Could Sinn Fein actually run a country ?

smurgen

Field east wrote: »

Is this €65,000 cost inclusive of architect fees, planning costs , site cost, servicing of same. Fitting out kitchen, furniture and fittings .
AND WHAT WILL THE BER RATING BE.
And what kind of space will it have front and back.
And what is the sq mt size.
Being built where?
A lot of this is very NB because a lot of similar/ better houses have been refused by waiting list tenants for various reasons.eg wrong location, too small, etc, etc.
You can probably build for that money but , IMO, it would be a single bedroom (no room size), built somewhere in eg donegal, Clare Langford, A G BER rating.

Do you think each unit is going to have a unique architectural design?
Also do you have the same scrutiny of figures from FF/FG or is the bar lower for them?

facehugger99

pjohnson wrote: »

Cant be worse than FG tbf.

Never understood this attitude. It's a real example of total logic-fail.

You'd swear we were living in some sort of hell hole, rather than a prosperous western democracy.

We have massive issues with housing, health and infrastructure - some of which are directly related to how successfully we have managed to extract ourselves from recession a decade ago.

Ireland is far from perfect, but it's also far from being the basket-case that SF's policies would result in.

Be extremely careful what you wish for because things can always be worse.

Doctor Jimbob

It's amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about false promises from politicians when it's SF making them. You'd swear FF or FG never promised something they couldn't deliver.

Field east

Field east wrote: »

Is this €65,000 cost inclusive of architect fees, planning costs , site cost, servicing of same. Fitting out kitchen, furniture and fittings .
AND WHAT WILL THE BER RATING BE.
And what kind of space will it have front and back.
And what is the sq mt size.
Being built where?
A lot of this is very NB because a lot of similar/ better houses have been refused by waiting list tenants for various reasons.eg wrong location, too small, etc, etc.
You can probably build for that money but , IMO, it would be a single bedroom (no room size), built somewhere in eg donegal, Clare Langford, A G BER rating.

For a large scale housing program, exactly how many architects do you need? Can you not get an architect to design a corner terrace, mid-terrace and end-of-terrace, It's not like for 1000 houses you need a 1000 architects.

These are going to be social housing. Pretty basic. Don't like it? Go to a private landlord.

rdwight

Don't see why SF couldn't run the country. Look at their record. They've done a great job in government in the Six Occupied Counties over the last three years. And while its true they didn't manage to build much social housing during the several years they controlled Dublin City Council, they did get the Palestinian fleg flying over City Hall.

Fann Linn

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about false promises from politicians when it's SF making them. You'd swear FF or FG never promised something they couldn't deliver.

The faux concern is brilliant alright. Only last week FG/FF were falling over themselves promising goodies for all.

smurgen

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about false promises from politicians when it's SF making them. You'd swear FF or FG never promised something they couldn't deliver.

The amount of articles being churned out by the examiner and independent today is just unreal.all trying to scupper the SF rise.
This is probably the most desperate I've seen yet.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/if-you-want-fine-gael-out-you-need-to-vote-for-fianna-fail-979683.html

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about false promises from politicians when it's SF making them. You'd swear FF or FG never promised something they couldn't deliver.

It's hilarious. A comment earlier in the thread "They are a populist party". And FF are what?

Plumbthedepths

The fact that FG and FF are varying shades of crap at managing the country has made SF a viable option for many people.

Call me Al

Yurt! wrote: »

That's my point, I don't think SF are making the claim that they can or will build @ 65k per unit, for reasons I outlined earlier in the thread. That figure is something someone on the thread came up with on a misreading of the manifesto and others are running with it.

According to journal.ie Sinn Fein say 30,000 of the 100k are affordable housing..
60k social and 20k rental.
6.5billion to pay for it.

Necro

Doctor Jimbob wrote:

It's amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about false promises from politicians when it's SF making them. You'd swear FF or FG never promised something they couldn't deliver.

Fann Linn wrote:

The faux concern is brilliant alright. Only last week FG/FF were falling over themselves promising goodies for all.

Lads this is a thread about Sinn Fein in power?

What do you expect us to go off topic and discuss the populism of FF and FG?

Theres loads of threads for that already!

