Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2019/2020

Agent Coulson

James Pearce confirms Werner won't be joining Liverpool.

Utopia Parkway

Disappointing as he's pretty much the only player we've been strongly linked with over the past 6 months. I'd love Sancho but if we're not paying Werner we're definitely not paying for Sancho.

Will have to come up with something else.

ricero

Disgusted with this to be honest. Think the club are counting their pennies again.

Think we will regret this big time.

5starpool

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Disappointing as he's pretty much the only player we've been strongly linked with over the past 6 months. I'd love Sancho but if we're not paying Werner we're definitely not paying for Sancho.

Will have to come up with something else.

Cantwell here we come!

PrettyBoy

Jesus Christ, what was the concern about money? He would've been a bargain. A young, world class player that's yet to hit his prime begging to play for Liverpool and Klopp. This will prove to be a major fuck up.

ricero

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Jesus Christ, what was the concern about money? He would've been a bargain. A young, world class player that's yet to hit his prime begging to play for Liverpool and Klopp. This will prove to be a major fuck up.

Should be no excuses about finances here. We have spent virtually nothing in the past 18 months.

First the furloughing of staff and now this from the owners whiffs of penny pinching.

We wont last long back on our perch with this mindset.

5starpool

ricero wrote: »

Should be no excuses about finances here. We have spent virtually nothing in the past 18 months.

First the furloughing of staff and now this from the owners whiffs of penny pinching.

We wont last long back on our perch with this mindset.

How long ago was it you said you'd never complain about them again?

ricero

5starpool wrote: »

How long ago was it you said you'd never complain about them again?

It reeks of trying to save face and good pr from me 5star. In a year when they tried to furlough staff I reckon they think it looks bad to spend 50 million euro on a striker.

Its trying to keep the FSG brand looking good in detriment to the club. They have backed the club into a corner now.

Riesen_Meal

He's a great player, oh well, he is actually just what Chelsea need scarily enough, I think Werner himself may think he won't get a start with us....

5starpool

ricero wrote: »

It reeks of trying to save face and good pr from me 5star. In a year when they tried to furlough staff I reckon they think it looks bad to spend 50 million euro on a striker.

Its trying to keep the FSG brand looking good in detriment to the club.

We don't know though. Perhaps Chelsea are being financially reckless and Liverpool are genuinely ensuring the club comes out the other side of coronavirus restrictions (whenever that is) in a much better placement than the likes of Chelsea. We don't know. I want us to spend loads of money on players too, but given where the club is now compared to before, I'm not going to complain about them.

~Rebel~

ricero wrote: »

It reeks of trying to save face and good pr from me 5star. In a year when they tried to furlough staff I reckon they think it looks bad to spend 50 million euro on a striker.

Its trying to keep the FSG brand looking good in detriment to the club.

This is a serious stretch in logic. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Given their track record over the past few years, they’ve earned the benefit of the doubt.

martyos121

Fieldog wrote: »

He's a great player, oh well, he is actually just what Chelsea need scarily enough, I think Werner himself may think he won't get a start with us....

Yeah, he really looks like a player that ticks every box for Lampard and his style of football. Pace is king in the Premier League and I could see him putting away 20-25 in his first season alone.

I understand the club not wanting to spend in this climate, but we invested nothing last summer and we were absolutely due a decent signing or two this year. I’ll be upset if we don’t get one but we will 100% still be challenging for the major honours next season regardless. Nearly all of our best players are still in their prime years, only Milner has noticeably slowed down.

Speak Now

Everton Sunday 21st at 7 p.m. is surely a neutral venue if that time is true.

ricero

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This is a serious stretch in logic. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Given their track record over the past few years, they’ve earned the benefit of the doubt.

We shall await and see I suppose but I will be shocked now if we make any big signings now.

Perhaps the loan with option to buy for Dembele will be as lavish as it gets this summer even with the mega bucks Nike deal signed and kicking in.

Just hope its not a summer of our rivals strengthening while we stand still.

Agent Coulson

Roman is funding it out of his own pocket by the sounds of it.

As we said
@mirrorfootball
weeks ago, always consistent stance from #LFC on Werner - release clause fee crazy in light of current financial crisis swamping football. Chelsea encouraged by that stance, and seemingly, owner unworried by huge Covid19-related losses...or FFP issue

https://twitter.com/MaddockMirror/status/1268611089530380291?s=20

Riesen_Meal

martyos121 wrote: »

Yeah, he really looks like a player that ticks every box for Lampard and his style of football. Pace is king in the Premier League and I could see him putting away 20-25 in his first season alone.

