Immigration and the housing crisis

Thelonious Monk

Jizique wrote: »

Well, Japan still seems to be doing ok - GDP per capita is far more relevant that GDP, and with increased automation, we really need to question the need for an ever growing population.

Yes I've no problem with a smiley robot looking after me and changing my nappies when I'm older

rob316

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Not being bad, but plenty of these people's kids won't be contributing in a meaningful way (besides paying VAT). They certainly won't balance what they've claimed from the state social welfare with income taxes.

I live in a social housing block of 6 houses, I can only think of one person in all 6 houses that doesn't work. All the kids are out working, in college or have moved out.
I won't be having any more kids till I have bought a house, I'm eternally grateful for the help I've got from the state/taxpayer when I was young up to now and its enabled me to build a career and put me in a position to own my home. I will vacate soon and I will leave behind a well furnished, well kept home that I hope will go to another young hard working family.

There is plenty of good hard working people in social housing.

Which goes back to my point, we have to look after the people who are getting up every morning and/or out there educating themselves for the future, you give them a helping hand. We have to actively discourage doing a life sentence on SW.

In the Vienna model, everyone pays a 1% levy to pay for the social housing. I wouldn't have a problem paying that provided it went to working families or in exceptional circumstances been housed. A home that your children could live in while starting a career or in college and not having the eyeballs robbed out your head for.

I know it sounds like a socialist dream but no crisis is solved without radical thinking.

peter kern

beejee wrote: »

I could say that, but it's not entirely true.

Housing is a joke, health care is semi-disastrous.

All the government's did was swap one set of a problems for another.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if we had had a pair of penguins running the country, it would have happened anyway. No control, no planning.

Watch another recession drop on us like a bomb, the penguins screaming, and then back to massive unemployment and woe-be-god emigration again. The penguins have no impact.

This country has no control or direction. At least a pair of penguins could be amusing in the meantime.

To add, they didn't "manage" to increase the population, people fluted in because there was something to get here, and they weren't stopped.

It's interesting how dismissive you are to Irish politicians that have the top jobs in the country, yet complain that many don't think the Irish are smart enough for high skilled jobs...

riclad

Many sectors of the economy like hotel,s tourism ,retail would go out of business,
if the non nationals left ireland, we are in a boom, there are simply not enough young irish people here to work in retail,coffee shops etc
We have a birth rate that,s declining .
The economy is kept going by people coming here every year, mostly from eu countrys.Young people here now maybe do not remember the 80,s when people had to leave ireland to get a job.
It,s hard to find a shop thats only staffed by irish born workers.

FreeThePants

riclad wrote: »

Young people here now maybe do not remember the 80,s when people had to leave ireland to get a job.

We very much remember around 2008-14 though.

kildare lad

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

It's growing because of immigration, some of which is legitimate and some is not.
Unfortunately there is a not insignificant problem with bogus asylum seekers (and one wonders how many came here through family reunification based on asylum granted where it shouldn't have been), sham marriages and English language schools that really just serve to get people in the country to work (and thus suppress wages for the Irish working class).

There is also the issue of culture. Some say that they are happy with people coming here as long as they are willing to work; that sounds good in theory. However if we take the first generation of British Pakistanis for example, I have no doubt that most of them worked hard, there being little in the way of social welfare in the 1950s. By the third generation, there are now serious problems with Islamism, sexual abuse, cousin marriage, welfare dependence etc. It shouldn't need to be said, but obviously there are many British Pakistanis not involved in any of that.

Ye the amount of them getting done for sex crimes is unreal, you can look at London as well with the amount of black teenagers killing each other. My uncle lived in Birmingham for 40 years and moved back to Ireland when he got his pension . He was the last white person left on his road. Once more of them moved in all the white people move out. The local pubs close because they don't drink , we went and visited him and you may as well have been in Bangladesh .

Boggles

kildare lad wrote: »

Ye the amount of them getting done for sex crimes is unreal, you can look at London as well with the amount of black teenagers killing each other. My uncle lived in Birmingham for 40 years and moved back to Ireland when he got his pension . He was the last white person left on his road. Once more of them moved in all the white people move out. The local pubs close because they don't drink , we went and visited him and you may as well have been in Bangladesh .

Jaysus, is that intentional irony?

4068ac1elhodqr

riclad wrote: »

Many sectors of the economy like hotel,s tourism ,retail would go out of business,
if the non nationals left ireland, we are in a boom, there are simply not enough young irish people here to work in retail,coffee shops etc
We have a birth rate that,s declining .
The economy is kept going by people coming here every year, mostly from eu countrys.Young people here now maybe do not remember the 80,s when people had to leave ireland to get a job.
It,s hard to find a shop thats only staffed by irish born workers.

