Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

almostover

Larbre34 wrote: »

Full employment, the current account back in the black and Ireland put at the centre of the EUs whole approach to Brexit.

People can be churlish and ignore these things, but without them there isn't even a conversation about anything else.

Three reasons why I'm voting FG tomorrow. They've been far from.oerfect but they've managed the economy, national debt and Brexit very well.

Given the polls this may be wishful thinking but I'd like to see a FG lead rainbow coalition with Labour, Soc Dems & the Greens and I'll be voting for that. A more socialist slant to the government may help on the housing and health front. But the psyche of the Irish public will have to change before those real progress can be made in those 2 areas.

shenanagans

almostover wrote: »

Three reasons why I'm voting FG tomorrow. They've been far from.oerfect but they've managed the economy, national debt and Brexit very well.

Given the polls this may be wishful thinking but I'd like to see a FG lead rainbow coalition with Labour, Soc Dems & the Greens and I'll be voting for that. A more socialist slant to the government may help on the housing and health front. But the psyche of the Irish public will have to change before those real progress can be made in those 2 areas.

Based on polls it's far more likely to be a FF lead coalition with Labour, Soc Dems & the Greens.

Idbatterim

there are SOME issues, they have done an ok job on, managing the economy etc, cant give them much credit, they just didnt do anything moronic. Brexit? meh, same outcome with anyone else doing negotiation I expect. But nine years on in dublin and not a single game changing transport scheme even under construction and they scrapped two that had gone through years of planning. WTF! Unacceptable!

Jinglejangle69

Idbatterim wrote: »

has anything been achieved in this country other than nine years of talk? seriously WTF! all they had to do, to retain power, was make some progress! ITs absolutely mind blowing!

Well a bailout of 200 billion saddled for generations certainly didn't happen again.

I'm certainly glad of that.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Well a bailout of 200 billion saddled for generations certainly didn't happen again.

I'm certainly glad of that.

yeah, the danger of the **** hitting the fan again, is in the next few years IMO and chances increase with FF at the helm

James Brown

almostover wrote: »

Three reasons why I'm voting FG tomorrow. They've been far from.oerfect but they've managed the economy, national debt and Brexit very well.

Given the polls this may be wishful thinking but I'd like to see a FG lead rainbow coalition with Labour, Soc Dems & the Greens and I'll be voting for that. A more socialist slant to the government may help on the housing and health front. But the psyche of the Irish public will have to change before those real progress can be made in those 2 areas.

Fair play.
The psyche of the Irish public didn't cause or exacerbate the problems, FG (FF) did. Is there some housing/health policy FG want to push but have been unable to or do you think they need parties with a socialist slant to force them to try a different approach, (meaning FG aren't capable and or willing themselves)?

maccored

Larbre34 wrote: »

Full employment, the current account back in the black and Ireland put at the centre of the EUs whole approach to Brexit.

People can be churlish and ignore these things, but without them there isn't even a conversation about anything else.

full employment in low paid jobs you mean? FG done great - thats why theres no houses, a collapsing health system, people cant afford to save etc. Great job alright

TuringBot47

maccored wrote: »

full employment in low paid jobs you mean?

What do you expect?
That low IQ, manual labour jobs get well paid?
You can't retrain an ex-factory worker to a science/finance or I.T. job that easily.

maccored wrote: »

FG done great - thats why theres no houses, a collapsing health system, people cant afford to save etc. Great job alright

FG had to clean up FF's complete destruction of the Irish finances.

FF were like a self destructive gambler who lost their job and remortgaged the house to pay off bad debts. Then FG had to pick up the pieces and try to start paying it off when they fooked off.

It's terrible that people can't see that, but then they say 50% of the people you meet are below average.

suicide_circus

maccored wrote: »

full employment in low paid jobs you mean? FG done great - thats why theres no houses, a collapsing health system, people cant afford to save etc. Great job alright

do you think a SF lead government would achieve a higher wage economy than a FG lead government ? by increasing tax on the rich is it? increasing tax on commercial property?