Fann Linn

Necro wrote: »

Lads this is a thread about Sinn Fein in power?

What do you expect us to go off topic and discuss the populism of FF and FG?

Theres loads of threads for that already!

Thanks. So many threads it's getting mixed up now. 😀😀

rdwight

facehugger99 wrote: »

Never understood this attitude. It's a real example of total logic-fail.

You'd swear we were living in some sort of hell hole, rather than a prosperous western democracy.
]
We have massive issues with housing, health and infrastructure - some of which are directly related to how successfully we have managed to extract ourselves from recession a decade ago.

Ireland is far from perfect, but it's also far from being the basket-case that SF's policies would result in.

Be extremely careful what you wish for because things can always be worse.

It used to be a truism of British politics that when the economy was strugglng, the Tories would get elected on the basis that they could be relied on to do the dirty work, and when times were good, Labour would get in because people felt it was safe to be more flaithulach.

I know there are massive problems that need to be addressed but I can't help thinking, if everyone is struggling so much who are 8.8m people who travelled overseas from Ireland last year.

pjohnson

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about false promises from politicians when it's SF making them. You'd swear FF or FG never promised something they couldn't deliver.

Its too late and its only boosting SF further.

Yurt2

Call me Al wrote: »

According to journal.ie Sinn Fein say 30,000 of the 100k are affordable housing..
60k social and 20k rental.
6.5billion to pay for it.

Eoin O'Broin claiming new units can be delivered for 230k (both social, and affordable which will be purchased via mortgage) - not 65k

Green Party claiming they can deliver units @ 200k (also social, and affordable for purchase via mortgage). Greens promising a delivery of 80'000 units.

Make of that what you will. Bear in mind affordable to my understanding is defined as units for private sale built on public land and will be offered at cost.

Field east

joe40 wrote: »

Multinationals looking at Ireland as a place to invest due to lax tax laws is not sustainable into the future.
I'm not talking about the 12.5% corporation tax, thatstands, it is the likes of Apple paying virtually no tax as this judgement showed.

During the formation of gov in 2011 SF instead of Labour could , technically, gone into gov with FG. Was there a discussion at the time that if that was the case that there would be a capital and business flight out of ireland. And also inward investment might take a hit also

marieholmfan

Field east wrote: »

During the formation of gov in 2011 SF instead of Labour could , technically, gone into gov with FG. Was there a discussion at the time that if that was the case that there would be a capital and business flight out of ireland. And also inward investment might take a hit also

Well was there or wasn't there?
Are you just asking questions or do you have any answer?

handlemaster

Yurt! wrote: »

Eoin O'Broin claiming new units can be delivered for 230k (both social, and affordable which will be purchased via mortgage) - not 65k

Green Party claiming they can deliver units @ 200k (also social, and affordable for purchase via mortgage). Greens promising a delivery of 80'000 units.

Make of that what you will. Bear in mind affordable to my understanding is defined as units for private sale built on public land and will be offered at cost.

No party can claim to know exact costs. Costs vary alot depending on the location of the site external factors such as labour supply, cost of funding , property life cycle etc etc

handlemaster

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-stumbles-over-tax-as-ira-murder-casts-shadow-38924426.html


SF have to own who they are before they can be trusted with the republic of Ireland. It's a question of trust also not just policies. And their policies have more holes than a shooting range.

Field east

Necro wrote: »

Meh.

Pointless thread is pointless.

Sinn Fein are not even running enough candidates to have an overall majority to run the country as the OP puts it.

At worst they'll be in a coalition and will renege on 90 per cent of their promises (most of which are unworkable anyways)

At best they'll take their usual seats in opposition and continue their dog whistling tactics.

If they win every single seat for the 40 odd candidates they're running I might start to take them seriously but it's never gonna happen

If SF enter gov with whoever and fail to deliver it has three obvious outs at least (1) the senior party did not give its relevant minister enough money
(2) the 11 m euro did not materialise
(3) it was not given the ministry that the voters have a big problem with

Yurt2

handlemaster wrote: »

No party can claim to know exact costs. Costs vary alot depending on the location of the site external factors such as labour supply, cost of funding , property life cycle etc etc

I'd agree, but building at scale on public land (removing one of the main cost inputs), the Green / SF estimates of 200-230k per unit delivery don't seem entirety crazy and seem like fairly real world figures.

