Immigration and the housing crisis

enricoh

Snow Garden wrote: »

The Eastern Europeans are leaving in their droves because rents are too high here and their home economies going well. They are leaving major shortages in construction projects. Irish people have stopped doing apprenticeships too which is resulting in huge shortages for skilled plumbers, electricians etc

We get work done in a fabrication shop n last time I was there the usual polish lad had wrapped up n gone back.
The gaffer was saying he's lost a few recently , they won't pay the rents here anymore n Poland is doing well now.
He said plenty of the useless ones are sticking around for the dole n any compo claims going.

cosybeach

I am an immigrate in another country get nothin free i pay my way and work its a good life but many countries are shutting out the s***e we are taking in i see it when i go back we have given them the same SW we should be curtaining on our own we have to few working to pay for it records show 1 continent is milking it.

Yurt2

cosybeach wrote: »

I am an immigrate in another country get nothin free i pay my way and work its a good life but many countries are shutting out the s***e we are taking in i see it when i go back we have given them the same SW we should be curtaining on our own we have to few working to pay for it records show 1 continent is milking it.

Anyone buying or selling a comma?

pjohnson

Yurt! wrote: »

Anyone buying or selling a comma?

Must be tax on commas.

Donald Trump

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I always find it truly amazing how some people with shoot their mouths off about foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin and how great he is working in New York/London/Sydney. Takes a special kind of thick.

Well to be fair, I think they are complaining about the foreigners in subsidised housing or who are in, or waiting in the line for, social housing.


The fair analogy to your anecdote might be if you hear some person shooting their mouths off about the foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin who is signing on and waiting for a nice social house in New York/London/Sydney. But we all know that isn't likely

Salary Negotiator

pjohnson wrote: »

Must be tax on commas.

I always thoughts commas were free but apparently nothin is.

Donald Trump

Marcos wrote: »

It’s not just housing that legal and illegal immigration puts a strain on. Remember the Ringsend sewage spill off from the wastewater plant which was only built in 2003? It was built for a capacity of 1.64 million people. Yet [PHP]according to the EPA[/PHP]

The plant has a capacity to treat waste water from a population equivalent of 1.64 million. The load entering the plant is from a population equivalent of 2.3 million.

2.3 million? That doesn’t tally with official figures for the Greater Dublin Area which puts the population at between 1.8 to 1.9 million or so. So where is the extra 400,000 to 500,000 coming from? And back to the point, what effect are these extra numbers having on housing?

You see it says population equivalent rather than population!



I assume it might just be processing a lot of the shite posted on boards.ie

Yurt2

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well to be fair, I think they are complaining about the foreigners in subsidised housing or who are in, or waiting in the line for, social housing.


The fair analogy to your anecdote might be if you hear some person shooting their mouths off about the foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin who is signing on and waiting for a nice social house in New York/London/Sydney. But we all know that isn't likely

Many thousands of Irish went on the social housing lists in the 60s/70s/80s in Britain. Social housing was the dominant type of housing provision in urban UK until the mid to late 80s and Irish people weren't shy about availing of it.

We were the original immigrant scroungers in the UK.

Donald Trump

Yurt! wrote: »

Many thousands of Irish went on the social housing lists in the 60s/70s/80s in Britain. Social housing was the dominant type of housing provision in urban UK until the mid to late 80s and Irish people weren't shy about availing of it.

We were the original immigrant scroungers in the UK.

Yes. So what is the relevance to the topic at hand? The OP can't comment about non EU people swelling up housing lists because Paddy Mac was allowed to live in a flat in a tower in Manchester in 1975?

alastair

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

The UN print documents to this effect!.


Of course never hear this from the lunatic left or RTE.

Let’s see this supposed UN document then.

* there is no such document.

Yurt2

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes. So what is the relevance to the topic at hand?

Durrr dee durr durr. The Irish never claimed benefits in other countries. Durr dee durr.

alastair

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The issue here is some posters are confusing (deliberately in some cases) the various types of immigrant that arrive here.

