2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

We do count nursing home deaths, and even count merely ‘suspected’ deaths as possibly being coronavirus related, so a portion of our numbers are overstated.

Why don't you look up NY governor Cuomo's mandate on Nursing Homes requirement to take in coronavirus patients while a hospital ship Trump sent to NY and revisions to the Javits Center done to handle the coronavirus, and how they sat mostly empty. Yet Cuomo's mandate to Nursing Homes caused thousands of deaths and will continue to cause thousands of more deaths in nursing homes. Cuomo should be in jail, not considered as a replacement for Biden in the presidential race.

Thank you for the Hannity type spin on it. Now would you like to give the real facts

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Your missing the point, to blame trump for this is non-nonsensical, attack him on plenty of things sure but this cant be laid at his door. I would suspect us will fare better than most if and when real Numbers are published by all countries.

Blaming Trump for the extent of damage it has done in the US, and will continue to do, is the only logical action. People would have died either way, but only a fraction had he taken appropriate action early and given the states thecassistance they needed.

Instead he has been pushing to end the lockdowns he failed to enforce federally (meaning he can't as the states did it themselves in the end) and has been calling for armed uprisings, injecting bleach, and taking malaria medication that has proven to have basically no benefits and be incredibly dangerous to take.

It might not sit well with you, but he has done his reelection on chances huge amounts of harm over the last 3-4 months, if they actually wind up having an election at all. No world leader has come over even close to as poorly as him throughout this, but that shouldn't come as much surprise.

iebamm2580

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he knew it was coming for months and did nothing. described it as a hoax. kept holding rallies. promotes "cures" that havent been proven.

what did all other world leaders do that was so effective?

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Blaming Trump for the extent of damage it has done in the US, and will continue to do, is the only logical action. People would have died either way, but only a fraction had he taken appropriate action early and given the states thecassistance they needed.

Instead he has been pushing to end the lockdowns he failed to enforce federally (meaning he can't as the states did it themselves in the end) and has been calling for armed uprisings, injecting bleach, and taking malaria medication that has proven to have basically no benefits and be incredibly dangerous to take.

It might not sit well with you, but he has done his reelection on chances huge amounts of harm over the last 3-4 months, if they actually wind up having an election at all. No world leader has come over even close to as poorly as him throughout this, but that shouldn't come as much surprise.

Where are the sources that thousands died from ventilator shortages?

ohnonotgmail

iebamm2580 wrote: »

what did all other world leaders do that was so effective?

we are talking about trump. stick to the point.

iebamm2580

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we are talking about trump. stick to the point.

Dont quote me again if you cant answer a question in reply to you quoting me.

ohnonotgmail

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Dont quote me again if you cant answer a question in reply to you quoting me.

the question was irrelevant and just an attempt at diversion away from trumps many failings.

iebamm2580

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the question was irrelevant and just an attempt at diversion away from trumps many failings.

Its irrelevant because you cant answer it, like carfacemandog when he said thousands died because of ventilator shortages -totally false, so easy to debate with people like ye. Lie and lie again thats all ye do. I dont like trump but people like you make many others tolerate him. Guess what he will win again this year, i guarantee it.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And that makes it OK to make up stories and lie and influence peoples political choices??

They were "Opinion" pieces in a newspaper just as Hannity is in the "Opinion" section of the Fox News Schedule - How are they different?

Because the NY Times has abandoned any distinction between reporting and opinion when it comes to Trump and Trump supporters.

I looked up that article in question in the NY Times. Please show me where it is clearly indicated to be an ‘Opinion’ piece.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/coronavirus-jjbubbles-joe-joyce.html?searchResultPosition=1

Quin_Dub

iebamm2580 wrote: »

what did all other world leaders do that was so effective?

The single biggest thing the better ones did was "Don't delay"

It's now clear that Trump was being told that this was a major risk from late December at least.

He then instituted his limited China travel ban in late January and then did absolutely nothing for almost 2 months after that.

He pissed away 6 to 8 weeks of time that could have been used to ramp up Testing capacity ,equipment etc. etc.

He continues to show no leadership - I mean look at the latest testing plan , which can be summarised as "The States are on their own , don't expect help from us".

Even allowing for the Federal vs. State authority issues, actual leadership would be - "Here's a set of templates, Best practices and guidelines that the States can use and modify for their own Circumstances" - He maybe can't centrally enforce them but he could at least help!

He wants to take credit for anything good that happens and refuses to accept responsibility when something bad happens.

That is the very antithesis of Effective Leadership.

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

what did all other world leaders do that was so effective?

