Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

TuringBot47

Yurt! wrote: »

All questions one is entitled to make in the interrogation of any party's manifesto, but to say that Sinn Féin are communists or that the SF economic policy as outlined amounts to communism is complete tosh.

You're well versed in politics, you didn't even vaguely attempt to answer the question.

James Brown

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Yeah, like Paschal's plea for No.1's or maybe Leo's?

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1225701194103971840?s=20

That's pretty sad.

tipptom wrote: »

You got to say though if Labour grassroots had of ignored the big party beasts who knew it was their last cut at a ministry and stayed out of government with FG then they would have had an almighty shot at being the biggest party in the next election and could have led a decent government.

Instead they have become toxic with no other option but to elect Howlin as leader who seemed to make unforgiveable cuts on the weak alongside Noonan with great gutso for small money.

Its so bad now that Kelly should be leader but is hated so much by his fellow TDs that they wouldn't even let him stand for the leadership.

A party that could have been a great alternative to FF/FG is now reduced to a joke.

SF would be stark raving mad to go in with either of the two parties FG/FF now that they are in decline and both will be absolutely hated by all in the next election especially with their "cute hoor" voters diying off.

I agree, totally.
There was a lot of talk about sitting that one out but HQ wanted the power. They might have waltzed in afterwards.
Sadly people are selfish and as people get older and have assets, they'll be more inclined to go conservative. Ironically we've generations who will be living hand to mouth right up until death thanks to FG/FF, so when people see that it might change. Nobody wants to be working low income and renting nearing pension age.

liuqirae

[Q*********************************************************

James Brown

Sir Oxman wrote: »

A massive mistake by Labour in 2011.
I was heartbroken.

I quit around the same time Shortall did. I didn't make the papers

liuqirae

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Yurt2

TuringBot47 wrote: »

You're well versed in politics, you didn't even vaguely attempt to answer the question.

What, you want me to parse through the entire manifesto to tell you what I like and don't like? Are you actually interested?

No. I'm not ars*d.

Idbatterim

I got a very official letter earlier from Josepha Madigan, I wrote to her a while back about all of the increases given to peasants, while a worker earning just below the marginal rate, was given about a euro a week income tax cut, from a government that has done nothing but bang on about rewarding the early risers!

" I am writing to you as someone whom I have previously engaged with in relation to a particular issue or query. I will always do my utmost to represent your interests and advocate for you" and it goes on...

I strong disagree Josepha, if you had done that, you wouldnt be losing my vote. Instead you represented those, who will never vote for you :rolleyes:

McMurphy

Idbatterim wrote: »

I got a very official letter earlier from Josepha Madigan, I wrote to her a while back about all of the increases given to peasants, while a worker earning just below the marginal rate, was given about a euro a week income tax cut, from a government that has done nothing but bang on about rewarding the early risers!

" I am writing to you as someone whom I have previously engaged with in relation to a particular issue or query. I will always do my utmost to represent your interests and advocate for you" and it goes on...

I strong disagree Josepha, if you had done that, you wouldnt be losing my vote. Instead you represented those, who will never vote for you :rolleyes:

What are the chances she will be out on her ear?

partyguinness

Now, admittedly living in the UK I have been driven to distraction/insanity by Brexit and of course the GE in December so perhaps my finger has not been on the pulse but to be honest Ireland looks like a haven of civilised sanity compared to the **** show over here.

So I am struggling to see how FG and Leo are not coasting to victory looking from the outside.

Idbatterim

McMurphy wrote: »

What are the chances she will be out on her ear?

I honestly have no idea! Its actually surreal, they are out, not because of some massive scandal etc, no because of lack of money, but because they did FCUK all over the past nine years. This brexit thing was massively overplayed, some of their ministers have admitted this behind closed doors. It was Ireland leaving the EU FFS!

is_that_so

Idbatterim wrote: »

I honestly have no idea! Its actually surreal, they are out, not because of some massive scandal etc, no because of lack of money, but because they did FCUK all over the past nine years. This brexit thing was massively overplayed, some of their ministers have admitted this behind closed doors. It was Ireland leaving the EU FFS!

