2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

Carfacemandog

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It sure is false, but it’s comparing apples and oranges.

Comparisons with Canada, Australia, China are relevant because they are multi cities high density and rural low density Modern countries with good infrastructure and large geographic regions, but you could cycle the length of Luxembourg and Iceland in a day.

Tests, cases and deaths per million

Canada - 30,099 tests per million ... 1,854 cases... 132 deaths
Australia - 34,429 ... 273... 4
Russia - 39,781 ... 1,591... 14
USA - 29,063 ... 4,189... 247

I included cases and deaths as more of those would likely mean a higher/more urgent need for additional testing.

I can't find anything on China's testing numbers and it looks like they've basically stopped updating any info at all weeks back, but compared to the other three this it still a poor reflection on the US, who rank worst of the lot on every metric, including testing rates despite the other two showing there to bd more of a need for them than any of the other three.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

ohnonotgmail

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Tests, cases and deaths per million

Canada - 30,099 tests per million ... 1,854 cases... 132 deaths
Australia - 34,429 ... 273... 4
Russia - 39,781 ... 1,591... 14
USA - 29,063 ... 4,189... 247

I included cases and deaths as more of those would likely mean a higher/more urgent need for additional testing.

I can't find anything on China's testing numbers and it looks like they've basically stopped updating any info at all weeks back, but compared to the other three this it still a poor reflection on the US, who rank worst of the lot on every metric, including testing rates despite the other two showing there to bd more of a need for them than any of the other three.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

they dont seem interested in discussing facts.

lawrencesummers

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Tests, cases and deaths per million

Canada - 30,099 tests per million ... 1,854 cases... 132 deaths
Australia - 34,429 ... 273... 4
Russia - 39,781 ... 1,591... 14
USA - 29,063 ... 4,189... 247

I included cases and deaths as more of those would likely mean a higher/more urgent need for additional testing.

I can't find anything on China's testing numbers and it looks like they've basically stopped updating any info at all weeks back, but compared to the other three this it still a poor reflection on the US, who rank worst of the lot on every metric, including testing rates despite the other two showing there to bd more of a need for them than any of the other three.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I’ve no debate about that, I’m not sure how your think I have a problem with those figures???

I just pointed out in the original graphic that comparing the US to countries like Iceland, lux, San Marino the Vatican etc etc Etc is no use when your talking about any corona virus stats, not because their figures are better (you can compare countries that are worse testing wise also) but because they are completely different countries Geographically, residentially, logistically, culturally etc etc.

Ranking any countries figures on world table of countries is pointless because no two counties are the same, and only a few are broadly similar.

Carfacemandog

Never said you had a problem with it and sorry if you felt I had - just providing the numbers with the subset you suggested.

lawrencesummers

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Never said you had a problem with it and sorry if you felt I had - just providing the numbers with the subset you suggested.

Their tests /mil isn’t exactly terrible either, and they have carried out the most amount of tests according to some stats - to put it better it’s not the worst metric that they have when you look at deaths/mil.

Carfacemandog

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Their tests /mil isn’t exactly terrible either, and they have carried out the most amount of tests according to some stats - to put it better it’s not the worst metric that they have when you look at deaths/mil.

They haven't carried out the most tests according to any stats though, unless you mean sheer bulk stats which completely ignore population levels is essentially a useless metric for comparative purposes. It would for example be equally useless to compare the bulk death rate of Canada, Ireland or the Faroes to the US as their populations are so much lower.

Unless you were referring to other stats I am unaware of?

They are however behind the countries that you wanted to compare them with in the metrics of tests, cases and deaths per million which are for comparative purposes the best measures to go by.

lawrencesummers

Carfacemandog wrote: »

They haven't carried out the most tests according to any stats though, unless you mean sheer bulk stats which completely ignore population levels is essentially a useless metric for comparative purposes. It would for example be equally useless to compare the bulk death rate of Canada, Ireland or the Faroes to the US as their populations are so much lower.

Unless you were referring to other stats I am unaware of?

They are however behind the countries that you wanted to compare them with in the metrics of tests, cases and deaths per million which are for comparative purposes the best measures to go by.

I mean what i said. They have carried out the most tests.

duploelabs

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I mean what i said. They have carried out the most tests.

Citation for this claim?

Quin_Dub

duploelabs wrote: »

Citation for this claim?

To be fair , that is a clear fact - they have carried out the most in terms of absolute tests .

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-total-tests-for-covid-19

Up to about 9.4M tests now , next nearest in absolute terms is Italy with ~2.5M in total..

