Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

2011

It’s a sad state of affairs. SF are making the most outrageous promises to the electorate. When their numbers are scrutinized Mary fails to answer with anything specific which just underlines the fact that she has no grasp whatsoever of economics. This doesn’t really bother Mary, as the average SF voter doesn’t have the foggiest idea either.

To those that suggest that things couldn’t be any worse than under a SF government I say this: Yes it could. I believe they would drive foreign investment out with their policies and with it a lot of skilled jobs. We would be back in the dark ages.

It is far more complicated that taking from the rich and giving to the poor.

Apart from their lack of financial understanding I am concerned about their opposition to the special criminal court that has been so effective in deal with serious crime in Limerick and with intimidation of witnesses. I’m sure that SF views on this have nothing to do with how effectively these courts have dealt with their “armed wing” in the past. Gerry Adam’s assertion that the special criminal court is a failure in complete b0ll0x and Mary has be unable to find anything to support this position.

It's also concerning that despite the impending pension time bomb SF plan to tax pension contributions.

pjohnson

Field east wrote: »

The banks can be ‘tapped’. They have plenty of it.

You try so hard its adorable.

Hamsterchops

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Hypothetical scenario...

SF get 35+ seats

Is a coalition possible between SF, Greens, Independents? Mary Lou as Taoiseach.

A Big Fat No.

shenanagans

scrumqueen wrote: »

Well given SFs short amount of candidates, there will be a lot of surpluses and transfers which I have to assume will go left?

I see a boost for greens and sd's and maybe labour and some indos.

Greens are running in every constituency and SDs are running 20 candidates. Who knows what will fall out of the boxes on Sunday.

I'd say FF and SF will benefit from each other with transfers. People are focusing on who will be lead party.....people don't want FG again.

Loafing Oaf

seamus wrote: »

The thing that could put the cat amongst the pigeons is the possibility that FF & FG together don't get 81 seats. Most projections are giving them 50-something and 30-something seats each.

Yeah but in that scenario they have the cushion of a clutch of independent TDs from both FF and FG gene pools. If I know those Matties and Michaels like I think I do, they'd be falling over themselves to offer support to a FF-FG government, in return for a little something for their constituents. Don't forget Michael Lowry was one of the most reliable independent backers of the last FF-led government...

TuringBot47

Field east wrote: »

The banks can be ‘tapped’. They have plenty of it.

Which they turn around and charge their customers for.

Larger variable interest rates, monthly fees, transaction changes and recently selling off the ATMs so it looks like the days of free ATM withdrawals are coming to a close.

Yeah, victimless tax.

Field east

spurious wrote: »

You couldnt make this up! Sinn Fein worrying about peoples lives? When did that happen? Are you under 20?

Mary Lou could not have shown more empethy with the facial expressions and appropriate words to match same in the Brian Dobson interview. I wondered if she would have shown the same concern if she was quizzed re Tom Oliver, Jane McConville, etc, etc, etc, etc.

TuringBot47

2011 wrote: »

It’s a sad state of affairs. SF are making the most outrageous promises to the electorate.

Could you imagine the ugly marriage of convenience between Leo / Martin and Mary ? Her wanting to spend, spend, spend and the others trying to say there's no money.

Donnielighto

smelly sock wrote: »

FG/FF are the parties who have rewarded the dead beats amlnd lay abouts. They are the parties who have made the middle income subsidise these wasters and also bail out the banks. FF/FG have made it profitable not to work. FF destroyed our economy.

So to hell with them.

Time for change

SF want to expand that though.

Charles Babbage

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

FF ran the economy into the ground, FG pulled it back out again by making hard decisions that needed to be made.

FF ran the country into the ground, but made a lot of hard decisions to sort it out, albeit by necessity. FG made a lot of expedient decisions and failed to plan for the future.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The problems with the health system and homelessness are not new and not of FGs making and voting in a new government won’t make them magically disappear.
.

The housing situation takes a long time to turn around, it isn't just a question of money. Similarly, a lot of money is spent on health, it just isn't managed well. While SF have done some thinking on housing, I don't see that they would necessarily manage health better. Mary Lou's comment that the "demographics will look after themselves" in relation to pensions gives no encouragement and it wouldn't be rational to vote for a party whose leader says this.

