Opening a Coffee Shop in the back of a Bookshop

looksee

There was a home store near where I previously lived, sold small pieces of interesting furniture and somewhat high end decoration bits. It was a nice place, bit expensive but unusual. On a small business estate with a few specialised shops, on the edge of town, not the most promising site. Biggish place with two levels. They had a coffee stand in one corner where you could help yourself to a cup of coffee. Then the coffee stand got an attendant and they started stocking a few packaged biscuits etc. Then it turned into a small cafe in the corner...then the cafe got bigger - an entire section of the store, and the stock disappeared to make room. Then they closed for a couple of weeks and the most of the store turned into cafe. Now the entire store is cafe, upstairs and down, with cookery classes occasionally upstairs. The place is usually packed and parking is at a premium.

Sadly, imo, they have lost the run of themselves a bit with a very synthetic greeter and seater and 'please wait to be seated' signs and waitresses dashing around trying to look american, or something. The food is ok to good, expensive and served with more flourish than value. Still, its very popular and is obviously doing very well. I prefer rather more relaxed and laid back myself.

Darc19

looksee wrote: »

There was a home store near where I previously lived, sold small pieces of interesting furniture and somewhat high end decoration bits. It was a nice place, bit expensive but unusual. On a small business estate with a few specialised shops, on the edge of town, not the most promising site. Biggish place with two levels. They had a coffee stand in one corner where you could help yourself to a cup of coffee. Then the coffee stand got an attendant and they started stocking a few packaged biscuits etc. Then it turned into a small cafe in the corner...then the cafe got bigger - an entire section of the store, and the stock disappeared to make room. Then they closed for a couple of weeks and the most of the store turned into cafe. Now the entire store is cafe, upstairs and down, with cookery classes occasionally upstairs. The place is usually packed and parking is at a premium.

Sadly, imo, they have lost the run of themselves a bit with a very synthetic greeter and seater and 'please wait to be seated' signs and waitresses dashing around trying to look american, or something. The food is ok to good, expensive and served with more flourish than value. Still, its very popular and is obviously doing very well. I prefer rather more relaxed and laid back myself.

I'm sitting on one of their couches (when they were clearing them out) if it's the place I think it is

Waterford?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

There's a bookshop where I am locally who added a coffee shop area a few years back.

It does a roaring trade for coffee as well as some delicious home baked goods (despite there being a number of other coffee shops within walking distance too) so its definitely a proven business idea that can be successful.

Good mix of clientele, plus if the coffee/bakery is nice then you can expect to do a decent take away trade as well.

Best of luck with it!

cameramonkey

Good luck with your venture. Don't listen to the doomsters and naysayers. It is your life go for it.

I got involved with a cafe restaurant 7 years ago, a very different concept to what you are doing. I got lots of advice from friends and passersby when I was doing the building work most was well meaning.
I was mainly advised against opening and told that all previous businesses in that location had failed. Again I think the advice was genuine and heartfelt as people didn't want to see us fail. The advice was wrong and the venture is still going strong, we have since opened two other places and are opening another towards the end of 2020.

As someone said its hard but not impossible to make money from coffee and food but if you have a nice environment, friendly staff, keep the coffee very good and not rip off prices and the food fresh and again not rip off then you are halfway to success.

I say go for it , if it works great, if not **** it. Good luck, keep us posted here.

cameramonkey

GreeBo wrote: »

Footfall is what translates to sales.
.

That's not true , I know a cafe in the hills south of Dublin with 0 footfall and it's very very busy. If you look at a place like the farm house cafe on the Long mile in Dublin, crap location on a busy dual carriage way but people go there because its really really good. Build it and they will come does work in the food business if you are good enough and have the right price.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

cameramonkey wrote: »

That's not true , I know a cafe in the hills south of Dublin with 0 footfall and it's very very busy. If you look at a place like the farm house cafe on the Long mile in Dublin, crap location on a busy dual carriage way but people go there because its really really good. Build it and they will come does work in the food business if you are good enough and have the right price.

Timbertrove?

cameramonkey

gomgat wrote: »

Well ... I totally agree with you in principle and have actually thought about it. Reality is that espresso based drinks are extremely popular, so we probably wouldn't survive if we don't do them. A lot of the noise are from the electric grinders. We're thinking of having manual grinders, and should be able to manage that with them with the volumes we expect. But, a lot of other places do not offer other types of Coffee (most don't understand the difference between a Black coffee and an Americano), where we will, so not every order will be a noisemaker hahhaa.

Decent GF and Plant based options are absolutely high on our priority list as are options for people with allergies. I am intolerant to Milk, not lactose intolerant, but intolerant/mildly allergic to the actual milk proteins. It's so hard for me when I go to Cafes to find decent milk-free options. I mean most now offer milk alternatives for an extra charge, but try to find a menu where milk isn't an ingredient in almost every item, especially where I'm from.

