Immigration and the housing crisis

Ten of Swords

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FreeThePants

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I always find it truly amazing how some people with shoot their mouths off about foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin and how great he is working in New York/London/Sydney. Takes a special kind of thick.

I've been an immigrant in other countries and had people rant and rave about how awful immigrants are to me in those countries. But they were complaining to me as if I were a like minded countryman of theirs, not an immigrant myself. I have on more than one occasion been corrected after telling someone I am an immigrant myself, to tell me I am an 'expat' (a term I really, really hate).

I always have to wonder how much both of these have to do with my being white, and from an English speaking western nation.

Arghus

beejee wrote: »

Remember that ancient relative in your family that murdered someone in 1758?

Well that means you'll be grand if someone murders you. Fair is fair after all. Makes sense.

Answers on a postcard please.

beejee

Arghus wrote: »

Answers on a postcard please.

Here's the answer: it's naive to the point of idiocy to conflate a world centuries ago where people went on "coffin" ships for months to some randomer getting a 20 quid Ryanair flight to social welfare land.

Wildly Boaring

FreeThePants wrote: »

I've been an immigrant in other countries and had people rant and rave about how awful immigrants are to me in those countries. But they were complaining to me as if I were a like minded countryman of theirs, not an immigrant myself. I have on more than one occasion been corrected after telling someone I am an immigrant myself, to tell me I am an 'expat' (a term I really, really hate).

I always have to wonder how much both of these have to do with my being white, and from an English speaking western nation.

Snap
The English are great for it.
"Ah sure no I mean real foreigners..."

sk8erboii

DelaneyIn wrote: »

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national and rents there are 20% higher than the Dublin average.

Is this fair to Irish workers some of whom can't afford to live in Dublin and are having to consider emigration or moving out of the city? Is is an example of gentrification pushing up rents, as landlords bring in high paying tenants from abroad? Quite apart from the housing crisis.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/92-of-renters-in-dublins-docklands-were-not-from-ireland-978395.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This article shows that huge numbers of immigrants are in receipt of social housing too.



https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Is one of the main causes of the housing crisis immigration? It seems so yet it’s never discussed when debating the issue.

Are you for f*cking real? Thats like setting your entire house on fire but hey atleast no more termite problems.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

An accident resulted in one their forever homes being damaged. Council comes in to fix it for them. Neighbour "falls" over construction work...straight on the compo bandwagon.

People need to snap the fook out of it about a lot of these angels.

More Irish then the Irish themselves

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Here's the answer: it's naive to the point of idiocy to conflate a world centuries ago where people went on "coffin" ships for months to some randomer getting a 20 quid Ryanair flight to social welfare land.

But the people renting apartments in dock lands are earning huge money? Are you confused?

Wildly Boaring

When Mary Lou was promising last night that demographics would sort the pension age, what do you think she meant?

We need immigrants very badly. Our population is aging fast. We offered and continue to offer early retirement to a bunch of middle ranking civil servants. We continue to offer free travel and GP care without means testing to the pensioners. Without immigrants to contribute to the tax take we're screwed.

beejee

Stheno wrote: »

But the people renting apartments in dock lands are earning huge money? Are you confused?

Here's the scenario.

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

Scamming foreigners getting on the social welfare lark in addition to the home grown ones.

It's a pincer move that absolutely wrecks society.

It's not the only problem, but it is basically taboo to even mention it. You have to be some gigantic ignoramus to not realise something so obvious.

beejee

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

When Mary Lou was promising last night that demographics would sort the pension age, what do you think she meant?

We need immigrants very badly. Our population is aging fast. We offered and continue to offer early retirement to a bunch of middle ranking civil servants. We continue to offer free travel and GP care without means testing to the pensioners. Without immigrants to contribute to the tax take we're screwed.

It's cannibalism to me.

"hey, we can solve our problems if we push ourselves out of existence!"

It's a chicken-hearted non-solution. But people keep buying it so far, let's see how long it lasts.

corner of hells

beejee wrote: »

Here's the scenario.

