Thinking of Voting Sinn Fein - Should I?

maccored

Hulk Hands wrote: »

What is to stop them from turning a blind eye to IRA activities in Ireland if they get in power. You can see this from their opposition to the Special Criminal Court. Or worse than turning a blind eye, actively encouraging criminal activity.

The IRA have no freedom fight in the republic. They do however, have plenty of opporunity to profit from robbing ATM's, Banks and looking for business protection money as is routine up north. Are these the people you want protecting you from crime in Government?

The provisional IRA dont exist. Perhaps you require a bit of education on your IRAs and what ones SF ever supported? I believe you do.

machaseh

Hulk Hands wrote: »

What is to stop them from turning a blind eye to IRA activities in Ireland if they get in power. You can see this from their opposition to the Special Criminal Court. Or worse than turning a blind eye, actively encouraging criminal activity.

The IRA have no freedom fight in the republic. They do however, have plenty of opporunity to profit from robbing ATM's, Banks and looking for business protection money as is routine up north. Are these the people you want protecting you from crime in Government?

I am aware that there are criminal activities linked to the IRA in Dublin but this is something for the Gardaí to solve and not for sin Féin.

machaseh

Fol20 wrote: »

People are ok with change as long as it benefits them positively. Instead of using emotive terms. Please back up a cause and effect with logic.

Our government tax mnc and reits very little as the positives they bring far outweigh the negatives. Apple employ 6000 staff in Ireland. That means 6000 people are paying paye tax, prsi and are not draining the economy of dole. This doesn’t include all of the extra secondary jobs this creates. Please tell me why Ireland is so great for business because the bottom line is what is important to every business. We are an expensive nation to employ, we have unions, very strong labour laws. So again why would a large global corporation choose Ireland over India if we don’t offer incentives of our own.

They want to tax high net worth individuals. Some Americans disavow their American citizenship to avoid paying tax. High net worth individuals will always find ways around this so the last thing any nation wants is for high net worth individuals to leave as they take their capital with them, pay tax to another nation and let’s face it. It is not the ordinary people that pay the bulk of the tax it is the top 10pc and if they move. We are really big trouble. The top 10pc(who are highly mobile) pay 61pc of taxes - https://igees.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Income-Dynamics-Mobility-in-Ireland-Evidence-from-Tax-Records-Microdata.pdf

Large corporations exist in countries such as the Netherlands too which have much better social security than Ireland , let alone America.

Improving a country costs money, and large corporations and billionaires are exactly where a lot of that money disappears.

We need to put an end to inequality. Fears of all large corporations suddenly leaving Ireland are pro corporate right wing scaremongering.

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

The provisional IRA dont exist. Perhaps you require a bit of education on your IRAs and what ones SF ever supported? I believe you do.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crime/ira-army-council-still-oversees-sinn-fein-strategy-psni-says-2015-assessment-unchanged-1-9133129


The PSNI says there has been “no change” since a 2015 assessment that the PIRA Army Council was still overseeing both Sinn Fein and the remaining structures of the terror organisation with an “over arching strategy”.

Do I believe this or an anonymous internet poster?

is_that_so

wolfe wrote: »

Pearse Doherty going to romp home in Donegal and bring McLaughlin with him at the expense of Pringle....according to bookies.

That should have been the result the last time except they ran 3 and got 1!

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crime/ira-army-council-still-oversees-sinn-fein-strategy-psni-says-2015-assessment-unchanged-1-9133129


The PSNI says there has been “no change” since a 2015 assessment that the PIRA Army Council was still overseeing both Sinn Fein and the remaining structures of the terror organisation with an “over arching strategy”.

Do I believe this or an anonymous internet poster?

When you say such things you should clarify if you are talking about the British Army, IRA, UVF or RUC etc.

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Do people still believe we will get 13 billion fro. apple and its all ours???

Seriously gullible people.

Well FG and Apple believe it's theres but the EU have issues with that.

jj880

Yes everyone should vote sinn fein in - if for no other reason than to show they are as full of sh!t as FF and FG. Then they will blame FF / FG / Brussels when they cant follow through on their election promises. The usual nonsense.

James Brown

Mango Joe wrote: »

For as long as I can remember Sinn Fein have been glibly promising everybody, everything, always.

But they never have an actual realistic means of delivery and their childish, concocted sums never add up.

- They're also far too close and cozy with the some of the most odious Characters this Country has ever produced.

