How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest, i was more irritated when he considered moving to London as emigrating.. It's like moving to Dublin after living in the Midlands. The idea that he sacrificed so much to move to.... bam!... England. Yup. :rolleyes: it's just pathetic.

I suppose the only way to emigrate is to go to China. Have you gone to China, Klaz? Gawd, you never mention it. Lol.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the only way to emigrate is to go to China. Have you gone to China, Klaz? Gawd, you never mention it. Lol.

Did I mention it? Nope. :rolleyes:

creditcarder

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the only way to emigrate is to go to China. Have you gone to China, Klaz? Gawd, you never mention it. Lol.

I really hate that Lol :P It reminds me of people who use pop psychology in regular life as they read men respond negatively to laughter or something. You meet them a lot in eastern europe.

Church on Tuesday

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Instead of getting money for free, he moved away from home, worked part time for money and part time for free as an intern. And still some people say he’s entitled.

They were cross when they thought he was a loser who’d never actually achieve getting a play produced. They were equally cross when they heard his hard work and sacrifice was beginning to pay off and he’s getting a play produced.

Begrudgers gonna’ begrudge.

I'm sure the man is kept up all night worrying about what some people are saying about him on Boards. :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I'm sure the man is kept up all night worrying about what some people are saying about him on Boards. :rolleyes:

I doubt it.

I think the begrudging instinct some people exhibit is fascinating to see. It’s just the way some people are. I presume they just can’t help it.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I doubt it.

I think the begrudging instinct some people exhibit is fascinating to see. It’s just the way some people are. I presume they just can’t help it.

Oh, the irony. :pac:

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, the irony. :pac:

Yeah they can’t help it. Like criticising the guy for emigrating, others criticising the guy for not emigrating far enough, some criticising him for being such a loser he can’t get his plays produced, others for him only getting his plays produced in a small theatre. Some criticise him for even talking about his experience and call him entitled even though he didn’t complain about anything, he just got on with it.

Yeah some people will use any old thing to whinge about. One clown even said moving to England isn’t emigrating. These begrudgers will say anything. lol.

But I presume they just can’t help it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, i was more irritated when he considered moving to London as emigrating.. It's like moving to Dublin after living in the Midlands. The idea that he sacrificed so much to move to.... bam!... England. Yup. :rolleyes: it's just pathetic.

Moving to the UK is emigrating. I did it. It’s more of a culture shock than people realise.

Titclamp

Iscreamkone wrote: »

A friend of mine has a cleaner who does 3 hours a week for her. She’s in her 60s, is from Lithuania and has little spoken English. She works hard to make a living. She doesn’t complain if the conditions are hard or very casual. She makes enough money to get by. She doesn’t ask for money & stuff from the government like a lot of Irish do. If she gets paid cash in hand - good luck to her.

Its 3 hours not 300

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah they can’t help it. Like criticising the guy for emigrating, others criticising the guy for not emigrating far enough, some criticising him for being such a loser he can’t get his plays produced, others for him only getting his plays produced in a small theatre. Some criticise him for even talking about his experience and call him entitled even though he didn’t complain about anything, he just got on with it.

Yeah some people will use any old thing to whinge about. One clown even said moving to England isn’t emigrating. These begrudgers will say anything. lol.

But I presume they just can’t help it.

Oh, I'm a clown now? This is coming from someone who double speaks in almost every thread he involves himself in, and generally seeks to trigger everyone? Same with your criticism "by others" observations. Face in the mirror. You're such a hypocrite.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, I'm a clown now? This is coming from someone who double speaks in almost every thread he involves himself in, and generally seeks to trigger everyone? Same with your criticism "by others" observations. Face in the mirror. You're such a hypocrite.

Now now. No need to be triggered. You’ll shake yourself asunder

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Now now. No need to be triggered. You’ll shake yourself asunder

:P

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

:P

Lol

05eaftqbrs9jlh

vriesmays wrote: »

You'd be studying years for a job and doing unpaid voluntary work. A psychology degree isn't enough., Most in your classes will be women. The more interesting areas in psychology have no jobs in Ireland. Vacancies are mostly in counselling and child work. You'd be restricted in the hours you can work meaning an average wage.