I understand the club not wanting to spend in this climate, but we invested nothing last summer and we were absolutely due a decent signing or two this year. I’ll be upset if we don’t get one but we will 100% still be challenging for the major honours next season regardless. Nearly all of our best players are still in their prime years, only Milner has noticeably slowed down.

Yeah he's definitely the real deal, and he could be the difference for Chelsea next season, things will fall into place for them I would say, especially now, he will be guaranteed starter for them and straight into the team...

Yeah I think all we will see this season is a few fringe signings and the a few contract extensions...

Still though, we could never compete with that kind of money being touted, as that's apparently Salah wages he is starting on...

Agent Coulson

Minamino, Origi, Jones, Elliott and maybe Brewster will be getting more game time next season so.

ERG89

ricero wrote: »

We shall await and see I suppose but I will be shocked now if we make any big signings now.

Perhaps the loan with option to buy for Dembele will be as lavish as it gets this summer even with the mega bucks Nike deal signed and kicking in.

Just hope its not a summer of our rivals strengthening while we stand still.

I don't want a player like Dembele coming in who has basically done nothing productive on a football pitch the last 2 years. If you are in a position Liverpool have been for the past 3 years its not really consistent with how the club got to where they are by taking a punt on a player who's professionalism has been called into question.

I'm less concerned about losing out on a player than I am about the talk about the finances not being there for a deal like this. I'm not expecting an Mbappe level signing coming in but if it's someone like Todd Cantwell what competition is he going to offer a league winning side??

Vicxas

Apparently Chelsea have a agreed a deal in Principle for Werner.

Mad money to be spent with no fans in seats for the foreseeable future.

Match day income for Liverpool is £85m+. Spending will be down for us and many others. That's a certainty.

Remember, we'll be lifting the league soon lads. We used to be the ones with only transfer rumours to get excited about this time of the year:)

noodler

I don't understand the club sometimes.

magma69

ricero wrote: »

Disgusted with this to be honest. Think the club are counting their pennies again.

Think we will regret this big time.

That's kinda how FSG have always been in fairness. Our net spend since they've taken over has been roughly 600 million less than Man City, 450 million less than Man U and 100 million less than Chelsea.

Basing them numbers off this link which is a few months old so the numbers might be a little off but regardless my point still stands.

Management's MO is to primarily look for bargains, young talent etc with the odd big money signing and hope scouting staff continue to do the phenomenal job they've done since Klopp came in. Who knows how it will work in the long run but you can't really fault them as it's been delivering in recent times.

noodler

magma69 wrote: »

That's kinda how FSG have always been in fairness. Our net spend since they've taken over has been roughly 600 million less than Man City, 450 million less than Man U and 100 million less than Chelsea.

Basing them numbers off this link which is a few months old so the numbers might be a little off but regardless my point still stands.

Management's MO is to primarily look for bargains, young talent etc with the odd big money signing and hope scouting staff continue to do the phenomenal job they've done since Klopp came in. Who knows how it will work in the long run but you can't really fault them as it's been delivering in recent times.

Or, maybe, we've had the most successful period in our recent history because we went out and bought big in VVD and Allison.

I'd leave the FSG ideology at the door for this one personally, what was the last six months of flirting about? We knew his transfer fee etc. I dunno.

Vicxas

Vicxas wrote: »

Anyone else gonna feel a little deflated watching us play in an empty Anfield?

Deflated me b*ll*x. I haven’t had a tipple in 3 months but i’m aware theres a bottle of port in the house. Waiting, waiting........

BillyHasMates

I don't get it tbh. He is probably the hottest young prospect in Europe atm. By all accounts Klopp was very interested in the player and had a personal chat with Werner as recently as April, which I imagine would have entailed expressing his admiration for and interest in bringing the player to the club. Werner himself has publicly expressed his admiration for Klopp and the club. His release clause fee is not overpriced I believe considering his age and obvious talent, yet we never made a genuine offer for the player? Why?