In Rathdown probably not. The Ross vote may drop but between herself and running mate, admittedly Shatter, they were on 30%. Even in around the level of recent polls she'll be comfortable in a 3 seater.

splinter65

partyguinness wrote: »

We are all SF at heart. Some are just still in denial.

I’m a Tory at heart.

tipptom

is_that_so wrote: »

The over 50s? Be a while until they die off. FF could also "solve" the housing crisis, which wouldn't be good for other parties.

Yeah.we all know how FF will solve housing.

Owen o Callaghan must be beside himself that Micky Martin will be back in government and probably leader.

Its a wonder when Pat Kenny and all the other interviewers were so hostile and aggressive with SF that they never tried to counterbalance it by asking Mickey about the 20k Owen gave him for FF in Cork and where Mickeys wife ran to Dublin with the cheque and deposited in her own account there.
Seem to remember poor old Pee Flynn getting an awful roasting for something very similar around that time about a big 50k cheque from a developer but at least himself and the wife kept it in Mayo.

Was a disgrace the way he was let away on the debate with saying he knew nothing about Bertie being corrupt before the election when bertie ran to the Aras on a Saturday night to avoid the tribunal on the Monday where everyone knew what was out there for years,of course Aengus Fanning editor of the Sunday Independent was the first person told of his intentions and RTE then shortly after that put Eoghan Harris from the Sunday Independent on the Lata Late Show to do a party political broadcast on behalf of FF.

FF get back in,Bertie nominates Harris to the Seanad and Bertie goes in to his election delayed tribunal where we hear about his housing developer friends bungs.

FF will be good for housing alright.

James Brown

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m a Tory at heart.

Ah reminded of my youth

tipptom wrote: »

Yeah.we all know how FF will solve housing.

Owen o Callaghan must be beside himself that Micky Martin will be back in government and probably leader.

Its a wonder when Pat Kenny and all the other interviewers were so hostile and aggressive with SF that they never tried to counterbalance it by asking Mickey about the 20k Owen gave him for FF in Cork and where Mickeys wife ran to Dublin with the cheque and deposited in her own account there.
Seem to remember poor old Pee Flynn getting an awful roasting for something very similar around that time about a big 50k cheque from a developer but at least himself and the wife kept it in Mayo.

Was a disgrace the way he was let away on the debate with saying he knew nothing about Bertie being corrupt before the election when bertie ran to the Aras on a Saturday night to avoid the tribunal on the Monday where everyone knew what was out there for years,of course Aengus Fanning editor of the Sunday Independent was the first person told of his intentions and RTE then shortly after that put Eoghan Harris from the Sunday Independent on the Lata Late Show to do a party political broadcast on behalf of FF.

FF get back in,Bertie nominates Harris to the Seanad and Bertie goes in to his election delayed tribunal where we hear about his housing developer friends bungs.

FF will be good for housing alright.

They really did the public a disservice IMO.
They should have gone to town on the crash, supporting FG, FG and the crises, crony builder pals, (FF), vulture fund inappropriate behaviour, (FG) and as much 'RA affiliated sh*te as they liked.

In simple terms at least if we build social and affordable people will be able to get a roof and that's all many of us can aspire to, or could have in the past.

TuringBot47

Yurt! wrote: »

What, you want me to parse through the entire manifesto to tell you what I like and don't like? Are you actually interested?

No. I'm not ars*d.

Not all all.

You said there were good points.
So I assumed you could easily name at least one from memory.
Wasn't looking for a journalist piece.

Yurt2

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Not all all.

You said there were good points.
So I assumed you could easily name at least one from memory.
Wasn't looking for a journalist piece.

Yeah..nah...

Hamsterchops

partyguinness wrote: »

Now, admittedly living in the UK I have been driven to distraction/insanity by Brexit and of course the GE in December so perhaps my finger has not been on the pulse but to be honest Ireland looks like a haven of civilised sanity compared to the **** show over here.

So I am struggling to see how FG and Leo are not coasting to victory looking from the outside.

That's a very interesting observation.
Tis often the case that what people see and feel at home is very different to what people observe from the outside.

