Ireland's sex trade Vs Germany's sex trade

jimmycrackcorm

When it comes to abortion a women should have rights over her body.
But if she wants to make money from her body then she has no rights.

Seems we still don't trust women to make their own choices.

dotsman

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The vast majority of prostitutes don’t have access to social media or lobby groups to tell you how shìt it is, so all you’d be hearing is all you’d want to hear, which would suit your point of view really. The accounts from the people you want to hear from would be about as useful as tits on a bull.

WTF???

Is your hatred of these women so bad, that you actually believe they are too stupid to figure out how to work computers and smartphones?

You do realise a lot of them have a huge online presence???

One eyed Jack

dotsman wrote: »

WTF???

Is your hatred of these women so bad, that you actually believe they are too stupid to figure out how to work computers and smartphones?

You do realise a lot of them have a huge online presence???

What hatred of women are you talking about? And no, a lot of prostitutes (both men and women), don’t have a huge online presence, that’s the point I was making - the vast majority of prostitutes don’t have a huge online presence because they don’t have access to social media or lobby groups to tell anyone how shìt it is. I didn’t say anything about their intellect.

Gynoid

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1104&context=dignity

I am not going to go into this in a big way mostly because Im too lazy today to do the back up links. I notice however that recurring and laughable trope of how punters can get to be with all the supermodels in the sex world. Fact is in Germany for example 60 to 80% of prostitites come from abroad and if one reads their stories a good many end up servicing huge numbers of clients daily in flat rate brothels in a market where the prices are always falling due to heavy competition from trafficked women who are made to do anything requested. Sexy.

But Im not going to in any way link trafficking and so called sex work because that is a wicked illiberal sin. I will just leave the link above which is a 2018 report on the traumatic brain injury rates among the gorgeous and willing supermodels in "sex work", which runs at very high rates, with a higher percentage suffering more ordinary head injuries from throttling, shoving etc. More sexiness.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Gynoid wrote: »

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1104&context=dignity

I am not going to go into this in a big way mostly because Im too lazy today to do the back up links. I notice however that recurring and laughable trope of how punters can get to be with all the supermodels in the sex world. Fact is in Germany for example 60 to 80% of prostitites come from abroad and if one reads their stories a good many end up servicing huge numbers of clients daily in flat rate brothels in a market where the prices are always falling due to heavy competition from trafficked women who are made to do anything requested. Sexy.

But Im not going to in any way link trafficking and so called sex work because that is a wicked illiberal sin. I will just leave the link above which is a 2018 report on the traumatic brain injury rates among the gorgeous and willing supermodels in "sex work", which runs at very high rates, with a higher percentage suffering more ordinary head injuries from throttling, shoving etc. More sexiness.

Good post.

My question as to this thread was more so the sex work paradigm in Germany specifically cause, I have heard and read about these "mega brothels" which are endorsed and regulated by the government, and this video claiming the negative implications of that setup.

To me, that occurs supposedly as to effective rights violations of workers, but additionally in promoting this subculture of entitlement in clientele where they feel, "my money, my choice - I'll do as I please".

I will say, there's a fine line to be drawn in that realm, and of course it's gonna be a reflection in some capacity of the intergender relational disparity - men who have difficulty relating to women, and vice-versa.

Both sides have their grievances.

To the point however, it's the German model in particular that obviously raises questions in this instance as, I know beyond any doubt, this idea of "I paid, I can do however I please", does absolutely NOT exist in sex work models in other countries.

Netherlands red light areas, I mean I guess you could technically classify them as outdoor mega brothels - in a sense?
But nothing about that setup would reflect the complaints being expressed in that video.

The Irish setup - I've yet to happen upon anything remotely similar in terms normalized subcultures where that "self entitlement" is in place.

Point being - Germany, despite legality and regulation - assuming this videos contentions are valid - they're obviously doing something wrong.

Now Ireland currently, one faction is pushing hard for criminalization and quashing "demand".
Another faction is pushing for regulation and full legalization.

If the latter were to give rise to what we're seeing with the German model (assuming the claims in this video are not spurious), then - well, that would certainly throw into question the potential benefits of such an approach.


So - there's gotta be a middle ground; cause let's face it - we're talking about a financially incentivized framework for bumping uglies here; not rocket science.

I'd also be curious as to see the results of the same video makers doing an evaluation of the Dutch sex trade and their contentions as to whether similar mentalities are in place there - specifically the red light district.
That would give some perspective to their claims on the German model at least.

bo0li5eumx12kp

And more specifically, this idea of "head trauma" being sustained by German workers?

Either they have some fetish related kinks they allow their clients to partake of or, something is seriously out of whack (again, is this a reflection of the German setup exclusively?)

