Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

Idbatterim

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Ok other than to chastise my 50/FIFTY, what do you mean by the above? can you explain?

Yes. People earning over35,000 who are the working poor, certainly in Dublin , pay a marginal tax rate of fifty percent. Meanwhile the rest of the population claim they can’t afford to pay for anything. Can’t afford increased carbon taxes , No water charges ,as good as no property tax.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yes. People earning over35,000 who are the working poor, certainly in Dublin , pay a marginal tax rate of fifty percent. Meanwhile the rest of the population claim they can’t afford to pay for anything. Can’t afford increased carbon taxes , No water charges ,as good as no property tax.

you havent provided any justification for that figure tho

Tacitus Kilgore

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yes. People earning over35,000 who are the working poor, certainly in Dublin , pay a marginal tax rate of fifty percent. Meanwhile the rest of the population claim they can’t afford to pay for anything. Can’t afford increased carbon taxes , No water charges ,as good as no property tax.

Not according to my figures, would you care to show yours i am very intriguied

Is there a higher tax rate in Dublin compared to other regions?

Strumms

Sinn Fein won’t be good for this country...

They lack the experience to be in government.

They are still too cosy and intertwined with terrorists, the IRA.

Their decision making will be influenced by their loyalty to their ‘supporters’.

Their decision making at times WILL be made by unelected militaristic individuals.

Critics of FF/FG/Labour... say what you like but they have all stopped short of endorsing murder and violence to further their aims. They have never organized kneecappings, threats or violence to influence behaviors.

Be careful what you wish for, Sinn Fein and their support base have not changed, murder while seen as objectionable to further aims in the current climate is of course to be welcomed but violence, intimidation and just the grimy cloak and dagger modus operandi and the still close relationships and allegiances to murderers and criminals in their ranks and beyond that these kinds of individuals actively value make or should make them unelectable for the duration.

James Brown

Strumms wrote: »

Sinn Fein won’t be good for this country...

They lack the experience to be in government.

They are still too cosy and intertwined with terrorists, the IRA.

Their decision making will be influenced by their loyalty to their ‘supporters’.

Their decision making at times WILL be made by unelected militaristic individuals.

Critics of FF/FG/Labour... say what you like but they have all stopped short of endorsing murder and violence to further their aims. They have never organized kneecappings, threats or violence to influence behaviors.

Be careful what you wish for, Sinn Fein and their support base have not changed, murder while seen as objectionable to further aims in the current climate is of course to be welcomed but violence, intimidation and just the grimy cloak and dagger modus operandi and the still close relationships and allegiances to murderers and criminals in their ranks and beyond that these kinds of individuals actively value make or should make them unelectable for the duration.

I can see why Charlie Tan-again might be concerned Have your heard of the GFA? Are you aware despite FG, Ireland isn't under the U.K.?
Back to stuffing the pockets of foreign 'investors' feeding off the housing crisis with tax payer money so...

Plumbthedepths

Strumms wrote: »

Their decision making will be influenced by their loyalty to their ‘supporters’.

Fully get your issue with SF, but do you seriously believe the other parties are not beholden to supporters?
Even wonder how its strange Denis O Brien gets so many state contracts whilst FG are in government despite a tribunals negative finding against him. Have you forgotten FFs Galway tent?
Labour of course had a few lads in there that
knew how to print money ( they do work for the central bank though).

Idbatterim

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Not according to my figures, would you care to show yours i am very intriguied

Is there a higher tax rate in Dublin compared to other regions?

The cost of living in Dublin is higher

Mad_maxx

joe40 wrote: »

What is the situation in other countries especially EU countries in relation to non jury trials.
The special criminal court seems like some kind of sacred cow that can't be touched or criticised in any way, by our political class.
In fact it has been criticised by the UN and amnesty among others.

if the U.N and Amnesty international have a problem with something , im 100% sure im in favour of it

buried

Strumms wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for, Sinn Fein and their support base have not changed, murder while seen as objectionable to further aims in the current climate is of course to be welcomed but violence, intimidation and just the grimy cloak and dagger modus operandi and the still close relationships and allegiances to murderers and criminals in their ranks and beyond that these kinds of individuals actively value make or should make them unelectable for the duration.

