How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

Church on Tuesday

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

None of your business tbh, but people not moving for work really annoys me.

Save the free money and move or get a CU loan to get started

Well you're the expert here doling out advice left right and center, can you not give people here the metrics/particulars of your own experience living and working in Dublin/commuter belt, I have given mine as have others.

Fccwontletmebe

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Well you're the expert here doling out advice left right and center, can you not give people here the metrics of your own experience living and working in Dublin/commuter belt, I have given mine as have others.

I got the bus to Dublin for interviews.


I got a CU loan beforehand to be ready.

Got a job.


That's it really. I don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Church on Tuesday

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

I got the bus to Dublin for interviews.


I got a CU loan beforehand to be ready.

Got a job.


That's it really. I don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

A loan won't be an option for everyone, certainly not the people you are giving out about.

It's 2020. Rent prices are soaring in Dublin and elsewhere and there is extremely high competition for places also.

For many people it's simply not feasible.

optogirl

optogirl wrote: »

So art is useless and we should all be engineers. Grand.

arah would you stop, how did you get there from what was posted?

art is lovely. but dont go into it if youre going to moan about your prospects afterwards.

people dont work in jobs that pay because theyre all great bloody craic, and jobs that are hobbies tend not to pay.

thats life.

Fccwontletmebe

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

A loan won't be an option for everyone, certainly not the people you are giving out about.

It's 2020. Rent prices are soaring in Dublin and elsewhere and there is extremely high competition for places also.

For many people it's simply not feasible.

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses. Did I mention excuses?

Yes it is! Get a co-signer on the loan, Save as much as you can off the dole, get buses and commute, loan off parents.

It is easily feasible if you have a job lined up, obviously not if you dont as you will need to travel for interviews.

Yes if you start on 22K you will struggle but thats expected and your wages will go up as you get more experience.

Credit unions are generally very good at giving small loans to people starting out as long as you can show them the contract.

If you are starting a new job and need 2.5K the credit union will give it to you unless your an idiot with a terrible credit history.

People wonder why there prospects arn't good and they reason is they don't want to work and are happy been on the dole.

How did all the people manage to go to Australia during the recession? How did they manage the 5K in their accounts and the flights?

And your talking about moving to Dublin???? Give me a break

lozenges

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses.

Yes it is! Get a co-signer on the loan, Save as much as you can off the dole, get buses and commute, loan off parents.

It is easily feasible if you have a job lined up, obviously not if you dont as you will need to travel for interviews.

Yes if you start on 22K you will struggle but thats expected and your wages will go up as you get more experience.

Credit unions are generally very good at giving small loans to people starting out as long as you can show them the contract.

If you are starting a new job and need 2.5K the credit union will give it to you unless your an idiot with a terrible credit history.

Not everyone is in a position that their parents can afford to loan them money. And there's no guarantee that you would get a loan from the bank/CU.

I read the article. I read the one from the girl who's returned from New York also. To me they are totally different in tone. The New York girl yes came across as whingy and entitled. I didn't get that from the other fella at all. He would have liked any job locally, couldn't get one so he sucked it up and emigrated, and has managed to find work in his chosen field.

Now he's considering moving back but the high rents and cost of living are barriers.

Don't see a bit wrong with that. People resident here are complaining about the exact same thing. Including those who studied a non Arts degree and are employed in a 'practical' field.

Church on Tuesday

Fccwontletmebe wrote: »

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses. Did I mention excuses?

Yes it is! Get a co-signer on the loan, Save as much as you can off the dole, get buses and commute, loan off parents.

It is easily feasible if you have a job lined up, obviously not if you dont as you will need to travel for interviews.

Yes if you start on 22K you will struggle but thats expected and your wages will go up as you get more experience.

Credit unions are generally very good at giving small loans to people starting out as long as you can show them the contract.

If you are starting a new job and need 2.5K the credit union will give it to you unless your an idiot with a terrible credit history.

People wonder why there prospects arn't good and they reason is they don't want to work and are happy been on the dole.

How did all the people manage to go to Australia during the recession? How did they manage the 5K in their accounts and the flights?

And your talking about moving to Dublin???? Give me a break

If you're living at home you can save your Dole certainly, that I do agree with.

Not every parent is going to loan someone money and if they do, it will only be a low sum naturally.

Not everyone will get a loan, it entirely depends on that person circumstances. Also these are the kinds of people you are on about, essentially, "wasters".

If you have been recruited to a good paying professional job in Dublin then you should be fine all things considered.