If that was known to be happening in other cultural sex work sectors - some testicales would be getting castrated.

Better to push it all underground and criminalise it so we can pretend it isn't happening like we do here.

Women are always going to sell their bodies in one form or another - just look at Instagram for 5 minutes and then say that women don't put themselves on sale. Going after the rich successful man is the woman's version of paying for sex. The price of a realtionship or marriage for a man is just far higher. This isn't to say there aren't any loving healthy relationships of equals, but many aren't like that at all.

I wouldn't be in favour of mega brothels but a model where women who want to be sex workers can get a self employed licence and easily report any abuse etc would be better for everyone involved. It's probaby one of the most honest forms of work there are where neither party is in any doubt of the others intentions.

I automatically disregard any videos that are trying to elicit an emotional reaction - they are without exception dishonest.

Gynoid

Aniya Careful Styrofoam wrote: »

And more specifically, this idea of "head trauma" being sustained by German workers?

Either they have some fetish related kinks they allow their clients to partake of or, something is seriously out of whack (again, is this a reflection of the German setup exclusively?)

If that was known to be happening in other cultural sex work sectors - some testicales would be getting castrated.

The head trauma report is US based. Just left it there for consideration.

Im not getting involved in this debate, I want to have a nice day

Austria!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

the vast majority of prostitutes don’t have a huge online presence because they don’t have access to social media

Back this up

One eyed Jack

Austria! wrote: »

Back this up

Bother me arse tbh, better things to be doing on a Sunday morning than entertaining nonsense :rolleyes:

bo0li5eumx12kp

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Bother me arse tbh, better things to be doing on a Sunday morning than entertaining nonsense :rolleyes:

Your statement as to absence in online communities and basically not having their fingers on the pulse, is intentionally ignorant, presumptive, or misinformed.

It's like saying chicks now a days don't use an iphone, or have a facebook profile, an instagram account etc.

Hell the entire registration process in Ireland is done via submission of an online profile and membership of an online community is compulsory.

Plus have you never heard the expression, "chicks talk to each other".

normanoffside

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Most adults refer to them as "women".

Forget his British and Irish passport, he self identifies as a 1980s American Frat boy

Have only listened to about 20 minutes but this is a seriously impressive young woman.

https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-portal/21-ashley-mathews-aka-riley-reid-the-mogul-and-bra/

dotsman

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What hatred of women are you talking about?

I'm not sure, but the tone of your posts seem to indicate that you don't like these people and believe you are superior to them etc.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And no, a lot of prostitutes (both men and women), don’t have a huge online presence, that’s the point I was making - the vast majority of prostitutes don’t have a huge online presence because they don’t have access to social media or lobby groups to tell anyone how shìt it is. I didn’t say anything about their intellect.

But why don't they have access to social media? Are you insinuating that ISP's and mobile phone provider's spy on us to see what we work as, and if a customer happens to work in prostitution that the ISP/Mobile Phone Provider terminates the contract and denies them service???

I really don't understand what you are saying here!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Bother me arse tbh, better things to be doing on a Sunday morning than entertaining nonsense :rolleyes:

But, you are making a ridiculous claim that nobody here understands. I think you pretty much need to back up the claim (or at least explain the logic that you use to come up with your theory; otherwise, it just makes your posts look very stupid).

biko

jaxxx wrote: »

Here we go again. How about this time instead of reading/listening to those with little insight into the whole thing, you ask someone who with lots. The sex workers themselves perhaps. Wait, no, that makes sense. We don't want to be doing things that make sense now in this day and age!

I don't know any sex workers so cannot ask.
I tend to trust organisations for trafficked women, like Ruhama
If you have some extra cash I suggest donating some of it to them www.ruhama.ie/donate

The happy hooker is a myth perpetrated by customers that don't want to burden themselves with the sad life of the person they are "having sex" with.

No. Zero attraction for me. I can't imagine paying for sex, it would take the attraction out of it. When I was single, it was the chase that was exciting. To put in fishing parlance (although I don't fish ) a fisherman wouldn't get any satisfaction fishing in a barrel.

I've walked past the red light district in Amsterdam, and there's some pretty women in the windows, but never had a twitch of desire. They possibly make a lot more money than me, but I felt sorry for them.

With that said, I very much wish Ireland would make prostitution legal so it could be policed, with regular health checks for the workers. Oh, and taxed It would be a lot safer for them. We've come a long way from Dev's Ireland, and we should legislate for this.

jaxxx

biko wrote: »

I don't know any sex workers so cannot ask.
I tend to trust organisations for trafficked women, like Ruhama
If you have some extra cash I suggest donating some of it to them www.ruhama.ie/donate

The happy hooker is a myth perpetrated by customers that don't want to burden themselves with the sad life of the person they are "having sex" with.