That's actually complete bunkum. I'm not going to bother going into why, but you're clearly nothing to do with the field of psychology if you think that. Or you thinking that is the reason you don't work in psychology.

Also "most in your classes will be women" wth is that even implying.

vriesmays

Off you go then, explain how a middle-aged man will get a good job in Ireland with a psychology degree.

ToxicPaddy

Years ago a degree was seen as a measure of learning, could you apply yourself to something where the onus was on you to learn, not a teacher/lecturer/parents to lean on you to make you learn. Once complete, you has a degree and unless it was needed for a very specific profession then you could go on to most jobs from there.

The chap obviously has a passion for literature and you couldn't blame him for going for it, however the world has changed dramatically and now you need fairly specific degrees for most jobs these days, so unfortunately his passion for literature isn't a good path to take if he wanted a career in Ireland.

Add to the fact that he finished his degree/masters in the middle of one of the worst financial crisis the country has ever experienced would definitely add an additional nail to the coffin of him getting a career or even a job, made even more so by the fact he, was from a rural area.

So while I don't think his degree was the reason he couldn't get a job, no one could in 2009 I do pity him. However in London he succeeded but he chose a very specific profession while in London, publishing, and even in Dublin, it would be difficult to get a job in that.

So unfortunately not only did his degree/masters and coming from a rural area not help, the chosen profession has also not helped him get a job near home.

I know many like him, while difficult and I do pity them, Ireland is a small economy built on very specific industries and if you don't aim for one of them the chances of landing your preferred career here are very low.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Ensley Plump Segregation wrote: »

That's actually complete bunkum. I'm not going to bother going into why, but you're clearly nothing to do with the field of psychology if you think that. Or you thinking that is the reason you don't work in psychology.

Also "most in your classes will be women" wth is that even implying.

I don’t think it’s bunkum. All of my friends who did psychology degrees acknowledged how few opportunities there are in Ireland in the field. Any of them who did well in it left Ireland to to do so.

vriesmays

Exactly, anyone who says there are lots of well-paid psychology jobs for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

lainey_d_123

vriesmays wrote: »

Exactly, anyone who says there are lots of well-paid psychology jobs for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

Anyone who says there are any well paid jobs in anything for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

It's literally not what you know, but who you know. I spent my twenties watching complete morons get their lives handed to them on a plate because of who Daddy was, or some other sort of personal or family connection. I spent time working in a call centre it was chock full of really lovely, intelligent, skilled people who were working for a pittance in a dead end job because they couldn't get on that first rung of the ladder.

My advice would be, if you're not lucky enough to have rich parents, make friends with those who do. Make connections, network, whatever you can. This will open far more doors than any cert or degree alone will.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Anyone who says there are any well paid jobs in anything for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

It's literally not what you know, but who you know. I spent my twenties watching complete morons get their lives handed to them on a plate because of who Daddy was, or some other sort of personal or family connection. I spent time working in a call centre it was chock full of really lovely, intelligent, skilled people who were working for a pittance in a dead end job because they couldn't get on that first rung of the ladder.

My advice would be, if you're not lucky enough to have rich parents, make friends with those who do. Make connections, network, whatever you can. This will open far more doors than any cert or degree alone will.

While I agree with the networking, I don't agree with the rest of what you said. It entirely depends on your major and what work you've done to develop yourself to have practical skills. I know quite a few fresh graduates, without help from relations/connections, who have landed decent positions in Dublin recently.

The problem is that many graduates do the minimum needed to pass their exams, and think the world will fall down to hand out jobs to them. It won't. Getting your first/second class honors is definitely useful but it's what you know going into an interview that counts. Do the groundwork, research your target company/position, checklist the skills needed (before being told or trained by the company), and then, you'll have plenty of opportunities for good jobs. It's just worth remembering that in Ireland there is an employment ladder.. while in other countries, skipping a few levels is very doable, most professional positions in Ireland expect you to have done some work upwards from the low end first.

donaghs

A lot of posters saying people are just sneering at the guy, accusing him of whining, when he has legitimate complaint.
But it did sound like much of it was childish whining, so I went back and read the article again:

". I’d had potential but austerity stole it as its ransom.
I was 24, top of my year in college, an arts degree and a master’s in literature in my pocket, ..."
So what's new? Not many employers ever want someone straight of a college with an Arts degree, or a Master in Literature. The few positions that do have too many people applying for them.
This isn't a revelation, this has always been the case.