Just to emphasise the point on health, spending on health in Ireland is not low.

Donnielighto

topmanamillion wrote: »

The money isn't there?
Pull the other one. The moneys there to turn down €12 billion from Apple. Along with tolerating the wastage in the top heavy managerial haven of a so called health service we have.

Ayone with 45 odd years of a working life has contributed enough in tax and pension contributions to be entitled to their pension.
Take it out of some where else. Plenty of other places but that's not as easy as pressing plus on a computer and upping the pension age.

I don't agree with it but it wasn't simply a casrkof turning down 12B and simplifing stuff like that isn't helping anyone.


Why is 65 so important for pensions, why no 64 or 60?

Edgware

shenanagans wrote: »

But will FF go in with SF.......let's see if MM has a different manner in tonights debate. Perhaps he'll stop attacking May Lou......or maybe him and Leo will gang up on her and reinforce their positions of not willing to do business with SF.

Maybe " in the national interest" " the people have spoken" " Someone needs to control S.F."
Anything to get the big job

bladespin

Won't happen BUT the other showers couldn't possibly be any better or worse really so, answer is no but neither could the other parties.

Loafing Oaf

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe " in the national interest" " the people have spoken" " Someone needs to control S.F."
Anything to get the big job

But he will almost certainly have a shot at the big job through a confidence and supply deal with FG. Why go anywhere near SF?

marieholmfan

Field east wrote: »

Mary Lou could not have shown more empethy with the facial expressions and appropriate words to match same in the Brian Dobson interview. I wondered if she would have shown the same concern if she was quizzed re Tom Oliver, Jane McConville, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Jean McConville!
Jean!
Jean!


Not Jane and don't let on it was a typo either.
You don't care tuppence about her or anyone else who died in the troubles except as a party political stick to attack Sinn Fein. That stinks!


And by the way if it was a joke of the 'We'll always remember you Jimmy Sands' ilk then is was in very very bad taste!

Field east

For Forks Sake wrote: »

"Costed" as referred to by them means that they show the Dept that they want to build X units at Y cost and it = €Z

The department confirms that X*Y=Z

However, the Department doesn't take into consideration whether it is possible to achieve either X or Y in the real world.

Mary Lou had to admit in a TV interview that it’s figures were ‘run by the Dept of Finance’ with no commitment from the Dept that they were sustainable. Up to that we were given the clear impression that SF figures were fully costed, run by the Deptof Finance and the Dept was happy with them

Yurt2

Field east wrote: »

‘Been in power for a decade’ . Some posters are constantly putting this narrative out at every opportunity at all media levels and no context is given. If FG came into power in 2011 with a growing economy and in a healthy surplus we might have a very different picture today.
THE TRUTH is that FG came into power in 2011 with the economy spiraling out of control IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. Would you conceed that it would take any gov a few years to stop the downturn - with actions that are going to affect people’s pockets- a few more years to stabilize the economy and start then to grow the economy conservatively at first and build up a war chest for capital socially related investment.
The point is that the gov hands were extremely tied as to what it could do as the finances were not there. So it is very disingenuous. To say that it did nothing during its current tenure in office.

Don't buy it. Michael Noonan's priority was getting AIB off the State's books and encouraged funds to come in and hoover up distressed portfolios while paying minimal tax and reinflate property prices. That was FG policy, they need to own it and shouldn't be let off the hook for it.

Tazz T

friendlyfun wrote: »

Martin couldn't jump on a trampoline if it was under him. He's useless and his government extinguished the hopes many young people in this country.

The two of them ganging up in her tonight and doing the 'IRA' thing again will just look bad at this stage, and send more votes to SF - especially after the PrimeTime interview last night.

She'd wipe the floor with them in a proper debate about real electoral issues.

Field east

Yurt! wrote: »

Fair enough, doesn't sound terribly realistic.

Although, given that not all the 100'000 will be social, many will be affordable with buyers taking out mortgages on the purchase price - so it's not a simple excercise of dividing the 6.5bn by 100'000. I think that's a reasonable point to make.