Showed leadership, made tough and sometimes unpopular decisions to control this spread, made repeated efforts at reassuring the public, developed actual planning, and communicated clearly on the matters for a start.

I can't stand Varadkar myself, but as just one example it has been night and say between him and Trump during this crisis. Imagine him tweeting at Gemma odoherty and co, encouraging them to take up arms if necessary to stop the lockdown and 'liberate Dublin!' while coming in air and saying we should try injecting Dettol in ourselves and taking malaria pills for this apparent "hoax" that will 'disappear like a miracle'. That's how Trump has responded.

Boris was looking like he might try to compete with Trump for the idiocy awards early on, but seems to have copped on at least a little since he caught it himself. I guess you could argue that Boksonaro over in Brazil has responded as poorly as or worse than Trump, and a few tin-pot dictators like in Belarus... it says all it needs to that those lads are more or less the only ones he can point to as being in the same realm of useless as him when if has come to the covid crisis.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Because the NY Times has abandoned any distinction between reporting and opinion when it comes to Trump and Trump supporters.

I looked up that article in question in the NY Times. Please show me where it is clearly indicated to be an ‘Opinion’ piece.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/coronavirus-jjbubbles-joe-joyce.html?searchResultPosition=1

It's clearly labelled as being an article from the "Big City" Column - Columnists are by definition "Opinion" writers..

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Showed leadership, made tough and sometimes unpopular decisions to control this spread, made repeated efforts at reassuring the public, developed actual planning, and communicated clearly on the matters for a start.

I can't stand Varadkar myself, but as just one example it has been night and say between him and Trump during this crisis. Imagine him tweeting at Gemma odoherty and co, encouraging them to take up arms if necessary to stop the lockdown and 'liberate Dublin!' while coming in air and saying we should try injecting Dettol in ourselves and taking malaria pills for this apparent "hoax" that will 'disappear like a miracle'. That's how Trump has responded.

Boris was looking like he might try to compete with Trump for the idiocy awards early on, but seems to have copped on at least a little since he caught it himself. I guess you could argue that Boksonaro over in Brazil has responded as poorly as or worse than Trump, and a few tin-pot dictators like in Belarus... it says all it needs to that those lads are more or less the only ones he can point to as being in the same realm of useless as him when if has come to the covid crisis.

Again where is your source for thousands dieing due to ventilator shortages? You cant just say something like that and not back it up.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It's clearly labelled as being an article from the "Big City" Column - Columnists are by definition "Opinion" writers..

That's a cop-out. I wouldn't have ever know that by reading the piece and have taken it as news... and I suspect most, not completely familiar with the NY Times, would have taken as news also.

What would have been so hard to have noted 'OPINION?' I'll answer that for you... Because the NY Times has abandoned any distinction between reporting and opinion when it comes to Trump and Trump supporters!

Carfacemandog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Again where is your source for thousands dieing due to ventilator shortages? You cant just say something like that and not back it up.

It's right beside your one that backed up your initial claim of "nobody in the us has been stuck for a ventilator" which I was responding to.

iebamm2580

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's right beside your one that backed up your initial claim of "nobody in the us has been stuck for a ventilator" which I was responding to.

Admit it you lied.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/28/coronavirus-hospitals-avoid-ventilator-shortage-curve-new-york-flattens/3036008001/

Have a read there like a good lad. No evidence of anybody dieing from ventilator shortages. New york even sent some away to other sates, cuomo was totally wrong in the amount he looked for. What im saying is fact unlike what you claim.

iebamm2580

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/never-mind-the-media-critics-team-trump-got-it-right-on-ventilators/

Here another one. Admit you lied. I have admitted before i was wrong, its not the end of the world you know.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/can-anyone-who-needs-ventilator-get-one-so-far-it-/

"To the best of our knowledge, a ventilator has been available for every patient that needed one," said Colin Milligan, director of media relations at the American Hospital Association.

I should trust you though not the director in the above article.

ohnonotgmail

iebamm2580 wrote: »

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/never-mind-the-media-critics-team-trump-got-it-right-on-ventilators/

Here another one. Admit you lied. I have admitted before i was wrong, its not the end of the world you know.

they were just being sarcastic

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

That's a cop-out. I wouldn't have ever know that by reading the piece and have taken it as news... and I suspect most, not completely familiar with the NY Times, would have taken as news also.

What would have been so hard to have noted 'OPINION?' I'll answer that for you... Because the NY Times has abandoned any distinction between reporting and opinion when it comes to Trump and Trump supporters!

