Immigration and the housing crisis

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

Let me know when you’ve evidence of a single deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended. One shouldn’t be too hard to find,what with there being supposedly thousands of the feckers. Some of that verifiable data you mentioned.

Put up, or shut up.

Olunkunle Eluhanla. Arrived here and claimed to be underage, despite strong rumours that he was almost 30 and a failed asylum seeker in the UK.

Got himself into a school in West Dublin. Eventually deported. Outcry from his classmates. Was interviewed sitting in a chair on the tarmac at Lagos airport. More outcry from gobshites. Was allowed back to sit his Leaving Cert. Eventually deported again 6 months or so later. Having been caught in an ATM skimming racket and also being done for driving without insurance probably didn't help him. The fact that he successfully managed (or at least claimed) to get a 16 year old from Tallaght pregnant upon his return didn't work as planned in terms of getting himself status in Ireland.

You appear to think that all of the 96% or whatever whose bogus asylum applications were rejected just upped and left. It is easy to look up the number who were granted asylum. What are we talking - maybe 3-4k people a year? Probably even less than that. Let's say 50k people overall. Given that you think that the applicants all went home, you must have never visited the likes of Balbriggan or Blanchardstown.

By all means argue that you think that people should be allowed to stay because of X/Y/Z. But don't patronize us with obviously false shite

Kivaro

Donald Trump wrote: »

By all means argue that you think that people should be allowed to stay because of X/Y/Z. But don't patronize us with obviously false shite

There's a reason why he is on the ignore list, which is highly recommended for those who do not want to read about obviously false assertions.
A lot of his claims are unrealistic even for the most liberal of liberals.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Olunkunle Eluhanla. Arrived here and claimed to be underage, despite strong rumours that he was almost 30 and a failed asylum seeker in the UK.

Got himself into a school in West Dublin. Eventually deported. Outcry from his classmates. Was interviewed sitting in a chair on the tarmac at Lagos airport. More outcry from gobshites. Was allowed back to sit his Leaving Cert. Eventually deported again 6 months or so later. Having been caught in an ATM skimming racket and also being done for driving without insurance probably didn't help him. The fact that he successfully managed (or at least claimed) to get a 16 year old from Tallaght pregnant upon his return didn't work as planned in terms of getting himself status in Ireland.

You appear to think that all of the 96% or whatever whose bogus asylum applications were rejected just upped and left. It is easy to look up the number who were granted asylum. What are we talking - maybe 3-4k people a year? Probably even less than that. Let's say 50k people overall. Given that you think that the applicants all went home, you must have never visited the likes of Balbriggan or Blanchardstown.

By all means argue that you think that people should be allowed to stay because of X/Y/Z. But don't patronize us with obviously false shite

So, your example of someone not being deported is someone who was deported. Gotcha.

I love that your additional ‘proof’ is the presence of ‘asylum-y looking types’ around the place, ��

You were saying about ‘patently false ****e’?

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

Yeaaah - again - nonsense. Irish isn’t ‘anyone’. It’s those who hold Irish citizenship. Regardless of any other criteria. It’s the sole meaningful criteria for determining their Irishness.

There was no such thing as Irish citizenship until Irish independence.

Using that as a 'sole' criterion for determining 'Irishness', is just being unschooled about the thing.

dxhound2005

Donald Trump wrote: »

Given that you think that the applicants all went home, you must have never visited the likes of Balbriggan or Blanchardstown.

Those people could be Americans or English. There are more Americans in Ireland than Nigerians. Also more Germans, Italians and Spanish.

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

There was no such thing as Irish citizenship until Irish independence.

Using that as a 'sole' criterion for determining 'Irishness', is just being unschooled about the thing.

There was certainly Irish nationality though. Just as there is Scottish or Welsh nationality today, neither of which are determined by genetics or ethnicity.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

There was certainly Irish nationality though. Just as there is Scottish or Welsh nationality today, neither of which are determined by genetics or ethnicity.

Not determined by it, no. Then again, I never made that claim.

