Thinking of Voting Sinn Fein - Should I?

maccored

anyone see the Dobson interview on facebook? The comments say it all - seems like a complete win for SF even though Dobson was an ignorant ****e who never let her finish a sentence.

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/555060828685401/

The Rape of Lucretia

Trizo wrote: »

Lot of people round these parts purporting not to support SF but I have my suspicions !

There is a consistent pattern of message in the last few weeks pushing a line of 'Im not a SF voter and havent voted for them before, but by jingo, I think I will this time'. Its trying to normalise voting for SF. Project an image that a reasonable person could actually choose SF. Trying to portray SF as as viable an option as Lab/FF/FG/GR or what ever local opportunist or crackpot independent you have, and not an unvotable relic from a guntoting past.

The Rape of Lucretia

olestoepoke wrote: »

No thanks

Who then?

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Jesus man 2 days ago you were voting FG, yesterday it was the greens, today its SF!!!

Are you actually OK?

Seriously WTF!!

Oh I’m one hundred percent giving th greens a vote. The total disregard for the environment here is a disgrace. My bigger predicament is fg / sf. I’m not going to be lied to by varadkar etc again , give them five more years for health , housing etc to get worse? They had nearly a decade and a boom , they did nothing but take the populist easy choices every turn. I elected them to govern. Not seek consensus from every time , such , harry and their dog

maccored

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There is a consistent pattern of message in the last few weeks pushing a line of 'Im not a SF voter and havent voted for them before, but by jingo, I think I will this time'. Its trying to normalise voting for SF. Project an image that a reasonable person could actually choose SF. Trying to portray SF as as viable an option as Lab/FF/FG/GR or what ever local opportunist or crackpot independent you have, and not an unvotable relic from a guntoting past.

does that not say people who havent voted sf might do so this time?

Oh aye - sure thats what youre afraid of. This oul democracy thing ... not your cup of tea at all.

anewme

maccored wrote: »

anyone see the Dobson interview on facebook? The comments say it all - seems like a complete win for SF even though Dobson was an ignorant ****e who never let her finish a sentence.

https://www.facebook.com/rtenews/videos/555060828685401/

Those comments dont say anything. Apart from they are from a pro SF Facebook slant.

What is the page they are from?

Idbatterim

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

But you see, this is the kind of nonsense that has the Irish poorly governened. They vote poorly, and against their own interest, because they are distracted by the peripheral. Getting hung up on not voting for a party becuase of stuff like Verona Murphy, Swingate, or being photographed with Kylie, is being distracted by the totally irrelevant.
Your opening statement may be true, or at least a perspective, but no point shooting yourself in the foot just because you stubbed your toe. Vote for the best on offer, not to exact revenge for past disappointments, only to make matters even worse. The Germans thought they would try the Nazis because at least the were a change from the old parties that had been in power through years of recession and hyperinflation. And it didnt turn out well to go for the 'at least theyre something different, give them a chance' option.

I hear the point you are making. It’s something I was mulling over. I’m not saying it is an easy decision. I’m aware of what you say about shooting your self in the foot. But you can’t just forever live in fear ! My opinion is , this farce has just gone on too long at this stage. It’s gone beyond what anyone can deem acceptable. It thar spineless rat varadkar had actually done more to reward workers, I’d vote for them. All he cares about is popularity and perception. I’ve a serious issue with endless welfare increases he stood over , when other areas are far more worthy and desperate for funding ! They might not be as attractive for vote winning though. The chickens have come home to roostv

Finty Lemon

Thread clearly started by a SF sleeper but if you need an answer

The oath: The organisation claims and expects your total allegiance without reservation. It enters into every aspect of your life. It invades the privacy of your home life, it fragments your family and friends, in other words claims your total allegiance...."
Too many oath bound members of the party dedicated to subverting the state. This should be enough of a reason to think again. Queue the 'tin hat' shutdowns...

Rule by Belfast HQ: SF is fundamentally non-democratic. The recent history of defections at local level bear this out. Many recently joined idealistic but naïve members were bullied out of the party and supplanted by sleeper candidates. Orchestrated by HQ in Belfast.

Left Wing pretenders: The notion that SF are left wing is nonsense. It was abandoned by the Provisional movement and now resides in the Labour party, inherited through Frank Ross and DL. Populism is the driver of policy.