Violence and intimidation? We've got numerous FF/FG governments that oversaw a whole raft of violence and intimidation produced by the police force they and their various ministers of justices were in control of the last 40 years. You had police intimidate and make the lives of the McBrearty family an absolute total Hellscape. We've recently had the governments bent police force intimidate and terrorise one of their own who was actually trying to do his job.
FF and FG governments were in control while all this was happening. Going by your logic, this equally makes those parties unelectable too, no?

Mad_maxx

buried wrote: »

Violence and intimidation? We've got numerous FF/FG governments that oversaw a whole raft of violence and intimidation produced by the police force they and their various ministers of justices were in control of the last 40 years. You had police intimidate and make the lives of the McBrearty family an absolute total Hellscape. We've recently had the governments bent police force intimidate and terrorise one of their own who was actually trying to do his job.
FF and FG governments were in control while all this was happening. Going by your logic, this equally makes those parties unelectable too, no?

you hardly think the government were behind the smear campaign against maurice mc cabe , do you ?

the governments down the years have had a policy of taking the top brass of AGS at face value , the minister for justice is briefed by the commissioner , only for maurice mc cabe was so strong and with help from claire daly and mick wallace etc in highlighting the scandal in the dail , the taoiseach of any party would never know

the guards were given free reign by all governments down the years and the media as well but to say the government were directly responsible for the campaign against mc cabe is false

Strumms

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Fully get your issue with SF, but do you seriously believe the other parties are not beholden to supporters?
Even wonder how its strange Denis O Brien gets so many state contracts whilst FG are in government despite a tribunals negative finding against him. Have you forgotten FFs Galway tent?
Labour of course had a few lads in there that
knew how to print money ( they do work for the central bank though).

I’ve forgotten none of it, corruption and dodgy dealings certainly, it’s abhorrent and to be criticized but it’s not even in the same league as what the Sinn Fein mob got up to...

When Garda Gerry McCabe was murdered in cold blood, doing his job, Sinn Fein refused to condemn the murder, the then ‘Vice President’ of the rabble Pat Doherty outrightly refused to condemn it.

So when public servants while in the action and duty of carrying out their jobs are murdered in cold blood by criminals and terrorists this rabble have their first loyalty to their criminal and terrorist mates, not innocent victims murdered in cold blood going about their work, I don’t want them in any sort of power, responsibility or authority in this state. Because Mary Lou is more educated, more eloquent and less firebrand than her predecessors, her ultimate loyalty is still first and foremost to those filthy, vile and abhorrent individuals hidden in the shadows and the enemies of every right thinking democrat in this state.

Leopards don’t change their spots, terrorist sympathizers and enablers have no place in decision making in this state.

buried

Mad_maxx wrote: »

you hardly think the government were behind the smear campaign against maurice mc cabe , do you ?

the governments down the years have had a policy of taking the top brass of AGS at face value , the minister for justice is briefed by the commissioner , only for maurice mc cabe was so strong and with help from claire daly and mick wallace etc in highlighting the scandal in the dail , the taoiseach of any party would never know

the guards were given free reign by all governments down the years and the media as well but to say the government were directly responsible for the campaign against mc cabe is false

Well what the hell is the point in having a minister for "justice" then if they are just going to hand over free reign, total power to a bunch of bent criminals in their ranks that they are supposedly responsible for? The fact they gave this "free reign", the fact they took a policy of just taking some gadges word "at face value" shows exactly how absolutely pathetic and useless the whole set-up is! Nobody held responsible, nobody held accountable, nobody looses their gold pensions, all the people get is a bunch of tribunals to make more greasy cash for solicitor firms. You want to hold SF to some sort of morality account, well then you better start doing it to the rest of them too.

smelly sock

Rte currently doing a hatchet job over the quinn murder.