I think you'll find those on the higher tier income brackets would disagree.

DeValera, O'Duffy, Haughy, Lawlor, Burke, Ahern, Lowry, Conlan, (Noonan, watch this space)?

misterme123

I don't think any other party can match Sinn Féin when it comes to willfully targeting stupid voters.

firemansam4

Fol20 wrote:

People are ok with change as long as it benefits them positively. Instead of using emotive terms. Please back up a cause and effect with logic.

Our government tax mnc and reits very little as the positives they bring far outweigh the negatives. Apple employ 6000 staff in Ireland. That means 6000 people are paying paye tax, prsi and are not draining the economy of dole. This doesn’t include all of the extra secondary jobs this creates. Please tell me why Ireland is so great for business because the bottom line is what is important to every business. We are an expensive nation to employ, we have unions, very strong labour laws. So again why would a large global corporation choose Ireland over India if we don’t offer incentives of our own.

They want to tax high net worth individuals. Some Americans disavow their American citizenship to avoid paying tax. High net worth individuals will always find ways around this so the last thing any nation wants is for high net worth individuals to leave as they take their capital with them, pay tax to another nation and let’s face it. It is not the ordinary people that pay the bulk of the tax it is the top 10pc and if they move. We are really big trouble. The top 10pc(who are highly mobile) pay 61pc of taxes -

This is my worry about voting Sinn fein or any left leaning parties.

I am a low earner myself, but I worry that things could actually get a lot worse here for all of us in the long run if we start loosing the revenue these MNC create here.
I Believe that we are 100% doing the right thing in backing apple in the tax case.

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/mary-lou-mcdonald-could-well-be-the-irish-version-of-donald-trump-38920111.html

This is possibly the most insightful analysis of where we stand in this election.

"Meanwhile, along comes McDonald offering every tenant a month's free rent every year. She says she'll abolish your property tax and slash your USC. And you'll be able to draw down your State pension when you're 65. Pension time-bomb fear-mongers can go to hell and take their demographic statistics about an ageing population with them.

What's not to like? And sure the rich and the tech companies will pay for it all. Either that or they'll up sticks and move to China.

Sinn Féin's polices and promises are very appealing to the disenfranchised angry voter. McDonald is also a very capable debater and knows the benefits of a cutting soundbite. She has bags of them.

But like with Trump, there is an aspect of McDonald being in the right place at the right time with the right soundbites."

Mortelaro

machaseh wrote: »

By continuing to vote for FF/FG allt he time, nothing will change for the better.

That presupposes things can change
What do you do when they can't and won't?
What do you do when the builders won't come home because the cost of living is too high compared to wherever they are
What do you do when the nurses won't come home because the cost of living is too high and they can't get a house?
What do you do when all unions demand the deal the nurses get to persuade them home?
What do you do when income tax take falls because theres no incentive to do overtime due to tax rises?
What do you do when the EU tell you to cease and desist breaching your 3% budget deficit limit as a result?

Rose tinted beer goggles looking at Mary Lou and seeing a super model won't tell you what to do
What do you do?

Phoebas

blanch152 wrote: »

[.

"Meanwhile, along comes McDonald offering every tenant a month's free rent every year."

Can it be in September please, because she's promising a double month Child Benefit in August, so it'd be handier if my free rent month was September.

ELM327

Diceicle wrote: »

I'm looking for some other perspectives on the pros and cons of voting Sinn Fein for a floating-voter like myself.

Politically I consider myself economically right and socially left. If we got the real Varadkar, I'd arguably be considering voting for them, but we have the poundshop-Trudeau version with action-socks, and I don't like this version.

FGs ineptitude with infrastucture projects. The Black and Tans thing. Broadband. Denis O'Brien. Charlie Flanagan - are all aspects of the FG model that I don't like.

So then there's Sinn Fein:

Pros:

• SF appears to have some good performers. Mary-Lou, Doherty, O'Broin, Cullinane, Paddy Holohan (joke).
• They would, IMO, make a definite attempt to right some of the cost-of-living / quality-of-life issues that people are concerned about - the cost of insurance, commuting/infrastructure, housing.
• Their manifesto makes indications towards a more controlled form of immigration;
• They would be inclined to tackle the low-rate of Corporation tax paid by some MNCs (how far they'd get though....)
• They would also be inclined to address the Vulture and Cuckoo funds and the Zero tax they pay - unlike FG who have ruled out doing anything with them.
• They're not FF or FG.