- the highly skilled legal immigrant who legally comes to work in an IT role, can support themselves, pays taxes, and generally contributes positively to the economy, their employer and others around them

- the less skilled immigrant who works in a shop or cleaner etc. Nothing wrong with either by the way - these are the people who really keep the local economies going. They too have arrived legally and contribute

- the immigrant who arrives legally with no or limited skills and soon ends up claiming welfare

- the skilled immigrant who overstays their visa, works, but under the radar

- the immigrant who arrives in the back of a container or claiming asylum from a country without war or without a direct path to Ireland. Limited skills, poor grasp of the language and no desire to change either. Immediately becomes a welfare recipient

- the immigrant who arrives, legally or otherwise, and becomes involved in crime or illegality - often serious. If caught they get a slap on the wrist or end up being supported through the prison system at best

Now.. I think we all know which of the above types are a problem and drain, and which are a benefit to us - and make no mistake, immigration SHOULD be a benefit. This is our country and we absolutely should welcome those who positively add to it and arrive via the proper channels - but we should feel no obligation to those will only be a drain on our resources in the long term, or the outright chancers, nor should we feel obligated to educate them and train them so that they can work.

Why should we be responsible for this when there are many thousands of skilled people already here and still arriving to work in IT and finance among others?

The other thing is that we give away citizenship and permanent residency too easily in this country, and coupled with the problems we already have in returning the chancers, criminals, and welfare drains, it soon leads to situations where we have a system then legally obliged to support people who offer very little or no benefit to us.

And before the white knights and virtuous arrive, I equally fully support the idea of tougher sanctions on the native chancers and drains in our society. It is frankly ridiculous that people who work legally, pay taxes and contribute, are forced to pay ridiculous rents or commute 3 hours a day to work while long term/permanent welfare recipients or criminal elements receive all the benefits and occupy the housing close to those jobs.

I said previously that immigration would be an election issue this time round, and it is. So far only really with the fringe parties (or FG who openly admit they want to open the floodgates), but in 5 years time I think it'll be an issue that's right up with health, crime and housing.

We're a small island with limited national resources, lots of domestic problems we aren't tackling, and hugely dependent on foreign trade and investment and thus very exposed to fluctuations in the global market. We absolutely cannot sustain the doubling of the population as FG and others would advocate, and especially not under the idiotic notion that this will magically solve the problem of tax contributions and pension costs.

The entire process needs to be reviewed, and not by those who are trying to virtue signal to Europe or twitter, or feel that "we" are obliged to look after anyone who turns up regardless - and certainly not by the lobby groups who are making a fortune from the current situation.

It's our country, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting the best possible future for it and our families - even if that means turning some others away.

Asylum seekers are not intended to be a benefit. Some will be, others not. Asylum is a responsibility - not an opportunity for national benefit.

Donald Trump

Yurt! wrote: »

Durrr dee durr durr. The Irish never claimed benefits in other countries. Durr dee durr.

I'm sure plenty of Irish claimed benefits in the UK. But given that many were emigrating there due to the long hangover of colonialism by that country and the devastating effects here, I think that it was a little bit of payback if nothing else.


Again, if you want to shut down discussion or opinion about people from non-EU countries putting increased pressure on social housing here, then I think that your whataboutery has another agenda. By all means refute the statement - maybe it's not true and the OP has incorrect figures.


Or maybe you genuinely think that because some Irish people got benefits in the UK in the 1960's that we should be obligated to feed and house anyone on earth that manages to make it to the island? Is that the case? You do know there are a lot of people out there?

weldoninhio

Yurt! wrote: »

Except for the many that took the boat to England in the 60s/70s/80s and signed on. Many were straight onto council housing lists as well.

We are talking about the present, not 40, 50 or 60 years ago.

Yurt2

weldoninhio wrote: »

We are talking about the present, not 40, 50 or 60 years ago.

Oh hello Mr Goalpost mover, I thought you'd never get here.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm sure plenty of Irish claimed benefits in the UK. But given that many were emigrating there due to the long hangover of colonialism by that country and the devastating effects here, I think that it was a little bit of payback if nothing else.


Again, if you want to shut down discussion or opinion about people from non-EU countries putting increased pressure on social housing here, then I think that your whataboutery has another agenda. By all means refute the statement - maybe it's not true and the OP has incorrect figures.


Or maybe you genuinely think that because some Irish people got benefits in the UK in the 1960's that we should be obligated to feed and house anyone on earth that manages to make it to the island? Is that the case?

There’s zero obligation to feed and house ‘anyone on earth that manages to make it to the island’. There IS an obligation to hear claims for asylum from those who make it here for the purpose of seeking asylum.

If those asylum claims are rejected - once again; no obligation to house and feed those claimants. They will be issued with deportation orders.

