Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

Plumbthedepths

Amazed to see an article in the Indo not in full attack mode.


https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/mary-lou-for-taoiseach-how-sinn-fein-could-form-our-next-government-if-poll-support-holds-38934708.html

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

I'm not avoiding the point. Probably the same for all parties. But are SF not supposed to be an improvement? Often when SF are criticised we get "FG did similar". I've a feeling if FG or FF did similar the usual folks would be creaming themselves with glee. (Not aimed at you).

Also any comment on the economic policies? Which are far more important IMO.

We don't know if SF will be an improvement or not. To decide that, they have to be given a chance in government and as I said before I am happy to do that this time. I want to see them in coalition, that is the next step for them. The Greens, Labour and others all get this chance.

Their economic policy is no more scary than other economic policy we have seen delivered in the last 20 years.
I don't think their manifesto is anything near what they will be able to deliver by the way, but then that is my belief (from experience) about ALL party manifesto's.

Plumbthedepths

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I'd say both of them will be out of a job, I would consider the like of Peter Casey's support as a blip rather than the start of a trend (well, hopefully anyway)

Verona is not a sitting TD so how can she be out of a job? Casey not a TD and won't be.
Grealish went off on a rant about Nigerians.

sbsquarepants

christy c wrote: »

Also any comment on the economic policies? Which are far more important IMO.

Yes. Fianna Fail quite recently actually, not hypothetically, actually bankrupted the country. We are all actually, again not hypothetically, we are actually being milked to foot the bill. We will collectively be paying it off until long after both mine and your deaths.

Tacitus Kilgore

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Verona is not a sitting TD so how can she be out of a job? Casey not a TD and won't be.
Grealish went off on a rant about Nigerians.

Jesus christ man you know I meant they won't get a seat.

I know what Grealish said.

I know Casey is not a td, he got a lot of support from hate filled gob****es.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Their economic policy is no more scary than other economic policy we have seen delivered in the last 20 years.
I don't think their manifesto is anything near what they will be able to deliver by the way, but then that is my belief (from experience) about ALL party manifesto's.

Their cheerleading of Syriza was quite scary IMO, their wanting to reduce the pension age and the demographics "looking after themselves" is quite scary, along with wanting to slash the tax base.

Anyway I do hope you're right and that they won't be able to deliver their promises, because a lot of them make Bertie look prudent.

Yurt2

christy c wrote: »

This is a thread about SF, and I responded after someone said Pearse was intelligent. Whether contentious or not, doesn't mean it's a good idea to reduce it. And I believe it's idiotic to want to reduce the age, regardless of which party member says otherwise.

You don't get to say what gets to go in this thread or doesn't.

And if you're going to frame someone as an idiot for a particular stance on pensions, you best get used to people pointing out some of your political pals your wearing your fingers raw on a keyboard for happen to hold the same stance.

Smoke that you snark.

#that'sjustthewayitis

Plumbthedepths

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Jesus christ man you know I meant they won't get a seat.

I know what Grealish said.

I know Casey is not a td, he got a lot of support from hate filled gob****es.

Actually i don't as I told you Verona is polling very well locally, she is in contention for a seat.
The last election Casey stood for he got almost 250,000 votes, all hate filled g*b****es?

Field east

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FF were the main government party '07 to '11 , how did that work out? '11 to '16 FG were in office as the main party one of the main promises I remember being broken was" not another red cent to the banks". Have no time for SF but if you are claiming SF will wreck the gaff and break promises FG/FF already have form for this.

The words ‘cherrypicking’, ‘one trick pony’, ‘ suits my agenda’, etc, etc, etc, etc, comes to mind.

christy c

Yurt! wrote: »

You don't get to say what gets to go in this thread or doesn't.

And if you're going to frame someone as an idiot for a particular stance on pensions, you best get used to people pointing out some of your political pals your wearing your fingers raw on a keyboard for happen to hold the same stance.

Smoke that you snark.

#that'sjustthewayitis

I don't have any political pals, that's just your imagination. I vote for the best of a bad lot.

Even if you leave aside his wanting to reduce the pension age which is idiotic IMO, was the support of Syriza the actions of someone intelligent?