Although your writing style and content is very difficult to decipher (to say the least), it seems you're suggesting there is going to be growth in the retail sector, and growth that requires human assets?

If so you'd be advised to check that again. Amazon's (automated) warehouses are putting an end to the entire retail sector, year by year.
(Automated) tills and wireless transactions are another fun feature to expect going forward.

E.g. A quick look at the uk's similar economy for 2019 shows:
The worst on record for British retail, according to the British Retail Consortium (BRC) and advisory firm KPMG, actually the worst since they began monitoring the sector back in 1995.

The figures shine a light on a terrible year for the high street during which thousands of stores have closed and 140,000 shop staff have lost their jobs. A string of well-known names have been forced to call in administrators.

Could list the brands of chain stores that have gone down the toilet over in the uk, but with about 6,000 stores with shutters up we'd be here all day.
Even accounting for new stores (poundstores, charidys and bookies), it's still a net loss of thousands.

Thus: 'automation is the future', and the retail sector will be one of the very 1st to get gradually rammed by this 4th industrial reveloution.

Chinasea

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus, is that intentional irony?

Just blatant deluded ignorance. These people actually believe the Irish have a right of passage.

Lefty Bicek

Chinasea wrote: »

Just blatant deluded ignorance. These people actually believe the Irish have a right of passage.

Well, the Common Travel Area is a matter of fact, and so immediately places the Irish in Britain on a different footing to the 'overseas territories'. So the Irish do have rights that not everyone else enjoys.

If at any time the British had decided otherwise, then that was their right to do so, and would have had to be respected. I realise the idea that nations have the right to decide who they wish to host will come as a shock to some.

In any case, taken in the round, the Irish in Britain have made a VAST positive contribution going back decades upon decades.

It is simply a fact that some immigrant groups in Britain have integrated much more willingly than others. Some have nothing but chips on their shoulders and an absolute determination to make no effort whatsoever to assimilate.

The difference as we stand today, is that the Irish do not owe anyone a welcome in payback for having invaded and exploited every corner of the world.

We will be far better off to avoid the situation that now pertains in Britain, where too many of it's urban areas are sh1tholes of multikulti anomie.

Irish people who don't agree that life is better here, are still free to get their superficial one-world jollies across the channel.

4068ac1elhodqr

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

In any case, taken in the round, the Irish in Britain have made a VAST positive contribution going back decades upon decades.

Agree, from laying roads, building houses, and on to Teachers and Nurses.
Even in the last 10yrs of the Irish in the uk are in more professional type occupations that the average British citizen there.

The strange thing is that these many decades of 'natural' neighbourly movement of people (with a somewhat shared culture), have all been overtaken in just a few short years by the EU2, thousands of miiles away.

Lollipops23

rob316 wrote: »

I live in a social housing block of 6 houses, I can only think of one person in all 6 houses that doesn't work. All the kids are out working, in college or have moved out.
I won't be having any more kids till I have bought a house, I'm eternally grateful for the help I've got from the state/taxpayer when I was young up to now and its enabled me to build a career and put me in a position to own my home. I will vacate soon and I will leave behind a well furnished, well kept home that I hope will go to another young hard working family.

I'm not really talking about your generation of people raised in social housing; hell, my own dad was, as were most of the uncles and aunties who married into our family. They all did grand for themselves and bought privately when they got married, and it sounds like you're about to do the same, which is bloody commendable in this day and age.

I'm talking about the current wave of kids being brought up in social housing, whose parents were brought up in social housing, and their parents before them. The ones who have opted for a certain lifestyle and don't seem to be imparting much motivation for different in their kids.

It sounds like you're the scenario that's SUPPOSED to happen; lived in social housing, did whatever you could to change your circumstances, and will soon reap the rewards of your graft. Fair play & best of luck.

Chinasea

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Well, the Common Travel Area is a matter of fact, and so immediately places the Irish in Britain on a different footing to the 'overseas

Irish people who don't agree that life is better here, are still free to get their superficial one-world jollies across the channel.

We were and still are very much a nation of immigrants, long before and regardless of treatys, boarders. But nationalistic, look after our own first, myopic opinions like this are just pure backward..

Boggles

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

The figures shine a light on a terrible year for the high street during which thousands of stores have closed and 140,000 shop staff have lost their jobs. A string of well-known names have been forced to call in administrators.
.

That is a disingenuous stat.

