Thinking of Voting Sinn Fein - Should I?

Diceicle

I'm looking for some other perspectives on the pros and cons of voting Sinn Fein for a floating-voter like myself.

Politically I consider myself economically right and socially left. If we got the real Varadkar, I'd arguably be considering voting for them, but we have the poundshop-Trudeau version with action-socks, and I don't like this version.

FGs ineptitude with infrastucture projects. The Black and Tans thing. Broadband. Denis O'Brien. Charlie Flanagan - are all aspects of the FG model that I don't like.

So then there's Sinn Fein:

Pros:

• SF appears to have some good performers. Mary-Lou, Doherty, O'Broin, Cullinane, Paddy Holohan (joke).
• They would, IMO, make a definite attempt to right some of the cost-of-living / quality-of-life issues that people are concerned about - the cost of insurance, commuting/infrastructure, housing.
• Their manifesto makes indications towards a more controlled form of immigration;

  Sinn Féin does not want open borders. We believe that all states must manage migration. Every state has to have an immigration system with well-functioning rules and regulations that everyone understands and that serves the interest of the people of the country. This system must have regard to how many people are needed to meet shortfalls in the labour market and how many people can be integrated effectively with adequate support and resourcing. Where we do need migrants, such as to fill vacancies in our health system, our migration system should facilitate this.

• They would be inclined to tackle the low-rate of Corporation tax paid by some MNCs (how far they'd get though....)
• They would also be inclined to address the Vulture and Cuckoo funds and the Zero tax they pay - unlike FG who have ruled out doing anything with them.
• They're not FF or FG.

Cons:

• They're more to the Left than I'd like.
• While I'm all in favour of solving the housing solution my preferred focus would be on building truly affordable homes rather than giving a #ForevahHome to anyone who didn't have the foresight to study in school, go to college / get a career and or not have kids until you're reasonably financially secure.
• They wouldn't be the party to tackle the excess / waste in the social welfare system.
• The burden they would place on a business causes me concern though I have to read up more of the detail on this part of their manifesto.
• Their championing of Traveller rights would not be something I'm behind.

Ultimately, I think the system is in need of radical change and maybe SF is the best-worst way to get that ball rolling????

Idbatterim

infrastructure is a big one, if that is very important for you, like it is for me, far better off staying with FG, the rest already have plans to delay dublin metro again. Infrastructure is the easiest problem to solve, these plans are done, its just a matte of committing the money now! The other areas are mostly minefields, that wont be sorted, Health etc. I think FG and SF vote potentially, definitely greens. that way, we get continuation with FG, but if SF keep making ground, they will think twice about another term of nothing but waffle, like FF...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112431970&postcount=186

If your point is that he prematurely used the term "shovel ready" then you are correct but that is largely irrelevant. The main point in relation to Metrolink is that FG are the only ones nailing their colours to the mast and saying that they want to deliver the project which has been going through the necessary processes for a couple of years now. Everyone else has some caveat designed to attract votes from other areas but will delay if not derail the project. I'd be more than willing to forgive Rock the incorrect use of the term if they do actually get it to construction next year.

take a read of the below thread op...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058045884&page=13

finjoe

for the rest of us in rural ireland with post offices, shops & pubs, NO taxis or public transport - cant wait to get rid of FF & FG, I actually dont care for the arguments against SF, its time, and thankfully so, the electorate are copping on and going to give SF a chance...what has the ordinary man to loose, the powers that be will try and frighten us about the possible fleeing out of Ireland of big business if coporation tax is upped, and it should be upped, what they are not telling us though in getting these big companies in here, the politicians are being wined/dined and "looked after", both personally and their families, thats why the current anf former lot dont want any change, they are, I am convinced personally being rewarded by these companies, sure why else would any large company want to come here, low tax and low tax only.....fighting the Apple Tax is an absolute disgrace and two fingers to ordinary tax payer of this country, 13 bn being refused and the ordinary man to the pin of his/her collar???...I think that got people thinking here...its all big business with FF and FG, always has been and always will be..if you want change vote for change, dont mind the sticker of the party, give someone else a go..it cannot and will not be anyworse for ordinary people, the top boys might be affected but we will soon see how loyal they are to the Irish..if they are not, well goodbye....