But Irish nationality is very meaningfully informed by genetic and ethnic Irishness, amongst other things.

Anyway, my original point to you was to reject your idea of citizenship as the sole meaningful criterion of Irishness.

It isn't. Exactly in the same way that putting the word 'New' before 'Irish' confers nothing of any worth, it fools nobody with a scrap of sense.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

So, your example of someone not being deported is someone who was deported. Gotcha.

I love that your additional ‘proof’ is the presence of ‘asylum-y looking types’ around the place, ��

You were saying about ‘patently false ****e’?

Lol dude. You have to be trolling. This is what you asked for

Let me know when you’ve evidence of a single deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended.

Even though you tried to contort the conditions in a way which you thought were impossible. It was precisely what you asked for - Olunkunle Eluhanla was a "deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended."

Ya must be sickened.

Go back to telling black Americans that they can't call themselves African American unless they have citizenship of "Africa"

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Not determined by it, no. Then again, I never made that claim.

But Irish nationality is very meaningfully informed by genetic and ethnic Irishness, amongst other things.

But my original point to you was to reject your idea of citizenship as the sole meaningful criterion of Irishness.

It isn't. Exactly in the same way that putting the word 'New' before 'Irish' confers nothing of any worth, it fools nobody with a scrap of sense.

This is a nation-State. Citizenship rights equates to nationality. New Irish is indeed a pointless term. They’re simply Irish.

Donald Trump

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Those people could be Americans or English. There are more Americans in Ireland than Nigerians. Also more Germans, Italians and Spanish.

Maybe they are black Germans who want to come to Ireland to live in shithole wastelands.

Maybe they should set up a few German language schools out in Balbriggan so that all those native Germans can make a few quid rather than being stuck on the dole......Or maybe they are already all in well paying jobs as third level professors of German literature and just decide to live in cheap shitholes.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lol dude. You have to be trolling. This is what you asked for



Even though you tried to contort the conditions in a way which you thought were impossible. It was precisely what you asked for - Olunkunle Eluhanla was a "deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended."

Ya must be sickened.

Go back to telling black Americans that they can't call themselves African American unless they have citizenship of "Africa"

I’m not sure what you think you’ve achieved, but you certainly haven’t provided ‘evidence of a single deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended.’ The lad was deported. He didn’t stay here beyond his deportation. Subsequently it was determined he was deported unfairly, and he was granted a six month reprieve to return to Ireland, to complete his leaving cert. He was then, once again, deported, and remains outside the country to this day. That’s all very interesting, but it doesn’t actually address what I was looking for.

Donald Trump

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

There was no such thing as Irish citizenship until Irish independence.

Using that as a 'sole' criterion for determining 'Irishness', is just being unschooled about the thing.

And not a lot of know that there are actually no Welsh people
Or Scottish people
Or English people for that matter

If a person ever tells you that they are Basque or Catalan, call them liars.
If you meet someone who tells you that they are Tibetan, tell them to fuck off with themselves and that they are just lying Chinese and that there is no such thing as a Tibetan.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe they are black Germans who want to come to Ireland to live in shithole wastelands.

Maybe they should set up a few German language schools out in Balbriggan so that all those native Germans can make a few quid rather than being stuck on the dole......Or maybe they are already all in well paying jobs as third level professors of German literature and just decide to live in cheap shitholes.

Or maybe, let’s see, they’re just not failed asylum seekers who nobody bothered to enforce deportation of. A crazy notion.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

And not a lot of know that there are actually no Welsh people
Or Scottish people
Or English people for that matter

If a person ever tells you that they are Basque or Catalan, call them liars.
If you meet someone who tells you that they are Tibetan, tell them to fuck off with themselves and that they are just lying Chinese and that there is no such thing as a Tibetan.