If you're moving from Ballyhack looking for a minimum wage job you will struggle. Your best bet then would be the commuter belt towns, even then you will pay well for very little.

You don't seem to be able to grasp that the rental sector has changed dramatically since your time - unless you have an extremely well paid job with some kind of advancement you are going to struggle almost to the point of it being useless.

As for the people who left the country to find work? I'd imagine they saved up their dole/savings and rightly got out of dodge when the **** hit the fan. Also many would have connections in these places already to make the transition smoother. It's what I did a few years later.

You don't have to go to Dublin.

valoren

Finished top of his class, got a masters but the guy clearly has a confused locus of control. Externally, It's the economy, the politics, the austerity. Internally, he had the intelligence to realise that he needed to move and he found work. He has created an outlet for his creativity with a new play. From reading the meandering article, my overriding questions are "what do you want" and “what was the point of the article beyond a plug for the new play with tick-the-box known social issues”?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Shane Fit Thermos wrote: »

It's strange that a professional writer (not to mention the Irish Times's copy editor) doesn't know the difference between "plaintiff" and "plaintive." She also doesn't seem to know that the original Lehman Brothers established their business in the 1840s and thus weren't around in 2008.

I don't think the article necessarily implies that.

Church on Tuesday

Ficheall wrote: »

The sooner this myth is dispelled, the better. You almost have to go out of your way not to get a degree.

If you want to get a good mark on your degree you won't get it just by winging it.

Sure, anybody can just show up do the bare minimum and get a pass/merit degree at the end of it. Won't be much use to you though.

cloudatlas

Assetbacked wrote: »

Today's whinger, Alice Murphy who is living in Sydney.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/irishwoman-in-australia-i-want-to-return-home-but-i-m-frightened-1.4163649

Her instagram is her arse on show every two photos.

I thought old nuns would struggle to use boards.ie

cloudatlas

[Deleted User] wrote: »

arah would you stop, how did you get there from what was posted?

art is lovely. but dont go into it if youre going to moan about your prospects afterwards.

people dont work in jobs that pay because theyre all great bloody craic, and jobs that are hobbies tend not to pay.

thats life.

The guy in the article managed to pull it off and get a job based on what he enjoyed. Rather have a chat with him in a bar than a lot of corporate drone types.

Ficheall

Ficheall wrote:

The sooner this myth is dispelled, the better. You almost have to go out of your way not to get a degree

That really depends on the person.. I failed my freshman year of Computer science (1999). Used to get horrible migraines from the older screens, and I honestly couldn't build up enough interest in learning comp languages that nobody used anymore. 11 exams, failed 8. Repeated, passed 5, and failed the exams I passed the first time around. Naturally.

I switched to Financial Management. Failed three exams, repeated and passed, in the first year. Second year, failed the same three exams, repeated, and failed. Didn't get into the diploma part of the degree, went and worked for a year, came back and passed my Diploma. Bare pass. No access to the degree.

Then I went working.. and found I could get decent jobs with just a diploma. Now, I have a Honors degree, MBA, and a Bachelor in Psychology. Going back for another Masters soon, and aiming for a PHD.

University is not for everyone. Or at least, not everyone is ready for university when they enter it. I needed to develop alternative methods for learning and study (which were suitable for my type of intelligence) that I wasn't taught in Secondary school or in University itself.

So, no. You don't need to work at failing a Uni degree.

cloudatlas

cloudatlas wrote: »

The guy in the article managed to pull it off and get a job based on what he enjoyed. Rather have a chat with him in a bar than a lot of corporate drone types.

its gas how you think your whinging about your bugbear is noble and worthy but you are so spiteful about anyone moaning about THE GUY WHO WENT TO THE TIMES TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LIKELY CONSEQUENCES OF HIS OWN LIFE CHOICES

In fairness.. anyone that wants to be a playwright as opposed to writing for tv or whatever in this day and age just has notions..

cloudatlas

[Deleted User] wrote: »

its gas how you think your whinging about your bugbear is noble and worthy but you are so spiteful about anyone moaning about THE GUY WHO WENT TO THE TIMES TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LIKELY CONSEQUENCES OF HIS OWN LIFE CHOICES

AHHHHHHHH CAN YOU HEAR ME?! Likely consequences of an economic crisis and the fact that he grew up in a rural area wow what a total idiot I mean he read the situation and actively sought to change it, the pr1ck! Good on you, heaven forfend people who’ve actually worked in the arts and humanities sector endeavour to explain the situation to people who have no experience of it. Thanks FoR POINTING THAT OUT!

