2020 US Presidential Election (aka: The Trump Coronation)

2u2me

Cody montana wrote: »

And I STILL don't know what Obamagate is.

The unproven narrative holds that Obama, along with his then-Vice President Joe Biden, former FBI Director James Comey, multiple intelligence services in both the US and abroad, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and a handful of Ukrainian oligarchs, planted a phoney theory that Trump was colluding with Russia in order to win the 2016 election.

Source

The same kind of unproven narrative that gets bandied out about Trump on these boards and twitter every day.
The same kind of unproven narrative that won awards, about Trump and Russia; but this one is just a conspiracy theory!

"In 2018 the Pulitzer awarded its prize for national reporting jointly to the Washington Post and the New York Times for “deeply sourced, relentlessly reported coverage in the public interest that dramatically furthered the nation’s understanding of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and its connections to the Trump campaign, the president-elect’s transition team and his eventual administration.”

"In 2019, a New York Times team won a Pulitzer for an “exhaustive 18-month investigation of President Donald Trump’s finances that debunked his claims of self-made wealth and revealed a business empire riddled with tax dodges”.

Source

one world order

That's a big result for a Republican winning in California with a 12% lead and a big vote of confidence for Trump.

mcmoustache

one world order wrote: »

That's a big result for a Republican winning in California with a 12% lead and a big vote of confidence for Trump.

That's awesome! If he gets a 12% lead everywhere else, he'll win the election by 12%.


How's he doing in the swing states, by the way?

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1260594257854894082

Whoever that us need to look up the definition of "huge upset". CA25 was held by the GOP from 1993 to 2018. Flipped by the dems in 2018. It's been mostly a red district for an awful long time.

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1260594257854894082

Also, quick fact check for you. Trump won that district in 2016

MadYaker

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The question wasn’t even about America’s response. The question was “why are you comparing the US’s response to that of other countries in a competitive way?”

Trump’s response aside, it’s a ridiculous question. It wasn’t designed to illicit relevant information but to portray Trump as a mean mad orange man. These “gotcha” questions don’t help anyone but the reporters asking them who get to grandstand for a few minutes.

If you’re Trump and you’ve been criticised for weeks on end by the media about not providing enough tests and now you have vastly increased testing capacity and when you tout the success that same media throws it back in your face with “why are you treating testing like it’s a competition?” I’d say you have the right be annoyed and you have the right to dismiss the question as the nonsense it is.

I’m sorry but he’s the president of the United States not some high school debater. He has no right to get annoyed. He should have the composure and intelligence to be able to fend off these types of questions. But he can’t because he is completely out of his depth in this job. You think Fox News journalists never tried to give Obama enough rope to hang himself? Of course they did but he was clever enough to turn the questions back on them or answer without landing himself in trouble.

Also worth noting that there’s no success story with regards to testing in the USA. Yes it’s increasing but it’s still way off where it should be.

hetuzozaho

Sean.3516 wrote: »

If you’re Trump and you’ve been criticised for weeks on end by the media about not providing enough tests and now you have vastly increased testing capacity and when you tout the success that same media throws it back in your face with “why are you treating testing like it’s a competition?” I’d say you have the right be annoyed and you have the right to dismiss the question as the nonsense it is.

Have they increased capacity over the last month? The figures I'm seeing don't suggest that but maybe I'm reading it wrong. How are you calculating the increase in capacity over the last few weeks?

MadYaker

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Have they increased capacity over the last month? The figures I'm seeing don't suggest they but maybe I'm reading it wrong. How are you calculating the increase in capacity over the last few weeks?

Here ya go: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

hetuzozaho

MadYaker wrote: »

Here ya go: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

I have the data. Are you interpreting that data as they have vastly increased testing capacity over the last month or so?

MadYaker

Depends on your definition of vastly. From April 11th to May 11th they increased from around .46 tests per 1000 to .96 tests per 1000.

hetuzozaho

MadYaker wrote: »

Depends on your definition of vastly. From April 11th to May 11th they increased from around .46 tests per 1000 to .96 tests per 1000.