Clarence Boddiker

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

The issue is Irish people have been conditioned to hate the Irish.

You nailed it.
This really is one of the biggest unanalysed questions of our time.
The self loathing is so deeply ingrained that most aren't aware of it at all, we have people applying deeply racist colonialist language to their own nation.
As in "Were not really a people" "theres no such thing as Irish people" "Irishness is a construct" and so on.
Apply this kind of language to any other group and its about as racist as you can get and yet its the standard way of thinking for most Irish people these days.

Donald Trump

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh hello Mr Goalpost mover, I thought you'd never get here.

You were the one who started to talk about Irish in UK in 60s/70s/80s for some reason


Maybe you want Irish people to emigrate to the UK to make space for the non-EUs on the social housing lists? Is that the relevance to the situation today?

Lonesomerhodes

alastair wrote: »

Let’s see this supposed UN document then.

* there is no such document.

Never hear of the UN migration pact amongst others or do you just ignore facts as they don't suit your echo chamber.

zdragon

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands

a very manipulative article, aimed to boost newspaper sales.

Docklands is a tiny area. not representative to whole Dublin area. I am more than sure that many areas in Dublin are 99% rented/owned by Irish born and raised in Ireland, where even many Irish people can't afford to own nor rent.

but such an article will not boos sales, so why writing about it

alastair

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Never hear of the UN migration pact amongst others or do you just ignore facts as they don't suit your echo chamber.

I have indeed - and where does it contain what you claim of it?

* nowhere is the answer

Yurt2

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe you want Irish people to emigrate to the UK to make space for the non-EUs on the social housing lists? Is that the relevance to the situation today?

Yes that's the idea you beautiful genius you.

alastair

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

You nailed it.
This really is one of the biggest unanalysed questions of our time.
The self loathing is so deeply ingrained that most aren't aware of it at all, we have people applying deeply racist colonialist language to their own nation.
As in "Were not really a people" "theres no such thing as Irish people" "Irishness is a construct" and so on.
Apply this kind of language to any other group and its about as racist as you can get and yet its the standard way of thinking for most Irish people these days.

Yeaaah, nonsense. The ‘Irish blood’ crowd make claims for some unsullied pure Irishness that is rightfully poo poohed. Irish people are Irish citizens, regardless of ethnicity or colour. That’s the fact of the matter.

Donald Trump

Yurt! wrote: »

Yes that's the idea you beautiful genius you.

Ah grand, I was thinking as much. It is the kind of "idea" we'd have expected you to come up with. It's not a good idea btw

Cordell

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

They frequently see the other side of the debate for themselves, can put themselves in the shoes of the host, and need no saving whatsoever by do-gooders.

Exactly, I'm one of them foreigners and I don't need saving. No one needs to be forced to agree (or pretend to agree) with me being here as I don't care, I'm not going anywhere and no one can do anything about it :P. And, as many of you, I hate to see my taxes going for forever homes for the work-shy no matter where they may be coming from.

Ireland is a great country, this is why we get people from all over the world here, so be thankful for that at least

Clarence Boddiker

alastair wrote: »

Yeaaah, nonsense. The ‘Irish blood’ crowd make claims for some unsullied pure Irishness that is rightfully poo poohed. Irish people are Irish citizens, regardless of ethnicity or colour. That’s the fact of the matter.

Wrong, but I wouldn't expect anyone with such an ultra materialist mindset to understand.
Irish blood, Irish genetics, Irish Culture, Irish history, Irish customs, Irish tradition. These are all real. But you would dismiss them, like a true capitalist who sees humans as nothing more than economic units.
there's so much more to nationhood than your simple ideas. But you come from the Margaret Thatcher school of 'there's no such thing as society' Well not all of us do I'm afraid.

If Irish is anyone, then there is no such thing as Irish, it merely denotes a person being from a particular geographic location and nothing more than that. It is empty.

Lonesomerhodes

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

You nailed it.
This really is one of the biggest unanalysed questions of our time.
The self loathing is so deeply ingrained that most aren't aware of it at all, we have people applying deeply racist colonialist language to their own nation.
As in "Were not really a people" "theres no such thing as Irish people" "Irishness is a construct" and so on.
Apply this kind of language to any other group and its about as racist as you can get and yet its the standard way of thinking for most Irish people these days.

Cheers pal,

All the self loathing Irish on this despise any truth.