Funding: Dodgy to say the least including big contributions from mysterious millionaires

Quality of candidates: The lack of real world experience is troubling. How many SF candidates have a track record in private enterprise, or public service at a high level? Most are relying on political donations and public money for funding. I mean, when you are wheeling out Pearse Doherty and OBroin as the heavyweights you are in trouble.

Lack of clarity on criminality: Paul Quinn, Tom Oliver, Robert McCartney, Gerry McCabe. And Denis Donaldson, one of their own. Just a few, you can fill in the rest yourself

Manifesto: The sums don't add up. Taxing the ****e out of the drivers of the economy will still not pay for the giveaway promises. Not to mention the risk of reduced overall tax take.

Track record in representation: The worst ghettos in the UK are SF strongholds. Can't all be Westminster's fault, can it? Keep them poor, keep them loyal.

Lack of support for Good Friday agreement: The principles of consent, and changes to territorial claims over NI, have never been honoured. Crises are routinely invented to destabilize the society. The biggest SF fear is a functioning Stormont.

Weaponising the Irish language: Plenty of sincere cultural nationalists are hoodwinked by this. Our culture should not be abused in the way it has been.

Appropriation of causes: There wasn't a word from SF about marriage equality or 8th amendement until they smelled an opportunity to appeal to the 'right on' voter. For a party that has questions to answer on harbouring child abusers, its insistence on social justice is strange.

More tomorrow

The Rape of Lucretia

Idbatterim wrote: »

Oh I’m one hundred percent giving th greens a vote. The total disregard for the environment here is a disgrace.

Thats a sensible choice. Fortunately, 75% of Ireland is pretty much accurately represented by GR/FF/FG/Lab. They are politically identical with minute spins in emphasis, slogans, and colour schemes. It allows people to choose, without having to change their politics. As you are doing. Which shows how well our PR-STV system does work.

maccored

anewme wrote: »

Those comments dont say anything. Apart from they are from a pro SF Facebook slant.

What is the page they are from?

you really really didnt read my post did you?

Try the link IN MY POST and then have a look at the comments.

Are you really what a FF or FG voter is like? Its no wonder we get the government we have.

maccored

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Thread clearly started by a SF sleeper but if you need an answer

The oath: The organisation claims and expects your total allegiance without reservation. It enters into every aspect of your life. It invades the privacy of your home life, it fragments your family and friends, in other words claims your total allegiance...."
Too many oath bound members of the party dedicated to subverting the state. This should be enough of a reason to think again. Queue the 'tin hat' shutdowns...

Rule by Belfast HQ: SF is fundamentally non-democratic. The recent history of defections at local level bear this out. Many recently joined idealistic but naïve members were bullied out of the party and supplanted by sleeper candidates. Orchestrated by HQ in Belfast.

Left Wing pretenders: The notion that SF are left wing is nonsense. It was abandoned by the Provisional movement and now resides in the Labour party, inherited through Frank Ross and DL. Populism is the driver of policy.

Funding: Dodgy to say the least including big contributions from mysterious millionaires

Quality of candidates: The lack of real world experience is troubling. How many SF candidates have a track record in private enterprise, or public service at a high level? Most are relying on political donations and public money for funding. I mean, when you are wheeling out Pearse Doherty and OBroin as the heavyweights you are in trouble.

Lack of clarity on criminality: Paul Quinn, Tom Oliver, Robert McCartney, Gerry McCabe. And Denis Donaldson, one of their own. Just a few, you can fill in the rest yourself

Manifesto: The sums don't add up. Taxing the ****e out of the drivers of the economy will still not pay for the giveaway promises. Not to mention the risk of reduced overall tax take.

Track record in representation: The worst ghettos in the UK are SF strongholds. Can't all be Westminster's fault, can it? Keep them poor, keep them loyal.

Lack of support for Good Friday agreement: The principles of consent, and changes to territorial claims over NI, have never been honoured. Crises are routinely invented to destabilize the society. The biggest SF fear is a functioning Stormont.

Weaponising the Irish language: Plenty of sincere cultural nationalists are hoodwinked by this. Our culture should not be abused in the way it has been.