Field east

suicide_circus wrote: »

i cant wait to see what SF do with power once they form a coalition.

And how long will it stay in it? Remember a last binding arrangement - the C and S arrangement was supposed to last only 6 mts. FF deserves a lot of credit for making it last the full term

Carlow–Kilkenny 5 seats - FF 3, FG 3, SF 1, Labour 1, Independent 2, Renua, 1, PBP 1, Greens 1, Irish Freedom 1

Cavan–Monaghan 5 seats - FF 3, FG 3, SF 2, Labour 1, Independent 1, PBP 1, Greens 1, Aontu 1

Clare 4 - FF 3, FG 3, SF 1, Labour 0, Independent 4, PBP 1, Greens 1, Renua 1, Irish Freedom 1,

Cork East 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, PBP 0, Greens 1, Aontu 1, Irish Freedom 1

Cork North Central 4 - FF 3, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 6, PBP 1, SD 1, Greens 1, Workers Party 1, Aontu 1,

Cork North West 3 - FF 2, FF 2, SF 0, Labour 0, Independent 1, Greens 1, SD 1, Irish Freedom 1

Cork South Central 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1

Cork South West 3 - FF 2, FF 2, SF 1, Labour 0, Independent 3, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1

Donegal 5 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 2, Labour 0, Independent 5, Greens 1, Aontu 1

Dublin Bay South 5 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, Independent 6, Greens 1, PBP 2, Irish Freedom 1, SD 1, Aontu 1

Dublin Bay North 4 - FF 1, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 5, Greens 1, SD 1, PBP 1, Renua 1, Irish Freedom 1

Dublin Central 4 - FF 1, FF 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 5, PBP 2, Greens 1, SD 1, Workers Party 1, Aontu 1

Dublin Fingal 5 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, PBP 2, Greens 1, Ind for change 1, SD 1, United People 1

Dublin Mid West 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 2, Labour 1, Independent 2, PBP 1, Greens 1, Workers Party 1

Dublin North West 3 - FF 1, FG 1, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, PBP 1, Greens 1, SD 1, National Party 1

Dublin Rathdown 3 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, PBP 1, Greens 1, Aontu 1

Dublin South Central 4 - FF 1, FG 1, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, ind for change 1, National Party 1

Dublin South West 5 - FF 3, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 3, Greens 1, PBP 2, SD 1, Renua 1, National Party 1

Dublin West 4 - FF 1, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 3, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1

Dun Laoghaire 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, Independent 1, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1, Irish Freedom 1

Galway East 3 - FF 2, FG2, SF 1, Labour 1, Independent 2, Greens 1, SD 1, Aontu 1, Renua 1

Galway West 5 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, PBP 2, SD 1, Aontu 1

Kerry 5 - FF 3, FG 2, SF 1, Independent 4, Greens 1, Irish Freedom 1, Aontu 1

Kildare North 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Renua 1

Kildare South 4 - FF 2, FG 1, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1.
Nb: Ceann Comhairle in this constituency and automatically returned.

Laois–Offaly 5 - FF 4, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, Greens 1, PBP 1, Renua 1, National Party 1, Irish Democratic 1

Limerick City 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 1, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1, National Party 1

Limerick County 3 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Independent 3, Greens 1, Aontu 1, Renua 1, National Party 1

Longford–Westmeath 4 - FF 2, FG 3, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, PBP 2, National Party 1

Louth 5 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 2, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, PBP 1, Renua 1, Irish Freedom 1

Mayo 4 - FF 2, FG 3, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1, Irish Freedom 1

Meath East 3 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1, Workers Party 1

Meath West 3 - FF 1, FG 3, SF 1, Labour 0, independent 0, Greens 1, SD 1, Aontu 1, Renua 1

Roscommon-Galway 3 - FF 2, FG 1, SF 1, Labour 0, independent 3, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1, National Party 1

Sligo-Leitrim 4 - FF 3, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 6, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1, Renua 1, ind for change 1, National Party 1

Waterford 4 - FF 2, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 2, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1

Wexford 5 - FF 4, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 3, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1, ind for change 1

Wicklow 5 - FF 2, FG 3, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 8, Greens 1, PBP 1, SD 1, Aontu 1, National Party 1

TIPPERARY 5 - POSTPONED DUE TO THE DEATH OF AN INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE
But here are the candidates still showing
FF 3, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 4, Greens 1, Irish Freedom 1


Sinn Fein have one candidate in 33 counties, two candidates in 4 counties and none in 1 county. Tipperary not included.