Indeed I doubt any of them can even speak Irish.

If my lazy arse can anyone can learn it but I'm a patriot and like Irish language, culture and heritage. What's left of it!.

alastair

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Wrong, but I wouldn't expect anyone with such an ultra materialist mindset to understand.
Irish blood, Irish genetics, Irish Culture, Irish history, Irish customs, Irish tradition. These are all real. But you would dismiss them, like a true capitalist who sees humans as nothing more than economic units.
there's so much more to nationhood than your simple ideas. But you come from the Margaret Thatcher school of 'there's no such thing as society' Well not all of us do I'm afraid.

If Irish is anyone, then there is no such thing as Irish, it merely denotes a person being from a particular geographic location and nothing more than that. It is empty.

Yeaaah - again - nonsense. Irish isn’t ‘anyone’. It’s those who hold Irish citizenship. Regardless of any other criteria. It’s the sole meaningful criteria for determining their Irishness.

Pity that well known fraudster Padraig Pearse doesn’t qualify for being Irish on account of his ‘Foreign’ DNA, eh?

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

Yeaaah, nonsense. The ‘Irish blood’ crowd make claims for some unsullied pure Irishness that is rightfully poo poohed. Irish people are Irish citizens, regardless of ethnicity or colour. That’s the fact of the matter.

Would that mean you'd refuse to call, or refer to, a black person from the US an "African American"?



There are plenty of people in the US without Irish citizenship, who maybe just haven't claimed it but might be entitled to it, who call themselves "Irish".



I am sure you would quickly poo-poo the latter. So I included he former too in case it confuses your wokeness

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

alastair wrote: »

There’s zero obligation to feed and house ‘anyone on earth that manages to make it to the island’. There IS an obligation to hear claims for asylum from those who make it here for the purpose of seeking asylum.

If those asylum claims are rejected - once again; no obligation to house and feed those claimants. They will be issued with deportation orders.

But to what degree? Isn't there a fair number, that a country our size can accommodate?

It seems that some people (and our Taoiseach is one of them), think we should accommodate as many as we can squeeze into the country! Little or no consideration given, to how that might impact the social fabric of our small Island. And our infrastructure is already stretched to near breaking point, with the population we currently have!

It's nice to be charitable... but pretty soon, we might be needing charity ourselves if we can't look after our own people!

Clarence Boddiker

alastair wrote: »

Yeaaah - again - nonsense. Irish isn’t ‘anyone’. It’s those who hold Irish citizenship. Regardless of any other criteria. It’s the sole meaningful criteria for determining their Irishness.

Its your sole meaningful criteria. Many, many people would disagree with you. But like a true ideological extremist you can't countenance the perceptions and beliefs of others and see your own ideology as the only truth.

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

Would that mean you'd refuse to call, or refer to, a black person from the US an "African American"?



There are plenty of people in the US without Irish citizenship, who maybe just haven't claimed it but might be entitled to it, who call themselves "Irish".



I am sure you would quickly poo-poo the latter. So I included he former too in case it confuses your wokeness

If you’re entitled to Irish citizenship, then you’re entitled to be considered Irish.
African Americans aren’t African - so I’m not sure what your point is?

iebamm2580

Why have Irish people got the highest incidence of CF in the world? Genetics, IRISH GENETICS.

alastair

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But to what degree? Isn't there a fair number, that a country our size can accommodate?

It seems that some people (and our Taoiseach is one of them), think we should accommodate as many as we can squeeze into the country! Little or no consideration given, to how that might impact the social fabric of our small Island. And our infrastructure is already stretched to near breaking point, with the population we currently have!

It's nice to be charitable... but pretty soon, we might be needing charity ourselves if we can't look after our own people!

There are a 1.5 million odd Syrian refugees in Lebanon, a country half the size of Leinster. Is that ‘fair’ or is it an international responsibility? Asylum isn’t charity.

alastair

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Why have Irish people got the highest incidence of CF in the world? Genetics, IRISH GENETICS.

Cystic Fibrosis isn’t any sort of benchmark for Irishness. Wise up.

iebamm2580

Its a genetic trait, but in your world genetics dont exist, wise up, haha get over yourself, you lose every argument on here.

alastair

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Its your sole meaningful criteria. Many, many people would disagree with you. But like a true ideological extremist you can't countenance the perceptions and beliefs of others and see your own ideology as the only truth.

