How are people not good with money?

Geuze

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Don’t know what the LOL is about.....

Junior sales person will walk in door in my office on 40k+ basic with a 55/45 sales plan so 72k if they hit target and they are right out of college

Do software development and your pushing close to 100k starting.....

Maybe five years, graduates starting with a Dublin city centre software firm started on 23k.

Shefwedfan

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

LOL! What planet are you on? This must be a p1ss take, surely.

Absolutely nobody is anywhere near 100k starting, not even in software development. I know developers with 10-15 years' experience who are not even on that. We have talented junior devs coming from college starting on 35-40k, and that is still very decent compared to most industries.

You are totally out of touch with reality.

Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....


Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

Senior software dev people would be well over 100k


Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k



Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k



Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

dotsman

beejee wrote: »

I know a couple of people in the general area of IT. Essentially, they got it to the field because of all the "big salaries".

Now that theyve been in it a few years they say it's a very small handful of people that make anything near 100k, never mind "easily more than 100k".

I would say the problem there is "general area of IT". Anyone and everyone can "work in IT". A porter in a hospital works in the medical field, but is hardly comparable to a consultant surgeon.

As a whole, mainstream professional IT roles such as Software/DB/Systems/Cloud Engineer/Architect etc, automated testing or IT Management are good careers that pay decent money.

However, the below is not true...

kenmm wrote: »

Anyone with a few years experience in IT in Dublin right now that isn't on at least 110 equivalent is doing it wrong.

Practically nobody "a few years experience in IT" is on a six figure salary. For most, they hit it around the 10-15 year mark. Some will get there earlier; a tiny few will get there after 5 years.

Of course, once you hit a certain salary, there is a lot more to a job than money, and many choose to earn 80K in an enjoyable role than 120K in a horrible one.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....

Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

Senior software dev people would be well over 100k

Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k

Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k

Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

Firstly, most of the "hiring abroad" is that they can hire for far lower wages. Sure, the cost of the visa and a plane ticket is nothing when they can pay them far less than an Irish employee and treat them like dirt. Once the person has completed their 2 years' residency, they start asking for a Irish salary and are told to f-off and the company goes out to try and recruit more offshore. All the consultancy firms do this as well as some of the large IT players. Not only does it flood the country with developers (many with poor/mediocre skills), but it is a terrible, unethical practice. Rule of thumb is - never work for a company where the majority (or even a large minority) of the staff are not Irish.

Despite all the talk, there is no shortage of "IT people" in Ireland. There is, however, a massive shortage of companies that know how to attract, manage and retain IT staff.

As per your own research in to Irishjobs, none are even close to 100K. That is not to say they don't exist - they do!, but are not the standard. In terms of "american" companies, if you are referring to Facebook/Google/Amazon, then yes, these guys pay a great salary. But that is why they stand out amongst the hundreds of other employers.

Titclamp

Because the government wasn't good with it.

feelthepower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....


Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

Senior software dev people would be well over 100k


Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k



Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k



Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

I agree with you with people that have 10 years experience should be hitting 75K-100K and graduates with a fantastic final year project could be starting 55K plus. My friends brother started on 50K with Amazon fresh out of college at 22 years of age.

I'm not a programmer but a system administrator and changed jobs four times in the last 10 years and hitting 70K with bonuses. I'm not even that great at my job and it's not in Dublin or Cork or Galway.

I think a lot of people's problem is that there staying with same company and not changing roles regularly to get on the higher pay scale. I'm not sure if it's because there afraid to change with a mortgage and kids to support.

But yeah the money is definitely out there.

dartboardio

Are you really asking this question?

Thats like asking how does someone not know how to swim.

Because they were never shown how to.

Some people are bad with money due to their parents being bad with money and it was never a priority to sit them down and show them how to deal with money, how to save etc.

And you just end up squandering money away on nothing and realising you don't have much left for the week.

kenmm

Sounds like a few people are not only bad at managing what they have, but suck at getting paid market rates as well..