The claim that someone googling the article might not know it's an opinion piece because it's not directly labelled is disingenuous at best.

Can you confirm that every single person watching Hannity understands that his shows are "Entertainment and not to be taken as factual News/Information"?

Does the Hannity show display a Chyron after every ad break saying " This is an opinion show , the content of this show is not News"?

The argument is about the legitimacy of Hannity looking to sue someone for doing exactly what he does.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The claim that someone googling the article might not know it's an opinion piece because it's not directly labelled is disingenuous at best.

Can you confirm that every single person watching Hannity understands that his shows are "Entertainment and not to be taken as factual News/Information"?

Does the Hannity show display a Chyron after every ad break saying " This is an opinion show , the content of this show is not News"?

The argument is about the legitimacy of Hannity looking to sue someone for doing exactly what he does.

No it's not and readers/viewers/listeners would be better served by a newspaper/political program/talk show that is open about its prejudices (such as Hannity) and does not pretend that it aspires to anything like objectivity (the way the NY Times prevaricates that they are). That I believe will be the crux of any lawsuit that might come about.

And if there is a lawsuit I hope it gets all the way to the supreme court as I think enough judges are finally sick of these scummy media entities spewing their hatred and hiding behind a earlier wrongful decision which basically gave them license to commit journalistic slander and libel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-cosby/justice-thomas-assails-landmark-us-libel-ruling-that-protects-media-idUSKCN1Q81T0

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

No it's not and readers/viewers/listeners would be better served by a newspaper/political program/talk show that is open about its prejudices (such as Hannity) and does not pretend that it aspires to anything like objectivity (the way the NY Times prevaricates that they are). That I believe will be the crux of any lawsuit that might come about.

And if there is a lawsuit I hope it gets all the way to the supreme court as I think enough judges are finally sick of these scummy media entities spewing their hatred and hiding behind a earlier wrongful decision which basically gave them license to commit journalistic slander and libel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-cosby/justice-thomas-assails-landmark-us-libel-ruling-that-protects-media-idUSKCN1Q81T0

You avoided answering his question but that’s nothing new

It won’t even get to judge judys court room.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

No it's not and readers/viewers/listeners would be better served by a newspaper/political program/talk show that is open about its prejudices (such as Hannity) and does not pretend that it aspires to anything like objectivity (the way the NY Times prevaricates that they are). That I believe will be the crux of any lawsuit that might come about.

And if there is a lawsuit I hope it gets all the way to the supreme court as I think enough judges are finally sick of these scummy media entities spewing their hatred and hiding behind a earlier wrongful decision which basically gave them license to commit journalistic slander and libel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-cosby/justice-thomas-assails-landmark-us-libel-ruling-that-protects-media-idUSKCN1Q81T0

If that is true , then Sean Hannity should be very very careful what he wishes for..

The law of unintended consequence and all that.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If that is true , then Sean Hannity should be very very careful what he wishes for..

The law of unintended consequence and all that.

I'll agree with you somewhat there. But Hannity is not a news entity and therefore currently can't hide behind the same thing that the NY Times does.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

No it's not and readers/viewers/listeners would be better served by a newspaper/political program/talk show that is open about its prejudices (such as Hannity) and does not pretend that it aspires to anything like objectivity (the way the NY Times prevaricates that they are). That I believe will be the crux of any lawsuit that might come about.

And if there is a lawsuit I hope it gets all the way to the supreme court as I think enough judges are finally sick of these scummy media entities spewing their hatred and hiding behind a earlier wrongful decision which basically gave them license to commit journalistic slander and libel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-cosby/justice-thomas-assails-landmark-us-libel-ruling-that-protects-media-idUSKCN1Q81T0

So now you want to undermine the first amendment?

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

They don't count nursing home deaths, or at least didn't uo until a few days ago it seems. These account for 45-50% of our total, meaning a like for like comparison with the US is:

Ireland deaths per million: 106.5
USA deaths per million: 181.5

Thats using the more generous (to the US) 45% estimate. With competent leadership that wasn't actively stealing ventilators and PPE as the trump administration has been doingtheir death total could be a fraction if what it is. That, his dismissal of it which let it get this bad in the US as a'hoax' and his peddling drugs for companies that pay for access to hi nas well as injecting bleach etc really won't stand well to him outside of his immediate base (who would stand by him no matter what shouldn't even be entertained by the democrats for this cycle).

Source please for America having 60% of deaths in nursing homes?