The reason being given as financial is worrying. If we did have genuine interest in the player, then waiting around sitting on our hands thinking we will get the player for a much lower price smacks of real arrogance to me. Are the club hierarchy guilty of becoming too complacent due to past successes in the transfer market? If we didn't have much interest, then are we guilty of messing the player about. I mean the player made some very public statements speaking positively about Klopp and the club. Was he led to believe we had serious interest in bringing him to the club?

2 transfer windows have passed without spending money. The player we have been linked with the most the past 6 months is on the verge of joining a rival. Being financially prudent is one thing. But football doesn't stand still. Ferguson always added a player or two each season to his league winning teams.

magma69

noodler wrote: »

Or, maybe, we've had the most successful period in our recent history because we went out and bought big in VVD and Allison.

I'd leave the FSG ideology at the door for this one personally, what was the last six months of flirting about? We knew his transfer fee etc. I dunno.

Where did the money for VVD and Allison come from? The sale of Coutinho. It's not like the club would have made them signings without that money in the bank. It was also glaringly clear those positions were crying out for big signings, Werner would be a lovely addition but not essential in the same way so I'm presuming the club decided the price being asked was above their budget.

noodler

magma69 wrote: »

Where did the money for VVD and Allison come from? The sale of Coutinho. It's not like the club would have made them signings without that money in the bank. It was also glaringly clear those positions were crying out for big signings, Werner would be a lovely addition but not essential in the same way so I'm presuming the club decided the price being asked was above their budget.

Maybe.

But as BHS said above, there is a definite sense that the club always knew the price but thought the selling club could be lowballed just because we are riding high.

Not a great stance to take.

I think we've been crying out for proper front three backup for a couple of years now in all seriousness. Ok, not a first team hole like VVD or Allison, but sorely needed nonetheless.

eigrod

Was Minamino our only 1st team signing since Summer 2018? Klopp is a genius.

~Rebel~

noodler wrote: »

Or, maybe, we've had the most successful period in our recent history because we went out and bought big in VVD and Allison.

I'd leave the FSG ideology at the door for this one personally, what was the last six months of flirting about? We knew his transfer fee etc. I dunno.

BillyHasMates wrote: »

I don't get it tbh. He is probably the hottest young prospect in Europe atm. By all accounts Klopp was very interested in the player and had a personal chat with Werner as recently as April, which I imagine would have entailed expressing his admiration for and interest in bringing the player to the club. Werner himself has publicly expressed his admiration for Klopp and the club. His release clause fee is not overpriced I believe considering his age and obvious talent, yet we never made a genuine offer for the player? Why?

The reason being given as financial is worrying. If we did have genuine interest in the player, then waiting around sitting on our hands thinking we will get the player for a much lower price smacks of real arrogance to me. Are the club hierarchy guilty of becoming too complacent due to past successes in the transfer market? If we didn't have much interest, then are we guilty of messing the player about. I mean the player made some very public statements speaking positively about Klopp and the club. Was he led to believe we had serious interest in bringing him to the club?

2 transfer windows have passed without spending money. The player we have been linked with the most the past 6 months is on the verge of joining a rival. Being financially prudent is one thing. But football doesn't stand still. Ferguson always added a player or two each season to his league winning teams.

I mean, earning zero from matchday revenue for the forseeable future - and almost certainly for the next 12 months at the very least - obviously plays a big part. One of the best things about FSG for us has been making us a club that stands on its own two feet, entirely self sufficient. In light of this, the "we knew the price for months" argument doesn't hold any water. The price stayed the same, while the circumstances of the world around it have changed, particularly our projected earnings.

The downside of the club being a properly run, self sufficient entity is that when these things happen, the club has to deal with it like an actual business - unlike Chelsea in this instance as it seems Abramovic is personally guaranteeing the funds. Even if it means we miss out on things like this, I'd rather Liverpool did things the way they are, which means being conscious and thoughtful in their decision making. Maybe they're being overly cautious, but given how unstable the financial world is right now, it's the safer way for a club to behave - especially one that almost went to the wall only a decade ago.

Fitz*

We could be looking at a scenario of asking the same set of players to go to the well for a 3rd season in a row, with only one proper addition to the squad (Minamino) and one back up goalkeeper on a free transfer.

Agent Coulson

The club aren't going to get the fees they would have expected for Shaq, Lovren & Wilson which following the history of the club to sell to buy would have probably covered the Werner fee.

magma69

I'd love to see Werner in a Liverpool shirt, all I'm saying is it's not a massive eyebrow raiser that the club would pass on a player if they felt it was too expensive. They've always operated within firm parameters.

