »

They don't count nursing home deaths, or at least didn't uo until a few days ago it seems. These account for 45-50% of our total, meaning a like for like comparison with the US is:

Ireland deaths per million: 106.5
USA deaths per million: 181.5

Thats using the more generous (to the US) 45% estimate. With competent leadership that wasn't actively stealing ventilators and PPE as the trump administration has been doingtheir death total could be a fraction if what it is. That, his dismissal of it which let it get this bad in the US as a'hoax' and his peddling drugs for companies that pay for access to hi nas well as injecting bleach etc really won't stand well to him outside of his immediate base (who would stand by him no matter what shouldn't even be entertained by the democrats for this cycle).

We do count nursing home deaths, and even count merely ‘suspected’ deaths as possibly being coronavirus related, so a portion of our numbers are overstated.

Why don't you look up NY governor Cuomo's mandate on Nursing Homes requirement to take in coronavirus patients while a hospital ship Trump sent to NY and revisions to the Javits Center done to handle the coronavirus, and how they sat mostly empty. Yet Cuomo's mandate to Nursing Homes caused thousands of deaths and will continue to cause thousands of more deaths in nursing homes. Cuomo should be in jail, not considered as a replacement for Biden in the presidential race.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Those three have also been exemplary tales of how not to approach this, also. Italy got hit before anyone else and be ame the cautionary tale - made so much worse by their old population, while the UK have just been an unmitigated disaster. France have also had a very bad handle on things also, though one thing the US has over these three countries is vast distances from one population center to the next. Canada has similar, and their death toll is less than half of the US' per capita, and less than a quarter when you remove nursing home deaths to compare like-for-like. Scale Canada up to the US' population and criteria for official deaths, and you're looking at about 15,000 dead instead of 60,000.

The US also had huge ventilator shortage issues which were well documented, as the likes of NY were crying out for them while the trump admin decided to simply just let them die rather than give them over. The line of argument uses by them was that these ventilators were federal supplies and so not intended to be given to any states - which makes as much sense as it sounds like. Leaving people to die in this fashion, in top of the daily embarrassment of himself he has made on TV will not stand well to Trump at all come November, especially as that death toll keeps on skyrocketing.

Nobody in the us died because of ventilator shortage so its a non argument, even the governors have admitted there was no shortage. My point is this cant all be blamed on trump because other countries around the world have ****ed it up too. Its clear trump hasn't a clue what he is talking about when it comes to the virus but it cant all be laid at his door. Its a pandemic not an epidemic.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

As i said per capita ireland is worse with over 1100 deaths, thats the point and trump will point out all the other countries that fared worse which will be most PER CAPITA.

You're forgetting that the statistics of the real death toll will still get out there, as they have began to do in the UK over the last week. He can shout to his base about it all he wants, but he could also tell them that 5mn died, and that they deserved to die because they were weak, and that base would lap it up and vote for him without question all the same.

It's not his base that he needs to impress, essentially.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You're forgetting that the statistics of the real death toll will still get out there, as they have began to do in the UK over the last week. He can shout to his base about it all he wants, but he could also tell them that 5mn died, and that they deserved to die because they were weak, and that base would lap it up and vote for him without question all the same.

It's not his base that he needs to impress, essentially.

Your missing the point, to blame trump for this is non-nonsensical, attack him on plenty of things sure but this cant be laid at his door. I would suspect us will fare better than most if and when real Numbers are published by all countries.

ohnonotgmail

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Your missing the point, to blame trump for this is non-nonsensical, attack him on plenty of things sure but this cant be laid at his door. I would suspect us will fare better than most if and when real Numbers are published by all countries.

his reponse was late and ineffectual. he basically stuck two fingers up at the states and told them they were on their own. even now he wants to force the states to reopen which will kill more people. the number of deaths are irrelevant to him. he doesnt care about them.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Hannity doesn't camouflage his opinions as news. He reminds viewers that he is not a news program over and over again... ad nauseum.

And that makes it OK to make up stories and lie and influence peoples political choices??

They were "Opinion" pieces in a newspaper just as Hannity is in the "Opinion" section of the Fox News Schedule - How are they different?

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Nobody in the us died because of ventilator shortage so its a non argument, even the governors have admitted there was no shortage. My point is this cant all be blamed on trump because other countries around the world have ****ed it up too. Its clear trump hasn't a clue what he is talking about when it comes to the virus but it cant all be laid at his door. Its a pandemic not an epidemic.

Thousands in the US died because of ventilator shortages and needing to split their usage between patients, which is a key reason why there has been so much furore coming out of NY for weeks now as Trump and co insisted these were not for the states to use.

No world leader has come out of this looking worse than Trump, there simply is no denying this. He has made a fool of himself and his supporters on an almost daily basis, and has left thousands to die because of his own incompetence. Some 'hoax' this has turned out to be.

iebamm2580

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

his reponse was late and ineffectual. he basically stuck two fingers up at the states and told them they were on their own. even now he wants to force the states to reopen which will kill more people. the number of deaths are irrelevant to him. he doesnt care about them.

Most of that is just false, btw everybodys response was late and ineffectual bar a few countries, its not as if it was a planned event. He wouldn't give cuomo tens of thousands of ventilators, and he was right they didn't need them. After all of this, when compared with other countries the us will fare fine and Trump poit to this undeniable fact.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Thousands in the US died because of ventilator shortages and needing to split their usage between patients, which is a key reason why there has been so much furore coming out of NY for weeks now as Trump and co insisted these were not for the states to use.

No world leader has come out of this looking worse than Trump, there simply is no denying this. He has made a fool of himself and his supporters on an almost daily basis, and has left thousands to die because of his own incompetence. Some 'hoax' this has turned out to be.

Point me to a reliable source that shows thousands have died because of ventilator shortages.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

We do count nursing home deaths, and even count merely ‘suspected’ deaths as possibly being coronavirus related, so a portion of our numbers are overstated.

Why don't you look up NY governor Cuomo's mandate on Nursing Homes requirement to take in coronavirus patients while a hospital ship Trump sent to NY and revisions to the Javits Center done to handle the coronavirus, and how they sat mostly empty. Yet Cuomo's mandate to Nursing Homes caused thousands of deaths and will continue to cause thousands of more deaths in nursing homes. Cuomo should be in jail, not considered as a replacement for Biden in the presidential race.

Just on the Hospital ship - It was explicitly barred from accepting Covid19 patients - It was there to take patients with other conditions to ease pressure on the NY Hospitals.

ohnonotgmail

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Most of that is just false, btw everybodys response was late and ineffectual bar a few countries, its not as if it was a planned event. He wouldn't give cuomo tens of thousands of ventilators, and he was right they didn't need them. After all of this, when compared with other countries the us will fare fine and Trump poit to this undeniable fact.

he knew it was coming for months and did nothing. described it as a hoax. kept holding rallies. promotes "cures" that havent been proven.