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness.. anyone that wants to be a playwright as opposed to writing for tv or whatever in this day and age just has notions..

Wow...you just unironically described someone as having 'notions'

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Ha, ha.

I find these threads charming in a mind-numbingly irritating way.

They typify Ireland's hatred of the "saints and scholars" roots we come from. If you're jealous because people are paying attention to him and he's more talented than you, why don't you just make yourself better and ask yourself why you're so mediocre that you can settle for just doing something you hate?

Anyone who appreciates the Arts will understand that it's about letting other people; their experience, their passion and their flaws, into your own life. If you can't look at him and be a bit stirred into sadness that he had to leave his home to thrive - ask yourself what's marketable about him abroad? What about his niche interests non-Irish people?

The bigger pool of minds is bound to be a factor. But it's also because they don't necessarily want to BE him, with his seemingly cushy enjoyable lifestyle, where he's not beholden to a corporate overlord. Wouldn't you love it.

So stop being jealous of him and just do it if you have a modicum of talent, you chicken!

(edit: just spotted that the OP is banned. I hope it's because he tried to pursue his dreams of self-expression right here and was suppressed by jealous forum police!)

nkl12xtw5goz70

Ensley Plump Segregation wrote: »

Anyone who appreciates the Arts will understand that it's about letting other people; their experience, their passion and their flaws, into your own life. If you can't look at him and be a bit stirred into sadness that he had to leave his home to thrive - ask yourself what's marketable about him abroad? What about his niche interests non-Irish people?

The bigger pool of minds is bound to be a factor. But it's also because they don't necessarily want to BE him, with his seemingly cushy enjoyable lifestyle, where he's not beholden to a corporate overlord. Wouldn't you love it.

Not only does his play — all about "austerity economics" and "forced emigration" — sound like the stage version of a People Before Profit manifesto, it's also hopelessly out of date: Ireland has been the fastest-growing economy in Europe for the fifth year running, the economy is at full employment, and the country is generally doing well.

If he was on the dole in the UK, he'd know all about "austerity economics." The dole payment there is £73.10 (€86) per week, versus €203 per week in Ireland. If he went to some towns and cities in the north of England and Scotland, he'd find levels of poverty that just don't exist in Ireland — and that are likely to get worse post-Brexit.

He does state in the article that he has a well-paid part-time job and writes on the side. So I assume there's a "corporate overlord" in the picture somewhere.

is_that_so

Life really doesn't have to give you anything, you work at it and if what you are doing is not having the right effect you change it. TBH that chap in the article sounds like he'd rather be a starving artist in Paris and that's fine but put all that angst into a book. He also self-evaluates far too much and a whole lot of it is very negative. I actually don't get the country forced me to emigrate line as a way of thinking. Sure economic challenges may have made you feel you needed to go somewhere but that's part of an adventure. Yes, you miss people and might prefer to be at home but all that introspection and blaming others just means you are not living your life where you are.

nkl12xtw5goz70

is_that_so wrote: »

I actually don't get the country forced me to emigrate line as a way of thinking.

His country educated him for free all the way to master's level. I daresay there were many ways he could have made a living in Co. Clare — from writing and editing work, to giving English grinds, to teaching theatre workshops to kids. A little bit of imagination and entrepreneurship goes a long way.

Ficheall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That really depends on the person.. I failed my freshman year of Computer science (1999). Used to get horrible migraines from the older screens, and I honestly couldn't build up enough interest in learning comp languages that nobody used anymore. 11 exams, failed 8. Repeated, passed 5, and failed the exams I passed the first time around. Naturally.

I switched to Financial Management. Failed three exams, repeated and passed, in the first year. Second year, failed the same three exams, repeated, and failed. Didn't get into the diploma part of the degree, went and worked for a year, came back and passed my Diploma. Bare pass. No access to the degree.

Then I went working.. and found I could get decent jobs with just a diploma. Now, I have a Honors degree, MBA, and a Bachelor in Psychology. Going back for another Masters soon, and aiming for a PHD.

University is not for everyone. Or at least, not everyone is ready for university when they enter it. I needed to develop alternative methods for learning and study (which were suitable for my type of intelligence) that I wasn't taught in Secondary school or in University itself.

So, no. You don't need to work at failing a Uni degree.