But on capacity say. And correct me if I'm wrong. Using
https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily

As far back as Sat Apr 4 they tested 228,797 and on Wed Apr 22 they even managed 314,891 and say this Tue May 12 they did 289,472.

Kind of reads to me that they've had similar capacity for a long time now.

MadYaker

You need more than 3 data points to say it’s a trend. It’s going up and down but the overall trend is up. Like most countries they are increasing capacity but it’s nowhere near enough. Considering the amount of resources available to the US government and how much advance notice they had they should be able to do a lot more testing. Trump administration gutting the CDC over the last few years probably didn’t help.

hetuzozaho

MadYaker wrote: »

You need more than 3 data points to say it’s a trend. It’s going up and down but the overall trend is up. Like most countries they are increasing capacity but it’s nowhere near enough.

Do you need a trend for this? Maybe I'm simplifing it too much but they had the capacity for up to 228,797 tests a day back on Apr 4th no?

Billy Mays

Cody montana wrote: »

From The Federalist.
I can link the page if you like.
John Daniel Davidson is the author.

"It’s The Biggest Political Scandal Of Our Time"

"Obama administration—with the full knowledge and support of both Obama and Biden—targeted incoming Trump officials in a failed attempt to cripple the new administration with allegations it had colluded with Moscow".

"to nullify the results of the 2016 presidential election. It was in effect an attempted coup."

Are you copying and pasting others opinions as your own again?
It was too polished, sorry.

Lol

Rumbled again

ohnonotgmail

hetuzozaho wrote: »

But on capacity say. And correct me if I'm wrong. Using
https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily

As far back as Sat Apr 4 they tested 228,797 and on Wed Apr 22 they even managed 314,891 and say this Tue May 12 they did 289,472.

Kind of reads to me that they've had similar capacity for a long time now.

i wonder how many of those daily tests are conducted on white house staff? they dont seem to have any issues getting tested.

MadYaker

It is amazing to see full blown conspiracy theories now being embraced by mainstream American politics. We live in fascinating times.

Sean.3516

MadYaker wrote: »

I’m sorry but he’s the president of the United States not some high school debater. He has no right to get annoyed. He should have the composure and intelligence to be able to fend off these types of questions.

I’m sorry, why doesn’t he have the right to get annoyed? If he’s asked a question that ridiculous and then gets accused of racism for dismissing the question the way he does, he can’t even get a little bit annoyed? By the way he didn’t even get that annoyed. He stayed pretty cool throughout that exchange. You could hear a bit of frustration when he said “ask China” but he did keep his composure throughout. Even when the reporter said “why are saying that to me?”, he calmly responded “I’m saying it to any one who asks that question.” The only reason he shut down the press conference is because the reporter he called on next attempted to cede her time back to the reporter who just accused him of racism. Hardly the meltdown it was reported as.

And can we dispense with this romantic idea that the US President is supposed to be this resolute, stoic figure. A wise man on the mountain who’s above politics. Everyone that’s ever occupied that office has been both highly partisan figure as well as had human flaws. I’m sick of hearing from people who’ve never opened a history book in their lives about how he’s the meanest and baddest president in history. Ever hear of Woodrow Wilson? Guy welcomed the KKK to the White House. JFK, Clinton and others were serial adulterers. Washington and Adams were both pricks in their personal relations. FDR set the price of gold during the Great Depression according to his lucky numbers and put Japanese in concentration camps during WWII. Lincoln imprisoned journalists during the Civil War and suspended right to trial by jury.

Worst president ever? Compared to what exactly?

MadYaker wrote: »

Also worth noting that there’s no success story with regards to testing in the USA. Yes it’s increasing but it’s still way off where it should be.

Here’s a secret for you. Testing will never reach the level it needs to in order to reopen without a spike in cases. Not in a country with a spread population of 350,000,000 anyway. This isn’t even the purpose of testing. The purpose of testing is to identify hotspots so you can lock them down. Testing was billed as a universal cure all which it was never supposed to be.

