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GE Exit Poll 10 pm

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  • Options
    #5102
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    When does his big pension kick in?
    March?
    When he's 65 or whatever the age is then.


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    #5103
    efanton
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭efanton


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Unless FF completely refuse to speak to SF, how will SF be able to spin it being other peoples fault (as usual)?

    If SF show themselves as being incapable of making a deal with multiple parties on the left and the parties more in the centre then it is time for them to look in the mirror on their negotiation strategy.

    Their history of acting like kids and sitting out in the north and london won't help them

    Show me a combination that would work for SF to form a stable government that does not include FF or FG. The reality is it is a near impossible task.
    But yet SF have got of their arse and are even at this moment trying their best to actually get this done.

    What are FF and FG doing at this precise moment?
    Pretty much nothing except trying to pass to buck to everyone but themselves.

    Do you not see the hypocrisy of your stance.
    The reality is, unfortunately for the country, that it is up to Micheal Martin to finally make a decision or commitment. Until he finally declares his intention everyone else can talk all they like but none of them can actually do a thing.


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    #5104
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    efanton wrote: »
    Show me a combination that would work for SF to form a stable government that does not include FF or FG. The reality is it is a near impossible task.
    But yet SF have got of their arse and are even at this moment trying their best to actually get this done.

    What are FF and FG doing at this precise moment?
    Pretty much nothing except trying to pass to buck to everyone but themselves.

    Do you not see the hypocrisy of your stance.
    The reality is, unfortunately for the country, that it is up to Micheal Martin to finally make a decision or commitment. Until he finally declares his intention everyone else can talk all they like but none of them can actually do a thing.
    Both have said No, FG forcefully so and with FF it seems to depend who's talking.


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    #5105
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Unless FF completely refuse to speak to SF, how will SF be able to spin it being other peoples fault (as usual)?

    If SF show themselves as being incapable of making a deal with multiple parties on the left and the parties more in the centre then it is time for them to look in the mirror on their negotiation strategy.

    Their history of acting like kids and sitting out in the north and london won't help them

    To what end would these negotiations serve? SF + pan left is still 14 short. And yet it's people on the left who are often told the don't understand maths


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    #5106
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    SF are actively trying to form a government they even have a negotiation team according to the news,

    it's fairly obvious they can point at those that refused to talk as the cause of a new election.
    What part of the numbers don't exist on the left do you not understand? The parties in the centre FG/FF who have repeatedly stated they will not go in with SF.

    Actively trying to form a government and failing to even get 'the left' to join them, forget about FG/FF. How can you blame the centre parties when your 'vote left, transfer left' buddies can't even agree to share power with you

    It was all fun and games the last election but if this ends up going to another one now the 'parties of the left' will be made to put their cards on the table as to who they will be willing to go into government with.


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    #5107
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,373 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Positive noises by Shortall on RTE there. Says it's not about personalities or the past. Noted her priorities as building large volumes of affordable housing on state land and rent freezes. We're on. :)


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    #5108
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 18,020 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    The numbers just don't stack up for SF so it's upto FFG to come to the table and negotiate otherwise its back to the polls.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #5109
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    There plenty of room for the likes of SocDems, Labour and green to work together and even them and SF could find agreement on the big issues of the day. Health, housing and the likes

    From reports at least one of those parties is already out from doing a deal with SF and they haven't even started serious negotiations.


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    #5110
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not sure it would be wise to call out other parties, they stayed away from it this time.

    Political parties that go into hiding when it comes to government formation talks deserved to be called out.


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    #5111
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    The numbers just don't stack up for SF so it's upto FFG to come to the table and negotiate

    It is. But its at a different table, with each other. They will scoop up one of Lab/Grn/SD when they have the main deal done themselves, and the left illusion finally does its maths.


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    #5112
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    From reports at least one of those parties is already out from doing a deal with SF and they haven't even started serious negotiations.

    Labour are fighting for their existence. I can see them not existing in a few years.


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    #5113
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    is_that_so wrote: »
    FF it seems to depend who's talking.

    So therefore the jury is still out with them, surely?


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    #5114
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,607 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Could SF and the Green's come to an agreement tough especially on issues regarding carbon taxes, electric cars charging points, etc.


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    #5115
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    efanton wrote: »
    Show me a combination that would work for SF to form a stable government that does not include FF or FG. The reality is it is a near impossible task.
    But yet SF have got of their arse and are even at this moment trying their best to actually get this done.

    They've been trying to talk to 'parties of change' and some of their left buddies want nothing to do with them already.
    What are FF and FG doing at this precise moment?
    Pretty much nothing except trying to pass to buck to everyone but themselves.
    Do you not see the hypocrisy of your stance.

    What, like SF did the last election when they refused to talk to anyone? Did that put you off them for good or does hypocrisy only go one way?
    The reality is, unfortunately for the country, that it is up to Micheal Martin to finally make a decision or commitment. Until he finally declares his intention everyone else can talk all they like but none of them can actually do a thing.

