Immigration and the housing crisis

alastair

Yurt! wrote: »

Why don't you tell us all if it's so important to your point? I'm not actually all that interested by the way.

You can choose to evade, but let’s not pretend it’s on the back of lack of interest.

How exactly do you think enforced deportations are arrived at?

What’s the critical difference between a deportation order, and an enforced deportation order?

tabby aspreme

alastair wrote: »

What’s the critical difference between a deportation order, and an enforced deportation order?

Would an enforced deportation order be where the person is escorted out of the country by Gardai/ dept officials, the other being that the deportation order is made but the person disappears before it can be enforced.

weldoninhio

alastair wrote: »

It’s no slam dunk whatsoever. Now - care to answer the relevant question?

How exactly do you think enforced deportations are arrived at? Let’s tease this out.

What’s the critical difference between a deportation order, and an enforced deportation order?

Criminals, nuisances, and those who have come to the attention of the state while a deportation order was in effect etc.

alastair

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Would an enforced deportation order be where the person is escorted out of the country by Gardai/ dept officials, the other being that the deportation order is made but the person disappears before it can be enforced.

Nope. The system works on the basis of enforcement as only being required where non-enforced deportation hasn’t been adhered to.

alastair

weldoninhio wrote: »

Criminals, nuisances, and those who have come to the attention of the state while a deportation order was in effect etc.

Not at all. The distinction is rather more simple.

Yurt2

alastair wrote: »

You can choose to evade, but let’s not pretend it’s on the back of lack of interest.

How exactly do you think enforced deportations are arrived at?

What’s the critical difference between a deportation order, and an enforced deportation order?

You're obviously withholding some dynamite nugget, don't keep us on tenderhooks any longer.

alastair

Yurt! wrote: »

You're obviously withholding some dynamite nugget, don't keep us on tenderhooks any longer.

I’m waiting for you to answer a very simple question.

Yurt2

alastair wrote: »

I’m waiting for you to answer a very simple question.

Alastair my friend, as I said before, I don't give a rattlers.

If you're trying to suggest that my original assertion that there are likely hundreds/ thousands of individuals still in the state despite deportation notifications having been served on them is incorrect, I'll leave you to your fantasy.

Perhaps others in the thread are entertained by you dancing on the head of a pin. I, however don't care all that much. I doubt your startling revelation will tell us much.

alastair

Yurt! wrote: »

Alastair my friend, as I said before, I don't give a rattlers.


If you're trying to suggest that my original assertion that there are likely hundreds/ thousands of individuals still in the state despite deportation notifications served on the, is incorrect, I'll leave you to your fantasy.


Perhaps others in the thread are entertained by you dancing on the head of a pin. I, however don't care all that much. I doubt your startling revelation will tell us much.

And again - you can choose to evade, but it’s not on account of not caring. You’re still here on the thread. You’re evading because you know the answer, and it doesn’t do your claim any favours whatsoever.

Yurt2

alastair wrote: »

And again - you can choose to evade, but it’s not on account of not caring. You’re still here on the thread. You’re evading because you know the answer, and it doesn’t do your claim any favours whatsoever.

You lost this one about half a dozen posts ago. But go on, tell us Alistair.

alastair

Yurt! wrote: »

You lost this one about half a dozen posts ago. But go on, tell us Alistair.

Sure - as soon as you answer the question.

weldoninhio

alastair wrote: »

Nope. The system works on the basis of enforcement as only being required where non-enforced deportation hasn’t been adhered to.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/chinese-man-living-here-for-18-years-challenges-driving-licences-policy-885848.html

I presume immigration will picking this guy up soon. ONly here illegally the past 18 years. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yurt2

alastair wrote: »

Sure - as soon as you answer the question.

Please, put us out of our misery.

alastair

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/chinese-man-living-here-for-18-years-challenges-driving-licences-policy-885848.html

I presume immigration will picking this guy up soon. ONly here illegally the past 18 years. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Plenty of illegals here. But he has never had a deportation order - has he?