You’re never going to be able to open without seeing a spike in cases as well as increased deaths. (in the absence of a vaccine which we’re 12-18 months away from) This was never in doubt. The question was can you insulate the vulnerable and stop the spike from overloading the healthcare system. In the US they have barely come close to overloading the healthcare system. They came pretty close to the edge in New York but they were never overloaded. The ventilator shortage never materialised. When was the last time you heard the word ventilator in the news?

MadYaker

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I’m sorry, why doesn’t he have the right to get annoyed? If he’s asked a question that ridiculous and then gets accused of racism for dismissing the question the way he does, he can’t even get a little bit annoyed? By the way he didn’t even get that annoyed. He stayed pretty cool throughout that exchange. You could hear a bit of frustration when he said “ask China” but he did keep his composure throughout. Even when the reporter said “why are saying that to me?”, he calmly responded “I’m saying it to any one who asks that question.” The only reason he shut down the press conference is because the reporter he called on next attempted to cede her time back to the reporter who just accused him of racism. Hardly the meltdown it was reported as.

And can we dispense with this romantic idea that the US President is supposed to be this resolute, stoic figure. A wise man on the mountain who’s above politics. Everyone that’s ever occupied that office has been both highly partisan figure as well as had human flaws. I’m sick of hearing from people who’ve never opened a history book in their lives about how he’s the meanest and baddest president in history. Ever hear of Woodrow Wilson? Guy welcomed the KKK to the White House. JFK, Clinton and others were serial adulterers. Washington and Adams were both pricks in their personal relations. FDR set the price of gold during the Great Depression according to his lucky numbers and put Japanese in concentration camps during WWII. Lincoln imprisoned journalists during the Civil War and suspended right to trial by jury.

Worst president ever? Compared to what exactly?


Here’s a secret for you. Testing will never reach the level it needs to in order to reopen without a spike in cases. Not in a country with a spread population of 350,000,000 anyway. This isn’t even the purpose of testing. The purpose of testing is to identify hotspots so you can lock them down. Testing was billed as a universal cure all which it was never supposed to be.

You’re never going to be able to open without seeing a spike in cases as well as increased deaths. (in the absence of a vaccine which we’re 12-18 months away from) This was never in doubt. The question was can you insulate the vulnerable and stop the spike from overloading the healthcare system. In the US they have barely come close to overloading the healthcare system. They came pretty close to the edge in New York but they were never overloaded. The ventilator shortage never materialised. When was the last time you heard the word ventilator in the news?

The entire bolded bit is a strawman argument that you created yourself so I wont be responding. This thread isn't about other US presidents, its about the presidential election and Trump/Biden.

You may think it's acceptable for a presidnt to simply walk out of a press conference because he isn't capable of responding to the questions put to him but it just isn't. Its the actions of a sulking child. It doesn't matter if the reporters are taking the piss. Trump should be able to handle it but he can't. You need to start holding politicians to much much higher standards. Or maybe you just lower your standards for Trump for some unfathomable reason? (a lot of people seem to do this)

It's not quite true to say the health system wasn't overwhelmed. The hospitals in NYC where definitely overwhelmed. Maybe they can avoid that happening in other states but I wouldn't be too hopeful. Especially in the autumn when they will still have huge numbers of coronavirus cases and the flu season on top.

Boggles

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom.

Vote Trump!

That is my work, anyone says differently and i'll fight ye.

Quin_Dub

Looks like the Flynn case is going to run on for a bit longer

Court asks retired judge to oppose Justice Dept. effort to drop Michael Flynn case, examine whether ex-Trump adviser committed perjury

Former federal prosecutor Randall Eliason said that although the order is not a definitive sign of what Sullivan will ultimately do with Flynn’s case, it is the clearest indication yet that he is not willing to go along easily with the Justice Department’s request.

“It’s clear that he’s not simply going to take the government’s motion at face value, and he wants to probe the reasons for this reversal after two years, and I think that’s completely understandable,” Eliason said.

Eliason said Sullivan’s contemplation of holding Flynn in contempt for perjury exposed what has long been a flaw in Flynn arguing that his plea should be undone. Flynn admitted in court under oath three times before two different judges that he lied to the FBI.