Nothing about FFG driving thousands to suicide and having no financial future.

Didnt Bertie make comments about Quinn being a criminal after the murder also.

Idbatterim

“ could sf actually run then country ? “ maybe. Can ffg ? Lol! Lol!

smelly sock

Idbatterim wrote: »

“ could sf actually run then country ? “ maybe. Can ffg ? Lol! Lol!

You wonder how Mickey Martin keeps a straight face talking about the economy. Priceless.

Granny15

buried wrote: »

Violence and intimidation? We've got numerous FF/FG governments that oversaw a whole raft of violence and intimidation produced by the police force they and their various ministers of justices were in control of the last 40 years. You had police intimidate and make the lives of the McBrearty family an absolute total Hellscape. We've recently had the governments bent police force intimidate and terrorise one of their own who was actually trying to do his job.
FF and FG governments were in control while all this was happening. Going by your logic, this equally makes those parties unelectable too, no?

Forget what the parties have done. Look at the supporters of them or at least the antiSF crowd on here. Posting all day on an online forum while the rest of the population are breaking their asses working for the man. They can’t post online all day like these “hard workers”. Look at what they post insults and personal attacks. Fear mongers saying SF have never been in power they will blow up the economy. All the while not realising that very stance makes them look like entitled elitist who count themselves entitled to rule?

imme

Does anyone have anything they want Sinn fein to apologise for, it would seem to be the right time,

They're apologising for all sorts at the moment.

smelly sock

imme wrote: »

Does anyone have anything they want Sinn fein to apologise for, it would seem to be the right time,

They're apologising for all sorts at the moment.

Something FF FG never do.

rdwight

imme wrote: »

Does anyone have anything they want Sinn fein to apologise for, it would seem to be the right time,

They're apologising for all sorts at the moment.

smelly sock wrote: »

Something FF FG never do.

In all fairness, it took Bertie Ahern about a month in 2008 to apologise for implying Paul Quinn was involved in criminality. It's taken SF twelve years and huge pressure to do the same.

smelly sock

rdwight wrote: »

In all fairness, it took Bertie Ahern about a month in 2008 to apologise for implying Paul Quinn was involved in criminality. It's taken SF twelve years and huge pressure to do the same.

Oh thats ok that Bertie implicated him. As long as he apologised. The UUP also implied he was involved on criminality.

Maewyn Succat

Strumms wrote: »

I’ve forgotten none of it, corruption and dodgy dealings certainly, it’s abhorrent and to be criticized but it’s not even in the same league as what the Sinn Fein mob got up to...

When Garda Gerry McCabe was murdered in cold blood, doing his job, Sinn Fein refused to condemn the murder, the then ‘Vice President’ of the rabble Pat Doherty outrightly refused to condemn it.

So when public servants while in the action and duty of carrying out their jobs are murdered in cold blood by criminals and terrorists this rabble have their first loyalty to their criminal and terrorist mates, not innocent victims murdered in cold blood going about their work, I don’t want them in any sort of power, responsibility or authority in this state. Because Mary Lou is more educated, more eloquent and less firebrand than her predecessors, her ultimate loyalty is still first and foremost to those filthy, vile and abhorrent individuals hidden in the shadows and the enemies of every right thinking democrat in this state.

Leopards don’t change their spots, terrorist sympathizers and enablers have no place in decision making in this state.

Sinn Fein even have Gerry McCabe's killer's estranged wife running as a candidate. She met and married him while he was in prison for the murder. Even though they are estranged and he also attempted to murder her the link to the IRA is something I would not be able to see past. What kind of person marries an IRA member convicted of killing an on duty guard?

Granny15

Granny15 wrote: »

Forget what the parties have done. Look at the supporters of them or at least the antiSF crowd on here. Posting all day on an online forum while the rest of the population are breaking their asses working for the man. They can’t post online all day like these “hard workers”. Look at what they post insults and personal attacks. Fear mongers saying SF have never been in power they will blow up the economy. All the while not realising that very stance makes them look like entitled elitist who count themselves entitled to rule?

you cant be serious, the place is absolutely jammed with shinnerbo- excuse me-

high volume "i dont support SF myself but i cannot criticise them and anyway FFG ......"