Cons:

• They're more to the Left than I'd like.
• While I'm all in favour of solving the housing solution my preferred focus would be on building truly affordable homes rather than giving a #ForevahHome to anyone who didn't have the foresight to study in school, go to college / get a career and or not have kids until you're reasonably financially secure.
• They wouldn't be the party to tackle the excess / waste in the social welfare system.
• The burden they would place on a business causes me concern though I have to read up more of the detail on this part of their manifesto.
• Their championing of Traveller rights would not be something I'm behind.

Ultimately, I think the system is in need of radical change and maybe SF is the best-worst way to get that ball rolling????

These two do not align.
SF are from the loony left. Tax cuts, spending hikes, no tax increases

blanch152

Phoebas wrote: »

Can it be in September please, because she's promising a double month Child Benefit in August, so it'd be handier if my free rent month was September.

Unfortunately, there won't be any money left by September, you'll have to ask the IMF.

Idbatterim

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Where I came from, if you had a problem with anti social behavior from a resident in your community , you went to Sinn Fein.

They sorted it out all right.

Usually resulted in someone getting brutally beaten with bats or shot in the knee. Not to mention the murdering of innocent people they firmly connected with. They are very good at that.


How anyone could consider them to lead this country is beyond me.

the cost of that was zero I take it, a proper deterrent! What do we do now, just get them up in court, free legal aid for endless offences and let them go?

rdwight

Machaseh, on the slim possibility that you are not a troll...

machaseh wrote: »

What do we care about what happens in Belfast? I for one don't give one single sh*te. I'm in Dublin, not in Belfast.

I presume you are aware that for SF the aspiration of a United Ireland trumps all other policies?

machaseh wrote: »

Send me some links to articles on what happened and I'll be able to give my proper opinion on this matter.

machaseh wrote: »

I am aware that there are criminal activities linked to the IRA in Dublin but this is something for the Gardaí to solve and not for sin Féin.

How policing gets done is a function of political power in all states. If you want an example of how SF, in power, could undermine security then google "Special Criminal Court"

One of the cases you'll find referred to in the SCC Wikipedia entry is the Jerry McCabe murder.

If you want to know how SF viewed this murder goggle "mcauley ferris". While you're at it, google "Martin Ferris" and "Dessie Ellis" to see how distanced SF are from the IRA. And while you're at it, google "Whitey Bulger" to see the kind of Irish-American patriots who supported Martin Ferris in his the quest for a United Ireland.

I don't know about the Netherlands, but in Ireland we have, as far as I know, only one statue to a person who died during World War II. Unfortunately it is to a Nazi collaborator. Unfortunately he is a particular hero of Mary Lou's.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/sep/07/bloodysunday.northernireland

It particilarly irks me because I often pass the statue. Around the corner from Fairview Park is a (much smaller) memorial plaque to Jack Nalty, who died in Spain fighting the same fascists that Sean Russell was happy to collaborate with a couple of years later. If you read the article you will notice that, yes, Mary Lou managed to present herself at its unveiling. Hypocrisy in action.
https://rebelbreeze.wordpress.com/2018/09/27/east-wall-remembers-anti-fasciist-brigadista-jack-nalty/

Are there any statues to Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging members in the Netherlands. How would you feel about a modern political leader who paid homage to such a statue?

and so on... and so on... and so on..

Fol20

firemansam4 wrote: »

This is my worry about voting Sinn fein or any left leaning parties.

I am a low earner myself, but I worry that things could actually get a lot worse here for all of us in the long run if we start loosing the revenue these MNC create here.
I Believe that we are 100% doing the right thing in backing apple in the tax case.

Exactly. I don’t exactly like paying 50pc in tax when apple might be lucky to pay below 1pc but at the same time. They leverage their low taxes to employ a lot of staff here and any economics person would be pragmatic and realise same.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Well FG and Apple believe it's theres but the EU have issues with that.

No they don't accept there is a tax bill and in reality it probably belongs to the IRS

Wanderer78

Fol20 wrote:

Exactly. I don’t exactly like paying 50pc in tax when apple might be lucky to pay below 1pc but at the same time. They leverage their low taxes to employ a lot of staff here and any economics person would be pragmatic and realise same.