“They can’t have it both ways,” Eliason said. “If they’re going to say now he didn’t lie to the FBI, then he lied to the judge. … But presumably [U.S. Attorney General William P.] Barr’s DOJ is not going to prosecute him for perjury, so another option is the judge could hold him in contempt for lying to the judge.”

The retired Judge appointed to the task is the one that presided over the John Gotti case..

one world order

mcmoustache wrote: »

That's awesome! If he gets a 12% lead everywhere else, he'll win the election by 12%.


How's he doing in the swing states, by the way?

Latest CNN political poll for the swing states has Trump at 52% and sleepy Joe at 45%

Sean.3516

MadYaker wrote: »

The entire bolded bit is a strawman argument that you created yourself so I wont be responding. This thread isn't about other US presidents, its about the presidential election and Trump/Biden.

People on this thread routinely say that this is the worst president in history. The purpose of that paragraph is to demonstrate how ridiculous that statement is. If people want to play the “who’s the worst president” game, that’s fine but it’ll be a stiffer competition than people think.

MadYaker wrote: »

You may think it's acceptable for a presidnt to simply walk out of a press conference because he isn't capable of responding to the questions put to him but it just isn't. Its the actions of a sulking child. It doesn't matter if the reporters are taking the piss. Trump should be able to handle it but he can't.

I think he did respond to the question. Responding to the question doesn’t mean giving the kind of answer the reporter wants to hear. (Although I’d say the reporter was quite satisfied with Trump’s response. I mean how did she think Trump would respond to that question when she wrote it? Those gotcha questions are clearly designed to elicit a Trump “meltdown”)

He didn’t run off sulking from the question. The next reporter he called on tried to cede her time back to the Asian reporter in an effort to prolong the exchange and bring Trump to full troth. “Let’s see if we can make the Orange Man explode.” Trump wasn’t having it so he ended to conference.

MadYaker wrote: »

You need to start holding politicians to much much higher standards. Or maybe you just lower your standards for Trump for some unfathomable reason? (a lot of people seem to do this)

I’ve never looked to politicians for examples of how good people should act. Policy is the important thing. They’re there to do a job. If a plumber is a good enough plumber, you don’t refuse to hire him on the grounds he uses salty language while he works. You’re standard doesn’t exist. Occasionally we get a “great politician”. By occasionally, I mean once every fifty years. The vast majority will disappoint you.

The claim that the US Presidency only became degraded as a result of Trump is devoid of any context of the past 30 years. The last “presidential” president we’ve ever seen was HW Bush. Starting with Clinton, the archetypal character associated with the US President has been on a downward slope. The first celebrity president wasn’t Trump, it was Obama. He treated the Presidency like a late night show hobnobbing with celebrities and the like. Like Trump he had hardly any political qualifications. He’d been a senator for about five minutes and before that he was a glorified community organiser.

MadYaker wrote: »

It's not quite true to say the health system wasn't overwhelmed. The hospitals in NYC where definitely overwhelmed. Maybe they can avoid that happening in other states but I wouldn't be too hopeful. Especially in the autumn when they will still have huge numbers of coronavirus cases and the flu season on top.

Nobody in NYC who needed a ventilator was deprived of one. Andrew Cuomo has admitted this. They had much more ventilators than were needed. The hospital ship Trump sent was never even needed. In terms of beds required, makeshift facilities had to be set up in places like Central Park but that’s not a system overload. That’s successfully increasing capacity to the level required. Doctors were never in the position of deciding who lived and who died as people feared they might be.

There was also a major gap between NYC and pretty much anywhere else in the US. Nowhere else in the US came close to New York. There was never a danger of other states being overloaded. New York is a unique case in terms of population and population density. The state alone had more cases than any other COUNTRY.

Carfacemandog

one world order wrote: »

Latest CNN political poll for the swing states has Trump at 52% and sleepy Joe at 45%

Hold on, what ever happened to your claims that:

one world order wrote: »

the fake MSM

Can't be trusted as the

one world order wrote: »

MSM are totally dishonest.

