2020 6 Nations - Ireland vs Scotland match thread

Neil3030

Error drives learning so I'm reassured by a mixed performance; show's we are changing the gameplan.

Credit to Scotland; probably could have won that on another day.

pickarooney

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A 7 point win is not “by the skin of our teeth”

Strange comment....I would have always though1-2 point would be skin of teeth

Hogg dropping the ball over the line is "by the skin of our teeth"

sydthebeat

reg114 wrote: »

Irony is Kearney played over 100 games in that position and his greatest failing was his own inability to pass.

One man's "greatest failing was his inability to pass" is another man's "greatest asset was his ability to retain possession and recycle"

prawnsambo

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I disagree.

You're wrong though.

Shefwedfan

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Stander was the only one who stood out.

You should watch the game again so

Burkie1203

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Stander was the only one who stood out.

Aki, VDF Ryan were excellent too
Sexton was good. Back three has a bit going for them and Henderson robbed a few Lineouts

Thought Toner made some great tackles in the last 5 minutes.

Doris Ringrose Kilcoyne (& furlong?) All off injured so that makes next week's team selection interesting. I think Cooney has to start.

We have evolved a bit. We were trying to get a bit wider but it will take time. We also looked for offloads a good bit more. Some positive signs

Faugheen

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Stander was the only one who stood out.

Are you serious?

VDF won two and a half turnovers and latched on to Stander for his first turnover.

You clearly weren’t watching the same game as anyone else.

The back row as a unit were excellent

Shefwedfan

reg114 wrote: »

Irony is Kearney played over 100 games in that position and his greatest failing was his own inability to pass.

Kearney never got to 100 caps, he is at 95

His greatest failing, well that is a section of fans never liked him.....nothing to do with Rob

Seems the same set of fans have a new player in their sights!!!! It’s a pity

mfceiling

KaneToad wrote: »

Our wings were mediocre today. Dave Kearney would improve things on that front.

You reckon?

Utopia Parkway

Faugheen wrote: »

Are you serious?

VDF won two and a half turnovers and latched on to Stander for his first turnover.

You clearly weren’t watching the same game as anyone else.

The back row as a unit were excellent

I just wasn't blind to the bad stuff like some.

Faugheen

troyzer wrote: »

It's not the point.

He's going to make it very easy to defend him if he doesn't keep defenders guessing.

See Stander, CJ.

But what would passing have actually done?

If you’re playing close to a pod of forwards the one thing you don’t do is throw the ball away from them unless that player is in space.

There was no occasion where Larmour passing the ball would have changed it. Don’t pass the ball for the sake of passing it.

Faugheen

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I just wasn't blind to the bad stuff like some.

What’s the bad stuff about VDF, then?

JPCN1

almostover wrote: »

Murray was better than Cooney today.....

But good to see genuine competition for the jersey

Don't think he was. He was ponderous and certainly didn't nail down the jersey today for me.

prawnsambo

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I just wasn't blind to the bad stuff like some.

Just blind to everything not involving Stander it seems.

Neil3030

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I just wasn't blind to the bad stuff like some.

The bad things Vdf did? Could you elaborate on that?

Utopia Parkway

prawnsambo wrote: »

Just blind to everything not involving Stander it seems.

He played very well in fairness to him given the amount of stick he's come in for lately.

prawnsambo

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

He played very well in fairness to him given the amount of stick he's come in for lately.

Yes. You could even make a strong case for him to keep the 6 jersey.

Always Tired

pickarooney wrote: »

Hogg dropping the ball over the line is "by the skin of our teeth"

Plus the other 3 tries Scotland should have gotten. Ireland could have easily lost.

prawnsambo

Ringrose hand injury.

molloyjh

I'm a bit worried that some of the same lack of intensity and aggression seemed to be evident last season existed out there again today. Certainly in patches. Thought VDF, Stander, Sexton, Conway and Larmour went well. Injuries are an absolute kicker though and wouldnt have helped towards the end. I still think the POM, VDF, Stander back row simply doesnt work. But is Deegan up for next week? Doris should be back for week 3 but cant see him available next week.

Also worried about Ringrose. No update on him deliberately would make you nervous. A hand injury could be nothing, could be serious.

Team for next week for me:

Healy Herring Porter
Toner Ryan
Stander Deegan VDF

Cooney Sexton
Henshaw Aki
Stockdale Larmour Conway

Kelleher, McGrath, Furlong, Henderson, POM, Murray, Byrne, Addison

almostover

Neil3030 wrote: »

The bad things Vdf did? Could you elaborate on that?

Why are people arguing about this? The backrow was very good today, all three of them. VdF was a close second for MOM. This provincial bickering is tiresome.

P.Walnuts

Faugheen wrote: »

What’s the bad stuff about VDF, then?

Mate I like VDF, but are you related to him or something?

Every time he's mentioned you come charging in

lawred2

Mattie Williams has some carbon footprint

awec

Cooney for me next week.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

CJ Stander has been absolutely phenomenal.