Go for it op

Corporate tax revenue is becoming a serious issue globally, it's very likely we ll eventually have to increase this rate, and we should, as we desperately need it, as do most other countries. We could start by getting them to pay the full 12.5% which few if any actually do, I.e. There's no need to increase this rate just yet. We could also partially accept this revenue as stocks and shares, it might just encourage these mnc's to stay

James Brown

misterme123 wrote: »

I don't think any other party can match Sinn Féin when it comes to willfully targeting stupid voters.

So anyone you disagree with is stupid? Nice.

christy c

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We could start by getting them to pay the full 12.5%

How? Only way I could see to do that would be to tax 12.5% of accounting profit, but there is potential problems with that (possible differences between IFRS and FRS 102?).

Also do you not allow companies to carry forward losses? Sounds harsh.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/mary-lou-mcdonald-could-well-be-the-irish-version-of-donald-trump-38920111.html

This is possibly the most insightful analysis of where we stand in this election.

"Meanwhile, along comes McDonald offering every tenant a month's free rent every year. She says she'll abolish your property tax and slash your USC. And you'll be able to draw down your State pension when you're 65. Pension time-bomb fear-mongers can go to hell and take their demographic statistics about an ageing population with them.

What's not to like? And sure the rich and the tech companies will pay for it all. Either that or they'll up sticks and move to China.

Sinn Féin's polices and promises are very appealing to the disenfranchised angry voter. McDonald is also a very capable debater and knows the benefits of a cutting soundbite. She has bags of them.

But like with Trump, there is an aspect of McDonald being in the right place at the right time with the right soundbites."

Leo Varadkar is much much closer to Trump on policy, but popular is bad unless it's FG right?

Jinglejangle69

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Go for it op

Corporate tax revenue is becoming a serious issue globally, it's very likely we ll eventually have to increase this rate, and we should, as we desperately need it, as do most other countries. We could start by getting them to pay the full 12.5% which few if any actually do, I.e. There's no need to increase this rate just yet. We could also partially accept this revenue as stocks and shares, it might just encourage these mnc's to stay

All of them pay 12.5% corporation tax on profits made here.

9.7 billion last year from the top 10 companies.

Its a myth they don't pay the rate.

rdwight

Another example of Sinn Fein hypocrisy has been its campaign to reduce corporation tax in Northern Ireland while criticising the low level of tax in the Free State
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/martin-mcguinness-no-ambiguity-in-sinn-feins-corporation-tax-position-34666241.html


Glad to see that this is another issue they have decided to do a U-turn on. Is there an election in the offing somewhere?
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/northern-ireland-drops-campaign-for-lower-corporation-tax-rate-1.4147171

Wanderer78

christy c wrote:

How? Only way I could see to do that would be to have it as 12.5% of accounting profit, but there is potential problems with that (possible differences between IFRS and FRS 102?).

Good question, I simply don't know how we do this, but maybe if we created the option of partial payments as stocks and shares, corporations maybe more open to change, it's hard to know

Wanderer78

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

Its a myth they don't pay the rate.

Many respected economic commentators must be wrong so, apparently there's a few billion short

armaghlad

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Every business in Belfast, from a big hotel to a small shopkeeper just trying to survive, has to pay protection money to one of the paramilitary groups. Sinn Fein are not only in league with these people, they have used this group as a source of funding and have actively allowed it during their time in power. Imagine being a nationalist small business owner in the North and feeling no choice but to vote for them, the people meant to be keeping you safe from crime. Every big decision made has to go through Ard Comhairle up north, meaning unelected people will be making the decisions.

How on earth do people think voting for this is ok? I get that people want a change, but there's plenty of other options without supporting whats close to a criminal group. That's not even getting into their spending promises which the dept of finance has deemed reckless.

Never have I read such shíte. Believe me there is much more money to be made by paramilitaries than to be “offering protection” to businesses in Belfast, what are they going to do? Burn down the Europa? Put Victoria’s squares windows in? I mean, yes criticise Sinn Féin but don’t talk absolute muck like this. Jesus Christ

christy c

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Good question, I simply don't know how we do this, but maybe if we created the option of partial payments as stocks and shares, corporations maybe more open to change, it's hard to know

I don't think it's really possible, nor would it really make sense. There are many reliefs available (mostly justified IMO).

For example, if a company loses €1m in one year, then makes €100k for the next 10 years they would not pay any tax, because combined they did not make any money in those years. But the soundbite in the media would be "company X did not pay any tax for 10 years".