Idbatterim

FFG can scaremonger all they want, none of the parties are getting within an asses roar of a majority. Given that you would have to compromise FF, FG or SF proposals. You would probably have a good middle ground, it if were a FG, SG coalition...

the scaremongering from FFg is ridciculous, SF arent getting a majority, nobody is

with regards to rural ireland and transport, allow UBER etc, simple! why the hell is this not permitted here?

Sweet.Science

SF have promised to lower the pension age back to 65(lets forget they raised it in NI for a second )

They are also scrapping the USC charge for earnings under 30k

They are building thousands of houses

Increasing childcare subsidies

Thats to name a few


Can someone tell me where they are getting the extra few billion from?

Zetor19

At this stage let them have their chance, can’t be any worse than the other shower of corrupt *****.

CatFromHue

Sinn Fein aren't to the Left, they're populist.

The building work they plan to do isn't possible, but it sounds good.
The tax cuts they plan to do isn't left wing, but it sounds good.
Their methods of raising money to pay for the above is not sustainable, but it sounds good.
They've said that their manifesto has been costed by the Dept. of Finance but it hasn't, only certain elements of it have and overall the Dept. is saying what they plan to do is dangerous, but it sounds good.

When John Delaney was before the PAC they fella in charge of the PAC nearly **** himself as Delaney had the lawyers who represented Angela Kerins. Kerins took a case, and won, against the PAC for the breaches in it's powers that Mary Lou did when she was on it.

scrumqueen

Diceicle wrote: »

Politically I consider myself economically right and socially left. If we got the real Varadkar, I'd arguably be considering voting for them, but we have the poundshop-Trudeau version with action-socks, and I don't like this version.

What do you mean here?

Diceicle wrote: »

So then there's Sinn Fein:

Cons:

• They wouldn't be the party to tackle the excess / waste in the social welfare system.

I'm pretty certain that Varadkars 'welfare cheats' initiative didn't bring in the massive returns hoped for.

scrumqueen

CatFromHue wrote: »

They've said that their manifesto has been costed by the Dept. of Finance but it hasn't, only certain elements of it have and overall the Dept. is saying what they plan to do is dangerous, but it sounds good.

It has been costed by the Dept. of Finance and the DOF don't offer up opinions of which manifesto is good or bad.

James Brown

Sweet.Science wrote: »

SF have promised to lower the pension age back to 65(lets forget they raised it in NI for a second )

They are also scrapping the USC charge for earnings under 30k

They are building thousands of houses

Increasing childcare subsidies

Thats to name a few


Can someone tell me where they are getting the extra few billion from?

Cancel any extension on the NCH? No new IW style quango? No sweet deals for Denis O'Brien? Charge vulture funds a higher tax? Stop taking out 25 year leases? Having politicians who turn up and work for their salary?
Lots of ways to save and make money.

ratracer

I think it would be the equivalent of the US voting for Donald and the UK voting for Boris and Brexit!
It might seem great in the short term, but I think it will be a disaster in the long term.
But, no matter who is in power, they will be unable to get everything right to suit everybody and so will be the bogey men/ women/ people come the next election.

Idbatterim

ratracer wrote: »

I think it would be the equivalent of the US voting for Donald and the UK voting for Boris and Brexit!
It might seem great in the short term, but I think it will be a disaster in the long term.
But, no matter who is in power, they will be unable to get everything right to suit everybody and so will be the bogey men/ women/ people come the next election.

you have a problem though then dont you? never take a risk and accept the FFG **** governance. they will have to start delivering if they think they are going to or could lose power to SF. Imagine not being able to sort their mates out, being wined and dined. the rip off housing. that would cause them many a sleepless night!

Fieldsman

OP Take my advice and DON'T In the town I live in there was more money spent in infrastructure in the last 9 years than the previous 100

machaseh

I am 100% in favour of Sinn Féin. Tiocfaidh ár lá !

Edgware

Sweet.Science wrote: »

SF have promised to lower the pension age back to 65(lets forget they raised it in NI for a second )

They are also scrapping the USC charge for earnings under 30k

They are building thousands of houses

Increasing childcare subsidies

Thats to name a few


Can someone tell me where they are getting the extra few billion from?