"... but in Co Clare I couldn’t even get a job in a shop."
True, the recession did mean there was less work in retail etc. Same for everyone.

"Despite the privilege of education, coming from a working-class rural village meant I wasn’t entitled to stay."
Not sure what he means here? Should there a government grant so Literature graduates can go back and live in rural villages?
Should the government create tailored jobs for people in each rural village?

"Growing up in the country, you know you won’t get to stay very long. To do well, you are told, you have to leave for college. There are no universities nearby and there are still not a lot of employment opportunities."
Is that a surprise? And should we build a university within commuting distance of every rural village?

"Economic migrants are also fleeing danger. Economics are dangerous. The National Suicide Research Foundation reports increased suicide rates linked to unemployment during the recession, and the Irish Medical Journal shows a stalled and lower-than-projected life expectancy in ageing populations for the same period."
Does it sound insensitive to tell him that the Yazidi women of Syria and Iraq have suffered more, and would be more deserving of asylum?

"Working-class but out of work, I was at risk, part of a generation specifically targeted by austerity - cutting dole, freezing wages and prohibiting new hires."
An ongoing debate, do you inherit your "class" status. Or does working class still imply having to do manual work - not having a Masters degree in literature and aspiring to be a playwright?

"Moving to London saved my life. I say that honestly and I don’t particularly like the place (soz, London)."
No comment needed here.

"Meanwhile, I see contemporary artists emigrating again, even now. The promised arts funding didn’t come - it never comes."
Not saying we shouldn't provide "Arts funding". But if he literally means subsiding artists so they can afford to live in Ireland, I'm not sure the taxpayer should be on the hook for that.
Entitlement.

How about this for a play, a Beckettesque parody of self-absorbed entitled would-be-artists: "Waiting for Arts Funding".

vriesmays

donaghs wrote: »

"Meanwhile, I see contemporary artists emigrating again, even now. The promised arts funding didn’t come - it never comes."
Not saying we shouldn't provide "Arts funding". But if he literally means subsiding artists so they can afford to live in Ireland, I'm not sure the taxpayer should be on the hook for that.
Entitlement.

Why is some dope who does arts in college considered more creative than a highly-paid software engineer or web designer. Why do these losers expect the State to fund them produce their bad art or writing. Why can't they get a paid job in another area and do their creativity in the evenings until they become successful.

KiKi III

vriesmays wrote: »

Why is some dope who does arts in college considered more creative than a highly-paid software engineer or web designer. Why do these losers expect the State to fund them produce their bad art or writing. Why can't they get a paid job in another area and do their creativity in the evenings until they become successful.

Many do.

The fact is creative professions have been devalued dramatically in recent generations, and the expectation that artists should work for free for exposure is common.

Pretty hard to do an 8 hour shift in Costa or teach all day, commute home and then start making high
quality art.

Who would want to live in a world without authors, playwrights and poets, singers and songwriters, painters and photographers and sculptors? What a bleak world that would be.

Yet many are content to rob their favourite art forms from the internet. And then act affronted that the government might support the artists we refuse to pay for their work, even if we love it.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

Many do.

The fact is creative professions have been devalued dramatically in recent generations, and the expectation that artists should work for free for exposure is common.

Pretty hard to do an 8 hour shift in Costa or teach all day, commute home and then start making high
quality art.

Who would want to live in a world without authors, playwrights and poets, singers and songwriters, painters and photographers and sculptors? What a bleak world that would be.

Yet many are content to rob their favourite art forms from the internet. And then act affronted that the government might support the artists we refuse to pay for their work, even if we love it.

Art is hard. Just as everything is, really. I write. I've written three books that were rejected and I've had two accepted by publishers. One self-published. I've made very little actual money from the sales of the books so far, but i continue to write in the hopes that I can turn it into a full time occupation. On average each book will have at least 200k words, and I'll have revised/edited each draft at least ten times before submitting them to an editor, and then I'll be back to revising them after feedback. Each book takes months to do, and I'm still working at the same time. I intentionally took a less paid position so that I would have time to write.

Art is a business, or it's a hobby. There's little crossover between the two, unless you're particularly talented and lucky... but for the rest of us, it's a long struggle towards recognition.