The market is completely bat sh!t crazy at the moment and anyone who is good in certain roles are getting paid very well for what they do..

kenmm

beejee wrote: »

Very believable, all right

I'd appreciate not being called out as a liar on a public forum, but I don't care that much tbh! I know for fact what people get paid and it is madness! 400 a day isn't a particularly good day rate in some fields and you don't need nearly as much experience as one would think..

Shefwedfan

dotsman wrote: »

Firstly, most of the "hiring abroad" is that they can hire for far lower wages. Sure, the cost of the visa and a plane ticket is nothing when they can pay them far less than an Irish employee and treat them like dirt. Once the person has completed their 2 years' residency, they start asking for a Irish salary and are told to f-off and the company goes out to try and recruit more offshore. All the consultancy firms do this as well as some of the large IT players. Not only does it flood the country with developers (many with poor/mediocre skills), but it is a terrible, unethical practice. Rule of thumb is - never work for a company where the majority (or even a large minority) of the staff are not Irish.

Ok I will pick up on this, do you honestly think a person with a degree and is very intelligent will move to Ireland and not work for the going rate? As soon as he/she arrives they will quickly work it out, the company can try pin them to a contract but they would be able to break it straight away via the courts.



People hire overseas and leave people overseas if they want to reduce the wages as the cost of living is a lot less.



Rule of thumb you havent a breeze what you are talking about, I never heard such a load of nonsense before

dotsman wrote: »

Despite all the talk, there is no shortage of "IT people" in Ireland. There is, however, a massive shortage of companies that know how to attract, manage and retain IT staff.

Again you show you haven't a clue or you dont understand the IT market. Ireland has a huge shortage of people. Not just in high paying jobs but across the whole IT market

dotsman wrote: »

As per your own research in to Irishjobs, none are even close to 100K. That is not to say they don't exist - they do!, but are not the standard. In terms of "american" companies, if you are referring to Facebook/Google/Amazon, then yes, these guys pay a great salary. But that is why they stand out amongst the hundreds of other employers.

Do you realize how many american companies are in Ireland? last count it was circa 1,000.

Shefwedfan

feelthepower wrote: »

I agree with you with people that have 10 years experience should be hitting 75K-100K and graduates with a fantastic final year project could be starting 55K plus. My friends brother started on 50K with Amazon fresh out of college at 22 years of age.

I'm not a programmer but a system administrator and changed jobs four times in the last 10 years and hitting 70K with bonuses. I'm not even that great at my job and it's not in Dublin or Cork or Galway.

I think a lot of people's problem is that there staying with same company and not changing roles regularly to get on the higher pay scale. I'm not sure if it's because there afraid to change with a mortgage and kids to support.

But yeah the money is definitely out there.

System admin used to be the big bucks, its harder to drive the big wages


If you are walking out of uni now with Security or software dev then you are hitting the market at the right time.......


Staying with the same company can have advantages as well if you can drive your salary increase on a yearly basis, with the IT market been volatile swapping often can also be a disadvantage. Companies are now wise to people working for 2 years, getting trained up and then f**king off.



It depends of course on skills but the early 2000's with people working for 12-18 month per company is decreasing

feelthepower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

System admin used to be the big bucks, its harder to drive the big wages


If you are walking out of uni now with Security or software dev then you are hitting the market at the right time.......


Staying with the same company can have advantages as well if you can drive your salary increase on a yearly basis, with the IT market been volatile swapping often can also be a disadvantage. Companies are now wise to people working for 2 years, getting trained up and then f**king off.



It depends of course on skills but the early 2000's with people working for 12-18 month per company is decreasing

Yea Sys admin work minus cloud computing is starting to quieten down a bit, a lot of the processes are not as complex as they used to be and wages arn't great.

A lot of companies now are just hiring external companies to migrate their systems to the cloud and paying a yearly rate for monitoring and maintenance.

