Immigration and the housing crisis

4068ac1elhodqr

str8talkingguy wrote: »

Didn't take us long to get from ghost estates and far too many houses built to actually people believing the opposite is true now,failing to open their eyes to all the boarded up and empty house all around them,couldn't make it up.

Planning, planning and more planning.

Guess the plans only stretch as far as the next election and at the end of that term, problems can be passed over/blamed onto someone else.

Wealth for some (corporates on low tax) is grand, but real wealth distribution is another factor as is everyday quality of life.

Marcos

It’s not just housing that legal and illegal immigration puts a strain on. Remember the Ringsend sewage spill off from the wastewater plant which was only built in 2003? It was built for a capacity of 1.64 million people. Yet [PHP]according to the EPA[/PHP]

The plant has a capacity to treat waste water from a population equivalent of 1.64 million. The load entering the plant is from a population equivalent of 2.3 million.

2.3 million? That doesn’t tally with official figures for the Greater Dublin Area which puts the population at between 1.8 to 1.9 million or so. So where is the extra 400,000 to 500,000 coming from? And back to the point, what effect are these extra numbers having on housing?

Ahwell

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

Where will they live, when they all arrive to build the badly needed houses?

That is a problem, but we are not going to build the number of houses we need without them.

4068ac1elhodqr

Marcos wrote: »

It’s not just housing that legal and illegal immigration puts a strain on. Remember the Ringsend sewage spill off from the wastewater plant which was only built in 2003? It was built for a capacity of 1.64 million people. Yet The plant has a capacity to treat waste water from a population equivalent of 1.64 million. The load entering the plant is from a population equivalent of 2.3 million.

Folks living 20+ in a house, straining services, doing those low paid jobs (that normally won't pay normal occupancy rent), perhaps even using the black market for cash in hand (tax-free) earnings while claiming other benefits. Who knows for sure.

4068ac1elhodqr

Ahwell wrote: »

That is a problem, but we are not going to build the number of houses we need without them.

Still, you can't import 100,000 folks if there's nowhere for them to live, a brickie doing 12hr day won't put up with a sleeping bag and cardboard.

Such sudden demand equates to un-normal migration, and on top of regular growth, thus creates un-normal problems.
Really it's a problem that should have been forseen and planned for ages ago, slightly too late now.

Brexit taking away 100,000 jobs may well re-balance the situation. Then there's the aul global pandemic on the way so...

con___manx1

maneno wrote: »

DelaneyIn wrote: »

92% of renters in the Dublin docklands are non national and rents there are 20% higher than the Dublin average.

Is this fair to Irish workers some of whom can't afford to live in Dublin and are having to consider emigration or moving out of the city? Is is an example of gentrification pushing up rents, as landlords bring in high paying tenants from abroad? Quite apart from the housing crisis.

Are the landlords discriminating on the Irish? If a foreign national can afford the rent in the docklands, what exactly is the issue? Or should foreigners be stopped from renting?

Irish people take over areas in different city's around the world. I have lived in one such area in the past. The foreigners living there that are working are obviously on good money and probly working in high skilled jobs.

str8talkingguy

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The country managed to increase the population rapidly, and solve the emigration and unemployment crises. With the general population living longer and healthier lives than ever before. You could say you are lucky to be living in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, at the very best times in history.

Cognitive dissonance is real and good for you that life is so good,but this is not the very best times in Irish History you are just lucky you have not encountered reality so far and hopefully you get to live on in your bubble.

How many guards have been shot dead,what about gangsters beheading people this is progress since the 80s yeah?we are so advanced now huh,good for you that you don't cross a gangster and realize there is literally no law and order here we are bordering on a failed state.

Murders are manslaughters to massage the figures for the global index.Look at some of the families that see their family member stabbed multiple times for it be a manslaughter and out in a couple years,its no utopia for them,and thats not even mentioning the homeless who are all Irish or the lack of healthcare.

Ahwell

Lydia Juicy Hairpiece wrote: »

Still, you can't import 100,000 folks if there's nowhere for them to live, a brickie doing 12hr day won't put up with a sleeping bag and cardboard.

Such sudden demand equates to un-normal migration, and on top of regular growth, thus creates un-normal problems.
Really it's a problem that should have been forseen and planned for ages ago, slightly too late now.

