Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

For Forks Sake

ednwireland wrote: »

yeh 5k to put in a new bathroom last year 8k to rip out two ceiling in an old house and re-insulate, 2.5k to put a new boiler - no other heating changes.all in the last 2 years

not sure what youre retrofitting for 5k

im not sure what part of their manifesto is costed but some of it is ludicrous

"Costed" as referred to by them means that they show the Dept that they want to build X units at Y cost and it = €Z

The department confirms that X*Y=Z

However, the Department doesn't take into consideration whether it is possible to achieve either X or Y in the real world.

Blazer

ednwireland wrote: »

yeh 5k to put in a new bathroom last year 8k to rip out two ceiling in an old house and re-insulate, 2.5k to put a new boiler - no other heating changes.all in the last 2 years

not sure what youre retrofitting for 5k

im not sure what part of their manifesto is costed but some of it is ludicrous

SF get a discount from the builders. It’s known as the waterboard discount. Irish Water have also waived the water charge for said discount.

For Forks Sake

Yurt! wrote: »

Is the 65k figure actually in their manifesto or something someone on this thread made up?

P. 63: https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2020/SF_GE2020_Manifesto.pdf

Provide an additional €6.5 billion in order to deliver over 100,000 public homes on public land to
meet social and affordable housing needs

Uriel.

Yurt! wrote: »

I invite you to reread my post. I said no such thing.

You're making the case that there is a significant amount of people on disability that shouldn't be. I'm all ears, how many is it? Percentages, hard numbers.

If the figure was one, I'm not defending it - but put up the figures. I'm not ars*d looking because it wasn't me making the claim. It very much looks like you don't know either, yet you're happy to introduce it to the thread with no evidence.

I asked a question. All you had to say is you didn't know.
You're a waffler.

seamus

For Forks Sake wrote: »

"Costed" as referred to by them means that they show the Dept that they want to build X units at Y cost and it = €Z

The department confirms that X*Y=Z

However, it doesn't take into consideration whether it is possible to achieve either X or Y in the real world.

This is very important thing to note.

When a party says they've had the department of finance check their figures, it literally means that that an accountant has taken out a calculator to make sure the figures have been totted up correctly.

It doesn't mean the dept. have confirmed that the costs are possible or sensible, merely that 2 + 2 = 4.

ednwireland

Yurt! wrote: »

Is the 65k figure actually in their manifesto or something someone on this thread made up?

in there manifesto

Provide an additional €6.5 billion in order to deliver over 100,000 public homes on public land to meet social and affordable housing needs

actually it says over 100000 so less than 65k per unit

friendlyfun

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That’s horrible and I hope she’s ok now.

I don’t deny we have serious problems to deal with but deluding yourself that Mary Lou is going to ride into power on a white horse and magically fix things isn’t the answer.

The problems we have are bigger than any one person or party.

But FG have been in power since 2011 and we still have this trolley issue. They simply don't care enough. Leo or Simon parents will hardly ever have to wait in a corridor will they?

Yurt2

Uriel. wrote: »

I asked a question. All you had to say is you didn't know.
You're a waffler.

Neither do you, yet you're the one making the claim.


Put it up hombre

Yurt2

ednwireland wrote: »

in there manifesto


actually it says over 100000 so less than 65k per unit

Fair enough, doesn't sound terribly realistic.

Although, given that not all the 100'000 will be social, many will be affordable with buyers taking out mortgages on the purchase price - so it's not a simple excercise of dividing the 6.5bn by 100'000. I think that's a reasonable point to make.

Uriel.

Yurt! wrote: »

Neither do you, yet you're the one making the claim.


Put it up hombre

I haven't made a claim.
The fact that you can't understand the difference between a question and a claim is troubling.
Youve said the longterm unemployed are not the problem because we're close to full employment, yet you can't say what is or isn't included in calculating the unemployment figures.

Iscreamkone

Will those who support SF actually come out and vote?

Call me Al

Yurt! wrote: »

Is the 65k figure actually in their manifesto or something someone on this thread made up?

Their manifesto says they've costed €6,500,000,000 to build 100,000 houses. On public land.
Cloud cuckoo land more like.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

spurious wrote: »

You couldnt make this up! Sinn Fein worrying about peoples lives? When did that happen? Are you under 20?

I'm talking about you not worrying about people's lives!

You said it would be "worth it" to vote in a party you don't believe in... just so you can kill off that party?

You guys can't even see your own snobbery... lol (Thankfully many others can though )

Yurt2

Uriel. wrote: »

I haven't made a claim.
The fact that you can't understand the difference between a question and a claim is troubling.
Youve said the longterm unemployed are not the problem because we're close to full employment, yet you can't say what is or isn't included in calculating the unemployment figures.

I honestly don't give a sh*t. You seem to think there's some gargantuan problem with fake disability and don't want to put up figures. Do your own googling.

friendlyfun

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

We don't. This has been explained in many many different ways but people don't seem to be able to comprehend it.