I have no doubt that twenty years ago it was more difficult not to get a degree. And I'm sure even now there are very exceptional cases.
But nowadays universities bend over backwards to get people through, because it's so much better for their business. If you fail people because they can't do the work, your line manager will come and tell you to try harder to pass them. I've lectured to teachers who failed their exams abysmally, but will still have been passed at review and gone on to teach their own students.
And I too have "benefited" from the lenient system for both my degree and phd. People complain about the LC being dumbed down (and yes, there are still people who fail that too), but uni is every bit as bad.

And I am in no way trying to disrespect your intelligence - I believe I'm a reasonably smart guy too, but that doesn't mean I deserved my degree.

is_that_so

Shane Fit Thermos wrote: »

His country educated him for free all the way to master's level. I daresay there were many ways he could have made a living in Co. Clare — from writing and editing work, to giving English grinds, to teaching theatre workshops to kids. A little bit of imagination and entrepreneurship goes a long way.

This is my concern about that generation, that there really is a serious lack of resilience and an inability to put things into perspective. There are times when people just have to soldier on without exercising the need to complain about it.

Feisar

I thought west Cork/Kerry/Claire was full of artist types?

nkl12xtw5goz70

is_that_so wrote: »

This is my concern about that generation, that there really is a serious lack of resilience and an inability to put things into perspective. There are times when people just have to soldier on without exercising the need to complain about it.

I agree. If he was 24 in 2009, per his article, he was born around 1985, and was still in primary school when the boom started. So he's not of a generation that would have known anything resembling genuine hardship and struggle. He grew up in a country full of opportunity and money, got a college education for free, and probably didn't worry too much about his future before his mid-20s — because, before that, anybody who wanted a job could get one.

When the economy took a temporary downturn, he wasn't prepared for it, and neither were any of the other so-called "Celtic cubs." It was easier to run off to another country such as Australia that re-created the ambiance of Celtic Tiger Ireland than to stay at home and figure something out.

ZV Yoda

valoren wrote: »

Finished top of his class, got a masters but the guy clearly has a confused locus of control. Externally, It's the economy, the politics, the austerity. Internally, he had the intelligence to realise that he needed to move and he found work. He has created an outlet for his creativity with a new play. From reading the meandering article, my overriding questions are "what do you want" and “what was the point of the article beyond a plug for the new play with tick-the-box known social issues”?

Exactly - well said!

Fair play to him for sticking at it & getting a job in the arts. I was just left wondering what was the point of the article. It seems to me he just did what needed to do... i.e. moved to where there was a market for his skills, started with min wage job and cheap accommodation, then moved up the ladder and got on with his career. It's not rocket science!

I can't understand all the arm wringing & whinging on this thread.

topper75

is_that_so wrote: »

This is my concern about that generation, that there really is a serious lack of resilience and an inability to put things into perspective. There are times when people just have to soldier on without exercising the need to complain about it.

There must be SOME people out there amongst our youth with resilience and the ability to soldier on.

Otherwise we are done for as a society.

Ficheall

Ficheall wrote: »

And I am in no way trying to disrespect your intelligence - I believe I'm a reasonably smart guy too, but that doesn't mean I deserved my degree.

Oh, I know.... University degrees in many disciplines have decreased in difficulty, both due to the desire for graduates (better funding), and political considerations (more female graduates, minorities, etc), all connected to more graduations..

However, that's a broad statement. I lecture. On average, I fail between 15-30 percent of my classes. It's not that I go looking for people to fail, but I find that many students don't take classes seriously. It's one thing to have fun in class, it's another thing to not commit yourself at all. The universities I work for, all have preferences for passing students, but they'll accept my judgement because I'll walk if they don't.

I definitely deserve my degrees. Why? Because university degrees in many disciplines are just... meh. My Financial management degree comes from Ireland and Australia... and it's still out of date, narrow focus, and not up to industry standards for employment.

Even though I work at university level, for business related courses, I think most people are better off with self-study, and avoiding Universities entirely... or they will be once the employers accept that more. Which they're already accepting but it's a slow movement away from institutionalized approval.

As for intelligence. I'm pretty dumb. I'm just smarter than most people I've encountered.:pac:

Gmol

shesty wrote: »

It was 2009.
Nobody could get a job anywhere.
Including engineers.
I see he is a playwright now, and that is not exactly the easiest of paths regardless of the economy.

Surprised he couldn't get a position as a Playwright in the Playwright district in rural Clare

cloudatlas

Gmol wrote: »

Surprised he couldn't get a position as a Playwright in the Playwright district in rural Clare

No, he must fit the status quo, become an accountant get a mortgage on a big house with a garden, two cars.

This is the way.