And

one world order wrote: »

The MSM is left leaning and the main source of control of populations by those who control the world operating in the shadows.

And that all whenever there is positive news about Trump,

one world order wrote: »

The corrupt MSM won't cover this

You're after going and disproving your previous points by showing the 'MSM' CNN willingly publishing the results of these polls instead of covering them up or 'corruptly' making up 'fake' numbers to fit their 'population control from the shadows' agenda.

Surely you can't be that blind to the ludicrous inconsistency of your posts on the matter of the media when-and-as it suits, I'm trying to take your posts at face value but are you sure you're not being obtuse intentional here?

ohnonotgmail

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Hold on, what ever happened to your claims that:



Can't be trusted as the



And



And that all whenever there is positive news about Trump,



You're after going and disproving your previous points by showing the 'MSM' CNN willingly publishing the results of these polls instead of covering them up or 'corruptly' making up 'fake' numbers to fit their 'population control from the shadows' agenda.

Surely you can't be that blind to the ludicrous inconsistency of your posts on the matter of the media when-and-as it suits, I'm trying to take your posts at face value but are you sure you're not being obtuse here?

i see what you did there

osarusan

Sean.3516 wrote: »

We’ve been over this before. There is a major difference between riffing like a salesman, exaggerating and speaking in superlative language as Trump does, and intentionally lying with the intention to mislead.

When Trump repeatedly makes untrue claims that would have the effect of misleading people (in his favour) regarding the quality/extent of the US response to this crisis , I think it's reasonable to conclude they are doing so deliberately.


I don't think the 'last time he just got confused, this time he's riffing like a salesman' argument is coherent or reasonable at all.

Carfacemandog

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i see what you did there

Ha, funny spot though that was completely coincidental/unintended!

Edited it accordingly though, to save some people's feelings.

one world order

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Hold on, what ever happened to your claims that:



Can't be trusted as the



And



And that all whenever there is positive news about Trump,



You're after going and disproving your previous points by showing the 'MSM' CNN willingly publishing the results of these polls instead of covering them up or 'corruptly' making up 'fake' numbers to fit their 'population control from the shadows' agenda.

Surely you can't be that blind to the ludicrous inconsistency of your posts on the matter of the media when-and-as it suits, I'm trying to take your posts at face value but are you sure you're not being obtuse intentional here?

These polls were giving Hillary a big lead just before 2016. Your right, the only poll that matters is 3rd November 2020.

Sean.3516

osarusan wrote: »

When Trump repeatedly makes untrue claims that would have the effect of misleading people (in his favour) regarding the quality/extent of the US response to this crisis , I think it's reasonable to conclude they are doing so deliberately.

Why?

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think the 'last time he just got confused, this time he's riffing like a salesman' argument is coherent or reasonable at all.

I didn’t say he got confused last time. He wasn’t confused. He obviously believed what he was saying was correct. I said he misremembered. And I think he was riffing like a salesman both times.

It’s obvious that Trump just hears his advisors tell him a lot of things during the day and then he goes into the conference and just riffs away based on what he’s been hearing and it all comes out in a big mess. He doesn’t plan this all out in advance. If you pay attention to which remarks get Trump in trouble and which don’t, it’s almost always his unprepared ad lib remarks, the riffing, that gets him in trouble. We rarely have these issues with teleprompter Trump.

osarusan

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Why?

Why do I think it's reasonable to conclude that when he repeatedly makes untrue claims that mislead in his favour, he is doing so deliberately? Because it's the most straightforward explanation.


This:

Sean.3516 wrote: »

It’s obvious that Trump just hears his advisors tell him a lot of things during the day and then he goes into the conference and just riffs away based on what he’s been hearing and it all comes out in a big mess. He doesn’t plan this all out in advance.

involves jumping through hoops to get to an explanation.

notobtuse

Brian? wrote: »

Also, quick fact check for you. Trump won that district in 2016

Correct, it's not as big a deal as Republicans are making it out to be. But it does show that if the GOP can turn around a trend in CA (the most liberal state in the nation) they can do it elsewhere.