It's the rate of testing vs. Population that is being discussed here though.

notobtuse

Because 98% of the business I work for is dealing with nursing homes the president of the company just went to get tested for COVID-19 to prove to nursing homes he has tested negative. The hospital refused to give him a test because he told them, when asked, he feels healthy. They will only test people who are sick.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Because 98% of the business I work for is dealing with nursing homes the president of the company just went to get tested for COVID-19 to prove to nursing homes he has tested negative. The hospital refused to give him a test because he told them, when asked, he feels healthy. They will only test people who are sick.

Exactly the problem - When we know that people can absolutely be carriers when asymptomatic.

People in Industries like yours (and everyone to be honest) should be able to get a test if they feel they need it. Whether that's to prove to customers/clients that you are Virus free or because you are concerned about bringing it home to an at risk family member etc.

Without that ability , opening everything back up is a huge risk.

Your Company boss could be an asymptomatic carrier and be spreading the virus completely unbeknownst to them between multiple different Care homes etc.

Just as the person that serves you in WalMart/McDonalds or wherever could be doing just the same.

Either you have a properly robust testing and contact tracing regime or everyone needs to be in fairly hardcore PPE every time they go out. The US currently have neither (except for inside the White House)

This whole "Warriors going into battle for your country" line of tripe trotted out by Trump and his surrogates on Fox et al is beyond dangerous.

lawrencesummers

Carfacemandog wrote: »

They haven't carried out the most tests according to any stats though, unless you mean sheer bulk stats which completely ignore population levels is essentially a useless metric for comparative purposes. It would for example be equally useless to compare the bulk death rate of Canada, Ireland or the Faroes to the US as their populations are so much lower.

Unless you were referring to other stats I am unaware of?

They are however behind the countries that you wanted to compare them with in the metrics of tests, cases and deaths per million which are for comparative purposes the best measures to go by.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be fair , that is a clear fact - they have carried out the most in terms of absolute tests .

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-total-tests-for-covid-19

Up to about 9.4M tests now , next nearest in absolute terms is Italy with ~2.5M in total..

It's the rate of testing vs. Population that is being discussed here though.

The point is testing, you can put it as a ratio of 100k or 1mil people if you want but what I’m saying is that testing isn’t their worst metric, they are not the best by any means but there are other metrics that better indicate the reality of their handling of this virus other than testing. This is because firstly they are close to other relatively similar countries in ratios of tests to head of population and Secondly they have Completed the most amount of tests.

That said, I would sooner believe chinas figures than the ones from the US, personally I dont believe any of them to be accurate, but that’s just an opinion.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Exactly the problem - When we know that people can absolutely be carriers when asymptomatic.

People in Industries like yours (and everyone to be honest) should be able to get a test if they feel they need it. Whether that's to prove to customers/clients that you are Virus free or because you are concerned about bringing it home to an at risk family member etc.

Without that ability , opening everything back up is a huge risk.

Your Company boss could be an asymptomatic carrier and be spreading the virus completely unbeknownst to them between multiple different Care homes etc.

Just as the person that serves you in WalMart/McDonalds or wherever could be doing just the same.

Either you have a properly robust testing and contact tracing regime or everyone needs to be in fairly hardcore PPE every time they go out. The US currently have neither (except for inside the White House)

This whole "Warriors going into battle for your country" line of tripe trotted out by Trump and his surrogates on Fox et al is beyond dangerous.

Apparently we have plenty of tests. The problem is with each health care facility making up their own individual rules on who can be tested.

Quin_Dub

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The point is testing, you can put it as a ratio of 100k or 1mil people if you want but what I’m saying is that testing isn’t their worst metric, they are not the best by any means but there are other metrics that better indicate the reality of their handling of this virus other than testing. This is because firstly they are close to other relatively similar countries in ratios of tests to head of population and Secondly they have Completed the most amount of tests.

That said, I would sooner believe chinas figures than the ones from the US, personally I dont believe any of them to be accurate, but that’s just an opinion.

Oh I absolutely agree , the discussion was more around refuting the Trump claim about being the world leader in testing , which they are not and like you say there are several other measures where they are worse.

In terms of testing whilst they are currently below the OECD average , they aren't a million miles away from it and might well get above that level in a while.

Whether it's Covid19 Testing or the Economy , almost every metric where Trump claims the US (or him) to be the best ever they are actually fairly bang average, middle of the pack when you look at the numbers in any meaningfully analytic manner.