It's 20% so nowhere near a like for like comparison.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/us-coronavirus-deaths-at-nursing-homes-2020-4%3famp

If you increase their number by 20% we'd still be worse per capita but that doesnt fit the narrative.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

So now you want to undermine the first amendment?

Jaysus, for someone who doesn’t want refreshers on our Constitution, you sure do need it at times.

The First Amendment was established to help promote the free exchange of ideas and to provide a form of redress to citizens against their government. Additionally, the First Amendment seeks to protect unpopular forms of speech. However, certain forms of speech are not protected, or are curtailed, or have diminished protections, by the First Amendment: Content Regulations, Fighting Words, Obscenity, Child Pornography, Libel and Slander, Crimes Involving Speech, Threats, Violation of Copyright Rules, Conduct Regulations, Commercial Speech.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Jaysus, for someone who doesn’t want refreshers on our Constitution, you sure do need it at times.

The First Amendment was established to help promote the free exchange of ideas and to provide a form of redress to citizens against their government. Additionally, the First Amendment seeks to protect unpopular forms of speech. However, certain forms of speech are not protected, or are curtailed, or have diminished protections, by the First Amendment: Content Regulations, Fighting Words, Obscenity, Child Pornography, Libel and Slander, Crimes Involving Speech, Threats, Violation of Copyright Rules, Conduct Regulations, Commercial Speech.

You're constant attacks on the media display flagrant disregard for the first amendment. You seem to believe it's ok for Hannity to sue a newspaper for reporting what he said, that's not libel or slander.

notobtuse

Joe Biden recently said those officers who arrest and try to deport illegals for the crime of driving while drunk are the ones who ought to be punished. “You’re going to get fired,” he said, “You’re fired if in fact you do that. You only arrest for the purpose of dealing with a felony that’s committed, and I don’t count drunk driving as a felony.”

Huh?

American citizens who drive under the smallest alcohol percentage over the legal limit are subject to massive fines, lost driving license, court appearances, job firings, mandated and expensive driving under the influence courses, and possible substantial jail time… and that’s if nobody is even injured or killed. That’s simply for driving under the influence.

Someone needs to put this doddering old fool out to pasture where he can live out the rest of his life in solitude so he doesn’t hurt anyone.

Blueshoe

notobtuse wrote: »

Joe Biden recently said those officers who arrest and try to deport illegals for the crime of driving while drunk are the ones who ought to be punished. “You’re going to get fired,” he said, “You’re fired if in fact you do that. You only arrest for the purpose of dealing with a felony that’s committed, and I don’t count drunk driving as a felony.”

Huh?

American citizens who drive under the smallest alcohol percentage over the legal limit are subject to massive fines, lost driving license, court appearances, job firings, mandated and expensive driving under the influence courses, and possible substantial jail time… and that’s if nobody is even injured or killed. That’s simply for driving under the influence.

Someone needs to put this doddering old fool out to pasture where he can live out the rest of his life in solitude so he doesn’t hurt anyone.

He should be in a rocking chair watching old episodes of murder she wrote. Too old, too confused, too bland, too sleepy.
Not a good choice

kilns

notobtuse wrote: »

Joe Biden recently said those officers who arrest and try to deport illegals for the crime of driving while drunk are the ones who ought to be punished. “You’re going to get fired,” he said, “You’re fired if in fact you do that. You only arrest for the purpose of dealing with a felony that’s committed, and I don’t count drunk driving as a felony.”

Huh?

American citizens who drive under the smallest alcohol percentage over the legal limit are subject to massive fines, lost driving license, court appearances, job firings, mandated and expensive driving under the influence courses, and possible substantial jail time… and that’s if nobody is even injured or killed. That’s simply for driving under the influence.

Someone needs to put this doddering old fool out to pasture where he can live out the rest of his life in solitude so he doesn’t hurt anyone.

Just for context

They [the children of ‘undocumented’ immigrants] go off to school wondering whether their mom comes and picks them up, is she not going to be there because an ICE agent was there to arrest her? Or she takes them to the doctor, that she’s going to not be there because she is ‘undocumented’ and an ICE agent is going to pick him up.

[…] You change the culture by saying you are going to get fired. You are fired if, in fact, you do that. You only arrest for the purpose of dealing with a felony that’s committed, and I don’t count drunk driving as a felony.

And further

driving under the influence (DUI) can constitute a felony, depending on the state where the offense occurred and the severity of the incident.

The Trump administration has come under fire for its immigration rhetoric and policy. In 2018, roughly half of the 158,000 people “administratively arrested” by ICE had DUI charges or convictions.

Are you sure you don’t work for OANN or FOX News with your miss leading headlines