Anyone who says anything else is an eejit of the highest order.

Yep. I've certainly been one of his doubters but he was top class today.

lawred2

Always Tired wrote: »

Plus the other 3 tries Scotland should have gotten. Ireland could have easily lost.

Scotland will be kicking themselves

ROG and Horgan saying we still look like Joe is the coach, our exiting from our 22 suggests they are wrong.

There were obvious differences today, they just didn't work and we failed to comprehensively break down Scotland as a result.

almostover

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm a bit worried that some of the same lack of intensity and aggression seemed to be evident last season existed out there again today. Certainly in patches. Thought VDF, Stander, Sexton, Conway and Larmour went well. Injuries are an absolute kicker though and wouldnt have helped towards the end. I still think the POM, VDF, Stander back row simply doesnt work. But is Deegan up for next week? Doris should be back for week 3 but cant see him available next week.

Also worried about Ringrose. No update on him deliberately would make you nervous. A hand injury could be nothing, could be serious.

Team for next week for me:

Healy Herring Porter
Toner Ryan
Stander Deegan VDF

Cooney Sexton
Henshaw Aki
Stockdale Larmour Conway

Kelleher, McGrath, Furlong, Henderson, POM, Murray, Byrne, Addison

Why don't you think the POM, VdF & Stander backrow doesn't work? They played really well as a unit today. It's well balanced. Granted I'd like to see Doris go at 8 again next week if not ruled out with POM on the bench. Deegan is a bit off this level currently IMO, but he will get there. I'd rate JOD ahead of Deegan.

AbusesToilets

almostover wrote: »

Why don't you think the POM, VdF & Stander backrow doesn't work? They played really well as a unit today. It's well balanced. Granted I'd like to see Doris go at 8 again next week if not ruled out with POM on the bench. Deegan is a bit off this level currently IMO, but he will get there. I'd rate JOD ahead of Deegan.

Probably the evidence of the last 2yrs? Folks are wildly overinflating a decent performance against a terrible Scottish team.

prawnsambo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Probably the evidence of the last 2yrs? Folks are wildly overinflating a decent performance against a terrible Scottish team.

That Scotland team today weren't 'terrible'.

Burkie1203

almostover wrote: »

Why are people arguing about this? The backrow was very good today, all three of them. VdF was a close second for MOM. This provincial bickering is tiresome.

The backrow defensively works. Offensively it doesn't. We need a 2nd ball carrier in there. So either VDF or POM bench and Stander @6 and Doris or Deegan @8.

If we want to see a move away from the way we played under JS then that also requires some changes in personnel

Clegg

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1223684405077647360?s=19

Del.Monte

Rust and one-sided reffing made it a poor game but I enjoyed the 1st half. Conor Murray played well and should hold his starting place. Onward and upward.

lawred2

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Probably the evidence of the last 2yrs? Folks are wildly overinflating a decent performance against a terrible Scottish team.

One of the better Scottish performances in Dublin on a while.. terrible!?

molloyjh

almostover wrote: »

Why don't you think the POM, VdF & Stander backrow doesn't work? They played really well as a unit today. It's well balanced. Granted I'd like to see Doris go at 8 again next week if not ruled out with POM on the bench. Deegan is a bit off this level currently IMO, but he will get there. I'd rate JOD ahead of Deegan.

Did they? For me we struggled to get any real go forward in tight again. When we looked good it was putting width on the ball and having Sexton, Ringrose or Larmour exploiting little gaps. I'd prob need to watch it back again, but I felt we struggled up front and were pretty one dimensional.

almostover

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The backrow defensively works. Offensively it doesn't. We need a 2nd ball carrier in there. So either VDF or POM bench and Stander @6 and Doris or Deegan @8.

If we want to see a move away from the way we played under JS then that also requires some changes in personnel

Think the backrow that started today is our best option currently. CJ is best at 6.

ironingbored

Del.Monte wrote: »

Rust and one-sided reffing made it a poor game but I enjoyed the 1st half. Conor Murray played well and should hold his starting place. Onward and upward.

Can't agree with this.

He missed touch in the first minute and Scotland pummeled us for 2 mins.
Then poor (incontestable) box kick put Scotland again on the front foot.
We spent the first 5 mins defending.
Thought he was slow to the breakdown regularly and ponderous when he got there.
IMHO Cooney has to start next week.

molloyjh

almostover wrote: »

Think the backrow that started today is our best option currently. CJ is best at 6.

Totally agree with this. None of the back row played badly today. But they didnt add much to our attacking game really. Stander had a few good carries but that was it.

iano.p

Wasn't a bad game today. Scotland will be kicking themselves, they should have had the win today. Cj was the best player today. But I would be worried going into next week,

TheCitizen

Del.Monte wrote: »

Rust and one-sided reffing made it a poor game but I enjoyed the 1st half. Conor Murray played well and should hold his starting place. Onward and upward.