I think there is a middle ground on this most Fine Gael voter/Fine Gael inclined voters miss. Thousands of us are driven to despair by housing. Not the "forever homes" crowd but decent people who work and rent but are stuck with no light at the end of the tunnel. I get up everyday at 4am to get ready for the 105km door to door commute because it's all I can afford. That life is repeated by the thousands on every train and bus leaving Dublin every evening. Peoples issue is not entitlement its hopelessness its a **** way to live and there is no prospect of improvement in the current climate. What so many have now us an existence nothing else. That's why people are frustrated. It inevitably brings out the who gives a donald duck brigade on one side and the outright racism on the other but until mainstream politicians sort the housing crisis the situation will escalate.

ifElseThen

Snow Garden wrote: »

The Eastern Europeans are leaving in their droves because rents are too high here and their home economies going well. They are leaving major shortages in construction projects. Irish people have stopped doing apprenticeships too which is resulting in huge shortages for skilled plumbers, electricians etc

Of course, we are losing the mobile, skilled immigrants, leaving behind a plethora of unskilled immigrants.
Asians working in Convenience stores & fast food joints, East Europeans working in catering and hotels etc.
With low wages, those working in those jobs are not really contributing to the economy; instead they are net detractors from the tax pot, when you take Welfare, HAP, Education Costs, Health costs into account.

Immigration is a massive elephant in the room in the context of the housing crisis.

We need targeted immigration, to attract in those who want to work with skills matching to where our economy is lacking.

Anyone else should be refused entry as invariably the burden ends up on the taxpayer.

If you can provide for yourself you're more than welcome in my opinion.

If you've no relevant skills, you're not welcome in my opinion.

Case in point below.
https://www.thejournal.ie/homeless-high-court-dublin-romanian-4969372-Jan2020/

"Phelan said that the work record of the couple had no relevance to the application. The couple, she said, were EU nationals and there were cases of other councils providing social housing supports to non-Irish nationals who did not have a record of 52 weeks employment. "

Never contributed here but are deemed to be entitled to be allowed on a housing list.

alastair

Yurt! wrote: »

Please, put us out of our misery.

I thought you didn’t give a rattlers? Feel free to answer the question any time.

Yurt2

alastair wrote: »

I thought you didn’t give a rattlers? Feel free to answer the question any time.

I see your sarcasm detector is off as well...

weldoninhio

alastair wrote: »

Plenty of illegals here. But he has never had a deportation order - has he?

Not sure, story doesn't specify. I'd say he will soon. But he's been here 18 years so i'm sure the violin will be out for him if he does. Especially if he has any kids. We've all seen that movie before, kid knows nowhere else, will miss his school friends, look heres a pic of him playing GAA or a vid of him using basic Irish. As if families don't move countries every day of the year.

Chris_Heilong

ifElseThen wrote: »

Of course, we are losing the mobile, skilled immigrants, leaving behind a plethora of unskilled immigrants.
Asians working in Convenience stores & fast food joints, East Europeans working in catering and hotels etc.
With low wages, those working in those jobs are not really contributing to the economy; instead they are net detractors from the tax pot, when you take Welfare, HAP, Education Costs, Health costs into account.

Immigration is a massive elephant in the room in the context of the housing crisis.

We need targeted immigration, to attract in those who want to work with skills matching to where our economy is lacking.

Anyone else should be refused entry as invariably the burden ends up on the taxpayer.

If you can provide for yourself you're more than welcome in my opinion.

If you've no relevant skills, you're not welcome in my opinion.

Case in point below.
https://www.thejournal.ie/homeless-high-court-dublin-romanian-4969372-Jan2020/

"Phelan said that the work record of the couple had no relevance to the application. The couple, she said, were EU nationals and there were cases of other councils providing social housing supports to non-Irish nationals who did not have a record of 52 weeks employment. "

Never contributed here but are deemed to be entitled to be allowed on a housing list.