James Brown

TuringBot47 wrote: »

What do you expect?
That low IQ, manual labour jobs get well paid?
You can't retrain an ex-factory worker to a science/finance or I.T. job that easily.



FG had to clean up FF's complete destruction of the Irish finances.

FF were like a self destructive gambler who lost their job and remortgaged the house to pay off bad debts. Then FG had to pick up the pieces and try to start paying it off when they fooked off.

It's terrible that people can't see that, but then they say 50% of the people you meet are below average.

We got out a massive generational loan. All FG contributed to was IW/consultants/Siteserv deal, the housing crisis and letting health fester while breaking records in homelessness and hospital trolley numbers. The only cleaning up FG did was for vulture funds, TD landlord's and another sweet sweet deal or two for a pal.

maccored

TuringBot47 wrote: »

What do you expect?
That low IQ, manual labour jobs get well paid?
You can't retrain an ex-factory worker to a science/finance or I.T. job that easily.



FG had to clean up FF's complete destruction of the Irish finances.

FF were like a self destructive gambler who lost their job and remortgaged the house to pay off bad debts. Then FG had to pick up the pieces and try to start paying it off when they fooked off.

It's terrible that people can't see that, but then they say 50% of the people you meet are below average.

course they did. saints they are.:rolleyes: I suppoese you arent 'below average' and those who dont have a house, are in a low paid job, cant get a hospital bed - are.

you lose the argument the minute you start insulting most of the country

maccored

suicide_circus wrote: »

do you think a SF lead government would achieve a higher wage economy than a FG lead government ? by increasing tax on the rich is it? increasing tax on commercial property?

bring it on and lets see - though I think that'll be the election after this one

TuringBot47

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We got out a massive generational loan. All FG contributed to was IW/consultants/Siteserv deal, the housing crisis and letting health fester while breaking records in homelessness and hospital trolley numbers.

We had to beg for a loan to save the county from FF's actions.
The EU wanted a say in the countries finances, much like if you were in arrears in a mortgage and tried getting another loan.
Part of that was trying to privatize Irish water.

The housing crisis... was a crashed house market, pre-FG.
It's great how you blame the wrong people.
The state hasn't built large scale council estates in 30+ years.

Just shows how Sinn Fein wins the votes of the lesser minds.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The only cleaning up FG did was for vulture funds

You do know that bailing out/nationalising the banks was never permanent?
That banks were going to offload debts and the State were going to make banks look good to sell them again? Regardless of who was in government ?

suicide_circus

maccored wrote: »

bring it on and lets see - though I think that'll be the election after this one

its the big evil multi national corporations that are generally paying the decent salaries or at least living wage. its the local SMEs paying minimum wage and that will be hurt by a mandatory living wage.

handlemaster

maccored wrote: »

bring it on and lets see - though I think that'll be the election after this one

Taxing these famous rich. The rich dint and wont stay with high taxes. These are the people who invest and create jobs. The country should encourage the rich to come not force them away.

Jinglejangle69

TuringBot47 wrote: »

We had to beg for a loan to save the county from FF's actions.
The EU wanted a say in the countries finances, much like if you were in arrears in a mortgage and tried getting another loan.
Part of that was trying to privatize Irish water.

The housing crisis... was a crashed house market, pre-FG.
It's great how you blame the wrong people.
The state hasn't built large scale council estates in 30+ years.

Just shows how Sinn Fein wins the votes of the lesser minds.




You do know that bailing out/nationalising the banks was never permanent?
That banks were going to offload debts and the State were going to make banks look good to sell them again? Regardless of who was in government ?

2019 was the highest number of social houses added to the stock in 30 years.

But FG don't like social housing.