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

Scamming foreigners getting on the social welfare lark in addition to the home grown ones.

It's a pincer move that absolutely wrecks society.

It's not the only problem, but it is basically taboo to even mention it. You have to be some gigantic ignoramus to not realise something so obvious.

A pincer move by high earning foreigners and low earning foreigners, some sort of concerted effort ?
Why do they want to wreck society?

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Here's the scenario.

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

Scamming foreigners getting on the social welfare lark in addition to the home grown ones.

It's a pincer move that absolutely wrecks society.

It's not the only problem, but it is basically taboo to even mention it. You have to be some gigantic ignoramus to not realise something so obvious.

Eh sorry I'm not a gigantic ginormous

I work in IT in docklands and we literally cannot source skilled Irish staff so recruit abroad

Every week I get approached about new jobs
There are 5000 vacancies in IT at the moment in Dublin

ollkiller

beejee wrote: »

Wealthy foreigners pushing Irish people out of the most productive areas.

.

Unless you're planning on rewriting the rules of economics or overturning capitalism areas that are most productive attract the best talent. From all over. That's never gonna change.

Wildly Boaring

beejee wrote: »

It's cannibalism to me.

"hey, we can solve our problems if we push ourselves out of existence!"

It's a chicken-hearted non-solution. But people keep buying it so far, let's see how long it lasts.

So in your opinion do we
Breed our way out of the pension problem
Or
Euthanise our way out of our pension problem

beejee

corner of hells wrote: »

A pincer move by high earning foreigners and low earning foreigners, some sort of concerted effort ?
Why do they want to wreck society?

It's not a concerted effort, it's simply the result of zero forethought.

beejee

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

So in your opinion do we
Breed our way out of the pension problem
Or
Euthanise our way out of our pension problem

Problems (should!) are easily and efficiently described.

Solutions are very complicated.

When a person can't even recognise a problem... What can you do?

FreeThePants

Stheno wrote: »

Eh sorry I'm not a gigantic ginormous

So much better than what he said!

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Problems (should!) are easily and efficiently described.

Solutions are very complicated.

When a person can't even recognise a problem... What can you do?

You don't seem to understand the op it was twofold.
1 docklands renters earn an average of 127k a year and pay high rents I've colleagues

I work in docklands and wouldn't live there if you paid me
2 immigration welfare scams are costing us

Completely separate points.

Tell me what do you work at?

Pauliedragon

FreeThePants wrote: »

I've been an immigrant in other countries and had people rant and rave about how awful immigrants are to me in those countries. But they were complaining to me as if I were a like minded countryman of theirs, not an immigrant myself. I have on more than one occasion been corrected after telling someone I am an immigrant myself, to tell me I am an 'expat' (a term I really, really hate).

I always have to wonder how much both of these have to do with my being white, and from an English speaking western nation.

I've gotten that 100 times aswell. "ah you're Irish you don't count" was a common response when I pointed out I was an immigrant.

beejee

ollkiller wrote: »

Unless you're planning on rewriting the rules of economics or overturning capitalism areas that are most productive attract the best talent. From all over. That's never gonna change.

Created social systems always have an inherent downside. The point is that the upside outweighs the downside.

Fine.

But the sheer acceleration of downsides is fast approaching net negative.

As a country, Ireland, at what point is the "system" working when it's less and less advantageous to the people of that country, Irish people, and more and more disadvantageous?

As I mentioned earlier, this acceleration of immigration is even having social impact within states in the USA. It's a growing problem everywhere.

Or to bring it to its conclusion, consider this: if the top 1% percent of the United States decided to move here, all Irish people should just leave en masse to make room for them because "that's the system"?

This isn't going to last!

RobertKK

Those tech companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc say Dublin is great for them as it has a high concentration of people who speak foreign languages. Then we see a high proportion of people who live in Silicon Docks are foreign - these are the people that these companies want, they pay high taxes and contribute to this country.
Blaming immigrants for a housing problem that is our own responsibility whether from planning, lack of planning and simply not building enough housing - is not the fault of immigrants.