Cooney is better. Murray on the bench

PhlegmyMoses

VDF carries well for Leinster and is often right up there with the backs to provide support on a line break. We never really see it for Ireland though. He definitely has that element to his game. Wont truck it up the middle and gain yards all day but will hit soft shoulders and gaps.

Clegg

If Doris is.out next weekend I'd out Deegan straight into the side. He doesn't have the bulk of Doris but we're desperate for good carriers in the pack right now.

TheCitizen

iano.p wrote: »

Wasn't a bad game today. Scotland will be kicking themselves, they should have had the win today. Cj was the best player today. But I would be worried going into next week,

Scotland beat themselves as they usually do. If we play like we did today next week Wales will win easily.

JRant

On another day with a semi competent ref and a functioning TMO Scotland could have had a couple of yellow cards against them for persistent infringements and a couple of dodgy hits. Scotland made an absolute mess of the breakdown all day with complete impunity.

I think we'll learn more from today than a comfortable win. Some good performances but a little rusty overall.

CJ and VDF were outstanding.

Ryan had a very quiet day, seemed off the pace a little.

Aki played with real purpose along with Larmour and Conway when he was actually brought in to the game.

Sexton looked like a man who hasn't played any rugby this year.

Stockdale was subdued and played quite poorly.

Murray was poor, some half decent moments but the pace at ruck time was pedestrian and he is just not bringing his teammates into the game at all. Players can't get front foot ball because they don't know when he's going to pass the bloody ball. No tempo to his game at all.

Ardillaun

The final whistle was a relief. I thought we deserved to lose. What has happened to our scrum? Worrying stuff there. The back-row were good enough in defence today but they will face sterner challenges in the weeks ahead. Near the end a Scottish back tried to round VdF and I knew he wouldn’t manage it. Doris’s injury was such bad luck for the lad.

Apart from the try, our attacking play was uninspiring - I had that sinking Japan feeling again. The wings weren’t given much of a chance to shine. I’d also call for Cooney next week. On the bright side, Johnny behaved in a fairly captainesque fashion and avoided any open rows with his team-mates.

Scotland will be kicking themselves. They need to develop a little more guile on the obstruction front.

Shefwedfan

Always Tired wrote: »

Plus the other 3 tries Scotland should have gotten. Ireland could have easily lost.

So now we rank the end score by tries a team could of got? So good defence now is pointless?

How many tries could Ireland have got?

Shefwedfan

Ardillaun wrote: »

The final whistle was a relief. I thought we deserved to lose. What has happened to our scrum? Worrying stuff there. The back-row were good enough in defence today but they will face sterner challenges in the weeks ahead. Near the end a Scottish back tried to round VdF and I knew he wouldn’t manage it. Doris’s injury was such bad luck for the lad.

Apart from the try, our attacking play was uninspiring - I had that sinking Japan feeling again. The wings weren’t given much of chance to shine. I’d also call for Cooney next week. On the bright side, Johnny behaved in a fairly captainesque fashion and avoided any open rows with his team-mates.

Why did we deserve to lose?

perrito caliente

Dreadful box kicking from Murray but otherwise good I thought. Cooney an improvement when he came on though. Back row was splendid. Stander deserved motm. Dropping the ball on the try line was criminal by Hogg
.

fitz

molloyjh wrote: »

Totally agree with this. None of the back row played badly today. But they didnt add much to our attacking game really. Stander had a few good carries but that was it.

This. Terribly disappointed for Doris, and selfishly...it's frustrating to not get a chance to see what way things would have gone with him on the pitch.

Defense needs to be much more aggressive, and we need to get the ball away from rucks quicker.
Cooney to start next week imo.

This was clearly a game Scotland targeted, I expect their heads will drop and they'll limp through the rest of the tournament.

The way the game was reffed suited Scotland.
I'm getting increasingly frustrated that teams with great discipline don't get the benefit of it as much as they should. Scotland should definitely have been down to 14 today for 10 minutes today, and they got away with blatant infringements that allowed then to slow down our game. We need to get much better at dealing with that... Stop just taking contact and going from ruck to ruck...start getting rid of the ball out of, or before contact more frequently. That's going to take some time I guess.

Shefwedfan

ironingbored wrote: »

Can't agree with this.

He missed touch in the first minute and Scotland pummeled us for 2 mins.
Then poor (incontestable) box kick put Scotland again on the front foot.
We spent the first 5 mins defending.
Thought he was slow to the breakdown regularly and ponderous when he got there.
IMHO Cooney has to start next week.

I agree

He is far too slow, we cannot build any speed. At one stage the ball was been fired out of ruck quickly twice in first half, it was Herring I think he played it quicker than Murray

Also a number of time he threw balls and Sexton was reaching over head to gather and slowing his pace....it’s killing Ireland going forward

Cooney needs to get a shot next week but I doubt it will happen