And they are accused of lying and hiding truths.

maccored

handlemaster wrote: »

Taxing these famous rich. The rich dint and wont stay with high taxes. These are the people who invest and create jobs. The country should encourage the rich to come not force them away.

yeah - if you tax people they run away. great theory that one

maccored

suicide_circus wrote: »

its the big evil multi national corporations that are generally paying the decent salaries or at least living wage. its the local SMEs paying minimum wage and that will be hurt by a mandatory living wage.

jaysus, you boys should be in government you know so much about how these things work. keyboard accountancy

suicide_circus

maccored wrote: »

jaysus, you boys should be in government you know so much about how these things work. keyboard accountancy

what in that post was incorrect?

FrancieBrady

TuringBot47 wrote: »

We had to beg for a loan to save the county from FF's actions.
The EU wanted a say in the countries finances, much like if you were in arrears in a mortgage and tried getting another loan.
Part of that was trying to privatize Irish water.

The housing crisis... was a crashed house market, pre-FG.
It's great how you blame the wrong people.
The state hasn't built large scale council estates in 30+ years.

Just shows how Sinn Fein wins the votes of the lesser minds.




You do know that bailing out/nationalising the banks was never permanent?
That banks were going to offload debts and the State were going to make banks look good to sell them again? Regardless of who was in government ?

The arrogance not to realise that if you shaft people and force them to endure pain for a crisis they largely didn't create in the first place that they are not going to vote for you.

That is the mistake FG made. Had they made some effort to lift the continual and relentless taxing and gouging then they might have gotten another term.
People can't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

maccored

suicide_circus wrote: »

what in that post was incorrect?

the assumption that taxing business and corporations will result in less businesses and corporations. Tax comes as a package - you cant single out one tax increase or cut without figuring in all the rest. I assume you've done that, hence you should be running the government.

shenanagans

TuringBot47 wrote: »

What do you expect?
That low IQ, manual labour jobs get well paid?
You can't retrain an ex-factory worker to a science/finance or I.T. job that easily.



FG had to clean up FF's complete destruction of the Irish finances.

FF were like a self destructive gambler who lost their job and remortgaged the house to pay off bad debts. Then FG had to pick up the pieces and try to start paying it off when they fooked off.

It's terrible that people can't see that, but then they say 50% of the people you meet are below average.

On the salary issue.....FG haven't done anything for people in childcare or teachers etc... These people do degrees and are well educated....they don't desire the inequality that's been present over last few years.

The newly qualified teacher salary should be on par with other teachers......or the education system will be the next major crisis.

FG came into power in bad times but this could have been remedied over the last couple of years....

suicide_circus

maccored wrote: »

the assumption that taxing business and corporations will result in less businesses and corporations. Tax comes as a package - you cant single out one tax increase or cut without figuring in all the rest. I assume you've done that, hence you should be running the government.

i'm not in a position to run the government.

SF are however.

The accusation was levelled at at FG that wages are low. absolutely fair enough. same goes for a lot of the west - the rise of low wages.

My question was, what is it about the SF manifesto that makes us think they will reverse this trend? would it even be in their power to do so?

maccored

suicide_circus wrote: »

i'm not in a position to run the government.

SF are however.

The accusation was levelled at at FG that wages are low. absolutely fair enough. same goes for a lot of the west - the rise of low wages.

My question was, what is it about the SF manifesto that makes us think they will reverse this trend? would it even be in their power to do so?

You need to read the thing and make your own mind up on that.

There is a risk with SF - but theres a certainty that things wont change with FG and FF. You cant pretend that our 'full employment' - where many people are on the verge of poverty working on minimum wage - a disasterous health system, no housing and a government who spend billions ona hospital ... you cant pretend thats good. it isnt.

suicide_circus

maccored wrote: »

You need to read the thing and make your own mind up on that.

