Thinking of Voting Sinn Fein - Should I?

jimgoose

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I hadn't seen the stamp duty increase from SF. Holy ****, everyone will have to jump on the housing list.
My mortgage from the bank wouldn't allow me borrow for stamp duty. If we can't get deposits of 10% together how the **** do we get a stamp duty of 12.5% together?

A 300K house may seem affordable but addiing on the - 37.5k needed for stamp duty that's needed upfront certainly makes it difficult!

Are you getting it yet? SF hate private property, hate those who own it or want it, and hate anything that isn't provided by the almighty (Marxist) State.

thegetawaycar

jimgoose wrote: »

Are you getting it yet? SF hate private property, hate those who own it or want it, and hate anything that isn't provided by the almighty (Marxist) State.

I'm not a Shinner by the way, I'm just looking through the manifestos and with them surging and FF and FG trying to tear them down you would think that's something they would jump on.
How can you expect people that can't raise 10% deposit to also raise 12.5% stamp duty?
It's raising 500m based on the manifesto so they clearly expect it to happen.

jimgoose

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I'm not a Shinner by the way, I'm just looking through the manifestos and with them surging and FF and FG trying to tear them down you would think that's something they would jump on.
How can you expect people that can't raise 10% deposit to also raise 12.5% stamp duty?
It's raising 500m based on the manifesto so they clearly expect it to happen.

That's the usual caper, they fail to apprehend that tax alters people's behaviour, it's not a simple matter of clapping the milking-machine on them. :pac:

machaseh

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I hadn't seen the stamp duty increase from SF. Holy ****, everyone will have to jump on the housing list.
My mortgage from the bank wouldn't allow me borrow for stamp duty. If we can't get deposits of 10% together how the **** do we get a stamp duty of 12.5% together?

A 300K house may seem affordable but addiing on the - 37.5k needed for stamp duty that's needed upfront certainly makes it difficult!

What I find here is:

Increase Stamp Duty on commercial property to 12.5%
€440 million

How would your OWN home qualify as a commercial property? Aren't commercial properties properties acquiring for your business or for renting out/airbnb? Stop spreading fakenews please.

Source:
https://bizplus.ie/sinn-fein-unveils-radical-tax-proposals/

anewme

jimgoose wrote: »

Are you getting it yet? SF hate private property, hate those who own it or want it, and hate anything that isn't provided by the almighty (Marxist) State.

They look very middle class allright.

Lonesomerhodes

No

For the following reasons. (strangely enough you start a thread criticizing Sinn Fein on this it's closed in a heatbeat, obvious Shinner heads in the mods I see.)



I think they are a terrible alternative and a massive sell out party for a few reasons.

One thing is they change policy to suit the electorate.

A good example of this is just 4 year ago Sinn Fein were pro life, refusing to back bills for abortion and not accepting bills brought forward by that other Marxist header Clare Daly. Fast forward three years and they might as well be funded by Planned parenthood such is their overwhelming support for abortion!.

Regardless of your opinion on the issue Surely a party should stick to it's principles?.


They support terrorist organisations like the the IRA and Antifa, actively sell their crap on their website.



In other countries Nationalist parties at least question direct provision and the money spent on asylum seekers. Not so sell out Sinn Fein actively support immigration and refuse to question it and refuse to defend Irish Citizens in relation to defending free speech, the shell to sea people, refuse to defend the land league and people being evicted from their homes and refuse to acknowledge the natural assets Ireland has ie oil,gas, our fisheries etc.

What about their stance on IRA murders?

People like Paul Quinn, Jerry McCabe?.

Defending silence.

How virtuous eh?.

Their election promises sound like bullcrap as well build 100,000 houses in 5 years?.

(probably put Asylum seekers in them in line with their Marxist indoctrination!)

How about taking 1 million workers out of USC?.


I don't buy it for a minute.

A vote for Sinn Fein to me is a wasted vote for the biggest flip floppers and sell outs going.

Another bunch of champagne socialists lining their own pockets at the expense of the Irish.

Snow Garden

I don't care if you vote for SF or not but please don't vote for FFG. They have failed the state.

macwal

jimgoose wrote: »

Are you getting it yet? SF hate private property, hate those who own it or want it, and hate anything that isn't provided by the almighty (Marxist) State.