Be careful not to think in terms of what you like or need and then base your strategy on that. If you for instance decided to be a vegetarian restaurant you are already cutting the amount of people who will potentially be your customers. Cater to the widest clientele possible. 95% of the coffees we sell are not soy, oat or almond.

cameramonkey

Lennon Faint Mandolin wrote: »

Timbertrove?

https://www.thehazelhouse.ie/


Never been to the Timbertrove. The Hazel House is a bit more off the beaten track, its not close to something like the hell fire or Masseys that have huge visitor numbers. The hazel House has good food but the service could be better. It still dosnt stop it from being very busy.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

cameramonkey wrote: »

https://www.thehazelhouse.ie/


Never been to the Timbertrove. The Hazel House is a bit more off the beaten track, its not close to something like the hell fire or Masseys that have huge visitor numbers. The hazel House has good food but the service could be better. It still dosnt stop it from being very busy.

Must give it a try so, thanks!

hometruths

Have been following the thread with interest as am thinking about a similar question in reverse - I’m interested in starting a bookshop, and want to provide coffee to increase footfall.

Serious question - I want to offer free coffee, am I subject to same regulations if I am not actually selling it?

duploelabs

schmittel wrote: »

Have been following the thread with interest as am thinking about a similar question in reverse - I’m interested in starting a bookshop, and want to provide coffee to increase footfall.

Serious question - I want to offer free coffee, am I subject to same regulations if I am not actually selling it?

Certainly within health and safety regulations, yes

PickYourName

schmittel wrote: »

Serious question - I want to offer free coffee, am I subject to same regulations if I am not actually selling it?

Short answer: "yes".

Longer version: requirement to register a food business is set out in EU and National legislation, which is based on the EU General Food Law Regulation, which includes the definition: " ‘food business’ means any undertaking, whether for profit or not and whether public or private, carrying out any of the activities related to any stage of production, processing and distribution of food" (my emphasis).

I've no doubt you'll have someone questioning the sense of giving coffee away, but what I'd question is why you wouldn't want to be regulated. It offers a degree of protection in the sense you know you're doing everything correctly.

cameramonkey

schmittel wrote: »

Have been following the thread with interest as am thinking about a similar question in reverse - I’m interested in starting a bookshop, and want to provide coffee to increase footfall.

Serious question - I want to offer free coffee, am I subject to same regulations if I am not actually selling it?

Giving out free stuff is not a great idea unless you are giving to regular customers. We gave free coffee to passers by when opening a cafe, never saw 99% of them again. You dont need customers who go to you for free coffee they are not the sort to buy and often will just keep taking. Either provide it for a reasonable price or not at all.

hometruths

PickYourName wrote: »

Short answer: "yes".

Longer version: requirement to register a food business is set out in EU and National legislation, which is based on the EU General Food Law Regulation, which includes the definition: " ‘food business’ means any undertaking, whether for profit or not and whether public or private, carrying out any of the activities related to any stage of production, processing and distribution of food" (my emphasis).

I've no doubt you'll have someone questioning the sense of giving coffee away, but what I'd question is why you wouldn't want to be regulated. It offers a degree of protection in the sense you know you're doing everything correctly.

Thanks, I think that answers my question. Yes I want ensure everything is correct in as far as I want to meet health and safety standards but I don't want to register as a food business.

hometruths

cameramonkey wrote: »

Giving out free stuff is not a great idea unless you are giving to regular customers. We gave free coffee to passers by when opening a cafe, never saw 99% of them again. You dont need customers who go to you for free coffee they are not the sort to buy and often will just keep taking. Either provide it for a reasonable price or not at all.

I am not expecting to make money on giving away free coffee, the economics of it are largely irrelevant to me.

PickYourName

schmittel wrote: »

Thanks, I think that answers my question. Yes I want ensure everything is correct in as far as I want to meet health and safety standards but I don't want to register as a food business.

I'm no expert, but I would have thought even something as simple as preparing and "selling" coffee for the public on an ongoing basis would make you a food business by definition, in which case it's mandatory to register.

hometruths

PickYourName wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I would have thought even something as simple as preparing and "selling" coffee for the public on an ongoing basis would make you a food business by definition, in which case it's mandatory to register.

The reason I don't want to to be classified as a food business is because the bookshop will be staffed by volunteers without any formal food training.

My idea was to provide a self service coffee machine that people could help themselves to, the only input from the shop staff would be to ensure the machine and cups etc were kept clean.

Based on the definition I think erring on the side of caution it probably would be a food business because if coffee is a food then I guess even providing access to a self service machine is technically "activities related to any stage of production, processing and distribution of food"

cameramonkey

schmittel wrote: »

I am not expecting to make money on giving away free coffee, the economics of it are largely irrelevant to me.

I understand that but in my experience the people you attract by giving out free coffee are those that you dont really want unless you just give it to good customers only.