Brexit taking away 100,000 jobs may well re-balance the situation. Then there's the aul global pandemic on the way so...

The ESRI did the report on how many workers will be needed and pointed out the accommodation issue that would cause, but offered no solutions. And I don't have any either.

antoinolachtnai

Marcos wrote: »

It’s not just housing that legal and illegal immigration puts a strain on. Remember the Ringsend sewage spill off from the wastewater plant which was only built in 2003? It was built for a capacity of 1.64 million people. Yet [PHP]according to the EPA[/PHP]


2.3 million? That doesn’t tally with official figures for the Greater Dublin Area which puts the population at between 1.8 to 1.9 million or so. So where is the extra 400,000 to 500,000 coming from? And back to the point, what effect are these extra numbers having on housing?

It has nothing to do with immigration.

It has to do with the combined drain system. Storm and foul sewage are combined. When it rains, the rain enters the combined sewer and overwhelms the treatment plant. This means the plant needs to do more work and treat more waste than a plant in a city with modern drainage has to do.

gar32

No one is posting about the issue that would solve the problem. Housing & lot's of it. The greedy landlord's as you call the pay 41% tax on the rent. Unless it's is a company renting out the property in which case the only pay 12% minus expensive. Who sets the tax rates ? Who get tax when a house is sold and bought? If the tax system was changed to benefit the building of homes. Like it was for hotel's in Dublin. Then more homes would be built. Who set out where can housing be built and what services are needed. The Council's which are in the pockets of the developers & land own's not to increase residential land too fast so prices don't fall.

The issue is not who works where and what country they are from. The issue is who sets the taxes and control's the land zoning. China built a hospital in 10 days. I think if the will was there homes could be build or empty building could be converted to apartment's all over Dublin before the end of the year.

FF/FG don't want to fix the issue.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Sheeps wrote: »

The problem is no the population. It's the lack of homes. We're one of the least densly populated countries in Europe. It's not rocket science.

What's wrong with that?

I quite like that our country is less densely populated than many other countries... not sure why Leo and his cronies are so keen on bloating our population by so much over the next 20 years!?

That's the problem. We are bringing in too many people, and struggling to house them all.

Solution: bring in less people! (You're correct - it's not rocket science)

Yurt2

gar32 wrote: »

No one is posting about the issue that would solve the problem. Housing & lot's of it. The greedy landlord's as you call the pay 41% tax on the rent. Unless it's is a company renting out the property in which case the only pay 12% minus expensive. Who sets the tax rates ? Who get tax when a house is sold and bought? If the tax system was changed to benefit the building of homes. Like it was for hotel's in Dublin. Then more homes would be built.

I'm sorry but BS. Landlords don't build homes and never did. Tax breaks for landlords will go straight into landlords pockets and will do next to zilch to drive unit construction. If you're seeking for institutional investors to be taxed at the same rate as individual landlords for the sake of equity that's a different arguement. In any case, there's no moral arguement for passive, unproductive income to be taxed at less than people's labour. Rent has to come from people's pockets in the productive economy and gets passed to a landlord sitting on an asset - it's immoral for that rental income to be taxed at less than labour.

There's more than enough suppressed demand from individuals and couples seeking to build homes to drive the construction industry - we don't need buy-to-let property spivs to be given a further advantage over first time buyers or those seeking to trade-up.


Further, the supply supply supply merchants are only telling about 10% of the story when it comes to housing affordability.

Snow Garden

RobertKK wrote: »

The lobotomy must have worked as I use information for my post.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/columnists/john-daly-construction-industry-calls-out-for-more-workers-979376.html

It says 112,000 workers needed for the construction the country needs.

The Eastern Europeans are leaving in their droves because rents are too high here and their home economies going well. They are leaving major shortages in construction projects. Irish people have stopped doing apprenticeships too which is resulting in huge shortages for skilled plumbers, electricians etc

Yurt2

Snow Garden wrote: »

The Eastern Europeans are leaving in their droves because rents are too high here and their home economies going well. They are leaving major shortages in construction projects. Irish people have stopped doing apprenticeships too which is resulting in huge shortages for skilled plumbers, electricians etc

There's plenty of Irish plumbers, sparkies etc. They're just all in Australia or Canada where the money is at. Irish tradespeople are also very popular in general, easy going and speak English (except the ones from Dongegal of course).

pjohnson

Yurt! wrote: »

There's plenty of Irish plumbers, sparkies etc. They're just all in Australia or Canada where the money is at. Irish tradespeople are also very popular in general, easy going and speak English (except the ones from Dongegal of course).