Started my Azure and AWS certs as that's the way things are going.

Shefwedfan

feelthepower wrote: »

Yea Sys admin work minus cloud computing is starting to quieten down a bit, a lot of the processes are not as complex as they used to be and wages arn't great.

A lot of companies now are just hiring external companies to migrate their systems to the cloud and paying a yearly rate for monitoring and maintenance.

Started my Azure and AWS certs as that's the way things are going.

Arkphire just bought Trilogy, get in with companies like that which will run private clouds for companies is the only way forward...give it 5 years and no companies or very few will run day to day IT themselves

feelthepower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Arkphire just bought Trilogy, get in with companies like that which will run private clouds for companies is the only way forward...give it 5 years and no companies or very few will run day to day IT themselves

I don't think even if my salary doubled to 140K I would go back to Dublin even though I would love to be working for one of the big tech companies up there.

Houses in my area are 150K to 200K. There a fortune in Dublin for something decent

ChikiChiki

Project drivers such as BAs and PMs are easily pulling in 100k.

I worked with a PM not so long ago whose rate was 1100 a day. No degree, just experience and certificates.

Fireball81

Boards (or at least this thread) must have a higher percentage of people in IT reading and replying on it than say lower paid retail and hospitality sectors etc based on the salary numbers at the start of careers being bandied around here.

feelthepower

Fireball81 wrote: »

Boards (or at least this thread) must have a higher percentage of people in IT reading and replying on it than say lower paid retail and hospitality sectors etc based on the salary numbers at the start of careers being bandied around here.

If you don't know, now you know

Shefwedfan

Fireball81 wrote: »

Boards (or at least this thread) must have a higher percentage of people in IT reading and replying on it than say lower paid retail and hospitality sectors etc based on the salary numbers at the start of careers being bandied around here.

Who do you think is buying up all the houses around Dublin?

dotsman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok I will pick up on this, do you honestly think a person with a degree and is very intelligent

Who said they were intellignet? Some are, some aren't very.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

will move to Ireland and not work for the going rate? As soon as he/she arrives they will quickly work it out, the company can try pin them to a contract but they would be able to break it straight away via the courts.

It's not about contracts, nor would it go to court???

You need to understand how visas, work permits and residency works in Ireland.

After they achieve their 2 year's residency, they ask for a better salary and told no, there is a queue of people behind them waiting to come to Ireland. And so they leave and another is brought over.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

People hire overseas and leave people overseas if they want to reduce the wages as the cost of living is a lot less.

Many (badly-run) companies do that as well.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Rule of thumb you havent a breeze what you are talking about, I never heard such a load of nonsense before

Again you show you haven't a clue or you dont understand the IT market. Ireland has a huge shortage of people. Not just in high paying jobs but across the whole IT market

As someone with 15 years industry experience, worked in many organisations, hired more people than I can remember, interviewed many times that, mentored and managed countless people, highly respected amongst those who I have worked with and discussed this topic over and over again with a vast array of people working across the industry with a variety of experiences, I believe I have more than "a breeze".

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do you realize how many american companies are in Ireland? last count it was circa 1,000.

Which is my point. While Google, Facebook, Amazon and a few others are at the higher end of the salary spectrum, they are far from the normality of most "american" companies in terms of salaries.

beejee

kenmm wrote: »

I'd appreciate not being called out as a liar on a public forum, but I don't care that much tbh! I know for fact what people get paid and it is madness! 400 a day isn't a particularly good day rate in some fields and you don't need nearly as much experience as one would think..

I apologise for the insinuation, but I didn't directly mean YOU are a liar.

Mores that I've heard these tales multiple times. One time, in particular, I was in a room with a lot of people in IT, some students also.

Heard the usual "massive money, I heard of a bloke..." sort of thing. I interjected and asked all of them do they KNOW anyone making 100 and 200 grand, or was it all just hearsay.