Exactly, mass immigration of unskilled labour does benifit large companies and shopping centres looking to pay peanuts and is handy if a political party wants to capatilize on targeting them for votes but it is higly skilled immigrants that we need as we have enough of the lower end type and are in danger of creating a new under class that takes advantage of those willing to work for nothing.

jmayo

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/chinese-man-living-here-for-18-years-challenges-driving-licences-policy-885848.html

I presume immigration will picking this guy up soon. ONly here illegally the past 18 years. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

nah alastair will argue he can't be sent home to China as
a) risk of getting exposure to Corona virus
or maybe even
b) he can't speak mandarin anymore so probably can't communicate

Besides he was never issued with deportation order so shure it's all grand.

Lads getting alastair to admit to the probable existence of thousands of illegals in this country who were issued with deportation orders is an improbability.
It is not in their interest to highlight or acknowledge the problem.

Hell you could line them all up and he/she would refuse to recognise the count because one of them had bent down to tie his shoelaces.

alastair is your typical modern social justice warrior/employee.
They will argue even about the font as a way to rubbish a statement when confronted with verifiable data from legitimate sources that counteracts and debunks their assertions.

Siena Fit Salami

Siena Fit Salami wrote: »

............I get up everyday at 4am to get ready for the 105km door to door commute because it's all I can afford. That life is repeated by the thousands on every train and bus leaving Dublin every evening. ..............

There's not many doing that I'd imagine. What time do you start work?

alastair

jmayo wrote: »

nah alastair will argue he can't be sent home to China as
a) risk of getting exposure to Corona virus
or maybe even
b) he can't speak mandarin anymore so probably can't communicate

Besides he was never issued with deportation order so shure it's all grand.

Lads getting alastair to admit to the probable existence of thousands of illegals in this country who were issued with deportation orders is an improbability.
It is not in their interest to highlight or acknowledge the problem.

Hell you could line them all up and he/she would refuse to recognise the count because one of them had bent down to tie his shoelaces.

alastair is your typical modern social justice warrior/employee.
They will argue even about the font as a way to rubbish a statement when confronted with verifiable data from legitimate sources that counteracts and debunks their assertions.

Let me know when you’ve evidence of a single deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended. One shouldn’t be too hard to find,what with there being supposedly thousands of the feckers. Some of that verifiable data you mentioned.

Put up, or shut up.

alastair

alastairs payola wrote: »

imgur.com/a/vHCny9J

imgur.com/a/npG9X9X

Somebody’s not too sharp on the whole computers business.

weldoninhio

alastair wrote: »

Let me know when you’ve evidence of a single deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended. One shouldn’t be too hard to find,what with there being supposedly thousands of the feckers. Some of that verifiable data you mentioned.

Put up, or shut up.

Ellie Kisyombe. Had no legal right to claim asylum here after claiming in UK. Allowed run for office in Ireland while in DP, and given leave to remain.

alastair

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ellie Kisyombe.

She didn’t stay here past a deportation order. She was granted leave to remain. Next?

She wasn’t entitled to make a claim in the UK, but she was here.

ifElseThen

And you are ok with a valid deportation order being turned on it's head due to pressure or outcry?

A la the Chinese/Irish child down in Wicklow.

A la Kunle Elunhanla back in the mid 00s.

With the UN ruling that climate change is a valid reason for claiming asylum, do you have any hard stops?

alastair

ifElseThen wrote: »

And you are ok with a valid deportation order being turned on it's head due to pressure or outcry?

A-la the Chinese/Irish child down in Wicklow.

A la Kunle Elunhanla back in the mid 00s.

With the UN ruling that climate change is a valid reason for claiming asylum, do you have any hard stops?

If a minister thinks that there’s good reason to overturn a deportation, then that’s fine by me. The family in Bray certainly didn’t warrant deporting. Kunle Elunhanla was deported.

Every asylum claim needs to be assessed on it’s own merits. That’s a pretty straightforward ‘hard stop’.

Geuze

I have not read the whole thread, but can somebody clarify:

(1) are we obliged to accept EU nationals onto the housing lists, like an Irish citizen can apply?

(2) same question for non-EU nationals

alastair

Geuze wrote: »

I have not read the whole thread, but can somebody clarify:

(1) are we obliged to accept EU nationals onto the housing lists, like an Irish citizen can apply?

(2) same question for non-EU nationals

https://www.focusireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/FileDownLoad29412en.pdf