Immigration and the housing crisis

dxhound2005

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yea its a major mess, we ll eventually be forced into dealing with these issues, but humans being humans, we ll keep kicking those cans as long as we can

I'm good with that. Unless we get this big Change in the election, and turn into a socialist Utopia.

Wanderer78

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm good with that. Unless we get this big Change in the election, and turn into a socialist Utopia.

we cant keep kicking cans, it wont work in the long run. i really cant see much changing in irish politics anytime soon, ffg have it blocked up, and theres no real alternatives yet anyway, even though the next few weeks look interesting. utopias are ridiculous, including our current utopic idea of free market libertarianism

Pronto63

joeysoap wrote: »

To be fair the number of asylum seekers isn’t the whole story. How come Portugal has 30% of the applicants we have? Is it picking and choosing? Or something else.? More than double our population too.

Check out Portugals social welfare rates!

enricoh

Pronto63 wrote: »

Check out Portugals social welfare rates!

Got it in one!

rgossip30

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When lending rules were relaxed, it became easy to borrow enough to buy a house. Which prompted a lot of building. That was during the so called Tiger, and turned out to be a big mistake.

Before that and since, lending rules makes it harder to afford loan repayments. At no time before the Tiger was it easy to buy a house. Even though there was no immigration. It was so difficult that in the 1980's the government had to introduce a £3,000 first time buyers grant.

And mortgage interest rates were increased regularly, unlike now. My repayments went from what would now be the equivalent of €1,000 going up to €1,600 a month, in the course of a few months, shortly after I got a mortgage.

In the late 70's Ireland had the second highest home ownership in the world despite high unemployment .You need to have saved in a bank account for 2 years my deposit was 25% of the amount borrowed .

greenfield21

https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114111-election-exit-poll/

Just 1% for immigration, housing in second, interesting.

Mad_maxx

rgossip30 wrote: »

In the late 70's Ireland had the second highest home ownership in the world despite high unemployment .You need to have saved in a bank account for 2 years my deposit was 25% of the amount borrowed .

while there are numerous differences between that period and today to make it another country entirely

an interesting one is that the price difference between dublin and the rest of the country back then was tiny relative to today

the economies of the west and indeed the world in general have become far more urbanised , ireland was late experiencing this and with our horribly outdated planning laws , were in a particularly poor position to deal with the changes facing us

Harry Palmr

No one is making a real political connection between the two it seems.

Fritzbox

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If we got the millions of Irish people back in exchange, the problem would be worse. But there is no need to send anyone home, because we have 200,000 empty houses. The population went up by over a million since the year 2000. Back then some people thought the country was full.

You would want to be very careful quoting 200,000 empty houses in Ireland. That particular CSO statistic derived from 2016 census results has later been proven to be unreliable, to say the least. 1000 empty houses may be more accurate.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-vacant-homes-in-dublin-said-to-be-between-900-and-1-000-1.3368771

The number of vacant homes in parts of Dublin has been overstated by more than 30 times the actual total, figures from the Department of Housing show.

The Central Statistics Office said last year it had identified about 30,000 vacant dwellings across the capital’s four local authority areas. However, figures from the Department of Housing indicate the true number is likely between 900 and 1,000...

...Using reports from Census 2016 enumerators, the CSO said last year there were 183,000 vacant residential properties across the State, of which 30,000 were in Dublin. Commentators and local authority officials subsequently cast doubt on the numbers...

antoinolachtnai

Fritzbox wrote: »

You would want to be very careful quoting 200,000 empty houses in Ireland. That particular CSO statistic derived from 2016 census results has later been proven to be unreliable, to say the least. 1000 empty houses may be more accurate.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-vacant-homes-in-dublin-said-to-be-between-900-and-1-000-1.3368771

CSO has rebutted this.

It is not a ‘particular statistic’. It is a building block of the whole census.

If these 200,000 houses were in fact occupied then the whole census from top to bottom, especially the total figure for the number living in Ireland is wrong. The vacancy figure is critical in calculating the overall population.

Fritzbox

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

CSO has rebutted this.

Unsuccessfully, I'd say. Have you a source, link?

It is not a ‘particular statistic’. It is a building block of the whole census.

If these 200,000 houses were in fact occupied then the whole census from top to bottom, especially the total figure for the number living in Ireland is wrong. The vacancy figure is critical in calculating the overall population.

Well the "building blocks" are supported upon a very shaky foundation.

There is no reason to believe these 200,000 houses were empty, just because the census enumerators knocked on the door and didn't get an answer.

Do you seriously think that the Irish census is a reliable and accurate method in gaining an accurate picture of the Irish demographic landscape? I don't.

Here's a link for you describing just how accurate the Irish census is:

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/10/09/only-three-travellers-over-the-age-of-65-in-east-limerick/

One of the key findings of the assessment is that less than 50 per cent of Travellers living in East Limerick were identified in the 2016 census, meaning that the Traveller community in the area is twice as large as was previously recorded.

alastair

I’m no statistician, but I’m struggling with how 30 x 1000 becomes 200,000?
(Ah - I see - comparing apples with oranges)

And the notion that there’s a mere 1000 unoccupied houses in a Ireland is frankly, silly.

Fritzbox

alastair wrote: »

I’m no statistician, but I’m struggling with how 30 x 1000 becomes 200,000?

That's 30,000 allegedly empty houses in the Dublin area.

And the notion that there’s a mere 1000 unoccupied houses in a Ireland is frankly, silly.

Yeah, you're probably right, but I'd imagine it's more accurate than 200,000 figure.

antoinolachtnai

Fritzbox wrote: »

Unsuccessfully, I'd say. Have you a source, link?