So you're aware then that Ruhama are run by the same people behind the Magdalene laundries?

"Don't know sex workers so can't ask". Fair enough, but then why do you automatically believe everything Ruhama say then? Accepting only one side of the argument without even doing any sort of research into the other side? If you want actual facts, I suggest you read up on the Sex Workers Alliance Ireland, plenty of videos out there on Youtube. I would have expected a much more impartial approach from one of Boards' lead moderators.

One eyed Jack

dotsman wrote: »

I'm not sure, but the tone of your posts seem to indicate that you don't like these people and believe you are superior to them etc.

I certainly consider myself superior to anyone campaigning for prostitution to be decriminalised, legalised, etc. The point jaxxx was making is that politicians and legislators should ask the opinions of prostitutes in regard to the issue of prostitution, as opposed to listening to special interest lobby groups.

As though there aren’t special interest lobby groups campaigning for prostitution in Ireland. There are, and they have a lot more access to social media to promote their particular point of view than the vast majority of prostitutes who don’t have access to social media, let alone the ability to communicate their point that it’s ****.

All of that is distinct from the fact that I disagree completely with the nonsense notion that prostitutes should be asked for their opinions in regard to prostitution. They’re two distinct concepts - prostitution as an issue, is a separate issue from the people who engage in it.

dotsman wrote: »

But why don't they have access to social media? Are you insinuating that ISP's and mobile phone provider's spy on us to see what we work as, and if a customer happens to work in prostitution that the ISP/Mobile Phone Provider terminates the contract and denies them service???

I really don't understand what you are saying here!

Let’s be honest, you’re not trying very hard to understand what I’m saying either. I’m saying that the vast majority of prostitutes don’t have the same access to social media and lobby groups as the small minority of prostitutes who campaign in favour of prostitution.

dotsman wrote: »

But, you are making a ridiculous claim that nobody here understands. I think you pretty much need to back up the claim (or at least explain the logic that you use to come up with your theory; otherwise, it just makes your posts look very stupid).

I think you understood perfectly well what I meant, but if you want to behave like a simpleton, that’s really not something I care to entertain. I’m doing you a courtesy by explaining what I meant, but I have no real interest in indulging nonsense.

One eyed Jack

jaxxx wrote: »

So you're aware then that Ruhama are run by the same people behind the Magdalene laundries?

"Don't know sex workers so can't ask". Fair enough, but then why do you automatically believe everything Ruhama say then? Accepting only one side of the argument without even doing any sort of research into the other side? If you want actual facts, I suggest you read up on the Sex Workers Alliance Ireland, plenty of videos out there on Youtube. I would have expected a much more impartial approach from one of Boards' lead moderators.

There’s nothing factual about SWAI, they’re just another small lobby group trying to portray themselves as a legitimate organisation :pac:

Pauliedragon

biko wrote: »

I don't know any sex workers so cannot ask.
I tend to trust organisations for trafficked women, like Ruhama
If you have some extra cash I suggest donating some of it to them www.ruhama.ie/donate

The happy hooker is a myth perpetrated by customers that don't want to burden themselves with the sad life of the person they are "having sex" with.

I've worked with women in the past who worked casually as sex workers and they were happy to do it. None were forced they just saw it as decent money for a short time of their lives which meant they could set themselves up financially.

dotsman

biko wrote: »

I don't know any sex workers so cannot ask.
I tend to trust organisations for trafficked women, like Ruhama
If you have some extra cash I suggest donating some of it to them www.ruhama.ie/donate

The happy hooker is a myth perpetrated by customers that don't want to burden themselves with the sad life of the person they are "having sex" with.

Ruhama???

RUHAMA????

RU-FCUKIN_HAMA???

You support and encourage others to support one of the most evil and vile organisations this country has ever had (I'm talking about them being up there with the IR-fcukin-A). Do you support the enslavement of women for having sex before marriage? The sale or manslaughter of infants? The refusal to pay any compensation to their countless victims? Do you hate women who work in prostitution?

WTF makes you think this vile right-wing extremest organisation helps "trafficked women"? They absolutely detest the women who work in prostitution, with their manifesto being to make prostitution as horrible as possible in order to deter women from entering it.

If there was a government in this country with both balls and a brain, they would dispatch the defence forces to crush this organisation - shoot-to-kill. Instead, we give them taxpayers money so they can use this money to persecute sex workers, keep the propaganda flowing, and target any TD who steps out of line.

We also force sex workers to give them money as well. When a sex worker is brought before the courts, humiliated and made to beg for forgiveness for their wicked ways, the typical punishments is for her to give all her money to Ruhama.

monty_python

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I've worked with women in the past who worked casually as sex workers and they were happy to do it. None were forced they just saw it as decent money for a short time of their lives which meant they could set themselves up financially.