You actually believe election promises?
Hadn't Pat Rabbitte a quote to cover that stuff?

Loafing Oaf

Diceicle wrote: »

Politically I consider myself economically right

Can't see why you would consider voting SF then

jimgoose

You can vote for whoever you like of course, that is your privilege. In my view, SF are subversive Marxist thugs and assorted buck-toothed, jug-eared pavees good for nothing else, led by a sleeveen turncoat who's "principles" align with whatever just might get her elected.

marieholmfan

jimgoose wrote: »

You can vote for whoever you like of course, that is your privilege. In my view, SF are subversive Marxist thugs and assorted buck-toothed, jug-eared pavees good for nothing else, led by a sleeveen turncoat who's "principles" align with whatever just might get her elected.

That's your problem with her Jim. The pronoun.

car_radio19834

I have decided to vote for them as a protest vote. Even though SF won't get a seat in my area.

I know it's a risk voting for them as I work for multinational but feck it, the other bastards can't keep getting away with it.

The surge in polls for SF has tipped me to vote for them as I feel I'm not alone now.

Blazer

Sweet.Science wrote: »

SF have promised to lower the pension age back to 65(lets forget they raised it in NI for a second )

They are also scrapping the USC charge for earnings under 30k

They are building thousands of houses

Increasing childcare subsidies

Thats to name a few


Can someone tell me where they are getting the extra few billion from?

The extra 9 billion. Rob a few securior vans maybe?
Increase what they charge drug dealers ?
Sell guns ..buy one get one free.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

Sinn Fein aren't to the Left, they're populist.

The building work they plan to do isn't possible, but it sounds good.
The tax cuts they plan to do isn't left wing, but it sounds good.
Their methods of raising money to pay for the above is not sustainable, but it sounds good.
They've said that their manifesto has been costed by the Dept. of Finance but it hasn't, only certain elements of it have and overall the Dept. is saying what they plan to do is dangerous, but it sounds good.

When John Delaney was before the PAC they fella in charge of the PAC nearly **** himself as Delaney had the lawyers who represented Angela Kerins. Kerins took a case, and won, against the PAC for the breaches in it's powers that Mary Lou did when she was on it.

Absolute drivel.

Vote for them, OP. They literally (in the literal sense) cannot be worse than we've had before.

Cullinane is getting my first preference.

scrumqueen

car_radio19834 wrote: »

I have decided to vote for them as a protest vote. Even though SF won't get a seat in my area.

I know it's a risk voting for them as I work for multinational but feck it, the other bastards can't keep getting away with it.

The surge in polls for SF has tipped me to vote for them as I feel I'm not alone now.

Shur look, don't worry, once SF get into Government as a junior minority to whoever, the civil servants in charge will tell them what's what anyway!

JDigweed

Normally a FF voter but honestly I think the country needs a break from the 2 big guns. Micheal Martin was involved with FF when the country went bust, I have no confidence in him leading the country.
As for Fine Gael....Housing is broken, health is a shambles and I honestly can't remember crime in the country as bad. Completely underesourced Police force and ridiculously lenient sentencing.
I honestly think SF might view a chance in government now as possibly a once in a generation event that will focus the minds of the elected representatives.

CatFromHue

scrumqueen wrote: »

It has been costed by the Dept. of Finance and the DOF don't offer up opinions of which manifesto is good or bad.

It insists that the costs of its proposed measures have been approved by the Department of Finance.

However, the department clarified that it did not cost the totality of the Sinn Féin package but rather it costed individual items and there was stinging criticism of the party’s spending plans.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/economist-sinn-feins-22bn-spending-plan-dangerous-978371.html

Not according to The Examiner

olestoepoke

jimgoose wrote: »

You can vote for whoever you like of course, that is your privilege. In my view, SF are subversive Marxist thugs and assorted buck-toothed, jug-eared pavees good for nothing else, led by a sleeveen turncoat who's "principles" align with whatever just might get her elected.

Don't hold back say what you feel. lol.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Cancel any extension on the NCH?