Plenty of nationalities don’t have discreet citizenship rights. We do.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

I’m not sure what you think you’ve achieved, but you certainly haven’t provided ‘evidence of a single deported failed asylum seeker staying here after the process has ended.’ The lad was deported. He didn’t stay here beyond his deportation. Subsequently it was determined he was deported unfairly, and he was granted a six month reprieve to return to Ireland, to complete his leaving cert. He was then, once again, deported, and remains outside the country to this day. That’s all very interesting, but it doesn’t actually address what I was looking for.

Lol. He was deported and came back and was allowed to stay. Acted the bollix and was fucked out again

Sickened.

Sure here is another one. Deportation order lifted and granted leave to remain. Again it satisfies your criteria - he was issued with deportation orders and allowed to stay.

dxhound2005

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe they are black Germans who want to come to Ireland to live in shithole wastelands.

Maybe they should set up a few German language schools out in Balbriggan so that all those native Germans can make a few quid rather than being stuck on the dole......Or maybe they are already all in well paying jobs as third level professors of German literature and just decide to live in cheap shitholes.

How do you decide where people are from?

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lol. He was deported and came back and was allowed to stay. Acted the bollix and was fucked out again

Sickened.

Sure here is another one. Deportation order lifted and granted leave to remain. Again it satisfies your criteria - he was issued with deportation orders and allowed to stay.

He was deported - check
Did he stay beyond his deportation? - Nope
Was his deportation deemed officially over hasty? - check
Was he granted a legal temporary extension to his residency here? - check
Was he then deported? - check
Did he stay beyond that deportation? - Nope

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

He was deported - check
Did he stay beyond his deportation? - Nope
Was his deportation deemed officially over hasty? - check
Was he granted a legal temporary extension to his residency here? - check
Was he then deported? - check
Did he stay beyond that deportation? - Nope

Lol.

So what you need is an example who was physically deported, not given leave to return, but is still here.

As I said, lol

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lol. He was deported and came back and was allowed to stay. Acted the bollix and was fucked out again

Sickened.

Sure here is another one. Deportation order lifted and granted leave to remain. Again it satisfies your criteria - he was issued with deportation orders and allowed to stay.

Nope - leave to remain is a ministerial reprieve which overturns a deportation order. It’s perfectly legal and above board. It also marks the end of the process, it’s not after it.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

This is a nation-State. Citizenship rights equates to nationality.

But Irish Citizenship rights do not equate to Irishness.

As you originally claimed.

Irish isn’t ‘anyone’. It’s those who hold Irish citizenship. Regardless of any other criteria. It’s the sole meaningful criteria for determining their Irishness.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112460749&postcount=179

Otherwise we might as well say that Sheikh Khalid bin Mahfouz and Khalid Sabih Masri, et al, exhibited their Irishness by virtue of their holding the passport that it is the privilege of Irish citizens to hold.

But that would be just sophistry.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lol.

So what you need is an example who was physically deported, not given leave to return, but is still here.

As I said, lol

Nope. What I want is evidence of one of these supposed thousands who were issued with deportation orders, and who remain here illegally, after the process was complete. There’s allegedly THOUSANDS of them - and yet nobody has uncovered a singular instance of their existence.

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

But Irish Citizenship rights do not equate to Irishness.

As you originally claimed.



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112460749&postcount=179

Otherwise we might as well say that Sheikh Khalid bin Mahfouz and Khalid Sabih Masri, et al, exhibited their Irishness by virtue of their holding the passport that it is the privilege of Irish citizens to hold.

But that would be just sophistry.

Irish is a nationality, and that nationality equates to citizenship rights. So sure - producing an Irish passport is certainly confirmation of that nationality.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

Nope. What I want is evidence of one of these supposed thousands who were issued with deportation orders, and who remain here illegally, after the process was complete. There’s allegedly THOUSANDS of them - and yet nobody has uncovered a singular instance of their existence.

Here is one. Issued deportation orders in 2005.

She was still here illegally in 2011.

Having entered the country illegally and claimed asylum on the back of false claims meant that her status here was illegal.

Same as if you entered the US by making a false declaration on your Visa Waiver program. Your status there would be illegal.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Here is one. Issued deportation orders in 2005.