Is this €65,000 cost inclusive of architect fees, planning costs , site cost, servicing of same. Fitting out kitchen, furniture and fittings .
AND WHAT WILL THE BER RATING BE.
And what kind of space will it have front and back.
And what is the sq mt size.
Being built where?
A lot of this is very NB because a lot of similar/ better houses have been refused by waiting list tenants for various reasons.eg wrong location, too small, etc, etc.
You can probably build for that money but , IMO, it would be a single bedroom (no room size), built somewhere in eg donegal, Clare Langford, A G BER rating.

Yurt2

Field east wrote: »

Is this €65,000 cost inclusive of architect fees, planning costs , site cost, servicing of same. Fitting out kitchen, furniture and fittings .
AND WHAT WILL THE BER RATING BE.
And what kind of space will it have front and back.
And what is the sq mt size.
Being built where?
A lot of this is very NB because a lot of similar/ better houses have been refused by waiting list tenants for various reasons.eg wrong location, too small, etc, etc.
You can probably build for that money but , IMO, it would be a single bedroom (no room size), built somewhere in eg donegal, Clare Langford, A G BER rating.

That's my point, I don't think SF are making the claim that they can or will build @ 65k per unit, for reasons I outlined earlier in the thread. That figure is something someone on the thread came up with on a misreading of the manifesto and others are running with it.

Necro

Tazz T wrote:

She'd wipe the floor with them in a proper debate about real electoral issues.

Are you serious?

You can't be serious, right?

Edgware

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But he will almost certainly have a shot at the big job through a confidence and supply deal with FG. Why go anywhere near SF?

Why rely on F.G.to keep you in power when they could pull the plug anytime?
Sinn Fein would stay the full term. Their severest policies would be watered down for coalition( Imagine the response if they refused to go into government because of a policy issue)
Fudge fudge. Review the Special Criminal Court. Why not?
Six months junket for John Finucane and a few more legal eagles.Then it's found to be fine and Carry on Judge "we need it to tackle the drug gangs and protect communities"
Politics, the art of the possible

Loafing Oaf

Edgware wrote: »

Sinn Fein would stay the full term.

Don't see why they should be any more likely to do this than FG

Tazz T

Necro wrote: »

Are you serious?

You can't be serious, right?

Well, let's see - if they can keep away from dragging up the 'war'.

blanch152

Tazz T wrote: »

The two of them ganging up in her tonight and doing the 'IRA' thing again will just look bad at this stage, and send more votes to SF - especially after the PrimeTime interview last night.

She'd wipe the floor with them in a proper debate about real electoral issues.

I hope it will be a nice chat about how to build 65k houses, you know all fluffy unicorns and rainbows stuff.

Necro

Tazz T wrote:

Well, let's see - if they can keep away from dragging up the 'war'.

I genuinely hope that SF's policies get brought up more than their past because there is ample rope with which to hang them from based on that. The random number generator for figures will be in full spin tonight.

I will admit it adds an extra edge to tonight that will make me watch anyways, if nothing else.

Colonel Claptrap

Tazz T wrote: »

The two of them ganging up in her tonight and doing the 'IRA' thing again will just look bad at this stage, and send more votes to SF - especially after the PrimeTime interview last night.

She'd wipe the floor with them in a proper debate about real electoral issues.

Like it or not, the "IRA thing" is a real electoral issue for a lot of people.

Someone said SF couldn't run a country because they can't run an election. But, knowing there would be an election this year, FG raised the issue of the pension age and did the Black and Tans commemoration. Two subjects that were very unpopular. If they had any political gumption they would have kept their mouth shut on both issues.

One thing I would say going for SF is they have so many councillors in the City and County councils. If they got into power, and put together a decent house building program, they'd get support from the councils, not resistance.

pjohnson

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Like it or not, the "IRA thing" is a real electoral issue for a lot of people.

Maybe for those stuck in the past. For those in the modern era its housing and health.

Fann Linn

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Like it or not, the "IRA thing" is a real electoral issue for a lot of people.

And for a lot more it's not.