Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

Mr. CooL ICE

Mod: AH -> CA

ChikiChiki

Well done FG. Truly remarkable. They have brought Fianna Fail back to life and now Sinn Fein are topping the polls.

That is what you get for persisting with the likes of Harris, both Murphy's and essentially condoning Insurance fraud.

joe40

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Even if that's the case how much of the money do you think would stay in Ireland if we accept it and do you think it would have any effect on how other multinationals look at Ireland as a place to invest?

Multinationals looking at Ireland as a place to invest due to lax tax laws is not sustainable into the future.
I'm not talking about the 12.5% corporation tax, thatstands, it is the likes of Apple paying virtually no tax as this judgement showed.

Maewyn Succat

friendlyfun wrote: »

I think it already looks poor on reputation and membership of the European Union. I think the days of given illegal state aid it surely numbered.

In what way has this affected Ireland's reputation so far?

Yes this case has changed Apple's way of managing their taxes in Ireland.

In your mind what do you think would happen if Ireland accepted the money longterm?

joe40

Yurt! wrote: »

If it was 100% social housing, certainly, it's unrealistic. But it's not a 100% social housing policy.

Social housing does not equate to affordable housing. Just as with market-rate units, affordable units have mortgages taken out on them, so to say that Johnny and Mary taxpayer is carrying the can isn't being straight.

I agree with your post I just think the actual term "affordable housing" is such a misnomer.
If housing isn't affordable it is not housing.

Yurt2

joe40 wrote: »

Multinationals looking at Ireland as a place to invest due to lax tax laws is not sustainable into the future.
I'm not talking about the 12.5% corporation tax, thatstands, it is the likes of Apple paying virtually no tax as this judgement showed.

It's a delicate exercise, but I think Ireland's golden age of FDI is coming to a close in any case. Many of the large multinationals aren't going anywhere for the moment because of sunken costs and they are deeply embedded in the country, but we need to get smart about our CT and FDI policy.

I honestly don't have any decent answers, but you can forgive our EU partners for looking at us with a bit of disapproval.

Mongfinder General

Sadly, there are many of us voting on Saturday with great expectations should Sinn Fein garner enough votes to enter government.

Many of these voters are disenfranchised - working low paying jobs in areas of social deprivation. A few miles away there may better areas, with safer streets, better schools and better amenities. They feel like they're being **** on.

And now in Ireland, the younger, university educated middle class types are starting to feel the pinch. So much so that they will take a chance on Sinn Fein.

Peadar Toibin recently made remarks about SF members having little say in the party.

It's not a matter of if but when SF enter government and there will be plenty of disappointed people. I'd draw a parallel with a quote from Yuri Bezmenov as useful idiots comes to mind with Saturday approaching.


T]he useful idiots, who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system, when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. Aim higher. [...] They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power—obviously they get offended—they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.
Yuri Bezmenov

Lantus

Politicians actually run countries??

almostover

youandme13 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mother-of-alleged-ira-victim-urges-electorate-to-remember-her-son-when-voting-1.4160675


I'd never ever vote SF..

You and me both, just remember Martin Ferris is an outgoing TD for SF. A man who refused to condemn the murder of Garda Jerry McCabe, and who greeted his murderers on their release from prison. A repugnant man and an example of the caliber of SF politicians.

Its unfortunate that in the clamour to punish FF and FG that people have overlooked the murderous past of SF.

Necro

Meh.

Pointless thread is pointless.

Sinn Fein are not even running enough candidates to have an overall majority to run the country as the OP puts it.

At worst they'll be in a coalition and will renege on 90 per cent of their promises (most of which are unworkable anyways)

At best they'll take their usual seats in opposition and continue their dog whistling tactics.

If they win every single seat for the 40 odd candidates they're running I might start to take them seriously but it's never gonna happen

friendlyfun

youandme13 wrote: »

Sure if they get in the big MNC's will pack up and leave and then where will SF supposed to get the money? Jobs will be gone to another European country and then what for us?

Even SF supports 12,5% corporation tax.Will they pack up and leave? I would seriously doubt it. We are one of the most educated nations in the EU, and now the EU country with the most native speakers of English.

Offering double Irish and illegal aid did more bad to our taxation policy than good. Now that we've been exposed its more likely MNCs are more likely going to be playing closer to the full rate. The EU won't tolerate anymore.

SF wont transfer well, even if 25% turn out, with that and their running strategy they wont be converting their vote into seats efficiently.

but FG/FF in govt together has been good for them, no doubt

nb if you believe or repeat a figure of 10k 'homeless' or bleat about a free €13bn from apple you shouldnt really be let vote tbh

Tazz T

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Oh it could.

Please elaborate, because unless SF are planning on bailing out the bankers (who will be rubbing their hands with glee once FF get in again) and doing even less about homelessness, housing and health than FG, short of starting a war with the UK, I can't see how the country could be possibly worse off.

Tazz T

Tazz T wrote: »

Please elaborate, because unless SF are planning on bailing out the bankers (who will be rubbing their hands with glee once FF get in again) and doing even less about homelessness, housing and health than FG, short of starting a war with the UK, I can't see how the country could be possibly worse off.

remember, said about a country regularly in the top ten of the living quality indices, referencing a party that has never run a country and cant really price its own policies

the confidence is mind-blowing

Maewyn Succat

joe40 wrote: »

Multinationals looking at Ireland as a place to invest due to lax tax laws is not sustainable into the future.
I'm not talking about the 12.5% corporation tax, thatstands, it is the likes of Apple paying virtually no tax as this judgement showed.