Do none of the SF delegates/supporters have private property?

jimgoose

macwal wrote: »

Do none of the SF delegates/supporters have private property?

Several, yes. I expect Snowball herself has quite a nice pad in a salubrious corner of Dublin. That's "different".

Diceicle

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Thread clearly started by a SF sleeper but if you need an answer

OP here - can hand on heart say I've never in my life given SF a vote. Last National election I would have given the Soc Dems my number 1 - but that was mainly based on the fact that Stephen Donnelly was with them and he is/was a good performer.
If I have ever given an SF candidate a vote its been right down the end of the ticket tbh.

armaghlad

Who you gonna vote for Jim?

Loafing Oaf

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

A good example of this is just 4 year ago Sinn Fein were pro life, refusing to back bills for abortion and not accepting bills brought forward by that other Marxist header Clare Daly. Fast forward three years and they might as well be funded by Planned parenthood such is their overwhelming support for abortion!.

Regardless of your opinion on the issue Surely a party should stick to it's principles?.

Huh? SF brought forward a motion calling for X case legislation in 2012 and suspended Peadar Toibin when he ultimately voted against that legislation.

Anyway, OP says he's 'socially left' so I doubt he has any problem with SF's current position on the issue.

jimgoose

armaghlad wrote: »

Who you gonna vote for Jim?

It'll be a mix 'em-gether 'em of FG, Labour and probably one of the saner Greens. :pac:

Diceicle

Deleted User wrote: »

Idbatterim, I agree with you on 99% of threads I see you comment on.

However, I have to say I'm strongly considering voting SF for the first time ever this time.

FG played a blinder with Brexit and the negotiations, but I still think they have lost touch. Eoin O'Broin called for a rent freeze which would benefit me, but it got poo-pooed by ffg. Nothing else in the land is inflating by 4% yearly, so why is rent allowed increase by that much year on year?

Past Taoisigh have been doctors and school teachers, not like any were economics experts or anything.

I don't know, but maybe, i think I'd give SF a go. FG brought us out of recession, but I like many people don't really feel it.

I'm undecided.

Theoretically I should probably vote FG - but at the end of the day I'm too poor to be their target market. I just don't have the big salary for them.

I think that their performance, as I mentioned in the OP, on the Childrens Hospital, Broadband, Dara Murphy, the Black and tans etc. Coupled with Paschals reluctance to tackle the zero tax cuckoo / vulture funds pay has pushed me in the SF direction.

jimgoose

Diceicle wrote: »

Theoretically I should probably vote FG - but at the end of the day I'm too poor to be their target market. I just don't have the big salary for them.

I think that their performance, as I mentioned in the OP, on the Childrens Hospital, Broadband, Dara Murphy, the Black and tans etc. Coupled with Paschals reluctance to tackle the zero tax cuckoo / vulture funds pay has pushed me in the SF direction.

Don't worry, you won't have much of a salary to be bothering you for too long if SF get into actual power. :pac:

Edgware

macwal wrote: »

Do none of the SF delegates/supporters have private property?

These are all catch cries by S F lefties like O Broin. They have to say these things to knock out Brid Smith. Gino and the other far left Headbangers. If they increase support from the middle of the road voter these policies will go out the window using F.F.G excuses such as "we obtained legal advice which opposed it".
Have a read of Animal Farm by George Orwell. It will show what is going to happen.
Slab and the boys are not really into this distribution of wealth trick

scrumqueen

Diceicle wrote: »

OP here - can hand on heart say I've never in my life given SF a vote. Last National election I would have given the Soc Dems my number 1 - but that was mainly based on the fact that Stephen Donnelly was with them and he is/was a good performer.
If I have ever given an SF candidate a vote its been right down the end of the ticket tbh.

Did you watch Donnelly on Claire Byrne Health special a few weeks ago? Absolute car crash. Why wouldn't the rest of the SD's still get your #1? They are running far more candidates and have some really solid potential in their ranks.

Diceicle

jimgoose wrote: »

Don't worry, you won't have much of a salary to be bothering you for too long if SF get into actual power. :pac:

Personally, that is one thing I think is missing from their manifesto - they do not have any plan to change the rate at which we enter the higher tax bracket. At least FG say they'll bring it to €50k over 5 years (though they also committed to removing the USC, so......)
I don't mind the SF 5% rate on incomes over €140k. As I'm not on that much. Though it gives me pause as obviously we need to attract in high net worth tech-types. Given that the average salary for residents in down around the Silicon Docks in Dublin is €150k (average!) - I think they can take the hit.
I disagree with the SF proposal to abolish the property tax - I'd agree with David McWilliams on this one that that tax should be heavily increased (as its an unproductive asset) while decreasing the tax on work (as enabling people to keep more of their income is better for the economy).