So here we have Leo and Coveney steering a very steady & buoyant ship, the economy is thriving and business is doing very well indeed. BREXIT discussions are robust thanks to Simon Coveney and Helen McEnteee, yet many Irish people want to get rid of them ASAP!

Yes things aren't perfect for all the reasons already mentioned, lack of housing, health service issues etc, yet Ireland is booming and punching well above its weight, so what/who do we vote for?

Get rid of the current government lock stock & barrell, in favour of all "change" for a new Sinn Fein government led by Mary Lou?

I know which one I'll vote for.

FrancieBrady

partyguinness wrote: »

Now, admittedly living in the UK I have been driven to distraction/insanity by Brexit and of course the GE in December so perhaps my finger has not been on the pulse but to be honest Ireland looks like a haven of civilised sanity compared to the **** show over here.

So I am struggling to see how FG and Leo are not coasting to victory looking from the outside.

Wouldn't agree with everything he says here but food for thought maybe.

But Brexit altered the mood. Irish people disliked the way Brexiters disregarded Irish concerns. English nationalism has consequences far beyond Irish support for Scotland in this weekend’s Six Nations rugby match. At the margin, this may help Sinn Féin, but it’s not behind the surge.

Longer term, demography is destiny. The main parties are dying, literally. Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, who have dominated politics for 100 years, can claim only around 25 per cent support among the under-40s. Politically, New Ireland is up for grabs and Sinn Féin’s hat is in the ring.

https://www.ft.com/content/a87f5afe-48fe-11ea-aee2-9ddbdc86190d

James Brown

Hamsterchops wrote: »

That's a very interesting observation.
Tis often the case that what people see and feel at home is very different to what people observe from the outside.

So here we have Leo and Coveney steering a very steady & buoyant ship, the economy is thriving and business is doing very well indeed. BREXIT discussions are robust thanks to Simon Coveney and Helen McEnteee, yet many Irish people want to get rid of them ASAP!

So people just want to damage themselves by changing this because....?

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Yes things aren't perfect for all the reasons already mentioned, lack of housing, health service issues etc, yet Ireland is booming and punching well above its weight, so what/who do we vote for?

Get rid of the current government lock stock & barrell, in favour of all "change" for a new Sinn Fein government led by Mary Lou?

I know which one I'll vote for.

Are you being sarcastic?

Yurt2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with everything he says here but food for thought maybe.

https://www.ft.com/content/a87f5afe-48fe-11ea-
aee2-9ddbdc86190d

I think the penny only dropped in the last couple of weeks that housing couldn't be talked-down as an 'optics' problem by FG in particular. As in the people affected by it, by and large people 40 and under - are severely p*ssed off with it and are now a growing and assertive part of the electorate.


The old magic electoral formula of a few quid on the pension, a few quid for the public sector workers and the promise of a modest tax cut (that may or may not transpire) for everyone else just doesn't cut it any more.

schmoo2k

partyguinness wrote: »

Now, admittedly living in the UK I have been driven to distraction/insanity by Brexit and of course the GE in December so perhaps my finger has not been on the pulse but to be honest Ireland looks like a haven of civilised sanity compared to the **** show over here.

So I am struggling to see how FG and Leo are not coasting to victory looking from the outside.

IMO Leo plays very well on the international stage - I personally thought his handling of the media with the whole Brexit negotiations fiasco was very good.

But at home he (and FG) are in their own bubble removed from the reality on the ground.

...but this is the pattern, once in government our ministers seem to get lost in the "Yes Minster" of it all (very quickly) and after 8 years the people will want them out no matter what party it is...

tipptom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

That's a very interesting observation.
Tis often the case that what people see and feel at home is very different to what people observe from the outside.

So here we have Leo and Coveney steering a very steady & buoyant ship, the economy is thriving and business is doing very well indeed. BREXIT discussions are robust thanks to Simon Coveney and Helen McEnteee, yet many Irish people want to get rid of them ASAP!

Yes things aren't perfect for all the reasons already mentioned, lack of housing, health service issues etc, yet Ireland is booming and punching well above its weight, so what/who do we vote for?

Get rid of the current government lock stock & barrell, in favour of "change" with a new Sinn Fein government led by Mary Lou?