Not one of them, a decent cross section I think, actually knew anyone in IT making a ton of money. All second and third hand rumours, basically.

I'm sceptical of this unicorn until I actually see it myself, or someone I believe can verify it.

Someone above gave a more believable rundown, that after 15+ years experience and yardda yardda, yeah it can be true.

I think it does a serious disservice to people, especially those considering going to college, to paint "easy money". Not YOU, just in general.

kenmm

beejee wrote: »

I think it does a serious disservice to people, especially those considering going to college, to paint "easy money". Not YOU, just in general.

ye and sorry - not actually saying its easy money.

But it is such a messed u p market and there is such a wide range.

I know 2-3 year "experienced devs on between 350 and 450 a day. I know 12 year experiences devs that are on not much more.. and a lot on way less!

I am trying to say its true and I know people that don't bullsh!t. The ones that don't seem to get paid as well are the ones that go to IT in general because they heard it was good $$... they guys making the money tend to be a combination of people interested in the field and good at negotiation...

lainey_d_123

kenmm wrote: »

IT contracting would easily take you over 100k as a salary. And plenty of savy junior devs would get decent rates in specialised fields..

Yes, and contracting pays well specifically because you need a specialised skillset and lots of experience, which are very rarely found in people who have just left college.

lainey_d_123

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Best you tell these software developers they should have a look around.....


Companies in Ireland are going around the World and paying for people to move to Ireland so they will work in software dev labs. Moving their families, paying for visas etc

Senior software dev people would be well over 100k


Even look on irishjobs and Limerick for software dev is 50-60k. Sligo is 35-45k. Only job in Dublin with wages listed is 65-75k



Go to the big American companies and you can add 20-30k



Anyone working for 35-40k as a software developer is getting the pi** taken out of them by their employer

How are you not getting that there's a massive difference between an experienced developer and someone right out of college? People pay the big bucks for people who can come in and be productive and add lots of value right away, not someone who has absolutely no real world work experience at all. A lot of the time for the juniors is spent on training and learning and development.

Nobody is paying 100K to move a 22-year-old junior developer to Ireland.

kenmm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yes, and contracting pays well specifically because you need a specialised skillset and lots of experience

That is often the misconception, yes (understandably).

I don't mean straight from college - these days 2-3 years will get you a few hundred a day as a specialist (and I agree this is not a specialist..)

The best ones are the big consultancy firms that will take grads on low salaries and bill clients for ~1k per day!

Shefwedfan

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

How are you not getting that there's a massive difference between an experienced developer and someone right out of college? People pay the big bucks for people who can come in and be productive and add lots of value right away, not someone who has absolutely no real world work experience at all. A lot of the time for the juniors is spent on training and learning and development.

Nobody is paying 100K to move a 22-year-old junior developer to Ireland.

Did you read the thread or just quote my post?

I was replying to a person who seemingly hires and fires, mentors and manages as well...excellent person, they said a person with 10-15 years experience is not even close to 100k

Then you quote me saying I am wrong but an experienced software developer would be getting paid well?

I never said someone straight out of college would be on 100k, I said they wouldn’t be on 35k which is what the other poster said....

So I’m confused, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

antimatterx

antimatterx wrote: »

I was watching the show on RTE "How to be good with money" and it struck me for the first time that some people are absolutely stupid with money.

How can people enjoy just throwing their money away? You spend a lot of time working hard to earn it, and you waste it.

I don't exactly make a lot of money (24, making 32K), but the first thing I do when I get paid is save as much as possible.

Because people like to live.

Shefwedfan

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yes, and contracting pays well specifically because you need a specialised skillset and lots of experience, which are very rarely found in people who have just left college.

I don’t think you understand the world of IT contracting

Montage of Feck

I've come to the conclusion that social
media in all it's forms in not good for your self esteem. I now feel like a dirty smelly and poor, political dissident degenerate after reading the threads on here.