Handy income tax commitments table here:
https://home.kpmg/ie/en/home/insights/2020/01/personal-tax-policies-contained-in-general-election-2020-manifestos.html

Diceicle

scrumqueen wrote: »

Did you watch Donnelly on Claire Byrne Health special a few weeks ago? Absolute car crash. Why wouldn't the rest of the SD's still get your #1? They are running far more candidates and have some really solid potential in their ranks.

Caught some of it but tuned out. Saw a couple of snippets as well. Yes, poor show from him overall. Not sure why. Historically, and overall, I would say SD is a good performer. Arguably better suited to a Finance / Social Welfare / Innovation role rather than health (maybe?).
His message with the SocDems at the time, around reducing the cost of living rather than giving someone an extra 5er resonated with me at the time.
Probably in the same way the SF focus on insurance rip-offs got my attention as well. Its something achievable and which would have a tangiable benefit to most people.
On the SocDems - they do have some good candidates. I'm in the North Kildare constituency and have voted Catherine Murphy in the past. Not the best on TV and Radio but is someone who has integrity. All in all though I think the SocDems are too Liberal on alot of issues for me - I say this as someone who voted pro-choice and pro-marriage equality.

rdwight

jimgoose wrote: »

Are you getting it yet? SF hate private property, hate those who own it or want it, and hate anything that isn't provided by the almighty (Marxist) State.

Yet they want to abolish property taxes.

Ireland must be home to the only Marxists (or Socialists) in the world who are against property taxes.

Fol20

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously, do you have a newsletter? Because I'd toss my telly out the window now and happily pay 170 a year for that over RTE.

My rent is going up by 4% next month. Sure, its only 4% but since the rent cap came in my rent has gone up, legally, by 17%.

The only party promising a freeze is SF.

We all know, all the parties are lying with their promises. Its no longer a case of who is lying least, or who will deliver least.

Its who we trust to help us the most.

Who do we trust?

Rent freeze has proven to not work in other countries. Why do you think Ireland will fair any better?

The issue here is supply and anything that causes supply to slow down or even decrease will have nothing but negative affects. If people are staying in a dingy apartment, why would a ll ever improve the place if there is a rent freeze as well.

As you have also pointed on rpz which also hasn’t worked in other countries is clearly not helping you as well.

As you can see. More of the same leads to more of the same so sf are no better with their ideas as well.

jimgoose

rdwight wrote: »

Yet they want to abolish property taxes.

Ireland must be home to the only Marxists (or Socialists) in the world who are against property taxes.

Shockin' daycint of 'em. They can rot.

thequarefellow

Fol20 wrote: »

Rent freeze has proven to not work in other countries. Why do you think Ireland will fair any better?

The issue here is supply and anything that causes supply to slow down or even decrease will have nothing but negative affects. If people are staying in a dingy apartment, why would a ll ever improve the place if there is a rent freeze as well.

As you have also pointed on rpz which also hasn’t worked in other countries is clearly not helping you as well.

As you can see. More of the same leads to more of the same so sf are no better with their ideas as well.

Just because it hasn't worked in certain places shouldn't stop it being looked at as an option. Learn from the mistakes elsewhere and apply it in such a way that it will make a difference. Berlin have just announced a rent freeze - they seem to think it is a necessary step. It's not like the landlords are facing financial ruin at the thought of a rent freeze. Landlords are creaming it at the moment. Then there are others who say it will drive landlords out of the system. So what? There are far too many opportunistic landlords in the country anyway. Yes, it might decrease accommodation in the short term but eventually the benefits will outweigh. With properly instituted penalties for leaving accommodate idle/derelict the properties will find their way back into the sales market. More houses for sale reduces prices. Reduced prices for housing will reduce land prices. Government should cultivate a system where it is economically unattractive to hoard housing and land. This is where the government step in and build, on land it already owns, on a large scale. High density housing where it is sensible to do so. Housing needs to be de-commodified.