She was still here illegally in 2011.

Having entered the country illegally and claimed asylum on the back of false claims meant that her status here was illegal.

Same as if you entered the US by making a false declaration on your Visa Waiver program. Your status there would be illegal.

Nope. She was deported. She was deported a month after her final appeal failed. So she didn’t remain past the process completion.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

Nope. She was deported. She was deported a month after her final appeal failed. So she didn’t remain past the process completion.

Lol. How much shifting of the goalposts are you going to do? You have to be trying to wind people up.

The bould Pamela stayed here illegally for more than 6 years after her deportation order and it doesn't count because she was eventually deported.

The Chinese fella doesn't count because he wasn't deported after being issued with his deportation order.

So we need to find an example of someone who was physically deported. But also at the same time wasn't physically deported.

What next, we find an example of someone who was issued deportation orders 10 years ago and who wasn't found and you'll tell us that it doesn't count because they could be found before they die.

Then we find an example of someone who died while in hiding from deportation and you'll tell us it doesn't count because they did not live in Ireland for the rest of eternity.

You're gas

:pac:

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lol. How much shifting of the goalposts are you going to do? You have to be trying to wind people up.

The bould Pamela stayed here illegally for more than 6 years after her deportation order and it doesn't count because she was eventually deported.

The Chinese fella doesn't count because he wasn't deported after being issued with his deportation order.

So we need to find an example of someone who was physically deported. But also at the same time wasn't physically deported.

What next, we find an example of someone who was issued deportation orders 10 years ago and who wasn't found and you'll tell us that it doesn't count because they could be found before they die.

Then we find an example of someone who died while in hiding from deportation and you'll tell us it doesn't count because they did not live in Ireland for the rest of eternity.

You're gas

:pac:

I’ve not shifted any goalposts. You’ve simply not been able to support your claim. I’m not looking for someone who was physically deported - Don’t know where you pulled that one from - your claim is that there are people here who were issued with deportation orders, but nobody bothered to enforce those deportations after they didn’t leave, and they remain here, illegally, now. That’s the unicorn you’re supposed to find.

That, by definition, excludes people who
Were deported through enforcement
Were granted leave to remain
Are (legally) appealing their deportation, but are known to authorities
Are awaiting (legally) a sibling’s or parent’s claim, which would allow them to remain under family reunification

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

Irish is a nationality, and that nationality equates to citizenship rights. So sure - producing an Irish passport is certainly confirmation of that nationality.

While simultaneously confirming absolutely NOTHING about Irishness.

But I realise you are only pretending to not comprehend.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

I’ve not shifted any goalposts. You’ve simply not been able to support your claim.

What claim exactly is this? That a black person in the US is entitled to identify as an African American?

Here is a cache of a page from the Migrants Rights Centre Ireland.

You may have been issued a deportation order in the past without your knowledge. This may be for a number of reasons; you could have failed to respond to a correspondence, this could be as a result of changing your address or post not reaching you.

But surely this is impossible given that they all leave as soon as the orders are issued??? Is that not what you are saying? (It just took the bould Pamela 6 years to get to the airport because the buses were slow and she needed to take a quick million-Euro detour of the legal system on the way)

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

While simultaneously confirming absolutely NOTHING about Irishness.

But I realise you are only pretending to not comprehend.

Irishness is the condition of being Irish. What do you believe it to be?

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

What claim exactly is this? That a black person in the US is entitled to identify as an African American?

Here is a cache of a page from the Migrants Rights Centre Ireland.



But surely this is impossible given that they all leave as soon as the orders are issued??? Is that not what you are saying? (It just took the bould Pamela 6 years to get to the airport because the buses were slow and she needed to take a quick million-Euro detour of the legal system on the way)

You made the claim - are you saying you don’t understand the claim you made now?
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112465472&postcount=302

Pamela appealed the decision - legally. Once that appeal process was exhausted, she was deported. She didn’t remain here beyond the end of the process.