The reality is there is more than enough jobs for all 140,000 to go back into which they have and there is currently a shortage of retail workers.

But I did point out to you before if I am not mistaken.

ifElseThen

riclad wrote: »

Many sectors of the economy like hotel,s tourism ,retail would go out of business,
if the non nationals left ireland, we are in a boom, there are simply not enough young irish people here to work in retail,coffee shops etc
We have a birth rate that,s declining .
The economy is kept going by people coming here every year, mostly from eu countrys.Young people here now maybe do not remember the 80,s when people had to leave ireland to get a job.
It,s hard to find a shop thats only staffed by irish born workers.

This is part of the problem. We are attracting all categories of workers in when really we should be targeting those above a certain wage. If someone works in a hotel on minimum wage -v- someone who works in tech on a high wage, they still both need a roof over their head. I think it's more to do with the fact that hotels and retail want cheap labour instead of paying a decent wage which would attract people into those sectors.

We are simply importing more people to inflate they cycle of consumerism. More people in the country = more public servants needed = more coffee shops = more building etc.

You can see why the gov want to quickly import people -v- encouraging natural population growth over time through births.

4068ac1elhodqr

Boggles wrote: »

That is a disingenuous stat.
The reality is there is more than enough jobs for all 140,000 to go back into which they have and there is currently a shortage of retail workers.

Maybe send your bizzare explanation of 'great times for retail' over to the British Retail Consortium (BRC) via advisory firm KPMG.

They said 2019 actually the worst since they began monitoring the sector back in 1995. 6,000 stores closed, big names gone, and 140,000 jobs down the drain. Sure they'll enjoy a good belly laugh.:)

Sure there is a few jobs advertised for retail, this has alway been the case and typical in a minimum wage type sector, with very high continuous turnover of unskilled staff.

Boggles

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

Maybe send your bizzare explanation of 'great times for retail' over to the British Retail Consortium (BRC) via advisory firm KPMG.

They said 2019 actually the worst since they began monitoring the sector back in 1995. 6,000 stores closed, big names gone, and 140,000 jobs down the drain. Sure they'll enjoy a good belly laugh.:)

Sure there is a few jobs advertised for retail, this has alway been the case and typical in a minimum wage type sector, with very high continuous turnover of unskilled staff.

Yeah, we have been through this.

Amazon are hiring 1000s of staff as are all other wholesalers.

As for a "few jobs".

broader retail and wholesale sector — which employs about 5m people — had 131,000 unfilled posts in August, the highest of any sector except health and social work, which had 138,000.

4068ac1elhodqr

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah, we have been through this.
Amazon are hiring 1000s of staff as are all other wholesalers.

Oh yeah, we have been through this (eyeroll)
You are quoting Amazon's 'global' workforce, which is a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the amount of jobs they will replace... globally.

Boggles wrote: »

As for a "few jobs".

As for a 'few jobs' send your (unsourced) findings to the BRC, again after a terrible year (the worst on their records) they'll enjoy a good laugh.

With 3m retail workers (and dropping) in the uk, (the largest private sector). There is always going to be a few thousand jobs advertised, with no real skill requirements, staff turnover on min wage is going to be huge regardless.

Boggles

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

You are quoting Amazon's 'global' workforce,

No I'm not.

Amazon to create 2,000 UK jobs and take its British workforce to almost 30,000

Automated jobs just create new types of jobs, the UK is at full employment and they are struggling to fill 100s of 1000s of vacancies which is costing firms billions annually.

Stop going all Sarah Connors it will be a while yet if at all before they become aware.

4068ac1elhodqr

Boggles wrote: »

No I'm not.
Amazon to create 2,000 UK jobs and take its British workforce to almost 30,000
Automated jobs just create new types of jobs, the UK is at full employment and they are struggling to fill 100s of 1000s of vacancies which is costing firms billions annually...

2,000? Amzn jobs for 2019 lol!. Ah now, even just for the uk, this is a small, tiny pishh in the ocean, catch yourself on. 'Two thousand jobs', wowie.

Even having a longer term 30k of staff is nothing, in a sector that employs millions, and is collapsing year on year (thanks actually mainly to amazon).

Automated jobs creates new 'SKILLED' jobs, you can't go from shop till bag filler (it's getting DIY now anwyay), over to compiling ai python scripts after a couple of weeks training.

There will always be jobs offered, as employers will always have wide open doors for anyone to take up a zero-hour, min wage job, if they can replace someone else and save a few cents.

Boggles

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

Automated jobs creates new 'SKILLED' jobs, you can't go from shop till bag filler (it's getting DIY now anwyay), over to compiling ai python scripts after a couple of weeks training.