Trizo

thequarefellow wrote: »

Just because it hasn't worked in certain places shouldn't stop it being looked at as an option. Learn from the mistakes elsewhere and apply it in such a way that it will make a difference. Berlin have just announced a rent freeze - they seem to think it is a necessary step. It's not like the landlords are facing financial ruin at the thought of a rent freeze. Landlords are creaming it at the moment. Then there are others who say it will drive landlords out of the system. So what? There are far too many opportunistic accidental landlords in the country anyway. Yes, it might decrease accommodation in the short term but eventually the benefits will outweigh. With properly instituted penalties for leaving accommodate idle/derelict the properties will find their way back into the sales market. More houses for sale reduces prices. Reduced prices for housing will reduce land prices. Government should cultivate a system where it is economically unattractive to hoard housing and land. This is where the government step in and build, on land it already owns, on a large scale. High density housing where it is sensible to do so. Housing needs to be de-commodified.

Opportunistic accidental landlords ??? this doesn't even make sense? Do you even understand what you are typing ?

thequarefellow

Trizo wrote: »

Opportunistic accidental landlords ??? this doesn't even make sense? Do you even understand what you are typing ?

Mistake corrected. Sorry dude

Fol20

Diceicle wrote: »

Personally, that is one thing I think is missing from their manifesto - they do not have any plan to change the rate at which we enter the higher tax bracket. At least FG say they'll bring it to €50k over 5 years (though they also committed to removing the USC, so......)
I don't mind the SF 5% rate on incomes over €140k. As I'm not on that much. Though it gives me pause as obviously we need to attract in high net worth tech-types. Given that the average salary for residents in down around the Silicon Docks in Dublin is €150k (average!) - I think they can take the hit.
I disagree with the SF proposal to abolish the property tax - I'd agree with David McWilliams on this one that that tax should be heavily increased (as its an unproductive asset) while decreasing the tax on work (as enabling people to keep more of their income is better for the economy).

Handy income tax commitments table here:
https://home.kpmg/ie/en/home/insights/2020/01/personal-tax-policies-contained-in-general-election-2020-manifestos.html

So basically your ok with everything here as it doesn’t impact you negatively?

Fol20

thequarefellow wrote: »

Just because it hasn't worked in certain places shouldn't stop it being looked at as an option. Learn from the mistakes elsewhere and apply it in such a way that it will make a difference. Berlin have just announced a rent freeze - they seem to think it is a necessary step. It's not like the landlords are facing financial ruin at the thought of a rent freeze. Landlords are creaming it at the moment. Then there are others who say it will drive landlords out of the system. So what? There are far too many opportunistic landlords in the country anyway. Yes, it might decrease accommodation in the short term but eventually the benefits will outweigh. With properly instituted penalties for leaving accommodate idle/derelict the properties will find their way back into the sales market. More houses for sale reduces prices. Reduced prices for housing will reduce land prices. Government should cultivate a system where it is economically unattractive to hoard housing and land. This is where the government step in and build, on land it already owns, on a large scale. High density housing where it is sensible to do so. Housing needs to be de-commodified.

Your comment makes no sense. I am only talking about tenants here when i make my comment. The only way to get rent down is to increase supply. Rent freeze will stifle growth and or decrease supply. Less supply of rental property will lead to more homeless or people being forced to live with friends and family. You even acknowledged that this might happen in the short term. The property will go to a ppr property when sold so yes sale prices may decrease slightly but the foundation here is renters and if you are in the privileged position to buy, good for you, but it doesnt help renters.

With what money can the government build with. They are obligated to follow anti competitive and debt rules in EU so they are quite limited in what they can do.

Just look at Irelands track record for implementing anything. So its been proven to not work in other nations and i dont know of one western example of where it has worked and your response is to still go for it?? Yes Germany has brought it in, but two wrongs dont make a right. do you know of any nation where it has worked?

doxy79

I don't have a SF candidate running in my constituency. Seems a bit mad if they're a party on the cusp of challenging the big two. They're going to leave a tonne of votes behind?

dashcamdanny

doxy79 wrote: »

I don't have a SF candidate running in my constituency. Seems a bit mad if they're a party on the cusp of challenging the big two. They're going to leave a tonne of votes behind?

I dont think they were even ready for the appetite for change.

Jinglejangle69

Or they actually don't want to be in government.