There is a risk with SF - but theres a certainty that things wont change with FG and FF. You cant pretend that our 'full employment' - where many people are on the verge of poverty working on minimum wage - a disasterous health system, no housing and a government who spend billions ona hospital ... you cant pretend thats good. it isnt.

i dont pretend its good and will not be giving FG a preference. i just dont believe SF will improve anything. I think they're poll ratings are largely based on the fact that everyone is sick of the two biggest parties and SF are the third biggest party with the biggest chance of causing an upset - nothing to do with their manifesto.

smurgen

suicide_circus wrote: »

i'm not in a position to run the government.

SF are however.

The accusation was levelled at at FG that wages are low. absolutely fair enough. same goes for a lot of the west - the rise of low wages.

My question was, what is it about the SF manifesto that makes us think they will reverse this trend? would it even be in their power to do so?

Fg in a tweet

https://twitter.com/thecurrency/status/1225761337873174528?s=19

maccored

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont pretend its good and will not be giving FG a preference. i just dont believe SF will improve anything. I think they're poll ratings are largely based on the fact that everyone is sick of the two biggest parties and SF are the third biggest party with the biggest chance of causing an upset - nothing to do with their manifesto.

i think - as long as they arent junior, esp[ecially to FF or FG - that they might get it right. Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Things cant go on like they are - though really, its going to be FFs election so they will (or get worse). Thats how stupid we are - so afraid to consider change we'll welcome back a party that ripped us all off blatently.

James Brown

TuringBot47 wrote: »

We had to beg for a loan to save the county from FF's actions.
The EU wanted a say in the countries finances, much like if you were in arrears in a mortgage and tried getting another loan.
Part of that was trying to privatize Irish water.

The housing crisis... was a crashed house market, pre-FG.
It's great how you blame the wrong people.
The state hasn't built large scale council estates in 30+ years.

Just shows how Sinn Fein wins the votes of the lesser minds.




You do know that bailing out/nationalising the banks was never permanent?
That banks were going to offload debts and the State were going to make banks look good to sell them again? Regardless of who was in government ?

Not true.
'We took one for the team' as Noonan put it and on IW, whatever the alleged merits, it was a crony quango end of story.
'The lesser minds'? Is arrogant ignorant comments like that being clever? If you were you'd know these would-be SF voters didn't fall out of the NCH money tree. Likely they've previously voted FG or FF or Lab.
If you've such disdain for the public it fits you might be a FG follower.
I hope some undecided people read that.

splinter65

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Ah reminded of my youth





They really did the public a disservice IMO.
They should have gone to town on the crash, supporting FG, FG and the crises, crony builder pals, (FF), vulture fund inappropriate behaviour, (FG) and as much 'RA affiliated sh*te as they liked.

In simple terms at least if we build social and affordable people will be able to get a roof and that's all many of us can aspire to, or could have in the past.

I’m voting SF for the first time tomorrow.
Mostly because I firmly believe that voters get the government they deserve.
And I firmly believe that Irish people deserve to have SF in government for at least 3 budgets.
One of the €100000 houses they will build for €65000 per house?I hope my nephew his girlfriend and their 2 children get one
The free 3rd level education that all can have totally free? What a fab idea?
No USC for workers earning less then €30000? Good news for hubby and I!
LPT totally gone? More good news!
12 months maternity benefit at €305 per week, followed by child care reduced by €500 per month per child? Happy days!
And on and on...
Louise O’Reilly Minister for Health? Sure, she’ll show them all how it SHOULD be done!!
Votail SF!

James Brown

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m voting SF for the first time tomorrow.
Mostly because I firmly believe that voters get the government they deserve.
And I firmly believe that Irish people deserve to have SF in government for at least 3 budgets.
One of the €100000 houses they will build for €65000 per house?I hope my nephew his girlfriend and their 2 children get one
The free 3rd level education that all can have totally free? What a fab idea?
No USC for workers earning less then €30000? Good news for hubby and I!
LPT totally gone? More good news!
12 months maternity benefit at €305 per week, followed by child care reduced by €500 per month per child? Happy days!
And on and on...
Louise O’Reilly Minister for Health? Sure, she’ll show them all how it SHOULD be done!!
Votail SF!

Every little helps