Blondie919

magma69 wrote: »

Where did the money for VVD and Allison come from? The sale of Coutinho. It's not like the club would have made them signings without that money in the bank. It was also glaringly clear those positions were crying out for big signings, Werner would be a lovely addition but not essential in the same way so I'm presuming the club decided the price being asked was above their budget.

As sad as it is to hear that we may not get him I do have to agree with the part I bolded above. He isn't really essential right now. We currently have the widely recognised most fear-inducing front 3 in Europe, if not the world. We are not short for goals. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see him in Liverpool red but if we don't buy him then it's not the end of the world. I have faith in how our club is being run.

magma69

eigrod wrote: »

Was Minamino our only 1st team signing since Summer 2018? Klopp is a genius.

It's absolutely insane what he's done. Mind bogglingly great manager.

noodler

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, earning zero from matchday revenue for the forseeable future - and almost certainly for the next 12 months at the very least - obviously plays a big part. One of the best things about FSG for us has been making us a club that stands on its own two feet, entirely self sufficient.

The downside of that is when these things happen, the club has to deal with it like an actual business, unlike Chelsea in this instance as it seems Abramovic is personally guaranteeing the funds. Even if it means we miss out on things like this, I'd rather Liverpool did things the way they are, which means being conscious and thoughtful in their decision making. Maybe they're being overly cautious, but given how unstable the financial world is right now, it's the safer way for a club to behave - especially that almost went to the wall only a decade ago.

What would match day revenue be as a percentage of total revenue?

Not being factitious but it's probably as low as 10% there days with sponsorship and Sky money? Maybe less?

If anything, I'd have thought the fact English football looks like it is recovering from the pandemic ahead of schedule would have slightly encouraged the owners.

(And the chances of a clean title win and associated prize money looks likely to have increased in recent weeks).

Fair enough point for discussion though obviously.


On the price being the same, well there has been media speculation in recent days that we wanted to pay less than the clause. Speculation etc but it seems they were willing to pay 40m but not 50m? Small enough margins IF the case.

noodler

magma69 wrote: »

It's absolutely insane what he's done. Mind bogglingly great manager.

Allison?

eigrod

noodler wrote: »

Allison?

Summer 2018 with Fabinho. Only Minamino since as far as I can tell.

mosstin

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I mean, earning zero from matchday revenue for the forseeable future - and almost certainly for the next 12 months at the very least - obviously plays a big part. One of the best things about FSG for us has been making us a club that stands on its own two feet, entirely self sufficient. In light of this, the "we knew the price for months" argument doesn't hold any water. The price stayed the same, while the circumstances of the world around it have changed, particularly our projected earnings.

The downside of the club being a properly run, self sufficient entity is that when these things happen, the club has to deal with it like an actual business - unlike Chelsea in this instance as it seems Abramovic is personally guaranteeing the funds. Even if it means we miss out on things like this, I'd rather Liverpool did things the way they are, which means being conscious and thoughtful in their decision making. Maybe they're being overly cautious, but given how unstable the financial world is right now, it's the safer way for a club to behave - especially one that almost went to the wall only a decade ago.

This is pretty much how I see it. Spurs just announced today that they're taking out a £175 million loan from the Bank of England to get them through the Coronavirus period. This is the new reality, nothing is certain from a financial point of view and I imagine clubs are **** scared.

We're the best run club in the PL on and off the pitch so cut them a little slack here, eh? This penny-pinching nonsense has begun again in spite of the fact that we've built out best squad in decades, possibly ever - please, don't @netspend me. If we truly wanted Werner, we'd have gone out and got him, I have no doubt about that. It still surprises me - though it shouldn't - how quickly people want to paint the whole town negative.

ShamoBuc

Disappointing not to get him. He would have been a huge asset. Surely the initial cost would not have been the issue, wages perhaps in some way. Maybe he knew he would get way more game time at Chelsea - which he clearly will. Hopeful Klopp will unearth a gem or two from somewhere.

mosstin

FitzShane wrote: »

We could be looking at a scenario of asking the same set of players to go to the well for a 3rd season in a row, with only one proper addition to the squad (Minamino) and one back up goalkeeper on a free transfer.