Above info gathered from here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dáil_constituencies

sbsquarepants

I think people just have a pain in their holes with FF and FG - they are for all intents and purposes the same party.
It makes zero difference which of them is in power, repeated flip flopping from one to the other is ridiculous, it may have taken us a century to realise this, but at least we seem to be getting there now.

Will it be better or will it be worse - only time will tell. But at least it will be different.

TuringBot47

Yurt! wrote: »

Eoin O'Broin claiming new units can be delivered for 230k (both social, and affordable which will be purchased via mortgage) - not 65k

Green Party claiming they can deliver units @ 200k (also social, and affordable for purchase via mortgage). Greens promising a delivery of 80'000 units.

Make of that what you will. Bear in mind affordable to my understanding is defined as units for private sale built on public land and will be offered at cost.

It's not the unit price of a house that matters.
Look what happened historically in Ballymun and Tallaght if you just build houses, but there's no schools, shops, community centres, leisure facilities, playgrounds, creches, good bus/train links etc.

No way you can just focus on unit price for building a house.

thegetawaycar

Field east wrote: »

If SF enter gov with whoever and fail to deliver it has three obvious outs at least (1) the senior party did not give its relevant minister enough money
(2) the 11 m euro did not materialise
(3) it was not given the ministry that the voters have a big problem with

Expect that we will have an FF government backed by FG but if we did have SF in power (as minority) I'd expect they would pull the plug fairly early and look to re-run the election but enter a lot more candidates in the hopes of leading as the major player.

I think FG need a new leader who will see that they should never have alienated their base and tried to be everything to everyone. Claiming to be the party of law and order and of the working people but then not reducing taxes for workers, not bringing in mandatory sentences for multiple convictions etc... but instead paying extra in terms of welfare eg Christmas bonus has screwed them.
They should have announced no bonus and the extra money would instead be used for housing, the free everything brigade have parties offering all sorts so the bonus and extra 5euro have been ignored by them but have annoyed the working people.

SF will be hoping if they can get in to power they will have the Apple tax windfall to play with too. My main concern is that yet again we seem to be looking at taking huge portions of the workforce out of the tax net which in turn means when the next downturn comes we have no reliable tax intake.

Field east

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that SF will be nowhere near as bad as the doomsayers tell you they will be and nowhere near as different as their newly found supporters hope they will be.

SF have shown themselves to be a pragmatic, opportunistic party and i have little doubt they will sacrafice their principles in the same way that every politician has to. Politics is the art of the possible. The margins in what is possible are pretty narrow.

It’s of interest that there is so much focus on capping / freezing/ lowering rents but ABSOLUTLY no discussion on the whole insurance cost issue - x- and most especially because of the recent issue re insuring creschs- (WHICHAREABOUTCHILDREN)

Yurt2

TuringBot47 wrote: »

It's not the unit price of a house that matters.
Look what happened historically in Ballymun and Tallaght if you just build houses, but there's no schools, shops, community centres, leisure facilities, playgrounds, creches, good bus/train links etc.

No way you can just focus on unit price for building a house.

Ok. Let's build nothing.

Necro

Strawberry Milkshake wrote:

Sligo-Leitrim 4 - FF 3, FG 2, SF 1, Labour 1, independent 6, Greens 1, PBP 1, Aontu 1, Renua 1, ind for change 1, National Party 1

Nineteen candidates in my own constituency for four seats is akin to lunacy imo.

Half of them won't even hit the requirement for their deposit back.

To get back on topic though, SF not running a second there is a misstep imo, I don't necessarily agree with it but there is potential for a second SF seat in this area given the outright uselessness of most of the other candidates