Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

Salary Negotiator

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

So you don't think they'd do a good job, but might be "worth it" if they got in... so you can kill off a party you don't like? :rolleyes:

And what about the lives of people in the country in the meantime? You'd be prepared to sacrifice them, if it killed off SF?

Looks like you might be one of those snobs I was referring to... people like you, are why SF will continue to get more votes. Your indifference to the average person on the street.

This is literally how democracy works, people get the governments they vote for/deserve.

Thelonious Monk

Look with SF they'd prob make f*ck all difference anyway to anything, all politicians tend to end up behaving the same. Civil servants run this country mostly and should keep the ship steady regardless of SF, and there are a few decent ones out there, like Robert Watt in DPER who warned against the national broadband scheme but was ignored as FG clowns know better somehow...
Giving FFFG a message that we want something different is enough for me with this election.

friendlyfun

topper75 wrote: »

A Venezuela economy scares the **** out of me way more than any IRA ever did or would. It is actually the political wing who would bury Ireland.

A left wing government in Portugal is something of a success story. Don't think you'll see blueshirts mentioning this.

Portugal has, for the first time this century, caught up with the rest of Europe: economic growth last year reached a 17-year high of 2.7 per cent, above the eurozone average of 2.5 per cent. More than 270,000 jobs have been created over the last two years, while unemployment, which peaked at 17 per cent in 2013, fell below 8 per cent in December 2017 for the first time in more than 13 years.
The government has increased state pensions, the minimum wage and public sector pay while cutting taxes and improving welfare benefits for the lowest-paid

Idbatterim

TuringBot47 wrote: »

FG inherited a catastrophic mess from FF, enormous crippling national debt.
Running a government is like running a household where you're up to your eyes in debt, there's limitations on what you can do. Sometimes just putting your head down and working through the debt and managing the budget as best you can is all you can do.

Increasing the tax base to include everyone is fair since we've an overly generous welfare system that means that long term layabouts have no incentive to do a days work. Sinn Fein targets those disgruntled voters who want more free handouts and they'll bleed the real workers for it.

Fg wanting to maintain the outrageous social welfare spend , at expense of other areas , has them losing seats. They think they can talk out of both sides of their mouth , do nothing and expect change. You can’t ...

Maewyn Succat

Edgware wrote: »

You actually believe S F would keep their promises!

Not a hope in hell. They're promising so much they'll most likely forget some of the things they promised. A part of me actually hopes they are part of the next government just to see them fail to keep their promises.

They are a professional opposition party and as such are vital to keep the main parties in check but they are not capable of making the hard decisions necessary to run the country.

Thelonious Monk

friendlyfun wrote: »

A left wing government in Portugal is something of a success story. Don't think you'll see blueshirts mentioning this.

Portugal has, for the first time this century, caught up with the rest of Europe: economic growth last year reached a 17-year high of 2.7 per cent, above the eurozone average of 2.5 per cent. More than 270,000 jobs have been created over the last two years, while unemployment, which peaked at 17 per cent in 2013, fell below 8 per cent in December 2017 for the first time in more than 13 years.
The government has increased state pensions, the minimum wage and public sector pay while cutting taxes and improving welfare benefits for the lowest-paid

Didn't know this, I love Portugal and its people, glad to hear it

Rigor Mortis

I'm fairly sure that SF will be nowhere near as bad as the doomsayers tell you they will be and nowhere near as different as their newly found supporters hope they will be.

SF have shown themselves to be a pragmatic, opportunistic party and i have little doubt they will sacrafice their principles in the same way that every politician has to. Politics is the art of the possible. The margins in what is possible are pretty narrow.

TheBoyConor

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I don't know how the Gardai and defensive forces would react to it

The GRA and the defence forces associations would all just see an opportunity and look for extra money for pay. In fairness, the defence forces in particular need it. They are paid appallingly poor salaries.

Maewyn Succat

friendlyfun wrote: »

A left wing government in Portugal is something of a success story. Don't think you'll see blueshirts mentioning this.

Portugal has, for the first time this century, caught up with the rest of Europe: economic growth last year reached a 17-year high of 2.7 per cent, above the eurozone average of 2.5 per cent. More than 270,000 jobs have been created over the last two years, while unemployment, which peaked at 17 per cent in 2013, fell below 8 per cent in December 2017 for the first time in more than 13 years.
The government has increased state pensions, the minimum wage and public sector pay while cutting taxes and improving welfare benefits for the lowest-paid

Can you think of any other countries in the EU that have achieved similar if not better results since 2013?

I'm sure if dig deeper you'll find huge problems in Portugal...you probably need to read the equivalent of the liberal or Joe.ie in Portuguese though.

Idbatterim

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The problem with Sinn Fein is they are saying what people want to hear but don’t seem to be giving any real thought to how achieve this so called change everyone’s bleating on about.

Abolishing taxes for all but the super rich won’t work folks, sorry but that’s the reality.