And they freely admitted that to you?

jaxxx

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There’s nothing factual about SWAI, they’re just another small lobby group trying to portray themselves as a legitimate organisation :pac:

Ignorant as ever I see.


Absolutely right, why trust an organisation run by sex workers trying to make things safer for sex workers. An organisation that receives no money from the government I might add, unlike Ruhama.



Give me strength.. ..

jaxxx

jaxxx wrote: »

Ignorant as ever I see.


Absolutely right, why trust an organisation run by sex workers trying to make things safer for sex workers. An organisation that receives no money from the government I might add, unlike Ruhama.



Give me strength.. ..

To put in context, If memory serves, One Eyed Jack is proud of his very conservative religious beliefs. Might be why he defends a religious organisation.

Pauliedragon

monty_python wrote: »

And they freely admitted that to you?

Yes they did. They were working with as topless bartenders and they had no qualms about admitting that they ventured into escorting which is legal and fully regulated. Not every country sees sex as some sordid backyard human trafficking industry.

Andrew00

Why on earth would u want to ride a sex worker

bo0li5eumx12kp

Deleted User wrote: »

Have only listened to about 20 minutes but this is a seriously impressive young woman.

https://podtail.com/en/podcast/the-portal/21-ashley-mathews-aka-riley-reid-the-mogul-and-bra/

lol, really?

Riley Reid is egg, through and through.

"Uhhh, I like Sam Harris, cause he talks about psychedelics.... and the brain.... and magic mushrooms...... - ........... I like those.....".

Weinstein is the prototype of an intellectual man who struggles to get laid, so creates this glorified image in his own mind (he actually compares porn actresses to top level researchers and entrepreneurs in this interview), where the reality is nothing of the sort.

Don't get me wrong, Reid is a hot little minx, but there's little question in my mind Weinstein did this interview in desperate hope of bedding her down at some point.

Reid also does sex work on the side out of several LA clubs, as most porn actresses do.

One eyed Jack

Deleted User wrote: »

To put in context, If memory serves, One Eyed Jack is proud of his very conservative religious beliefs. Might be why he defends a religious organisation.

Your memory serves you well, sort of

Basically, I didn't defend Ruhuma in this thread, but if it's context you're looking for -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The likes of Ruhuma though and many of these lobby groups and organisations on either side of the discussion though can fcuk right off as far as I'm concerned, because as you quite rightly point out - if you don't fit their specific profile, they have no interest in your opinion and even less interest in offering you any support. I'd say the same about SWA Ireland too btw.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Seriously though, Ruhuma are a bunch of utterly useless fcuknuts, I wouldn't encourage anyone to go near them. I find them a detestable organisation and if you don't fit their "victim profile", they have no interest in so much as even talking to you.

If one of the consequences of implementing the Swedish model is that it puts organisations like Ruhuma and the Immigrant Council of Ireland out of business, then that'll be no bad thing IMO.

You'd swear it was only Ruhuma were opposed to prostitution in Ireland. Off the top of my head, at last count there were about 80 different organisations opposed to prostitution in Ireland, and Ruhuma were the only one there was any sniff of religion from. The rest were all manner of women's and immigrants rights and welfare organisations.

nozzferrahhtoo

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I certainly consider myself superior to anyone campaigning for prostitution to be decriminalised, legalised, etc.

Yet simply declaring yourself to be superior does not make it so. Quite the opposite I would say. If the best support for your position is just to talk about how great YOU think that position is.... then you have no argument. In the past your anti-sex work stance has seemingly been made up of nothing but merely declaring it to be abuse.

I can see nothing at all, least of all from you, indicting sex work in and of itself. And I see no arguments for why it should be illegal or criminal. So as a big believer in "innocent until proven guilty" I am more than happy to campaign for it to be legal and regulated. And to use those regulations and other tools to better the lives of the people actually doing that work.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The point jaxxx was making is that politicians and legislators should ask the opinions of prostitutes in regard to the issue of prostitution, as opposed to listening to special interest lobby groups.

I would suggest doing both myself. I see no reason at all for it to be at all either/or. If you want to know what is going on in a particular industry then the people actually working in it are likely to be a great source of information. Especially if they are polled in an anonymous and unbiased fashion. Just screaming "Nonsense" at the idea of communicating with them does not magically make it nonsense.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m saying that the vast majority of prostitutes don’t have the same access to social media and lobby groups as the small minority of prostitutes who campaign in favour of prostitution.

I was not aware that a study has been done on the social media use of sex workers. You seem to have some data on the subject however. Care to cite it for us? I mean it would not be that you actually have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what their internet usage actually is, and you are simply making stuff up on the spot to suit yourself?

Feisar

Some things money can’t buy