Banana Republic.

Montage of Feck wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that social
media in all it's forms in not good for your self esteem. I now feel like a dirty smelly and poor, political dissident degenerate after reading the threads on here.

Pinch of salt with any of the opinions here, I could post that I save this and that and I'm unreal at saving plus I thought myself to budget perfectly and have a chunk of savings but I don't haha see how easy it is, don't fret

lainey_d_123

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you read the thread or just quote my post?

I was replying to a person who seemingly hires and fires, mentors and manages as well...excellent person, they said a person with 10-15 years experience is not even close to 100k

Then you quote me saying I am wrong but an experienced software developer would be getting paid well?

I never said someone straight out of college would be on 100k, I said they wouldn’t be on 35k which is what the other poster said....

So I’m confused, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

You seem to be constantly comparing apples and oranges.

There's nothing at all weird about a 35K salary for a junior developer who is still being trained and learning on the job. There's also nothing unusual at all for someone with 15 years' experience not to be hitting 100K. Do people make that? Yes, especially contracting. Is it typical? I wouldn't say so. I know lots of people on 70-80Kish who are happy enough with that because they don't want stress and overtime.

You're also forgetting that contracting pays well specifically because you don't get any of the employee benefits like pensions, sick pay, paid holidays, etc. They are also worth a lot in monetary terms.

Fireball81

Montage of Feck wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that social
media in all it's forms in not good for your self esteem. I now feel like a dirty smelly and poor, political dissident degenerate after reading the threads on here.

Just because it's on social media doesn't mean it's true...

Shefwedfan

My biggest problem is not saving, fairly decent with that

Its when I have any sort of money save I will splash out, so last month bought Solar PV and as soon as I have that done I am looking at the next "gadget" to buy.....:-)

antimatterx

I'm about 18 months working as a software developer and I'm on 32K. I reckon I'll be bumped up to ~40K in the summer otherwise I'll move and look for close to 50k.

HamSarris

antimatterx wrote: »

I'm about 18 months working as a software developer and I'm on 32K. I reckon I'll be bumped up to ~40K in the summer otherwise I'll move and look for close to 50k.

Make sure to quote the 140K Boards.ie average salary during your negotiation.

antimatterx

HamSarris wrote: »

Make sure to quote the 140K Boards.ie average salary during your negotiation.

I'll use it as a benchmark

Shefwedfan

HamSarris wrote: »

Make sure to quote the 140K Boards.ie average salary during your negotiation.

Who quoted 140k?

dotsman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you read the thread or just quote my post?

I was replying to a person who seemingly hires and fires, mentors and manages as well...excellent person, they said a person with 10-15 years experience is not even close to 100k

You don't seem to be following this thread and just arguing for the sake of it. This is the post where you started aggressively arguing with me.

dotsman wrote: »

Practically nobody "a few years experience in IT" is on a six figure salary. For most, they hit it around the 10-15 year mark. Some will get there earlier; a tiny few will get there after 5 years.

Ush1

kenmm wrote: »

You would think that, wouldn't you?

Yes I would. Being an IT contractor myself and having over 10 years experience in the industry including hiring people.

kenmm

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes I would. Being an IT contractor myself and having over 10 years experience in the industry including hiring people.

So then you know the vast amount of people who are complete blaggers, who know f-all but still get paid roughly the same as people with real experience then?

Elessar

dotsman wrote: »

Despite all the talk, there is no shortage of "IT people" in Ireland. There is, however, a massive shortage of companies that know how to attract, manage and retain IT staff.

Absolutely this.

I've heard it said before and I think it's also true: There's no shortage of skilled IT staff in Ireland. There is a shortage of skilled IT staff willing to work for the wages on offer.

I.e. not all positions offer good money. I was quite taken back by some offers I was approached with on LinkedIn the last while. 15-20k less than what I would consider the current range. Not all, but a decent amount. But I think you put it better.