Where do you expect the money for all this change to come from? We all have to pay our way in life.

And can we all please stop pretending the county was some sort of paradise before FG took power. It wasn’t. Not at all.

FF ran the economy into the ground, FG pulled it back out again by making hard decisions that needed to be made.

The problems with the health system and homelessness are not new and not of FGs making and voting in a new government won’t make them magically disappear.

A little bit of logical thinking please.

Listen if I was a politician, I’d probably lie and claimed i made hard decisions. They don’t do decisions here and certainly not hard ones. Give me one example of a hard decision they made ? Other than having to cut their own salaries...

For Forks Sake

friendlyfun wrote: »

A left wing government in Portugal is something of a success story. Don't think you'll see blueshirts mentioning this.

Portugal has, for the first time this century, caught up with the rest of Europe: economic growth last year reached a 17-year high of 2.7 per cent, above the eurozone average of 2.5 per cent. More than 270,000 jobs have been created over the last two years, while unemployment, which peaked at 17 per cent in 2013, fell below 8 per cent in December 2017 for the first time in more than 13 years.
The government has increased state pensions, the minimum wage and public sector pay while cutting taxes and improving welfare benefits for the lowest-paid

You've just made a case for FG there by those metrics:

Unemployment 2010-2019


Economic growth rate 2010-2019

Tazz T

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Not a hope in hell. They're promising so much they'll most likely forget some of the things they promised. A part of me actually hopes they are part of the next government just to see them fail to keep their promises.

.

This is actually a good thing. No party ever sticks to its policies when it comes to power. With some dilution of SF's more extreme policies, they might have the balance right.

But maybe they don't want to come to power yet.

Once FF's coalition inevitably messes up again... it will be difficult to see anything other than a landslide majority for SF next time around.

patmahe

If FG are simply re-elected they will see that as an endorsement of their policies over the last number of years, we may have an economy but our society is creaking at the seams, housing, healthcare, insurance etc... are all a shambles and its the middle class that are bearing the brunt.

One alternative, FF had multiple terms in government and bankrupted the country so they have proven themselves to be a risky bet at least. Independents don't have enough power individually to get things done so that leaves Sinn Fein (just to be clear, I have never voted for them in my life).

If the poll numbers follow through then at the very least this election will be a wake up call to the current government that things are not ok, the people are not happy and they want a change from the same old thing, I think that message needs to be sent loud and clear because nothing else seems to be getting through.

Hamsterchops

handlemaster wrote: »

Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

No, of course not, but that won't prevent them from demanding to be in a coalition with other parties.

Just wait till McDonald gets going tonight and you'll hear all the usual garbage as to why Sinn Fein has a justifiable right to be in government....

My eyes & ears will be bleeding.

I just hope that Martin & Varadkar jump on her tonight and put her down once and for all.

SF have so much unsavoury baggage that needs to be brought to the fore, specially for the younger generation who obviously need to be reminded.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Necro wrote: »

Meh.

Pointless thread is pointless.

Sinn Fein are not even running enough candidates to have an overall majority to run the country as the OP puts it.

At worst they'll be in a coalition and will renege on 90 per cent of their promises (most of which are unworkable anyways)

At best they'll take their usual seats in opposition and continue their dog whistling tactics.

If they win every single seat for the 40 odd candidates they're running I might start to take them seriously but it's never gonna happen

They had just 4 seats in 2007... fast forward to 2016 - 23 seats.

You may not be taking them seriously, but many other people are!

FG/FF are like a wounded animal at this point... limping around and praying they can stay alive for little bit longer! Sinn Fein are that hungry wolf - they smell blood. Just depends which one they want to eat first really!

Idbatterim

patmahe wrote: »

If FG are simply re-elected they will see that as an endorsement of their policies over the last number of years, we may have an economy but our society is creaking at the seams, housing, healthcare, insurance etc... are all a shambles and its the middle class that are bearing the brunt.

One alternative, FF had multiple terms in government and bankrupted the country so they have proven themselves to be a risky bet at least. Independents don't have enough power individually to get things done so that leaves Sinn Fein (just to be clear, I have never voted for them in my life).

If the poll numbers follow through then at the very least this election will be a wake up call to the current government that things are not ok, the people are not happy and they want a change from the same old thing, I think that message needs to be sent loud and clear because nothing else seems to be getting through.

Yeah it’s as simple as this. I’d love a right of centre party to fork and stronger sf. Appease the masses who are done with a century of ffg failure. Consign the axis of failure to the opposition benches or let them disband. I couldn’t care less

Necro

Hamsterchops wrote:

I just hope that Martin & Varadkar jump on her tonight and put her down once and for all.

I think the worse thing that could have happened SF was for Mary Lou to actually have to partake in this debate.

Varadkar and Martin are very skilled and able to discuss multiple strands of policies, Mary Lou is untested in this regard.