And no more than the Eastern European workers the Irish Workers are also leaving due to the grossly warped rental market.

Yurt2

pjohnson wrote: »

And no more than the Eastern European workers the Irish Workers are also leaving due to the grossly warped rental market.

Probably. Quality of life and general cost of living is likely far better in those locations. Who can blame them?

weldoninhio

beejee wrote: »

Here's a story for you. An eastern European in one of the forever homes from the government (how?!?!). The neighbour is from the same country too (!!)

An accident resulted in one their forever homes being damaged. Council comes in to fix it for them. Neighbour "falls" over construction work...straight on the compo bandwagon.

People need to snap the fook out of it about a lot of these angels.

How in the world does an EU national get a council house. Part of the agreement for freedom of movement is that you can support yourself in whatever country you head to. If you can't afford to rent or buy at market rates, you can't support yourself in that country and should be repatriated, which is 100% legal under EU law.

Lonesomerhodes

The issue is Irish people have been conditioned to hate the Irish.

Decades of brainwashing, RTE propaganda and Marxist nonsense in schools.

Look at immigration you can't even bring it up!.

Most people don't speak the Irish language and have little to no tolerance of the language.

Look at the lunatic left like PBP they actually go nuts nowadays for people waving a tri colour!.

This forum is a bastion of thought control and political correctness,

bans all around for bringing up immigration.



I find the biggest irony of immigration is all the unemployed in PbP, Antfia and other fringe lunatic left parties want immigration despite always rattling on about inequality, more people less resources obviously less for people!.


The lunatic left have you believe Ireland could take on millions of immigrants and easily have the resources such is their level of delusion and brainwashing from left nonsense.

Ever see a left politician ever even bring up immigration?.

See what I mean!.

weldoninhio

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I always find it truly amazing how some people with shoot their mouths off about foreigners and then in the next breath talk about their clever son/nephew/cousin and how great he is working in New York/London/Sydney. Takes a special kind of thick.

How many of their kin are living in council houses in NY, London or Sydney??

Graces7

weldoninhio wrote: »

How in the world does an EU national get a council house. Part of the agreement for freedom of movement is that you can support yourself in whatever country you head to. If you can't afford to rent or buy at market rates, you can't support yourself in that country and should be repatriated, which is 100% legal under EU law.[/QUOTE

"habitual residency" is the key to benefits and housing etc.

TwoMonthsOff

How much immigration is too much? We are approaching 20% non national now, is that enough? If its not enough I'd ask when will it be enough? 30%, 40% ??

Lonesomerhodes

weldoninhio wrote: »

How many of their kin are living in council houses in NY, London or Sydney??

Yes.

The argument that Irish people have immigrated as a counter to asylum seekers here it's absurd.


Irish people immigrated to western countries and worked. They never got asylum in Syria, Lebanon or Nigeria it's not like for like it's a million times different.



Here's something I believe.

Ireland owes Asylum seekers nothing, zilch, nada.

Course some say it does why?.


Roy beck makes a great case immigration damages both the host country and the country left behind and always will do and always. has.

suicide_circus

does immigration come with any negative consequences for the native population or is it 100% positive?

answers on a postcard please.

Yurt2

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yes.


Irish people immigrated to western countries and worked.

Except for the many that took the boat to England in the 60s/70s/80s and signed on. Many were straight onto council housing lists as well.

golfball37

Mass migration is a tool used to keep wages low, rent and property prices high under the guise of humanitarism. Its even in a UN resolution. Not surprised Paddy can't see through it when you see how and who he votes for Hate speech laws coming in will soon drown out all discussion on the topic. We'll have woke people on Twitter calling us racists for questioning it.

lainey_d_123

weldoninhio wrote: »

How many of their kin are living in council houses in NY, London or Sydney??

Are you kidding me? You don't think Irish emigrants have availed of social welfare? I personally know quite a few Irish people who live in council flats in London, some of them for decades now.