We gave illegal state aid to Apple.

Yurt2

Call me Al wrote: »

Their manifesto says they've costed €6,500,000,000 to build 100,000 houses. On public land.
Cloud cuckoo land more like.

Again, the manifesto says 100'000 between social and affordable. Mortgages will be taken out on the affordable housing component, so it's not a simple exercise of dividing by the 100'000 figure.


Their scheme may be unrealistic, but I don't think quoting 65k is helpful.

friendlyfun

Can't wait to see the Blueshirts routed on Saturday.

AudreyHepburn

friendlyfun wrote: »

But FG have been in power since 2011 and we still have this trolley issue. They simply don't care enough. Leo or Simon parents will hardly ever have to wait in a corridor will they?

And Mary Lou and her cronies do? Don’t make me laugh.

ednwireland

Yurt! wrote: »

Again, the manifesto says 100'000 between social and affordable. Mortgages will be taken out on the affordable housing component, so it's not a simple exercise of dividing by the 100'000 figure.


Their scheme may be unrealistic, but I don't think quoting 65k is helpful.

its irrelevant what they are been used for, they are still claiming that they will build those houses for that money, so it s not unreasonable to question the figure.

seamus

Yurt! wrote: »

Again, the manifesto says 100'000 between social and affordable. Mortgages will be taken out on the affordable housing component, so it's not a simple exercise of dividing by the 100'000 figure.

Their scheme may be unrealistic, but I don't think quoting 65k is helpful.

It's spin from Sinn Féin, same as any other party.

The manifesto claims that they'll build 100,000 houses in five years.

At current building levels, the country is going to build 100,000 social and affordable houses in six years anyway.

So in reality while the 65k figure is misleading, so is the 100,000 figure.

The reality is that SF are planning on spending €6.5bn to deliver an extra 16,600 houses over five years. That is, to deliver on the current government commitment a year earlier. That's about €390,000 per house.

That's a realistic figure, but 16,600 doesn't sound as good as 100,000. It's pure spin and nothing more.

friendlyfun

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And Mary Lou and her cronies do? Don’t make me laugh.

I never mentioned SF in this thread or who I'll be voting for? this is just deflection on your part.

youandme13

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mother-of-alleged-ira-victim-urges-electorate-to-remember-her-son-when-voting-1.4160675


I'd never ever vote SF..

uck51js9zml2yt

They want retirement at 65 yet rise it to 66 in the north.
What happened to one country one policy?

Yurt2

ednwireland wrote: »

its irrelevant what they are been used for, they are still claiming that they will build those houses for that money, so it s not unreasonable to question the figure.

Well, the 65k figure landed at by whoever on this deserves to be interrogated. The taxpayer doesn't carry the cost of affordable housing (or at least most of it), mortgages will be taken out on the units and they are generally sold at cost.


I'm not making the case for SF housing policy, but it at least deserves to be presented honestly.

Maewyn Succat

friendlyfun wrote: »

We gave illegal state aid to Apple.

Even if that's the case how much of the money do you think would stay in Ireland if we accept it and do you think it would have any effect on how other multinationals look at Ireland as a place to invest?

super_furry

friendlyfun wrote: »

Can't wait to see the Blueshirts routed on Saturday.

It won't happen. I'd lay money that FG end up with more TDs than Sinn Fein and we'll get a FF/Lab/Green government.

Call me Al

Yurt! wrote: »

Again, the manifesto says 100'000 between social and affordable. Mortgages will be taken out on the affordable housing component, so it's not a simple exercise of dividing by the 100'000 figure.


Their scheme may be unrealistic, but I don't think quoting 65k is helpful.

Really?
I think its very helpful, because even at twice the cost coming out @130k its pie in the sky.
Unrealistic you agree.. The scheme is completely out of touch with reality.
But sure it grabs a great headline doesn't it.
I look forward to Mary Lou actually being able to explain these costing EO'B has come up with tonight, since she now knows it will be asked.

youandme13

Sure if they get in the big MNC's will pack up and leave and then where will SF supposed to get the money? Jobs will be gone to another European country and then what for us?

friendlyfun

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Even if that's the case how much of the money do you think would stay in Ireland if we accept it and do you think it would have any effect on how other multinationals look at Ireland as a place to invest?

I think it already looks poor on reputation and membership of the European Union. I think the days of given illegal state aid it surely numbered.

Yurt2

Call me Al wrote: »

Really?
I think its very helpful, because even at twice the cost coming out @130k its unrealistic.
Unrealistic you say... The scheme is completely out of touch with reality.
But sure it grabs a great headline doesn't it.
I look forward to Mary Lou actually being able to explain these costing EO'B has come up with tonight, since she now knows it will be asked.

If it was 100% social housing, certainly, it's unrealistic. But it's not a 100% social housing policy.

Social housing does not equate to affordable housing. Just as with market-rate units, affordable units have mortgages taken out on them, so to say that Johnny and Mary taxpayer is carrying the can isn't being straight.