As a matter of interest, what do you think is the biggest problem with attracting and retaining staff?

Ush1

kenmm wrote: »

So then you know the vast amount of people who are complete blaggers, who know f-all but still get paid roughly the same as people with real experience then?

There's no blagging. You come out of college you basically know nothing. You've literally no professional IT experience. What they gonna blah about, their final project?

Sounds great, have 100k.

dotsman

Elessar wrote: »

Absolutely this.

I've heard it said before and I think it's also true: There's no shortage of skilled IT staff in Ireland. There is a shortage of skilled IT staff willing to work for the wages on offer.

I.e. not all positions offer good money. I was quite taken back by some offers I was approached with on LinkedIn the last while. 15-20k less than what I would consider the current range. Not all, but a decent amount. But I think you put it better.

As a matter of interest, what do you think is the biggest problem with attracting and retaining staff?

All three are linked, attracting the right people and managing them well will make it very easy to retain people; likewise, managing and retaining good people will attract more, making recruitment easy.


In terms of what to improve:

Attracting:

• Avoid recruitment companies where possible. Similar to Estate Agents, in the 21st century, they, more often than not, end up adding layers of miscommunication and miss-selling, add tremendous cost and cause frustration to both sides.
• Look to your existing staff - they are your best recruiters. They will have worked with some great people over the years, and head-hunt from there when you can. If they can't convince those ex-colleagues to join your company - why not? That is surely some of the best feedback you can get as to what you need to do attract talent.
• Don't offer low salaries/benefits - you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. You also pay a lot more for your recruitment as you have to spend a long time sifting through a huge pile of "monkeys" to fin the "least-monkey".
• When writing a job description, be honest and try to describe the actual job, not trying to use as many generic "terms" as possible. The more BS on the job description, the more BS you can expect from those applying.
• Don't list a dozen different tech skills the person needs to have. Have a minimum of 1 or 2 core techs (Java/.NET etc) that are crucial. Every minimum requirement you add drastically reduces the pool of candidates, often excluding people who would be brilliant and leaving you with the bluffers and odd person who might specifically match that tech-stack, but is far from the best candidate. You can list everything else as a nice to have, but training will be offered along with the ability to learn on-the-job.
• Offer training on any gaps. Seriously. Make that clear on the job spec. The amount of talented people who have bypassed a job description because they fear they mightn't have enough experience/skills to live up to expectations is unreal. Meanwhile, the bluffers and egomaniacs have no problem applying (and subsequently hurting your org).
• Avoid code tests. They don't work. If you do want to have a test and a score, use a simple aptitude test etc to rate their intelligence/ability to problem solve/ ability to learn tech.
• State the salary range on the job offer, and be honest about it. If you are not stating it, the assumption is that it is low. Or, if you do actually end up offering the required salary, you are not stating it because it is far higher than existing staff, and will cause problems down the line (no pay increase as employee is already at the top of the pay scale, tension from other team members when they discover employee is being paid more etc).
• Offer flexible hours/work from home etc.
• CVs, Interviews/Tests all offer a very simple insight into how well the person will work out (and often misleading). A Strong endorsement from people who have worked with them well that you know (and trust) is far better.

Managing (some already covered above, but)