Stheno

beejee wrote: »

Created social systems always have an inherent downside. The point is that the upside outweighs the downside.

Fine.

But the sheer acceleration of downsides is fast approaching net negative.

As a country, Ireland, at what point is the "system" working when it's less and less advantageous to the people of that country, Irish people, and more and more disadvantageous?

As I mentioned earlier, this acceleration of immigration is even having social impact within states in the USA. It's a growing problem everywhere.

Or to bring it to its conclusion, consider this: if the top 1% percent of the United States decided to move here, all Irish people should just leave en masse to make room for them because "that's the system"?

This isn't going to last!

What are you talking about? We have a shortage of skilled labour in Ireland and need to import that labour.
It's that simpme

beejee

Stheno wrote: »

Eh sorry I'm not a gigantic ginormous

I work in IT in docklands and we literally cannot source skilled Irish staff so recruit abroad

Every week I get approached about new jobs
There are 5000 vacancies in IT at the moment in Dublin

Crazy! You know I received a "warning" about that post? Did you report it?

No, it wasn't directed at you personally. But you'll see what you want to see I suppose. "you" as in "anyone", in case you're doubly confused.

If you (anyone) have a business with the capacity for 2 people, you don't hire 10. If you have a country that can support x amount, you don't import more than x.

beejee

Stheno wrote: »

What are you talking about? We have a shortage of skilled labour in Ireland and need to import that labour.
It's that simpme

I have a 3 bedroom house. I need 10'000 people living in it. It's that simple!

Simple, all right

enricoh

Stheno wrote: »

What are you talking about? We have a shortage of skilled labour in Ireland and need to import that labour.
It's that simpme

We had a shortage of labour during the Celtic tiger n imported it.
Now foreigners are twice as likely as native irish to be receiving rent supplement! What asset are these to Ireland?

Clarence Boddiker

RobertKK wrote: »

We need 100,000+++ workers extra in the construction sector, we don't have them here, we need more immigrants to come in and work in construction.

I don't get people who are anti-immigrant, the national party election ad the other night was a disgrace, saying we had too many... when the reality is we need more to fix the country, like building houses, working in health etc

Yes to build houses for more immigrants

Clarence Boddiker

Even a child can figure this out.

The complete denial by some that immigration affects housing availability goes to show that there are a great many people who are placing ideology over reality. These people are dangerous.

beejee

RobertKK wrote: »

Those tech companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc say Dublin is great for them as it has a high concentration of people who speak foreign languages. Then we see a high proportion of people who live in Silicon Docks are foreign - these are the people that these companies want, they pay high taxes and contribute to this country.
Blaming immigrants for a housing problem that is our own responsibility whether from planning, lack of planning and simply not building enough housing - is not the fault of immigrants.

So foreign companies that are enabled to dodge taxes like the clap hire foreign people to fill houses that push prices through the roof.

Where does the average Irish person benefit from this? From the indirect scraps that fall down?

Sounds about as arse backwards as you could get in terms of planning.

I'll add, no wonder these companies think it's great!

Idbatterim

DelaneyIn wrote: »

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national and rents there are 20% higher than the Dublin average.

Is this fair to Irish workers some of whom can't afford to live in Dublin and are having to consider emigration or moving out of the city? Is is an example of gentrification pushing up rents, as landlords bring in high paying tenants from abroad? Quite apart from the housing crisis.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/92-of-renters-in-dublins-docklands-were-not-from-ireland-978395.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This article shows that huge numbers of immigrants are in receipt of social housing too.



https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/huge-scale-of-immigration-is-making-our-housing-crisis-worse-35498057.html

Is one of the main causes of the housing crisis immigration? It seems so yet it’s never discussed when debating the issue.

Many of these workers are on SERIOUS money. I heard e175k on averagevthe other day. Will dig out the link. Also these companies the Golden goose , need these staff. These are the immigrants we want !