Appropriation of causes: There wasn't a word from SF about marriage equality or 8th amendement until they smelled an opportunity to appeal to the 'right on' voter. For a party that has questions to answer on harbouring child abusers, its insistence on social justice is strange.

More tomorrow

ive been in sf for years as a member - chair of a cumann at one stage ... and not only is that whole post bollox, but one thing for sure is the rule from belfast idea is bollox. We were free to discuss and organise how and what we wished, as long as we're all on the same page. No point being in the party if you dont already think along similar lines, but the idea someone in belfast tells the rest of the party how to act is the biggest load of cobblers Ive ever read on Boards (and theres an awful lot of shoemakers on boards)

Track record in representation: The worst ghettos in the UK are SF strongholds. Can't all be Westminster's fault, can it? Keep them poor, keep them loyal.

and this .... go learn some history - try derry in the late 50s/60s. Yes it CAN all be WMs fault. Keep 'em poor was exactly what was going on

rafatoni

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Thread clearly started by a SF sleeper but if you need an answer

.

More tomorrow

Please dont, youve spouted enough poppy cock for 2020 already. Best off drinking a green tea ans lying down.

anewme

maccored wrote: »

you really really didnt read my post did you?

Try the link IN MY POST and then have a look at the comments.

Are you really what a FF or FG voter is like? Its no wonder we get the government we have.

I'm just a normal person disillusioned with the current status quo who came across this thread. You will see I've said they are all poor.

Your attempts to belittle me because I don't agree with you show how bullying SF supporters are. It's not NI or your way or the highway any more.

My posts are correct from a comprehension and grammar stance.

Your own posts are not- yet you try to make out I'm the one who is stupid, because I don't agree with you.

This is the kind of post expected from a SF supporter. Low level agressive intimidation.

maccored

anewme wrote: »

I'm just a normal person disillusioned with the current status quo who came across this thread. You will see I've said they are all poor.

Your attempts to belittle me because I don't agree with you show how bullying SF supporters are. It's not NI or your way or the highway any more.

My posts are correct from a comprehension and grammar stance.

Your own posts are not- yet you try to make out I'm the one who is stupid, because I don't agree with you.

This is the kind of post expected from a SF supporter. Low level intimidation.

I posted a link and an image and you didnt even respect my post enough to read it before reposting part of it and asking me where the part was that you omitted.

The Rape of Lucretia

maccored wrote: »

you really really didnt read my post did you?

Try the link IN MY POST and then have a look at the comments.

Are you really what a FF or FG voter is like? Its no wonder we get the government we have.

We get the quality of government we have, because that is the limit of the Irish capability to govern themselves. Which, to be fair, is not that bad really. People will always point to the imperfections. But point to the country that is a utopia governed by outstanding elected representatives - you wont find one. The expectation is unrealistic - yet people still vote stupidly searching for that utopia government, only making their situation worse. FF FG voters are probably the best voters. Greens and Labour, sensible enough too, with a little bit of added colour. Anyone voting for the rest, really just make a strong case for limiting the one person one vote franchise to those truly capable of using it responsibly.

anewme

maccored wrote: »

I posted a link and an image and you didnt even respect my post enough to read it before reposting part of it and asking me where the part was that you omitted.

You've tried to maintain anyone who does not agree with you must be a stupid FF/FG voter more than once."It's no wonder we
have the Govt we have" Maybe people believe SF would make things even worse?

Your tone is agressive and you can't accept not everyone is pro SF here for their own reasons.

My vote is as relevant as yours, it's not your place to belittle my choices. Or is that the SF policy?

maccored

anewme wrote: »

You've tried to maintain anyone who does not agree with you must be a stupid FF/FG voter more than once.

Your tone is agressive and you can't accept not everyone is pro SF here for their own reasons.

My vote is as relevant as yours, it's not your place to belittle my choices.

have you went to the facebook page and read the comments yet? is that why you're angry?

maccored

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

We get the quality of government we have, because that is the limit of the Irish capability to govern themselves. Which, to be fair, is not that bad really. People will always point to the imperfections. But point to the country that is a utopia governed by outstanding elected representatives - you wont find one. The expectation is unrealistic - yet people still vote stupidly searching for that utopia government, only making their situation worse. FF FG voters are probably the best voters. Greens and Labour, sensible enough too, with a little bit of added colour. Anyone voting for the rest, really just make a strong case for limiting the one person one vote franchise to those truly capable of using it responsibly.

now this - this is a good old fashioned insult, and cleverly done. Basically if you dont vote FF, FG, Greens or Labour then you aren't capable of using a vote.