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

Their cheerleading of Syriza was quite scary IMO,

I get that they were empathic with Syriza. I don't get where they wanted to be Syriza here.
FG & FF cheerlead American aggression in the world by allowing the use of Shannon...that scares me too. Do I think FF & FG would lead us into a war with the US's enemies...no I don't.

their wanting to reduce the pension age and the demographics "looking after themselves" is quite scary, along with wanting to slash the tax base.

I thought they wanted to keep the pension age were it has always been?

Anyway I do hope you're right and that they won't be able to deliver their promises, because a lot of them make Bertie look prudent.

I am convinced they are genuine about delivering a fairer society for all here. Time, as far as my vote is concerned to give them a chance. They cannot do any worse in terms of fairness imo.

christy c

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I get that they were empathic with Syriza. I don't get where they wanted to be Syriza here.
FG & FF cheerlead American aggression in the world by allowing the use of Shannon...that scares me too. Do I think FF & FG would lead us into a war with the US's enemies...no I don't.



I thought they wanted to keep the pension age were it has always been?

Maybe that was the case with Syriza, but it seems very strange to me if that's what they were at. Flying over there to empathise but wanting a completely different approach here.

I don't really care about the Shannon thing so I won't respond.

The pension age talk is because of the time bomb coming down the tracks, the do nothing approach will not work.

Tacitus Kilgore

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually i don't as I told you Verona is polling very well locally, she is in contention for a seat.
The last election Casey stood for he got almost 250,000 votes, all hate filled g*b****es?

Jasus you'd row with yourself

Plumbthedepths

Just on the pension issue, it's not just SF that have an issue with the age increase Labour also has a problem with it too and most likely will be part of the new government. Much to the annoyance of FG it is an election issue and protests organised by the unions are in the planning stages.

Plumbthedepths

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Jasus you'd row with yourself

If you don't want to discuss something why are you here? You made comments and they were responded to. Get over yourself.

christy c

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just on the pension issue, it's not just SF that have an issue with the age increase Labour also has a problem with it too

Both of their problems with it are idiotic IMO. But SF are the 3rd largest party at least so that's why it would get more attention.

Tacitus Kilgore

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you don't want to discuss something why are you here? You made comments and they were responded to. Get over yourself.

I actually posted an anecdote from fb originally, then got dragged off kicking and screaming in a tangent with yourself.


Only joking, I just don't care enough :pac:

Field east

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Plus in truth people don't want the necessary reform required to "fix" health.

It's a very small country, everyone has a friend or relative in the HSE and no matter how overpaid that friend - relative is or obsolete their job is, if they are let go or wages reduced, we won't be pleased

It's not just consultants who are highly paid

This type of outlook, take, ethos or whatever you want to call it has a very significant influence on how the country is run, behaves , operates, etc ,etc. Taking it at another level - but the same principal applies- locals, lobby groups , Co. counselors, TDs, etc protesting over the closure of a local hospital/part of it even though it makes perfect sense to more centralize certain services so that a much higher standard can be provided. The past is littered with this kind of parish pump politics.
The continual very poor performance/ work ethic being condoned and the difficulty of doing anything about it - be they be teachers doctors, nurses, public service workers

ednwireland

christy c wrote: »

Their cheerleading of Syriza was quite scary IMO, their wanting to reduce the pension age and the demographics "looking after themselves" is quite scary, along with wanting to slash the tax base.

Anyway I do hope you're right and that they won't be able to deliver their promises, because a lot of them make Bertie look prudent.

yeh im not getting the massively increase public sector jobs, slash the tax base, a few taxes on the rich will pay for it all line.

i think that was tried before - how did that work out ??

is_that_so

Field east wrote: »

This type of outlook, take, ethos or whatever you want to call it has a very significant influence on how the country is run, behaves , operates, etc ,etc. Taking it at another level - but the same principal applies- locals, lobby groups , Co. counselors, TDs, etc protesting over the closure of a local hospital/part of it even though it makes perfect sense to more centralize certain services so that a much higher standard can be provided. The past is littered with this kind of parish pump politics.
The continual very poor performance/ work ethic being condoned and the difficulty of doing anything about it - be they be teachers doctors, nurses, public service workers

One word is now health - Slaintecare, regardless of who gets into government.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We don't know if SF will be an improvement or not. To decide that, they have to be given a chance in government

Maybe we should give Dustin the Turkey a term in Government in order to decide on his competence.

Because that's obviously the only way people will be able to decide if anyone's competent or not.

topmanamillion

The indo/Denis O'Brien have really been ramping up the anti Sinn Fein stuff over the last few days.
Two stories a day from them.