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Apparently we have plenty of tests. The problem is with each health care facility making up their own individual rules on who can be tested.

A failure of guidance from the CDC/HHS/Trump administration, pretty much as usual for this shower of clowns.

Federal testing centers - drive throughs, walmart parking lots, are being shut down too.

And, as you recall, when Pence was asked about testing and where were the millions of tests, Pence's reply was a beauty - testing was going on, but not enough resources were available to *analyze* the tests. So, they stuck a swab up some noses, and then nothing happened.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Apparently we have plenty of tests. The problem is with each health care facility making up their own individual rules on who can be tested.

That could very well be true in your specific case/area , but again , where is the leadership and clear guidance coming from the Federal government to set those rules (or even to provide a set of rules as a template)so that there is consistency? - If one State/County/Town is doing things well but their neighbor isn't then that good work is being undone.

The Federal response thus far has been a complete leadership vacuum -

When something goes well Trump claims it's all him , like his tweets today that any gains Governors might have gotten in the polls recently is all because of him, but when things go wrong it's all someone elses fault and he denies all responsibility.

lawrencesummers

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Oh I absolutely agree , the discussion was more around refuting the Trump claim about being the world leader in testing , which they are not and like you say there are several other measures where they are worse.

In terms of testing whilst they are currently below the OECD average , they aren't a million miles away from it and might well get above that level in a while.

Whether it's Covid19 Testing or the Economy , almost every metric where Trump claims the US (or him) to be the best ever they are actually fairly bang average, middle of the pack when you look at the numbers in any meaningfully analytic manner.

Politicians eh.

Fiery mutant

In any other country with the same testing results, I don’t think there be as much of an issue with them. It’s only arises here because of Trumps absolutely nauseating pontificating every god damn night.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

One third of the deaths from the coronavirus in the US happen in nursing homes, yet people in nursing homes represent only about 1% of the US population. Data shows such nursing home deaths now account for more than half of all fatalities in 14 states. A high majority of nursing home COVID-19 deaths occur in the northeast. 20% of deaths in NY from the coronavirus were in nursing homes, 51% in PA, 40% NJ, 24% in CT and 55% in MA. What do these states have in common one might ask? Most have democratic governors who have forced nursing homes to take in coronavirus patients. The governors of NY, NJ and PA should be indicted on charges of criminal negligent homicide for causing many of these nursing home deaths. They know nursing homes have been the least equipped facilities capable of handling COVID-19. Two very unscrupulous and shadowy groups have been on a rampage in the last several years buying up as many nursing homes in the northeast as they can. Their modus operandi, after buying them, in an attempt to make them solvent and profitable, is to fire the majority of staff, set up a family member to run the nursing homes, staff the nursing homes with the minimal about of staff per nursing home population as state mandates provide (not taking into consideration call-offs) and staffing them with unqualified minimum wage workers and non-industry cheap international labor that can’t speak English. The federal and state governments mostly ignore what has been going on in the nursing home industry because it is a pain in their side. And many nursing homes would rather pay any fine they do get rather than correcting deficiencies because it is cheaper. Also, nursing homes for the first month, or more, of the outbreak/pandemic wouldn’t even provide staff with the necessary protective equipment to do their jobs.

Bottom line, Trump is correct, it’s time to get America back to business, because so much COVID-19 deaths are isolated to nursing homes. My idiot PA governor (where 51% of our coronavirus related deaths are in nursing homes) has now extended his business closures and stay-at-home and isolate mandate to June 4. We can’t recall our governor here but the legislature could remove him. Our legislature needs to do their job and get rid of our self-appointed king, who has nothing to fear because, by law, he isn’t allowed to run again for governor (limit 2 terms).

Maybe someone who works in the US nursing home industry might be able to comment on what I noted. Oh, wait... that’s me.

Your governor was elected by the people of PA to do a job. Like it or loathe it, he's performing his duties, with a mandate from the people. Why do you always need to use hyperbolic nonsense about people you disagree with? He's not "self appointed king", he's an elected official.

You attack dems for trying to remove Trump and at the same call for your legislature to remove your governor. I shouldn't be surprised by the hypocrisy.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

Because 98% of the business I work for is dealing with nursing homes the president of the company just went to get tested for COVID-19 to prove to nursing homes he has tested negative. The hospital refused to give him a test because he told them, when asked, he feels healthy. They will only test people who are sick.

Given your age and health history, I hope you stay safe and clear of Covid-19 carriers. Do you honestly think you should be returning to work?