Lonesomerhodes

golfball37 wrote: »

Mass migration is a tool used to keep wages low, rent and property prices high under the guise of humanitarism. Its even in a UN resolution. Not surprised Paddy can't see through it when you see how and who he votes for Hate speech laws coming in will soon drown out all discussion on the topic. We'll have woke people on Twitter calling us racists for questioning it.

The UN print documents to this effect!.


Of course never hear this from the lunatic left or RTE.

lainey_d_123

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yes.

The argument that Irish people have immigrated as a counter to asylum seekers here it's absurd.


Irish people immigrated to western countries and worked. They never got asylum in Syria, Lebanon or Nigeria it's not like for like it's a million times different.



Here's something I believe.

Ireland owes Asylum seekers nothing, zilch, nada.

Course some say it does why?.


Roy beck makes a great case immigration damages both the host country and the country left behind and always will do and always. has.

Some worked, some didn't. Just like any of the immigrants who come here. This idea that the Irish are so noble and hardworking and unlike those nasty foreigners who come here and sign on is nothing short of pathetic.

enricoh

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

How much immigration is too much? We are approaching 20% non national now, is that enough? If its not enough I'd ask when will it be enough? 30%, 40% ??

The only mention of immigration I heard in this election was a primary school teacher in castlerea bemoaning the lack of sna's in her school. 40% of the kids in the school weren't Irish n there was issues trying to teach in English etc.
If she had said she was from the greater Dublin area I wouldn't bat an eyelid at that 40% figure but was surprised at a town in the west.
At least immigration got a mention anyway!

_Kaiser_

The issue here is some posters are confusing (deliberately in some cases) the various types of immigrant that arrive here.

- the highly skilled legal immigrant who legally comes to work in an IT role, can support themselves, pays taxes, and generally contributes positively to the economy, their employer and others around them

- the less skilled immigrant who works in a shop or cleaner etc. Nothing wrong with either by the way - these are the people who really keep the local economies going. They too have arrived legally and contribute

- the immigrant who arrives legally with no or limited skills and soon ends up claiming welfare

- the skilled immigrant who overstays their visa, works, but under the radar

- the immigrant who arrives in the back of a container or claiming asylum from a country without war or without a direct path to Ireland. Limited skills, poor grasp of the language and no desire to change either. Immediately becomes a welfare recipient

- the immigrant who arrives, legally or otherwise, and becomes involved in crime or illegality - often serious. If caught they get a slap on the wrist or end up being supported through the prison system at best

Now.. I think we all know which of the above types are a problem and drain, and which are a benefit to us - and make no mistake, immigration SHOULD be a benefit. This is our country and we absolutely should welcome those who positively add to it and arrive via the proper channels - but we should feel no obligation to those will only be a drain on our resources in the long term, or the outright chancers, nor should we feel obligated to educate them and train them so that they can work.

Why should we be responsible for this when there are many thousands of skilled people already here and still arriving to work in IT and finance among others?

The other thing is that we give away citizenship and permanent residency too easily in this country, and coupled with the problems we already have in returning the chancers, criminals, and welfare drains, it soon leads to situations where we have a system then legally obliged to support people who offer very little or no benefit to us.

And before the white knights and virtuous arrive, I equally fully support the idea of tougher sanctions on the native chancers and drains in our society. It is frankly ridiculous that people who work legally, pay taxes and contribute, are forced to pay ridiculous rents or commute 3 hours a day to work while long term/permanent welfare recipients or criminal elements receive all the benefits and occupy the housing close to those jobs.

I said previously that immigration would be an election issue this time round, and it is. So far only really with the fringe parties (or FG who openly admit they want to open the floodgates), but in 5 years time I think it'll be an issue that's right up with health, crime and housing.

We're a small island with limited natural resources, lots of domestic problems we aren't tackling, and hugely dependent on foreign trade and investment and thus very exposed to fluctuations in the global market. We absolutely cannot sustain the doubling of the population as FG and others would advocate, and especially not under the idiotic notion that this will magically solve the problem of tax contributions and pension costs.

The entire process needs to be reviewed, and not by those who are trying to virtue signal to Europe or twitter, or feel that "we" are obliged to look after anyone who turns up regardless - and certainly not by the lobby groups who are making a fortune from the current situation.

It's our country, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting the best possible future for it and our families - even if that means turning some others away.