So the children's hospital won't be finished then, which means no children's hospital, so terrible conditions in Crumlin and Temple Street for our children will continue, thanks to Sinn Fein.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No new IW style quango?

Nobody else is promising a new quango, so how will this save money?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No sweet deals for Denis O'Brien?

Again, in what way will money be saved? Will they be cancelling the NBP as you think that is also for Denis O'Brien? Along with refusing to finish the Children's Hospital, that will also go down well.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Charge vulture funds a higher tax?

How? They have been caught out already on silly promises about making banks pay tax, how will this work?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Stop taking out 25 year leases?

If the leases have been taken out already, then they have to be paid. If you stop taking them out, and you have nowhere to put people, then those people will have to live sleeping out on the streets. I didn't realise this was SF policy until you pointed it out.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Having politicians who turn up and work for their salary?
Lots of ways to save and make money.

Will that save €1 or €1.50?

All of your ideas are nonsense, don't save money, or will ensure that ordinary people are worse off. I certainly hope you are not writing Sinn Fein's plans, though wait, having read them..............

christy c

Zetor19 wrote: »

can’t be any worse than the other shower of corrupt *****.

This nonsense still being thrown around. For this to be true, Ireland would have to be the worst off nation on earth, or at least the worst off developed nation. I doubt even idiots like Pearse Doherty believe that.

I could never vote for political terrorists, which is why I’ll never vote FG/FF.

Diceicle

finjoe wrote: »

for the rest of us in rural ireland with post offices, shops & pubs, NO taxis or public transport - cant wait to get rid of FF & FG, I actually dont care for the arguments against SF, its time, and thankfully so, the electorate are copping on and going to give SF a chance...what has the ordinary man to loose, the powers that be will try and frighten us about the possible fleeing out of Ireland of big business if coporation tax is upped, and it should be upped, what they are not telling us though in getting these big companies in here, the politicians are being wined/dined and "looked after", both personally and their families, thats why the current anf former lot dont want any change, they are, I am convinced personally being rewarded by these companies, sure why else would any large company want to come here, low tax and low tax only.....fighting the Apple Tax is an absolute disgrace and two fingers to ordinary tax payer of this country, 13 bn being refused and the ordinary man to the pin of his/her collar???...I think that got people thinking here...its all big business with FF and FG, always has been and always will be..if you want change vote for change, dont mind the sticker of the party, give someone else a go..it cannot and will not be anyworse for ordinary people, the top boys might be affected but we will soon see how loyal they are to the Irish..if they are not, well goodbye....

Some of the tax stuff (deals for the MNC, fighting the Apple 13bn) I can understand on a pragmatic level. What gets me about the FG strategy - as it appears to my layman eyes - is that they don't seem to be able to shore up, or create a positive environment for domestic start-ups (in and out of tech).
We're left with a situation where the local coffee shop pays their share in tax, rates etc but Starbucks pays a pitttence. That just seems unjustifiable to me, even with their volume of employees here.

mada999

CatFromHue wrote: »

Sinn Fein aren't to the Left, they're populist.

The building work they plan to do isn't possible, but it sounds good.
The tax cuts they plan to do isn't left wing, but it sounds good.
Their methods of raising money to pay for the above is not sustainable, but it sounds good.
They've said that their manifesto has been costed by the Dept. of Finance but it hasn't, only certain elements of it have and overall the Dept. is saying what they plan to do is dangerous, but it sounds good.

When John Delaney was before the PAC they fella in charge of the PAC nearly **** himself as Delaney had the lawyers who represented Angela Kerins. Kerins took a case, and won, against the PAC for the breaches in it's powers that Mary Lou did when she was on it.

Do you think FG were populist in 2007 ?

Persiancowboy

Sweet.Science wrote: »

SF have promised to lower the pension age back to 65(lets forget they raised it in NI for a second )

They are also scrapping the USC charge for earnings under 30k

They are building thousands of houses

Increasing childcare subsidies

Thats to name a few


Can someone tell me where they are getting the extra few billion from?

They probably still have a good bit of the proceeds from the Northern Bank robbery in Belfast of a few years ago.....