I know which one I'll vote for.

You do know that SF cant form a government?

As for Brexit discussions you can put in a couple of hamsters and they will do what a couple of silver spoon merchants taking over their fathers seats can do and the EU will do what they want anyway without listening to pixies.

Ireland is booming for the FG class after coming back from Japan and bunging a fellow a bit of cash to pick up their extortionate rent for a month and if the poor working class are dying on trollies or living on the streets, well so what.

Edgware

Sir Oxman wrote: »

A massive mistake by Labour in 2011.
I was heartbroken.

Labours massive mistake was pulling the plug on the FF labour coalition in the 90s.
They got two years out of F G Democratic Left and then ****ed out until 2011 missing the money years of the Celtic Tiger

James Brown

Yurt! wrote: »

I think the penny only dropped in the last couple of weeks that housing couldn't be talked-down as an 'optics' problem by FG in particular. As in the people affected by it, by and large people 40 and under - are severely p*ssed off with it and are now a growing and assertive part of the electorate.


The old magic electoral formula of a few quid on the pension, a few quid for the public sector workers and the promise of a modest tax cut (that may or may not transpire) for everyone else just doesn't cut it any more.

All working people could hope to work towards was one day owning a home. FG/FF are taking that away leaving new generations of renters unable to manage in some cases.

Snickers Man

is_that_so wrote: »

He was in SF once upon a time, long ago. Been at this lark since the 80s.

Ah no. He was in Sinn Fein the Workers' Party (Judaean People's Front) aka The Workers Party aka Democratic Left or as it now is The Labour Party. Not to be confused with the other Sinn Fein (People's Front of Judaea).

Idbatterim

has anything been achieved in this country other than nine years of talk? seriously WTF! all they had to do, to retain power, was make some progress! ITs absolutely mind blowing!

James Brown

Snickers Man wrote: »

Ah no. He was in Sinn Fein the Workers' Party (Judaean People's Front) aka The Workers Party aka Democratic Left or as it now is The Labour Party. Not to be confused with the other Sinn Fein (People's Front of Judaea).

Sounds like FF/FG.

Plumbthedepths

Hamsterchops wrote: »

That's a very interesting observation.
Tis often the case that what people see and feel at home is very different to what people observe from the outside.

So here we have Leo and Coveney steering a very steady & buoyant ship, the economy is thriving and business is doing very well indeed. BREXIT discussions are robust thanks to Simon Coveney and Helen McEnteee, yet many Irish people want to get rid of them ASAP!

Yes things aren't perfect for all the reasons already mentioned, lack of housing, health service issues etc, yet Ireland is booming and punching well above its weight, so what/who do we vote for?

Get rid of the current government lock stock & barrell, in favour of all "change" for a new Sinn Fein government led by Mary Lou?

I know which one I'll vote for.

Mary Lou can't lead the next government based on the number of candidates running for SF and the likely number that will be elected (25/30). Why do people persist in repeating this idiocy?

partyguinness

schmoo2k wrote: »

IMO Leo plays very well on the international stage - I personally thought his handling of the media with the whole Brexit negotiations fiasco was very good.

But at home he (and FG) are in their own bubble removed from the reality on the ground.

...but this is the pattern, once in government our ministers seem to get lost in the "Yes Minster" of it all (very quickly) and after 8 years the people will want them out no matter what party it is...

I would rather pull out my eyelids than vote FG at home but credit where it is due- Coveney, Leo etc all came across as a rock of sensibility in the UK media. Primarily by keeping their mouth shut and avoiding running battles.

TBH the bar was rock bottom when you had the Farages, BJ, Goves et al screaming and shouting at each other in the gutter and just the sheer brazen lies and untruths- they took it to a whole new level over here.

Larbre34

Idbatterim wrote: »

has anything been achieved in this country other than nine years of talk? seriously WTF! all they had to do, to retain power, was make some progress! ITs absolutely mind blowing!

Full employment, the current account back in the black and Ireland put at the centre of the EUs whole approach to Brexit.

People can be churlish and ignore these things, but without them there isn't even a conversation about anything else.