• Ensure frequent training and support.
• Ensure people are matched to project/roles that suit their abilities and excites them
• Remove any politicians, egomaniacs, a$$holes, bullies etc from the team immediately. It is crazy how one negative team-member can destroy the atmosphere for the whole team, especially if they are in a position of authority.
• Help poor performers, but also move them out if it is clear they will never be able to contribute in a meaningful way as they will, over time, also hurt the team.
• Don't expect people to work late/weekends regularly.
• Be as, if not more, flexible with your people than you expect from them. If people want to work from home, or different hours, accommodate as much as is feasible.
• Reward well and reward regularly. Even small, simple things like a random day off/half day, night out, or going out for lunch can go along way to keeping morale high.
• Promote a strong team-spirit. From buddies/mentors, to regular social nights, to ensuring quieter team-members feel included to just having a relaxed, fun environment.
• Do regular performance review/appraisal, but not the BS HR one that most companies go with. Keep it simple, unique and focused for the person on how they can realistically grow/improve in their role.
• Likewise, performance is not some SMART Objective that you wrote at the start of the year and forgot about. Performance should be simple - how valuable is this person to the team? How much do they contribute? How much do they help others? How much do they help the atmosphere on the team? How much to they help make the team. The real question is - if building a team to start a new project tomorrow, is this person someone you would absolutely need, very much want, happy to have, give or take, or refuse to have on the team. Because that is your real "ratings" just there.

Retaining

• If you are doing the above, then it should be very simple to retain!
• When reviewing pay/bonuses, don't give the absolute minimum you can get away with. Saving the company 2 grand right now, could cost you a skilled, experienced team-member in 6 months time, but you are now faced with the massive blow to the project, and hit with recruitment costs, and the new person likely costing as much, if not more.
• Ensure that people have clear career path to grow - where do they want to be in 1/3/5-years's time etc. Sometimes, the company simply doesn't have any roles in that area- and fine, be honest in the communications, and some people will always leave because they want to try something different. But if those roles are something org has or wants to have, have a clear path that this person grow in to them
• Unhappy staff breed unhappy staff. Don't have unhappy staff. While some people are natural complainers/miserable, most causes of unhappiness are down to bad management. Instead of denying or vaguely promising to address the issue next year etc, address it immediately.

The above is just a few quick things I would start exploring if I was the CEO/MD/Head of HR etc.

kenmm

Ush1 wrote: »

There's no blagging. You come out of college you basically know nothing. You've literally no professional IT experience. What they gonna blah about, their final project?

Sounds great, have 100k.

I am talking about the < 3 year experienced or worse the 10 year experienced that know feck all..

JustAThought

maybe people are shyte with money and spend like lunatics get into debt because they believe that someone is going to call them straight out of college, or next month, and offer them 100,000 euro to turn up for a day job.

Ush1

kenmm wrote: »

I am talking about the < 3 year experienced or worse the 10 year experienced that know feck all..

The post I responded to said you can get 100k starting coming out of college.

sligeach

Maybe if they fall for such blatant scams as this.

SPECIAL REPORT: Irish Are Listening To Businesswoman And Billionaire Mary Lou McDonald And They're Raking In Millions From Home

https://investing-review.com/en/os/24/

Just came across this now, and didn't know where exactly to put it. There is so much wrong with this. I'm sure Mary Lou McDonald wouldn't be happy about it either.

Potential-Monke

Elessar wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what do you think is the biggest problem with attracting and retaining staff?

I don't have as detailed an answer as above, but from my experience the problem with retaining is that a lot of management of IT don't have a clue about IT. My friend, who is a co-director of a small networking and security company (survey, install and maintain networks in businesses), and his boss is constantly selling packages that don't meet the requirements, simply because he doesn't know enough about it. My friend is always disagreeing with him as he does the follow up and install, and the price goes up for 100% due to his bosses lack of knowledge.

My friend also ends up having to explain why a task that the boss thought would take x hours takes more, due to unforeseen problems (usually as a result of a bad initial survey, again). I've seen it myself in other, lower end IT jobs. The people in charge don't know how IT works, or at least the specific part that employee is paid to cover, and as a result can't understand why it takes x amount of time, etc.

But as above, it's also because there are so many bluffers out there that nearly everyone has been stung by a 'specialist' who has somehow managed to blag their way into a high paid position without the skills or knowledge to complete the job.

veryangryman

I know this is borderline a bump but boy did that thread go Off Topic.

Eoin Magee has a new book out based on his show. Anyonoe read it, any decent tips that the average saver may have missed?