If people want to make money or support themselves from their artistic expression, then they need to go where the money is. Ireland is such a small market, which is already saturated with would-be poets, artists, writers, etc. It pays to be realistic. Just as anyone who wants to be a famous/successful actor/actress for the big screen won't stay in Ireland, hoping that Irish cinema will get them that success. For others, the internet helps, but it's also become rather saturated. Going to London made sense considering his interests, but to expect Ireland to provide the same opportunities is extremely naive.

KiKi III

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Art is hard. Just as everything is, really. I write. I've written three books that were rejected and I've had two accepted by publishers. One self-published. I've made very little actual money from the sales of the books so far, but i continue to write in the hopes that I can turn it into a full time occupation. On average each book will have at least 200k words, and I'll have revised/edited each draft at least ten times before submitting them to an editor, and then I'll be back to revising them after feedback. Each book takes months to do, and I'm still working at the same time. I intentionally took a less paid position so that I would have time to write.

Art is a business, or it's a hobby. There's little crossover between the two, unless you're particularly talented and lucky... but for the rest of us, it's a long struggle towards recognition.

If people want to make money or support themselves from their artistic expression, then they need to go where the money is. Ireland is such a small market, which is already saturated with would-be poets, artists, writers, etc. It pays to be realistic. Just as anyone who wants to be a famous/successful actor/actress for the big screen won't stay in Ireland, hoping that Irish cinema will get them that success. For others, the internet helps, but it's also become rather saturated. Going to London made sense considering his interests, but to expect Ireland to provide the same opportunities is extremely naive.

I agree that it’s unrealistic to expect the same experiences in Clare as in London or New York - that’s the same for almost any field tbh. I don’t think he did expect that. You can express disappointment and regret that things are a certain way while acknowledging that it wouldn’t be possible for them to be different.

I see his article as him telling his own story; not complaining, demanding or entitled. “Things were like this so i did that, it’s not ideal but I’m grateful for the opportunities...” That’s how I’d sum it up.

My previous point was a more general one in response to the comments on the thread. We spend our days on our phones listening to music, watching comedy sketches, reading stories, watching tv etc and we don’t pay a penny for most of it so the creators struggle to survive.

And then, having enjoyed a ton of content for free, log on to boards and bitch about them for “expecting handouts” and tell them to “get a real job”. Most artists don’t want handouts, they want society to pay a fair price for the entertainment they provide.

Buy books. Go see shows. If a busker made you smile, throw him or her a euro. Watch a YouTube ad now and then so the creators of the video you’re watching makes a little money. Art deserves support.

BalcombeSt4

So glad the OP got banned.

AH is already full enough of threads dedicated to right-wing illusions of the mind, that clearly do not translate into the real world.

"that homeless man wants a extra blanket & a hat to keep him warm in winter" - culture entitlement.

NSAman

Ain't nothing wrong with an Arts Degree (except if you are looking for a job). It is a great springboard for getting entry into something else.

I took a business degree after attaining mine and also a Higher Diploma in Education and a Masters (at night). Broad experience plus the above made me employable and also gave me a wide knowledge that many business only graduates lack.

It is all about what you want out of a Degree/Masters or any type of education.

BalcombeSt4

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

So glad the OP got banned.

AH is already full enough of threads dedicated to right-wing illusions of the mind, that clearly do not translate into the real world.

"that homeless man wants a extra blanket & a hat to keep him warm in winter" - culture entitlement.

Ahh yes, because the person in the article really compares with a homeless person... and your concept of what right wing entails seems to include pretty much everyone who doesn't agree with you. How very... tolerant of you. :rolleyes:

Strumms

At the end of the day, you must be a bit underdone if you pick a degree without doing a LOT of research into how it will add value and IF it will add value to your marketability in the jobs market.

vriesmays

KiKi III wrote: »

Pretty hard to do an 8 hour shift in Costa or teach all day, commute home and then start making high
quality art.

Artists Paul Gauguin was a stockbroker and Jeff Koons worked in Wall Street. Novelists Charles Dickens worked in a factory and Arthur Conan Doyle was a doctor. Composers Alexander Borodin was a chemist while Iannis Xenakis was an architect. Poets Robert Burns and Walt Whitman were both civil servants.