    My exact point if you actually read my OP. I caveated that for SF to be unable to blame others, FF would have to talk to them. If FF talks to no one then they'll be the easy scapegoats


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    #5116
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Political parties that go into hiding when it comes to government formation talks deserved to be called out.
    They have a very fundamental issue with SF and some of us say OK and move on. TBH I can't see where you're going at all apart from just calling people out. The numbers are not good for even negotiated outcomes and they are very poor for forced ones between parties people seemed to want to kick out. I think FG and eventually FF will take the hit for any accusations over this.


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    #5117
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They have a very fundamental issue with SF and some of us say OK and move on. TBH I can't see where you're going at all apart from just calling people out. The numbers are not good for even negotiated outcomes and they are very poor for forced ones between parties people seemed to want to kick out. I think FG and eventually FF will take the hit for any accusations over this.

    Why should FF and FG take any hit ? They just form a coalition and bring the Greens along for the ride. Its so simple really.


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    #5118
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    is_that_so wrote: »
    When he's 65 or whatever the age is then.

    I meant it increases and he's due a large bump shortly, if still in place right?


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    #5119
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Labour are fighting for their existence. I can see them not existing in a few years.

    As is the nature for most left parties, the turnover is incredible.


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    #5120
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They have a very fundamental issue with SF and some of us say OK and move on. TBH I can't see where you're going at all apart from just calling people out. The numbers are not good for even negotiated outcomes and they are very poor for forced ones between parties people seemed to want to kick out. I think FG and eventually FF will take the hit for any accusations over this.

    It's quite simple, FF are emphatic that they will not serve with SF even if a few of their TD's are off script. Ciaran Canon of FG has been out today saying FF/FG/Greens will have to do a deal or its back to the people. The rest of the party he is a member of are staying quiet but it won't be an option for any party for long.


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    #5121
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,607 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Positive noises by Shortall on RTE there. Says it's not about personalities or the past. Noted her priorities as building large volumes of affordable housing on state land and rent freezes. We're on. :)

    Houses valued at about €200,000. Now I know some of the Sinn Fein voters will be delighted with that but I know a lot who wouldn't.


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    #5122
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    So therefore the jury is still out with them, surely?
    I don't think so but there doesn't seem to be a completely definitive answer from that quarter yet. Maybe after their meeting this week.


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    #5123
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Why should FF and FG take any hit ? They just form a coalition and bring the Greens along for the ride. Its so simple really.

    Not yet clear if Micheal Martin would prefer that over a deal with SF


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    #5124
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's quite simple, FF are emphatic that they will not serve with SF even if a few of their TD's are off script. Ciaran Canon of FG has been out today saying FF/FG/Greens will have to do a deal or its back to the people. The rest of the party he is a member of are staying quiet but it won't be an option for any party for long.

    Its a case of those who wont be able to get what they want making all the noise, struggling to accept the reality, and trying to show that they are trying against the odds.
    And those who know they have it in the bag not needing to make noise for the sake of it, and being involved instead in lower key, real business of forming a government.


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    #5125
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    As is the nature for most left parties, the turnover is incredible.

    Labour are the oldest party in the state. This is a fairly ridiculous comment


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    #5126
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's quite simple, FF are emphatic that they will not serve with SF even if a few of their TD's are off script. Ciaran Canon of FG has been out today saying FF/FG/Greens will have to do a deal or its back to the people. The rest of the party he is a member of are staying quiet but it won't be an option for any party for long.
    He's not wrong. Both FF & FG are hardening against that coalition idea and who's to say the Greens will get on board. I think their attitude now is, if there is another election so be it. They'll take it as it comes.


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    #5127
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's quite simple, FF are emphatic that they will not serve with SF even if a few of their TD's are off script.

    Including that Martin guy from Cork, but what does he count for?


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    #5128
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Why should FF and FG take any hit ? They just form a coalition and bring the Greens along for the ride. Its so simple really.

    The problem for FF and FG though is they give the position of largest opposition party to SF and allow them to capitalise on any potential screwups by the government, just like the main party of opposition used to do in times past.


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    #5129
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Not yet clear if Micheal Martin would prefer that over a deal with SF

    Well thats as deluded as I have read. Have you read his statements on the topic?


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    #5130
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Well thats as deluded as I have read. Have you read his statements on the topic?

    Last I've heard from him were his evasive interviews on Sunday. Has he clarified his position since then?


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    #5131
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    The problem for FF and FG though is they give the position of largest opposition party to SF and allow them to capitalise on any potential screwups by the government, just like the main party of opposition used to do in times past.

    Whats the difference, let SF in this time, because if we dont, they'll get in the next time ? Keep them out this time for starters - 5 years is a long time in politics, and SF getting in next time is a possibility, not a certainty.


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