FF and FG to some extent have accepted this but SF seem to want to factor increasing the corporation tax into their budget thus speeding up the process of multinationals leaving or investing less in Ireland.

topper75

smelly sock wrote: »

Just waiting for the ira to be brought up.

A Venezuela economy scares the **** out of me way more than any IRA ever did or would. It is actually the political wing who would bury Ireland.

Dyr

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I don't know how the Gardai and defensive forces would react to it

What defence forces? FG cut them to bits

It will be like a good buddy movie with RUC Drew and a Fenian Minister for Justice, they'll hate each other but slowly learn to work together to take down the cartel. Final scene will be Drew loosening up a bit and dancing a few steps at a céili in Monaghan

Tazz T

weldoninhio wrote: »

Should be stickied at this stage.

APPLE. DO. NOT. OWE. IRELAND. €12BN. OR. ANYWHERE. NEAR. THAT.

It's European profits that the EU want Ireland to collect on their behalf.

LINK? OR. REMOVE. THE. CAPS.

Or perhaps we'll get to keep 600 million which will conveniently fit that hole in SF's budget forecast for the next four years.

It all makes sense now.

McMurphy

2011 wrote: »

They don’t understand economics. Any time Mary is questioned on the affordability of SF proposals she fails to answer it sufficiently. I would love to get a state pension at 65 but the money simply isn’t there. I agree with her proposal to increase vacant property tax and I like their approach to the insurance crises. I also understand people’s frustration at the current housing / rent situation but SF would run the country into the ground.

The money's not there because Noonan withdrew it from the pension reserve.

amadangomor

We don't need another populist party in charge. We need someone who will make hard decisions even if unpopular.

For example throwing money at the health service hasn't worked ( we are one of the highest spenders per capita in the OECD). We would need someone to come in and change the whole system and the biggest obstacle to this is public service unions. No one would be ballsy enough to take them on as the social media frenzy would be rabid.

I see sheep

"SF will wreck the economy!!"

From FF supporters :pac:

suicide_circus

i cant wait to see what SF do with power once they form a coalition.

Necro

amadangomor wrote:

We don't need another populist party in charge. We need someone who will make hard decisions even if unpopular.

Exactly, we already have Fianna Fail for that!

Edgware

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

FF and FG to some extent have accepted this but SF seem to want to factor increasing the corporation tax into their budget thus speeding up the process of multinationals leaving or investing less in Ireland.

You actually believe S F would keep their promises!

BarryD2

Got election literature in recently from most candidates. All bar SF have basic contact details for the candidate - phone, email, twitter etc.

The Shinner pamphlet just has a photo of ML and the candidate and a message about how FG/FF are screwing up the country.

Clearly they want my vote but they've no interest in the peoples views. Who'd vote for a party like that?

An alternative to FG/FF is badly needed but SF ain't it unless you want to play with fire (& explosives).

Idbatterim

Yurt! wrote: »

If the economy booming sorted all ills then FG wouldn't be in trouble. A minority of people are feeling the benefit, how are you going to make the rest give a sh*t if the economy is booming?


Bill Clinton once famously quipped 'It's the economy stupid.' It's increasingly clear that's complete bunk, when quality of life declines and life fundamentals like securing somewhere to live, saving for a pension, raising a child etc become more difficult in a red-hot economy, something's wrong.

I do actually think it’s skighky different here v the states. Over there , they don’t have the welfare , housing , and I’m assuming health ( with all the private insurance) black holes. When times are good , they can no doubt cut taxes are. It’s totalky different to here , fg reaped what they sowed. Maybe if they didn’t just jack up welfare every budget , they could have done more for the early risers. There is also this “ one for everyone in the audience “ approach to budgets. Well some in the audience have already gotten far too much and shouldn’t be getting more

topper75

seamus wrote: »

This is very important thing to note.

When a party says they've had the department of finance check their figures, it literally means that that an accountant has taken out a calculator to make sure the figures have been totted up correctly.

It doesn't mean the dept. have confirmed that the costs are possible or sensible, merely that 2 + 2 = 4.

Hence the Children's Hospital!

I think the issues with how this country is run go way way deeper than any party politics. So much is not really changed from what we inherited from the British: civil service, judiciary, police and so on.

Often involving sons of fathers and the same schools. I reckon many in the civil service or cops could trace relatives who worked in it over a century ago. The Leinster House carousel never seems to affect that.

Idbatterim

amadangomor wrote: »

We don't need another populist party in charge. We need someone who will make hard decisions even if unpopular.

For example throwing money at the health service hasn't worked ( we are one of the highest spenders per capita in the OECD). We would need someone to come in and change the whole system and the biggest obstacle to this is public service unions. No one would be ballsy enough to take them on as the social media frenzy would be rabid.

You hit the nail on the head and believe me , that expectation here is the delusional. We have spineless politicians. Absolutely no way and if the current ffg lpt are doing it anyway.

Idbatterim

All the lying about rewarding workers etc ? And the sf attacks. The lying is only ok if ffg are doing it , is it ?

amadangomor

Necro wrote: »

Exactly, we already have Fianna Fail for that!

They are all populist in their own ways. It is the biggest weakness of democracy.

Sinn Fein probably don't want to get into power as the reality would hit home. They know they can't change **** all and after playing the populist card they would be crucified at the next election for it