VM news had Micheál Martin on the other day and he wasn't challenged on any of his policies. The first couple of minutes went by with the theme of "Sinn Fein are awful, wouldn't you agree Micheál?"

bladespin

facehugger99 wrote: »

Maybe we should give Dustin the Turkey a term in Government in order to decide on his competence.

Because that's obviously the only way people will be able to decide if anyone's competent or not.

We tried that already, Bertie was ok (for a while).

Finty Lemon

Syriza should be a lesson learned.
Maduro in Venezuala on a whole other level.

Why do SF support both? Troubling.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

Both of their problems with it are idiotic IMO. But SF are the 3rd largest party at least so that's why it would get more attention.

I'm not sure idiotic is the right description tbh, when you reach 65, you've put in a hard slog tbh, what's wrong with being allowed to retire with dignity and some standard of comfort?

Is the country not due to increase mandatory pension contributions anyway?

Surely they can tailor payments to an individual depending on contributions made over their working life thus far, and if the age they wish to retire at?

I know revenue are pretty good at tailoring deductions owed to them, but maybe I'm being too optimistic/it's not possible.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm not sure idiotic is the right description tbh, when you reach 65, you've put in a hard slog tbh, what's wrong with being allowed to retire with dignity and some standard of comfort?

Is the country not due to increase mandatory pension contributions anyway?

Surely they can tailor payments to an individual depending on contributions made over their working life thus far, and if the age they wish to retire at?

I know revenue are pretty good at tailoring deductions owed to them, but maybe I'm being too optimistic/it's not possible.

No I agree, at 65 it's a lovely idea to retire, particularly if you started working in your early 20s.

But at the moment we have about 5 workers for every pensioner, by 2050 (I think) this is expected to reduce to 2 workers for every pensioner. That's why we need to take action and it was one of the positive things came out of our interaction with the Troika. Which is why I consider wanting to undo that as idiotic.

I probably sound like a stalker but did you say you are in your 30s? As am I, so we will have the luxury of paying increased taxes to fund the demographic change, and also likely to have a reduced pension by the time we retire.

tipptom

FF will beat FG by about 8 seats.

SF will hit about 26 seats

labour about 9 seats

Greens 5 seats

FF or FG will not be able to persuade enough independents etc to cobble up a government as they realise they are becoming toxic and their old die hard voters dyeing out after this election.

Any politician with any eye to the future election would be mad to touch them.

Confidence and supply again.

As you were!
LG

Rigor Mortis

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm not sure idiotic is the right description tbh, when you reach 65, you've put in a hard slog tbh, what's wrong with being allowed to retire with dignity and some standard of comfort?

Is the country not due to increase mandatory pension contributions anyway?

Surely they can tailor payments to an individual depending on contributions made over their working life thus far, and if the age they wish to retire at?

I know revenue are pretty good at tailoring deductions owed to them, but maybe I'm being too optimistic/it's not possible.

The scale of the shortfall is huge. Male life expectancy has risen by over 30 years in the last centuray. It has risen by 3 years in the last 8 years. New medical advances are keeping us alive to an age where not only can we not afford the pensions but we cannot afford the health implications.

The problem with the SF response is that it attempts to suggest that this is an unfair swipe at workers. We have a major issue, it needs to be addressed. Demographics will not solve it - demographics are and will make it far worse.

bladespin

I wonder what could be achieved (by any party) if they approached spending with a value orientated objective - it doesn't really matter which side we're talking about here they all seem to love throwing around money - it's possible that same money could be used for better things.

Children's hospitals, Bertie bowls, affordable housing starting above 500k etc etc.

is_that_so

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

The scale of the shortfall is huge. Male life expectancy has risen by over 30 years in the last centuray. It has risen by 3 years in the last 8 years. New medical advances are keeping us alive to an age where not only can we not afford the pensions but we cannot afford the health implications.

The problem with the SF response is that it attempts to suggest that this is an unfair swipe at workers. We have a major issue, it needs to be addressed. Demographics will not solve it - demographics are and will make it far worse.

As polls seem to suggest their target group is largely 18-40 and the difficulties they encounter. They've also made a play for the low paid. Both of these groups are fertile ground for tax cuts, abolition of taxes and the "unfair" increase in pension age.