Well done.

anewme

maccored wrote: »

have you went to the facebook page and read the comments yet? is that why you're angry?

I don't use Facebook as a tool when assessing candidates. Its just unedited noise.

joe swanson

Really noticed the shinnerbots out in force the last couple of weeks. Anyway if you don’t care about about the murderous past, jerry Mccabe , large scale cover up of child sexual abuse , bullying within a large number of constituencies throughout the country , support of terrorists and good republicans , Robert McCartney coverup and the numerous other vile things they have done , then by all means vote for Sinn Fein

maccored

anewme wrote: »

I don't use Facebook as a tool when assessing candidates. Its just unedited noise.

Look - I dont want to hurt your feelings or annoy you or anything like that .... but the post was about RTEs facebook stream of the interview. God knows why you bothered answering a post regarding a facebook stream if you dont use facebook.

Sorry if that was offensive. It wasnt meant to be.

maccored

joe swanson wrote: »

Really noticed the shinnerbots out in force the last couple of weeks. Anyway if you don’t care about about the murderous past, jerry Mccabe , large scale cover up of child sexual abuse , bullying within a large number of constituencies throughout the country , support of terrorists and good republicans , Robert McCartney coverup and the numerous other vile things they have done , then by all means vote for Sinn Fein

you may get to the guards and tell them all about how those looking to get elected for SF are guilty of those crimes.

Otherwise, why are you mentioning it? Its from a different time - and almost even a different party involved considering how they used to be northern based and have since grown very much as a southern party. If these people are responsible for what you say - tell the guards now!! You couldn't elect someone like that.

Unless of course they have never done such things and you're playing the emotional card. Pretty desperate if you ask me to be going on like that

skimpydoo

anewme wrote: »

Those comments dont say anything. Apart from they are from a pro SF Facebook slant.

What is the page they are from?

They are from the RTE News Facebook page.

anewme

maccored wrote: »

Look - I dont want to hurt your feelings or annoy you or anything like that .... but the post was about RTEs facebook stream of the interview. God knows why you bothered answering a post regarding a facebook stream if you dont use facebook.

Sorry if that was offensive. It wasnt meant to be.

You are not hurting my feelings.

I'd not pay much credence to Facebook and the quality of input there.

As a SF supporter, their previous mantra was to implent additional taxes on those earning 70k. Now, its increased to 100k. Why would you think this is so?

The Rape of Lucretia

maccored wrote: »

you may get to the guards and tell them all about how those looking to get elected for SF are guilty of those crimes.

Otherwise, why are you mentioning it? Its from a different time - and almost even a different party involved considering how they used to be northern based and have since grown very much as a southern party. If these people are responsible for what you say - tell the guards now!! You couldn't elect someone like that.

Unless of course they have never done such things and you're playing the emotional card. Pretty desperate if you ask me to be going on like that

Its not really a question of direct culpability for the crimes. Its what the company they keep or haev kept says about their character, morals, and capability to act as public representatives.
That is the warning light that indicates their unelectability to so many.

skimpydoo

anewme wrote: »

You are not hurting my feelings.

I'd not pay much credence to Facebook and the quality of input there.

As a SF supporter, their previous mantra was to implent additional taxes on those earning 70k. Now, its increased to 100k. Why would you think this is so?

Actually it's not 100K, Mary Lou told Dobson it was 140K.

anewme

maccored wrote: »

Its from a different time

They met the Gerry McCabe murderers on their release from prison in 2009, hardly a different time.

The Rape of Lucretia

maccored wrote: »

You couldn't elect someone like that.

And indeed, most make this same conclusion.

anewme

skimpydoo wrote: »

Actually it's not 100K, Mary Lou told Dobson it was 140K.

No that's not what their website says. They want additional taxes on those on 100k

anewme

anewme wrote: »

They want additional taxes on those on 100k

Their website actually says

Introduce a third rate of income tax on individual earnings over €100,000.