Well the "building blocks" are supported upon a very shaky foundation.

There is no reason to believe these 200,000 houses were empty, just because the census enumerators knocked on the door and didn't get an answer.

Do you seriously think that the Irish census is a reliable and accurate method in gaining an accurate picture of the Irish demographic landscape? I don't.

Here's a link for you describing just how accurate the Irish census is:

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/10/09/only-three-travellers-over-the-age-of-65-in-east-limerick/

You are going down the route of arguing that there are a half million extra people living in the country that haven’t been counted in the census.

The CSO methodology is clear and they have a breakdown of these vacant houses. Fingal in the other hand have no methodology and a vested interest.

Rufeo

If they could build more residential properties in Dublin it would be great.

It's not the fault of foreigners that our lot are useless at urban planning.

Fritzbox

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are going down the route of arguing that there are a half million extra people living in the country that haven’t been counted in the census.

I am, almost. Although I would have said that there was, at most, 300,000 people unaccounted for - half a million would be quite steep.

The CSO methodology is clear and they have a breakdown of these vacant houses. Fingal in the other hand have no methodology and a vested interest.

THe CSO's methodology is quite clear and it's obvious that they have no idea how many people are living in the country - sure why would they?

Not sure what Fingal County Council with the Irish census count - they were trying to count empty houses - and failed.

antoinolachtnai

Fritzbox wrote: »

THe CSO's methodology is quite clear and it's obvious that they have no idea how many people are living in the country - sure why would they?

Tell us how that follows from the CSO’s clear methodology.

Fritzbox

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Tell us how that follows from the CSO’s clear methodology.

Because not everybody fills in and hands over the census forms.

Have you anything else to add to the CSO's methodology and practices regarding the Irish census?

Pauliedragon

I tell ya something lads. When I was a "foreigner" I was fed up of the constant paddy jokes and this "to be sure to be sure bull****". We're all citizens of the world who gives a flying **** which country we hail from. Rant over lets just get along regardless of where we come from is that so hard?

Fritzbox

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I tell ya something lads. When I was a "foreigner" I was fed up of the constant paddy jokes and this "to be sure to be sure bull****". We're all citizens of the world who gives a flying **** which country we hail from. Rant over **** off lads lets just get along regardless of where we come from.

Me? I'm a furriner right now here in Germany, so I know how you feel - or felt.

antoinolachtnai

Fritzbox wrote: »

Because not everybody fills in and hands over the census forms.

Have you anything else to add to the CSO's methodology and practices regarding the Irish census?

That is just not how the count is done. Not filling in a form doesn’t mean you won’t be counted in the census. You have no idea how the census is actuallycarried out

rgossip30

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

That is just not how the count is done. Not filling in a form doesn’t mean you won’t be counted in the census. You have no idea how the census is actuallycarried out

What other means is there for counting the population in that case?

Fritzbox wrote: »

Because not everybody fills in and hands over the census forms.

Have you anything else to add to the CSO's methodology and practices regarding the Irish census?

Many illegals failed asylum seekers who remain continue to live with relatives etc they would not be put on the census form .

ifElseThen

Fritzbox wrote: »

Me? I'm a furriner right now here in Germany, so I know how you feel - or felt.

Are you claiming asylum there or contributing to the economy?

The Nal

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I tell ya something lads. When I was a "foreigner" I was fed up of the constant paddy jokes and this "to be sure to be sure bull****". We're all citizens of the world who gives a flying **** which country we hail from. Rant over lets just get along regardless of where we come from is that so hard?

Soros funded globalist alert!

Thelonious Monk

My partner's flat is right in the IFSC, most of her fellow building dwellers seem to be fordiners alright, but then the multinationals that are based in the area need a lot of foreign workers.
Directly across the river from IFSC you have low density social housing looking onto the river for God's sake. Why the hell should people get to live there for next to nothing? They should be demolished and some kind of high rise apartments put there for social and private use. Around Lombard St, Townsend St, Pearse St etc has so much social housing that should be redeveloped in my opinion, it's ridiculously short sighted for people to be housed there this way in the first place.

alastair

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My partner's flat is right in the IFSC, most of her fellow building dwellers seem to be fordiners alright, but then the multinationals that are based in the area need a lot of foreign workers.
Directly across the river from IFSC you have low density social housing looking onto the river for God's sake. Why the hell should people get to live there for next to nothing? They should be demolished and some kind of high rise apartments put there for social and private use. Around Lombard St, Townsend St, Pearse St etc has so much social housing that should be redeveloped in my opinion, it's ridiculously short sighted for people to be housed there this way in the first place.

Why would you go demolishing people’s homes when there’s brownfield sites nearby that can be used for exactly the same purposes?

Thelonious Monk

alastair wrote: »

Why would you go demolishing people’s homes when there’s brownfield sites nearby that can be used for exactly the same purposes?

Are there sites nearby? I would redevlop because its very wasteful use of prime land.

alastair

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Are there sites nearby? I would redevlop because its very wasteful use of prime land.

They are. People’s homes are rather more useful than unused land.

lainey_d_123

alastair wrote: »

They are. People’s homes are rather more useful than unused land.

And why are the people who live in them more entitled to live there than people who are working their arses off every day and commuting in from the arse end of Meath? It makes zero sense for people who don't work to live in prime central areas of Dublin. Where exactly do they need to get to?

alastair

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

And why are the people who live in them more entitled to live there than people who are working their arses off every day and commuting in from the arse end of Meath? It makes zero sense for people who don't work to live in prime central areas of Dublin. Where exactly do they need to get to?

Because they’re just as entitled to live in their own homes? What makes you believe they don’t work any less hard? What makes you think they don’t work?