Martin (as detestable as I find him) will destroy her tonight

The Tetrarch

seamus wrote: »

No.
Sinn Féin are talking about spending increases of €4.4bn per year over the next five years.
And proposing tax increases of €3.8bn per year.
Where's the other €600m going to come from?

If you round them both to the nearest billion that is 4 billion out and 4 billion in. :pac:
I thought Sinn Fein was spending an extra 11+ billion.

TwoMonthsOff

A friend of mine was at a Shinner meeting in Coolock a few weeks ago over 150 at it, standing room only. A lot of former FF supporters in attendance.

It could happen....

Necro

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote:

FG/FF are like a wounded animal at this point... limping around and praying they can stay alive for little bit longer! Sinn Fein are that hungry wolf - they smell blood. Just depends which one they want to eat first really!

Yawn. You can make all the analogies you like but until SF pony up and run more candidates they'll never threaten the big two, that's simple maths never mind my own personal feelings on any of the parties

friendlyfun

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No, of course not, but that won't prevent them from demanding to be in a coalition with other parties.

Just wait till McDonald gets going tonight and you'll hear all the usual garbage as to why Sinn Fein has a justifiable right to be in government....

My eyes & ears will be bleeding.

I just hope that Martin & Varadkar jump on her tonight and put her down once and for all.

SF have so much unsavoury baggage that needs to be brought to the fore, specially for the younger generation who obviously need to be reminded.

Martin couldn't jump on a trampoline if it was under him. He's useless and his government extinguished the hopes many young people in this country.

TuringBot47

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Sinn Fein are that hungry wolf - they smell blood.

They should smell blood, their roots are covered in it.

SafeSurfer

friendlyfun wrote: »

Martin couldn't jump on a trampoline if it was under him. He's useless and his government extinguished the hopes many young people in this country.

Bringing up all the, literal skeletons in the Sinn Fein closet hasn’t worked before and won’t work now.

Their association with violence is actually attractive to some young voters who don’t remember the troubles.

scrumqueen

handlemaster wrote: »

Could Sinn fein actually run a country?

42 seats Max. Relax, they won't be "running" anything.

Niallof9

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah it’s as simple as this. I’d love a right of centre party to fork and stronger sf. Appease the masses who are done with a century of ffg failure. Consign the axis of failure to the opposition benches or let them disband. I couldn’t care less

You’ve taken his Good point and mangled it with your ridiculous hyperbole. A century of ffg failures? They haven’t even existed for that long, and it’s hardly all failures. Free education who brought that in? Ffs I’m so sick of this election some absolute horse**** being thrown about.

People want change for changes sake. And it’s probably not a bad thing. Having 3 terms isn’t doable here.

But SF , when they get into power, or in this case as a coalition partner, will quickly realize about fantasy and reality. Nothing will change. We’re 200 billion in debt, beholden to the uk for most of our exports, tied into a parasitic MNC relationship at this stage which has driven up housing/ rent(I work for one and am shat on by them) , have about 2 million or so able tax payers and one of the most imbalanced tax systems in the World. We’ve gone from a backwater, to boom, to recession, to recovery and become a high cost, neo liberals wet dream. But it puts money into most people’s pocket and our absolute poverty levels are some of the lowest due to our safety nets. We have huge issues, but there is a global housing crisis going on as well. Nobody will fix health because it costs billions, and so we,re back to the low population thing. Scandi countries have far flatter tax rates everybody pays their share. Childcare costs are disgusting but again a result of the open market and wealth creation Via two income households. How do we reduce that?

Sinn Fein led by a leader who puts her kids into private schools wants to increase tax on consultants while bettering the health service. Wants to get rid of our only wealth tax while bringing another in. Wants to be tough on crime while being beholden to many of these criminals and wants to abolish the scc. And on and on with their fantasies.

Personally I will vote Greens, Sd’s even Labour. I’m worried about transport as I think fg r the only ones who will deliver. But that’s a Dublin issue.

Until sf get rid of the dark shadows I’ll never vote for them. Gerry McCabe didn’t die for any cause.

suicide_circus

scrumqueen wrote: »

42 seats Max. Relax, they won't be "running" anything.

but they could form part of government and if the polls are correct they most likely will

Necro

scrumqueen wrote:

42 seats Max. Relax, they won't be "running" anything.

If they get 30 of those I'll be very surprised tbh.

is_that_so

suicide_circus wrote: »

but they could be in government and if the polls are correct they most likely will

Least favoured option I would think for FF. FG may find nobody wants to talk to them and they will probably have to settle for offering supply and confidence!

Brock Turnpike

Hypothetical scenario...

SF get 35+ seats

Is a coalition possible between SF, Greens, Independents? Mary Lou as Taoiseach.

LuckyLloyd

Blanco100 wrote: »

can someone explain this vienna housing model that O'Broin wants to see implemented?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/dublin-turns-to-vienna-for-affordable-housing-solution-1.3852436%3fmode=amp