Jesus wept, the season's not even over. There is no official transfer window to actually open yet. Go out for a walk, talk to the dog, bring your wife for a walk. Do something!

Agent Coulson

Don't forget all the main squad members bar Gini also signed long term extensions to their contracts with huge increases in wages over the last season that is a huge outlay with a decreased income coming in for this season and more than likely next season as well.

~Rebel~

noodler wrote: »

What would match day revenue be as a percentage of total revenue?

Not being factitious but it's probably as low as 10% there days with sponsorship and Sky money? Maybe less?

If anything, I'd have thought the fact English football looks like it is recovering from the pandemic ahead of schedule would have slightly encouraged the owners.

(And the chances of a clean title win and associated prize money looks likely to have increased in recent weeks).

Fair enough point for discussion though obviously.

Are you willing to bet the future of the club on the British governments handling of this, and subsequent waves of the virus?

There's a best case scenario where the virus goes away, and 12 months from now fans return and everything is wonderful and we'll discover that we could have afforded him after all.

But there's also a worst case scenario where the virus comes back in subsequent waves, or even as a mutated strain that causes everyone to have to go back into stringent lockdown again for god knows how long. And that this may happen several times over the next year or two years or three years. We don't know.

We're still in the middle of a pandemic lads, and while things might be starting to look up, this year so far has taught us that things can change very very fast. The club already has massive liabilities to pay out in the event of, for instance, the 20/21 season needing to be cancelled. Bringing on more at a time of high risk is perhaps not wise without a sugar daddy owner

ERG89

eigrod wrote: »

Summer 2018 with Fabinho. Only Minamino since as far as I can tell.

Does Adrian count?
He's not exactly a first team starter tho.

noodler

mosstin wrote: »

- how quickly people want to paint the whole town negative.

I think we need to be careful as a thread here.

We've just missed out on a star player, possibly over a minor £10m valuation difference, that we have been as heavily linked with than any player I can remember.

A few measured posts voicing some disappointment really doesn't warrant the above.

TitianGerm

noodler wrote: »

What would match day revenue be as a percentage of total revenue?

Not being factitious but it's probably as low as 10% there days with sponsorship and Sky money? Maybe less?

If anything, I'd have thought the fact English football looks like it is recovering from the pandemic ahead of schedule would have slightly encouraged the owners.

(And the chances of a clean title win and associated prize money looks likely to have increased in recent weeks).

Fair enough point for discussion though obviously.


On the price being the same, well there has been media speculation in recent days that we wanted to pay less than the clause. Speculation etc but it seems they were willing to pay 40m but not 50m? Small enough margins IF the case.

Premier league have to pay rebates on this seasons TV money. Out of the CL as well and no dates set to finish the current season so likely much lower pay outs. Also penalties for delaying the Nike deal. All these things on top of the lack of attendance fees.

ShamoBuc

ERG89 wrote: »

Does Adrian count?
He's not exactly a first team starter tho.

He does count. He's played a fair few games for us, important ones at that and was sorely needed at the time and still is really.

noodler

TitianGerm wrote: »

Premier league have to pay rebates on this seasons TV money. Out of the CL as well and no dates set to finish the current season so likely much lower pay outs. Also penalties for delaying the Nike deal. All these things on top of the lack of attendance fees.

And I'm tit for tatting to an extent here but we have made considerable money in recent years through transfers and success in competitions.

Maybe nobody but Chelsea will spend big this window (or as big as Chelsea just did) and this transfer will seem like an outlier.

Agent Coulson

The club has signed Minamino, Lonergan, Adrian, Elliott, van den Berg, Fabinho, Shaq & Ali since they lost the the Champions League final to Madrid in May 2018.

Total cost £135m while selling players in that time for £82m so the net spend was only £52m.

TitianGerm

noodler wrote: »

And I'm tit for tatting to an extent here but we have made considerable money in recent years through transfers and success in competitions.

Maybe nobody but Chelsea will spend big this window (or as big as Chelsea just did) and this transfer will seem like an outlier.

Chelsea and City will spend heaps of money. United will spend 80-100m (double that if they sell Pogba) but everyone else will spend very little.

Agent Coulson

Maybe the club has decided to drop interest in Werner and lump all the transfer money they have on a player like Havertz who has also been linked to Liverpool for a long while.