No one suggest they would or should.

In the same way when the tractor replaced jobs 100 years ago, they didn't all rush out and become tractor engineers. Some upskilled, some diversified, it happened here 30 years ago, we are now at full employment.

Again though the point remains, the UK are also at full employment and cannot fill the roles that are currently on offer in "low skilled" vacancies, this is projected to get much worse after Brexit.

The far right talking point of automation being an excuse not to allow immigration is just plain silly.

4068ac1elhodqr

Boggles wrote: »

No one suggest they would or should.
In the same way when the tractor replaced jobs 100 years ago, they didn't all rush out and become tractor engineers. Some upskilled, some diversified, it happened here 30 years ago, we are now at full employment.
Again though the point remains, the UK are also at full employment and cannot fill the roles that are currently on offer in "low skilled" vacancies, this is projected to get much worse after Brexit.
The far right talking point of automation being an excuse not to allow immigration is just plain silly.

The uninformed, far-left have to resort to talking about tractors of 100yrs ago out of desperation, it's really quite sad, and desperate clutch to the past.

The uk are now introducing a points system as the like others with genuine research, understand the impacts of automation and the need for skilled migration. Only skilled.

They see the success of places such as Australia and want to wisely replicate. Shop till workers from timbuktu won't get a second look. Only exception are a few (seasonal) workers who may get a different class of visa, a temporay visa.
You can call Boris's new policy 'far-right' if you want, because of this. But again it will only further highlight your extreme bias, silly name calling, and even perhaps sheer ignorance of the future.

ifElseThen

ifElseThen wrote: »

This is part of the problem. We are attracting all categories of workers in when really we should be targeting those above a certain wage............

You can't attract those above a certain wage without attracting those on lower wages.

Boggles

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

The uninformed, far-left have to resort to talking about tractors of 100yrs ago out of desperation, it's really quite sad, and desperate clutch to the past.

The uk are now introducing a points system as the like others with genuine research, understand the impacts of automation and the need for skilled migration. Only skilled.

They see the success of places such as Australia and want to wisely replicate. Shop till workers from timbuktu won't get a second look. Only exception are a few (seasonal) workers who may get a different class of visa, a temporay visa.
You can call Boris's new policy 'far-right' if you want, because of this. But again it will only further highlight your extreme bias, silly name calling, and even perhaps sheer ignorance of the future.

Now isn't 100 years ago, we and Britain are at full employment as is large swathes of the rest of the world.

'But but but robots...fordiners...something...something'. It's boring and above all not based on reality.

I never called Boris "far-right", because well he isn't.

He has been pushing an amnesty for the irregular in Britain for years.

4068ac1elhodqr

Boggles wrote: »

Now isn't 100 years ago

So don't compare two totally different industrial reveloutions as like-for-like, it's rather embarrassing.

Boggles wrote: »

we and Britain are at full employment as is large swathes of the rest of the world.

Depends how you fudge the figures, including part-timers and zero-hour contracts.

All modern states are now also looking seriously at UBI, even running election campaigns upon it, as they rightly recongnise the impact of automation and the expected growing welfare state (something which bores you yes, but that you should actually research properly).

Boggles wrote: »

I never called Boris "far-right", because well he isn't.

Good to hear you support his policies, including points-based migration. Maybe you'd also support his advisor Patel too?[/QUOTE]

Lefty Bicek

Chinasea wrote: »

We were and still are very much a nation of immigrants, long before and regardless of treatys, boarders. But nationalistic, look after our own first, myopic opinions like this are just pure backward..

Meanwhile, in the real world...

The Republic of Ireland exists. It's first obligation is to 'look after it's own first'. Otherwise it actually has no reason to exist.

You can always give up your citizenship if you don't like that obvious truth.

Now, if 'looking after our own' means attracting 100,000 doctors, surgeons, engineers, or any other kind of positive contributors, then bring them in. I couldn't care less where in the world they come from.

But - 'When in Rome...' etc

We don't need non-contributing 'backward' malcontents. Some of us who have real experience of how this can play out in a generation or two, aren't interested in uninformed optimism about the human condition.

If you disagree, then feel free to cross the channel and live out your one-world fantasy. Send us a postcard from Savile Town.

jonnreeks

It's claimed 81,712 vacant properties exist in Ireland according to a recent report from Geo Directory!

The same report identified over 21,140 derelict units across the country.

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2023/0803/1397887-derelict-ireland-why-so-many-of-our-properties-lie-empty/

Beasty

We have plenty of current threads covering these topics

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