Nah - the ideological extremism is pretending that a national identity is framed by DNA. That’s got the bonus of being patently idiotic into the bargain.

alastair

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Its a genetic trait, but in your world genetics dont exist, wise up, haha get over yourself, you lose every argument on here.

Nope. Nobody denied genetics. They just form no part in determining nationality.

Lonesomerhodes

alastair wrote: »

Yeaaah - again - nonsense. Irish isn’t ‘anyone’. It’s those who hold Irish citizenship. Regardless of any other criteria. It’s the sole meaningful criteria for determining their Irishness.

Pity that well known fraudster Padraig Pearse doesn’t qualify for being Irish on account of his ‘Foreign’ DNA, eh?

Your disdain for ethnic Irish people seems second to none.

Criticizing them at any given opportunity,


The Marxist brainwashing has worked a treat on you.

iebamm2580

alastair wrote: »

Nope. Nobody denied genetics. They just form no part in determining nationality.

Argue all you want i have all day to laugh at your posts, you are quite simply wrong. What are Jamaicans famous for sprinting- part of jamaican identity, good at sprinting because of west african genetics.

alastair

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Your disdain for ethnic Irish people seems second to none.

Criticizing them at any given opportunity,


The Marxist brainwashing has worked a treat on you.

Avoiding the awkward Pearse issue all the same. Noted.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

If you’re entitled to Irish citizenship, then you’re entitled to be considered Irish.
African Americans aren’t African - so I’m not sure what your point is?

You were "poo-poohing" the notion of any form of connection between heritage and identity.


I think an Irish-American is entitled to identify as Irish if they want to. Even if they don't have a passport.


You appear to purport that the sole criteria for identify as Irish is possession of a passport. How you feel about those with dual citizenship is unclear. Perhaps a kind of "citizenship Schrodinger's cat"?

alastair

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Argue all you want i have all day to laugh at your posts, you are quite simply wrong. What are Jamaicans famous for sprinting- part of jamaican identity, good at sprinting because of west african genetics.

Sprinting ability is also not a benchmark for being a a Jamaican. Most Jamaicans can sprint no better than you or I.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/14/ethnicity-is-not-something-dictated-by-peoples-genes

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

You were "poo-poohing" the notion of any form of connection between heritage and identity.


I think an Irish-American is entitled to identify as Irish if they want to. Even if they don't have a passport.


You appear to purport that the sole criteria for identify as Irish is possession of a passport. How you feel about those with dual citizenship is unclear. Perhaps a kind of "citizenship Schrodinger's cat"?

Dual nationality isn’t any sort of conundrum. Not sure why you would imagine it is. It simply proves the point that you can’t pigeonhole identity into ‘blood’.

Donald Trump

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Why have Irish people got the highest incidence of CF in the world? Genetics, IRISH GENETICS.

No. Don't be silly. It is because they have Irish passports apparently.......maybe we should get onto the passport office to have them check whether there is anything in the material they use to make them

alastair

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. Don't be silly. It is because they have Irish passports apparently.......maybe we should get onto the passport office to have them check whether there is anything in the material they use to make them

I take it you have CF then? Otherwise you’re clearly not Irish?

iebamm2580

alastair wrote: »

I take it you have CF then? Otherwise you’re clearly not Irish?

You obviously have no clue about how genetics work if you think you are being smart asking that.

alastair

iebamm2580 wrote: »

You obviously have no clue about how genetics work if you think you are being smart asking that.

There’s nothing but idiocy wrapped around the introduction of CF into the issue of national identity. Nothing. Rubbish in, rubbish out.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/14/ethnicity-is-not-something-dictated-by-peoples-genes

iebamm2580

Im off,cant argue with somebody who cheery picks guardian articles to suit an argument. Ancestry would be a better term to use instead of ethnicity being honest.

Donald Trump

alastair wrote: »

I take it you have CF then? Otherwise you’re clearly not Irish?

No don't be silly. However Irish people do have the highest incidence of CF in the world. It does not mean that they all have it.



Serous question for you. How would you react if you met an American who introduced themselves as "Irish" because all of their 4 grandparents had emigrated from Ireland and the families had settled and lived in a majority Irish neighbourhood in the US ever since.


You skirted the question about the African American. Would you tell him he isn't "African American" and is instead just "American". That he isn't entitled to his own history, but rather that his history is just the same shared history of any other American?