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Your governor was elected by the people of PA to do a job. Like it or loathe it, he's performing his duties, with a mandate from the people. Why do you always need to use hyperbolic nonsense about people you disagree with? He's not "self appointed king", he's an elected official.

You attack dems for trying to remove Trump and at the same call for your legislature to remove your governor. I shouldn't be surprised by the hypocrisy.

We (as in the general overall population... definitely not me) elected him to be our governor, not king, which he now seems to consider himself. We kicked out a king before, which started in my state a little south of me. We can do it again.

Brian?

notobtuse wrote: »

We elected him to be our governor, not king, which he now seems to consider himself.

I almost respect the way you're doubling down.

In what way is he behaving like a king?

I assume you mean he's overusing his emergency powers as governor.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

We elected him to be our governor, not king, which he now seems to consider himself.

On what basis do you think that?

Has he broken the law ?

Is Trump acting like a "king" when he signs executive orders that go against decisions made in the House or Senate , like the recent War Powers issues?

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Given your age and health history, I hope you stay safe and clear of Covid-19 carriers. Do you honestly think you should be returning to work?

Thanks. I am working. I have a full time job that supports nursing homes and considered life-sustaining, and I have a part time job in a business considered life sustaining. I guess I'm one of them thar warriors you've been hearing about. I wear a mask when in all businesses. And use hand sanitizer. That seems to do the trick.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

On what basis do you think that?

Has he broken the law ?

Is Trump acting like a "king" when he signs executive orders that go against decisions made in the House or Senate , like the recent War Powers issues?

Wolf's overreaching executive orders have already numerous lawsuits. Unfortunately by the time the lawsuits make their way through the courts, and it is determined much of what he did was illegal, the pandemic will be behind us and he’ll probably be out of office. Luckily for us the majority of law enforcement here, other than the liberal and leftist bastions Philadelphia & Pittsburgh have become, are ignoring for the most part Governor Wolf’s orders and almost nobody (outside of Philly and Pitt) are being cited or fined by the cops.

Several counties here are defying his orders and are opening up for business today. And today the governor came out and said counties who allow nonessential businesses to reopen would lose access to federal stimulus funding. Don’t you find it ironic? I thought threatening to withhold federal funding for failure to follow executive orders was a bad thing. Isn’t it even “racist” to do so, especially when it comes to federal grants for sanctuary cities? Hmmmm!!! Democrats... they're a pox upon our country!

Richard Hillman

RTÉ edited the Trump press conference to look like he walked straight out after the journalist said "Why did you say that to me specifically?"

What actually happened was he went to other journalists, they ummed and ahhed for a few about 10 seconds without asking a question, then he left the press conference.

This is fake news.

notobtuse

Obamagate is definitely going to hurt Democrats chances in the election. If democrats circle the wagon after all the illegalities are laid bare by the Obama administration it might just turn the House back to republican control, and increase GOP Senate control.

Oh, yeah... anybody remember Joe Biden?


And I'm feeling (ooooo hoooo)
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good good night

Tonight's the night (hey!)
Let's live it up (let's live it up)
I got my money (I'm paid)
Let's spend it up (let's spend it up)

Cody montana

notobtuse wrote: »

Obamagate is definitely going to hurt Democrats chances in the election. If democrats circle the wagon after all the illegalities are laid bare by the Obama administration it might just turn the House back to republican control, and increase GOP Senate control.

Oh, yeah... anybody remember Joe Biden?


And I'm feeling (ooooo hoooo)
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good good night

Tonight's the night (hey!)
Let's live it up (let's live it up)
I got my money (I'm paid)
Let's spend it up (let's spend it up)

What’s Obamagate?

Timberrrrrrrr

Cody montana wrote: »

What’s Obamagate?

Its Trumps new go to answer/rant on Twitter,

"OBAMAGATE!!!!!!!"

Full caps so you know he is serious.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Obamagate is definitely going to hurt Democrats chances in the election. If democrats circle the wagon after all the illegalities are laid bare by the Obama administration it might just turn the House back to republican control, and increase GOP Senate control.

Oh, yeah... anybody remember Joe Biden?


And I'm feeling (ooooo hoooo)
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good night
That tonight's gonna be a good good night

Tonight's the night (hey!)
Let's live it up (let's live it up)
I got my money (I'm paid)
Let's spend it up (let's spend it up)

Oh please... To use a term favoured by Trump supporters - It's a Nothing-Burger.

Even Trump couldn't muster any detail beyond "You know what it's about" when asked directly at the Press conference yesterday