- posters, and has been for years

youd have to be blind or desperate *not* to see it

smelly sock

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Sinn Fein even have Gerry McCabe's killer's estranged wife running as a candidate. She met and married him while he was in prison for the murder. Even though they are estranged and he also attempted to murder her the link to the IRA is something I would not be able to see past. What kind of person marries an IRA member convicted of killing an on duty guard?

Keep going. Keep trying.

What kind of voter votes for FF. With Mickey Martin at wheel when he destroyed hundreds of thousamds of lives. Drove countless youngsters out of the country. Drove hundreds of thousands into Mortgage arrears which they are still in. Who introduced the temporary USC. Or FG. Who over saw women dying during the ongoing cervical travesty. Who cut the carers grant over night. Invited in vulture funds to buy homes from under youngsters and price them out of the market.

I wont be voting for that again.

Maewyn Succat

smelly sock wrote: »

Keep going. Keep trying.

What kind of voter votes for FF. With Mickey Martin at wheel when he destroyed hundreds of thousamds of lives. Drove countless youngsters out of the country. Drove hundreds of thousands into Mortgage arrears which they are still in. Who introduced the temporary USC. Or FG. Who over saw women dying during the ongoing cervical travesty. Who cut the carers grant over night. Invited in vulture funds to buy homes from under youngsters and price them out of the market.

I wont be voting for that again.

I'm not try to defend FF but are you really trying to blame the minister for enterprise, trade and employment for all of that?

smelly sock

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

I'm not try to defend FF but are you really trying to blame the minister for enterprise, trade and employment for all of that?

The man was on cabinet when they destoryed the country. Id say he has to shoulder some of the blame yes.

Mad_maxx

buried wrote: »

Well what the hell is the point in having a minister for "justice" then if they are just going to hand over free reign, total power to a bunch of bent criminals in their ranks that they are supposedly responsible for? The fact they gave this "free reign", the fact they took a policy of just taking some gadges word "at face value" shows exactly how absolutely pathetic and useless the whole set-up is! Nobody held responsible, nobody held accountable, nobody looses their gold pensions, all the people get is a bunch of tribunals to make more greasy cash for solicitor firms. You want to hold SF to some sort of morality account, well then you better start doing it to the rest of them too.

Every government showed the same unconditional trust towards AGS down the years, hopefully the Maurice mc cabe saga has changed things

Maewyn Succat

smelly sock wrote: »

The man was on cabinet when they destoryed the country. Id say he has to shoulder some of the blame yes.

Some but not all as you seemed to suggest in your previous post when you said he was at the wheel.

Do you think the country would have faired better under a Sinn Fein government back then?

smelly sock

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Some but not all as you seemed to suggest in your previous post when you said he was at the wheel.

Do you think the country would have faired better under a Sinn Fein government back then?

I think the question is do we want more of the same. More of FFG policies.

FF ruined the country and destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives. They need to own that.

buried

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Every government showed the same unconditional trust towards AGS down the years, hopefully the Maurice mc cabe saga has changed things

You can't pick and choose what sort of intimidation is acceptable, or make any excuse for it, if your ultimate argument is that any sort of intimidation is not acceptable anywhere. Deal with the actual dirt in your own house first before you start looking for dirt that's in other peoples houses.

Living in the hope that things will change while you keep putting the same people in charge doesn't work. People said the same thing about "hoping things will change" after the Morris tribunal. Fat lot of good it did. The next one was arguably worse because they ultimately seeked to literally destroy one of their own.

smurgen

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Some but not all as you seemed to suggest in your previous post when you said he was at the wheel.

Do you think the country would have faired better under a Sinn Fein government back then?

Why deal in hypothetical situations when we know for sure FF absolutely decimated the country?